What is the best possible XI built around any GOAT?

Physiocrat

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Seeing that the top 10 player thread has been going again it reminded me of this idea of mine - one way to determine the GOAT would be which GOAT would have the best side if it catered to his exact requirements in every way. Now clearly one argument in favour of Maradona is that he elevates lesser players but I thought this might be an interesting exercise - at another time we could do a GOAT built around players who never won a draft.

I'll start with a Messi XI (whether this is the best overall as I need to think about other players more first but this is still good IMO)

Went more direct than Barca 11 as I don't think there are any wide forwards with the technical quality who are that good for super possession play.

.....Boniek.....Messi.....Gullit
............Charlton.....Modric....
.....................Voronin...........
Maldini..Baresi...Thuram..D.Alves
......................Neuer..........

Sjor can have VVD for Baresi if he likes.
 
I think a Messi XI is largely self-selecting. It would be insane to pass on Neymar, for instance -- players of that calibre meshing that naturally are rare in their own right, but when you factor in Neymar's work rate and lack of (on-field) ego, he becomes impossible to ignore:

Neuer
Alves
Beckenbauer (unless that's breaking some unspoken rule)
Desailly/Kohler
Maldini (by default, but ultimately it's fairly difficult to go wrong here. Ideally I'd probably favor someone slightly more attacking, provided they were still quick enough to sweep up when required)
Rijkaard (alterantively Davids or Redondo -- and yes, I think all three were defensive enough to meet this team's needs)
Xavi
Iniesta
Messi
Neymar
Van Basten (I'd been toying with picking Drogba - for variety, as much as anything, and because he was probably the best target man I've seen - but once you go that route, it's fairly obvious who the proper pick should be)
 
for messi you just add the actual defenders into tiki taka team and you golden

neuer
alves kohler kaiser maldini
bus
xavi iniesta
stoichkov messi villa
 
Šjor Bepo said:
for messi you just add the actual defenders into tiki taka team and you golden

neuer
alves kohler kaiser maldini
bus
xavi iniesta
stoichkov messi villa
Click to expand...
Wasn't convinced Stoichkov is suitable for a full on tiki taka style

Anyway, can this side be beaten by any other GOAT side?

I'm not convinced Der Kaiser is ideal for this setup as he would be restricted going forward and he really wants to be RCB especially as he was quite one footed
 
Here's a Der Kaiser side - this gives him freedom to get forward or stay back as he sees fit.


......Dinho....G.Muller....Gullit
............Charlton...Modric...
...................Voronin............
Maldini...Kohler...Der Kaiser...J.Zanetti
....................Neuer.....................

Here's a Maradona XI.

...................Shevchenko...............
Boniek.........Maradona......Gullit.......
...............Redondo.....Tigana...........
Marcelo....Kohler....Baresi....J.Zanetti
............................Neuer.......
 
Physiocrat said:
Wasn't convinced Stoichkov is suitable for a full on tiki taka style

Anyway, can this side be beaten by any other GOAT side?

I'm not convinced Der Kaiser is ideal for this setup as he would be restricted going forward and he really wants to be RCB especially as he was quite one footed
Click to expand...
kaiser would be immense in tiki taka, as for the side think is nonsense.
But thinking about it i would probably use Lahm or Djalma instead of Alves.
 
Šjor Bepo said:
kaiser would be immense in tiki taka, as for the side think is nonsense.
But thinking about it i would probably use Lahm or Djalma instead of Alves.
Click to expand...
Lahm or Djalma make sense with Der Kasier but he from memory he much preferred the right side to the left - it's not just the footedness
 
Physiocrat said:
Wasn't convinced Stoichkov is suitable for a full on tiki taka style

Anyway, can this side be beaten by any other GOAT side?

I'm not convinced Der Kaiser is ideal for this setup as he would be restricted going forward and he really wants to be RCB especially as he was quite one footed
Click to expand...
Beckenbauer’s “one-footedness” isn’t an issue when he’s so natural at using the outside of his foot for the angles that are usually reserved for the left foot.
 
harms said:
Beckenbauer’s “one-footedness” isn’t an issue when he’s so natural at using the outside of his foot for the angles that are usually reserved for the left foot.
Click to expand...
Didn't he prefer the centre right part of the pitch though too,? From memory he did but I could be wrong
 
Physiocrat said:
Didn't he prefer the centre right part of the pitch though too,? From memory he did but I could be wrong
Click to expand...
Not really, at least not from my recollection and I've seen a lot of him. He never was limited by anything, voluntarily or not. And would often start on the left side of a centre back partnership or move to the left side of the pitch during the play if the situation required. This isn't a Passarella situation when a player has a clear preference for one channel and if you put him on the right, he loses that additional oomph.



Especially in a simplified perception of the drafts we'd naturally put him on the right side of Breitner - Schwarzenbeck - Beckenbauer - Vogts, for example, simply because of the balance but in reality even that particular backline was way more fluid (not to mention that there could've been games where Vogts would start on the left and Breitner on the right).
 
Physiocrat said:
Wasn't convinced Stoichkov is suitable for a full on tiki taka style

Anyway, can this side be beaten by any other GOAT side?

I'm not convinced Der Kaiser is ideal for this setup as he would be restricted going forward and he really wants to be RCB especially as he was quite one footed
Click to expand...
Stoichkov is pretty fine in a possession type. Yes he's natural in more counter attacking setups for the national team but considering Pedro was mostly used in that formation can't see why Stoichkov won't work. He has the off ball movement which would be needed (not all have to be recycling possession you still need players that are able to break the lines and move off the ball) and also has the one touch play that allows the system to tick. He also can press high and keep the pressure on the opposition defence.
 
Enigma_87 said:
Stoichkov is pretty fine in a possession type. Yes he's natural in more counter attacking setups for the national team but considering Pedro was mostly used in that formation can't see why Stoichkov won't work. He has the off ball movement which would be needed (not all have to be recycling possession you still need players that are able to break the lines and move off the ball) and also has the one touch play that allows the system to tick. He also can press high and keep the pressure on the opposition defence.
Click to expand...


Fair enough. Which side built around a GOAT would be the best?
 
Physiocrat said:
Fair enough. Which side built around a GOAT would be the best?
Click to expand...
TBH I see three clear GOAT candidates (not much has changed over the last 10-20 years with the inclusion of Messi of course).

The tiki taka by no means is perfect so it can be beaten. We've seen Real being hugely successful without heavy possession based system like Barca, whilst the former have been really mesmerizing to watch but still they could be beaten like Chelsea, Inter, Bayern etc beating them playing counter attacking football.

Messi, Xaviesta effect clearly can win any game but it isn't really unbeatable. Pele's Santos were beating teams all over the world and he did have a excellent supporting cast so it begs the question how will they fare against modern teams and football but I think they can adjust. Maradona didn't have all time greats next to him, some excellent players like Careca, Ferrara, Alemao, Passarella, Ruggeri but still far from what the others two had in terms of positional goats and also hoarding some of the best talent at the time.

TO me Messi is pretty straightforward:

Neuer

Dani Alves (you have to have him, his understanding with Xavi and Messi himself was nothing alike)
Beckenbauer (I mean he'd be replacing the Spanish Beckenbauer ) - share the same thoughts he won't have issue regardless of whether it's LCB or RCB
Thuram
Maldini - you to have a bit more solidity at the back with the more attacking Dani Alves

Rodri - to me he's better than Busquets whilst also preserving the same style
Xavi
Iniesta

Gullit
Messi
Stoichkov

That's probably the best possible team around him IMO.

For Pele if we can't use the same players..
Buffon

Facchetti
Figueroa
Nesta
Carlos Alberto

Desailly
Falcao
Pele as (AM/#10)

Nedved
MvB
Garrincha

of course Garrincha is a must as they are hugely successful together. I have Nedved as a balance on the left and MvB is the best possible partner for him IMO. Pele to me is at the heart of things who moves between the lines (attack/midfield). Went with sort of 4-3-3, as against modern teams I'm not sure if 4-4-2 with Garrincha at RW will work well balance wise as you would need some defensive input whilst in 4-3-3 he will be in a free role.

and then you have Maradona:

Yashin

Zanetti
Kohler
Passarella
Brehme

Davids
Voronin
Keane

Maradona

Fenomeno
Muller / Kalle

Counter attacking setup - a DM able to drop back to form back three or keep tight if Passarella goes forward, two attacking full backs to stretch the play, two defensive B2B on either side to help in transition and two highly mobile forwards that can get at the end of his passes, stretch play and also give him some freedom to operate between the lines engaging the CB's and the opposition DM.
Formation is 4-3-2-1 you can easily transform to 3-5-2 or 5-3-2 which suits Maradona.

Honestly with super teams like that it's really a tossup who will win each game. You can make a case for pretty much everyone.
 
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