The league will be created to stop the Newcastles of though.
What now for FFP? (and UEFA)
- Thread starter horsechoker
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Sack CAS, sell UEFA (oh wait, they're already sold)
So you want clubs to spend money that they don't have and end up like Portsmouth? Seems a bonkers idea to me.
Why is this a sentence I'm seeing all over the place. No a breakaway superleague is not inevitable.
Just scrap it. FFP was always a stupid idea. If rich people want to spend money on football, fine, let's just get on with it.
If you were United/Liverpool/Arsenal watching this, you would surely now be tempted to move away from the collectively-negotiated TV rights deal, in favour of earning much more with your own one.
If City are going to be able to artificially inflate the value of their sponsorship deals with impunity, the big clubs can't really continue to give a massive slice of their broadcast revenues away to the likes of Norwich City.
If City are going to be able to artificially inflate the value of their sponsorship deals with impunity, the big clubs can't really continue to give a massive slice of their broadcast revenues away to the likes of Norwich City.
Exactly. PSG wrecked the transfer market for everyone. Now you have average players going to astronomic fees.
Yes let's have more Málaga FC's in the world.
The FFP is clearly working. Let's for one minute ignore the obvious fraud appening in PSG and Manchester City. The FFP is there to help clubs avoid overspending.
There are hundreds more clubs in the football world that comply with FFP and post healthy financial records because they are not overinvesting. Liverpool is one club that has a lot ot thank FFP for. It helped stabilize the club and get them to where they are today.
For every Manchester City there leagues of clubs that adhere to these regulations and avoid the pitfalls of Leeds, Portsmouth, Rangers, Bolton, Málaga, etc etc.
This hangup that football is somehow only affected by one club's gross negligence of financial fair play is not rooted in reality. They're an outlier and long may they remain one.
This financial doping by shitty and the lengths they went to conceal it, just strengthens the idea behind formation of a super league. UEFA suspected this, and finally decided to match the punishment befitting the crime, but with CAS decision that's gone now. Any lingering thoughts that money cannot be leveraged against rightfull punishment is out the window, there is nothing left!
It's not inevitable because the Premier League clubs are content with their TV income, it's clubs like Juve that are agitating for a breakaway.
However I can see the UCL revamping in the coming years to resist a breakaway push.
This basically. The story of FFP is about giant clubs suddenly finding themselves second in the pecking order and pulling all the strings possible to keep the status quo. All the clubs mentioned are not interested in fair competitions. FFP was always a sting operation by the established clubs.
That's fine if it is a rich person, but this is rich countries spending money to make themselves look good in the world eyes while carrying out human rights atrocities in their own country. That is all it's about, not the football. It is one big PR exercise.
Except for the part where PSG didn't give Barcelona £200million or how much it was upfront. The lump sums are structured over years and is filed into accounting over a time period of several years. Within that time period a club can sell players to offset any FFP breach and so forth. It gets relatively complicated but that is the simplified version.
I don't have any problems with the sum in a vacuum, but more the way the finance were obtained to begin with.
Who would watch a super league? Clubs like Bayern and Juventus are wrong if they think they can actually participate in a Super League and win financially. Majority of people would still rather watch Bundesliga and Serie A.
I keep hearing about this super league thing but what makes you think City or other mega rich clubs wouldn't be there? I bet they would.
Just watch out now for one of Cities owners companies to become one of the main champions league sponsors... then shortly after them winning the champions league due to some interesting refereeing decisions *coughs "gazprom" then it will all be fine and dandy again!
UEFA have fecked this so badly. The had to get this one right, it had to be watertight before they pulled the trigger. They’ve lost all credibility now.
This is their 2nd time. They were hit with a £49m fine in 2014.
I guess third time's the charm. But probably not.
How is it helping football if two clubs are able to spend without following the rules while everyone else is being forced to constrain themselves?
I liked FFP because of the reason you stated but when it is being taken advantage off by bigger clubs to the point of not restricting them at all, then what's the point?
They’ll probably introduce a spending cap now so the biggest clubs can compete with City and PSG as they’re basically free to do whatever the feck they want again. While Barcelona can’t find a nickel. That’s not going to go on for too much longer.
The football markets are worth too much for this to ever happen. Hundreds of thousands of jobs all over Europe, the prospect of leagues being distmantled, absolute wild public relations disasters, just to name a few obstacles.
It's not as straightforward as simply going where the money is. The clubs already have a league like this as you point out and that is the Champions League. The only prospective change here is wrap the CL into a normal series and crown a winner at the end of it, negating the cup play.
I don't see that happening in this generation at all.
A breakaway league that excludes bent clubs like City would be nice. I still don't accept them as a rival, that's not what I care about, I would just like honest competitions with honest clubs taking part.
It's not the money, it's the flouting of rules and the money facilitating that flouting that is sickening. They must be laughing their tits off at UEFA.
It's time for the Big clubs, the ones that would be missed, to stand up and really put some feckin' pressure on UEFA now.
It's not the money, it's the flouting of rules and the money facilitating that flouting that is sickening. They must be laughing their tits off at UEFA.
It's time for the Big clubs, the ones that would be missed, to stand up and really put some feckin' pressure on UEFA now.
FFP was never a great concept because it was blatantly protecting the interests of the big old clubs like Bayern, Real, United etc. However, the pathetic construct of City and PSG are definitely not the answer to this imbalance like their fans are claiming. The answer to an elitist system can not be to hope that a billionaire or a state buy a club as a plaything, that sort of alternative concept of fairness was always ludicrous.
Best way forward would be a Europe wide (hard) salary cap that stops big clubs from simply stacking top players with massive wages and forces them to balance things out. The surplus they`d have would be splashed on infrastructure and youth academy, so their would still be an imbalance and City would be in a better position than lets say Southampton. But the wealth gaps would sort of be narrowed a bit Europe wide, so at least one step forward.
One specific note on FFP with regards to the City verdict. If FFP would have to succeed the 5 year period on time-barred needs to change, that way - like City did - invites clubs to commit murder and just drag things out buy obstructing etc. 5 years is a damn short period in legal terms.
Best way forward would be a Europe wide (hard) salary cap that stops big clubs from simply stacking top players with massive wages and forces them to balance things out. The surplus they`d have would be splashed on infrastructure and youth academy, so their would still be an imbalance and City would be in a better position than lets say Southampton. But the wealth gaps would sort of be narrowed a bit Europe wide, so at least one step forward.
One specific note on FFP with regards to the City verdict. If FFP would have to succeed the 5 year period on time-barred needs to change, that way - like City did - invites clubs to commit murder and just drag things out buy obstructing etc. 5 years is a damn short period in legal terms.
I don’t know to be honest. I don’t believe that we’re close to getting a super league, especially with the current economic climate. But people would watch it seeing as we are just too invested in football to stop.
The legal framework of the FFP is made by men and it will be revised by men. No legal frameworks are perfect and there are workarounds for most of it. Like any rulebook, the FFP is constantly evolving and will undoubtedly see revisions following this debacle.
What's bonkers to me is the idea that two clubs can get away with manipulating their value and therefore the leagues they are in.
This isn't fair at all, atleast with removing it you won't have superclubs having an unfair advantage to spend without consequence over other clubs. Other clubs can get rich owners as well.
Newcastle EPL champions 22/23
Well..... uefa have set a precedent now. Let’s watch this space. If oil clubs are are allowed to outcompete every other non oil club then football will be become even more stagnant and devoid of life than it’s already becoming. The actual big clubs in England- United, Liverpool, Arsenal,Spurs ect cpuld soon be on the outside looking in- certainly in the respect of signing top talent around the world. Where they will compete though is the bringing through of youth into first teams.
Except of course in Germany.
Don’t think it will make much difference from here on out. Personally think PSG will continue to struggle in champions league as French football isn’t strong enough and players may start to leave as a result.
FFP is dodgy ground, there isn’t anything wrong with outside investors. Having said that, calling Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudis merely outside investors/billionaires is disingenuous to the likes of Walker, Leicester’s owners and Abramovich. They are more than billionaires, they are states who’s money and political power can potentially create far too much influence over the sport, on top of that the political issues/human rights issues in their countries leave them with no place in football and are most certainly not a lesser evil to the status quo.
FFP is dodgy ground, there isn’t anything wrong with outside investors. Having said that, calling Abu Dhabi, Qatar and Saudis merely outside investors/billionaires is disingenuous to the likes of Walker, Leicester’s owners and Abramovich. They are more than billionaires, they are states who’s money and political power can potentially create far too much influence over the sport, on top of that the political issues/human rights issues in their countries leave them with no place in football and are most certainly not a lesser evil to the status quo.
Today has the potential to bring in and establish a new era of football. Whilst there have been new-money Superclubs flittering around the established European elites, they were always seen to be the anomalies. The annoying kids at school who show off new toys and gadgets without any discernible skills or popularity.
This decision vindicates the oil-state owners and their move to blow competition out of the water through massive spending. It's hard to see how football clubs will be able to develop and compete at the top level without similar level investments.
For the likes of RB Leipzig, PSG and obviously City this is a great day. For mid-sized but established top-league clubs there are positives as they have all become very interesting to potential investors.
For the likes of Bayern, Barca, Real, Juve... well, this couldn't be worse as it massively undermines their stature which is largely based on reputation, standing and prestige. Their standing also detracts them from investors as they are less malleable in a cultural sense and expensive investment options.
Jury is out on how this effects us and Liverpool. Arsenal have already been sunk by the big money clubs, and Spurs are in a strange transitional period. The wealth/popularity of the EPL, strong marketability and global standing of United may be enough to ensure we stay competitive. But if the Glazers want us to offset any Covid financial hits, we could fall away quickly.
This has marked a real shift in European football, and whilst fans of oil money-backed clubs will no doubt celebrate today's decision, I'm not sure if there are any winners other than these clubs' owners tomorrow. Strange times.
This decision vindicates the oil-state owners and their move to blow competition out of the water through massive spending. It's hard to see how football clubs will be able to develop and compete at the top level without similar level investments.
For the likes of RB Leipzig, PSG and obviously City this is a great day. For mid-sized but established top-league clubs there are positives as they have all become very interesting to potential investors.
For the likes of Bayern, Barca, Real, Juve... well, this couldn't be worse as it massively undermines their stature which is largely based on reputation, standing and prestige. Their standing also detracts them from investors as they are less malleable in a cultural sense and expensive investment options.
Jury is out on how this effects us and Liverpool. Arsenal have already been sunk by the big money clubs, and Spurs are in a strange transitional period. The wealth/popularity of the EPL, strong marketability and global standing of United may be enough to ensure we stay competitive. But if the Glazers want us to offset any Covid financial hits, we could fall away quickly.
This has marked a real shift in European football, and whilst fans of oil money-backed clubs will no doubt celebrate today's decision, I'm not sure if there are any winners other than these clubs' owners tomorrow. Strange times.
Legacy League coming up..
FFP is dead at the top level. State owned clubs will start popping up more and more as soft power exercises for their regimes. Look for Oman and Azerbaijan to soon join the party.
hence the outcome today, 2014 was over 5 years ago, this is because UEFA and loads of 'historic' clubs wanted them to have a second bit of the cherry with the Der Spiegel leaks and it failed
one of the riches Azergaijanies owns Lens I think
FFP was full of loopholes. Its only helped preserve the status quo, and making sure the elites remain elites clubs.
The only solution is wage bill/cap on playing staff members
The only solution is wage bill/cap on playing staff members
Its just a reflection of the rest of the economy. Are we really suprised that football is just as corrupt as all other institutions, political and otherwise? No one gives sht though. With the background of fighting for black lives matter we turn our heads to the Saudis taking over Newcastle with a background of mass human rights violations including womans rights, war crimes, beheadings and all the rest of it.
Yes, this. It's clear that FFP in its current form was never about protecting clubs from doing a Portsmouth: it was designed to serve the interests of the traditional elite. It seems to be failing even at that which is a small mercy at least.
A salary cap only benefits the owners. How do you prevent players choosing clubs based on wages? By putting a limit on wages? Then the players suffer and the owners get all the profit.
It would be great if youth football gets more money, but again, it's still bad for the players.
While I doubt they would be left out, they really don't have much of a footballing standing. They have feck all fans between them and they would quickly be forgotten about if every other big team was in an alternative competition, not to mention the fact the best players would leave as they would want to compete against the best.