What to do with Anthony Martial?

[Mainoldo]

In the last match, Smalling, Jones and Toby were all the pitch and it was evident for our DoF, Woodward, to see that Toby was better than Smalling and several levels above P.Jones, who IMO is a Championship level defender.
Jose doesn't need to keep showing Woodward, that he over-estimated our current set of CBs.
Make no mistake, Toby would've been our best CB, had he joined in the Summer.

Woody should have told him in dumb CEO terms. Whatever you did last season to make the defence work. Do it again.

 

[UncleBob]

Woody should have told him in dumb CEO terms. Whatever you did last season to make the defence work. Do it again.

But it didn't work ?

 

[Mainoldo]

But it didn't work ?

It clearly did we got 81 points with average attacking numbers. I’m going to guess we didn’t conced much.

 

[UncleBob]

It clearly did we got 81 points with average attacking numbers. I’m going to guess we didn’t conced much.

David De Gea.

If you look at our defensive stats, apart from just looking at goals against, they aren't very good at all.

 

[Revan]

David De Gea.

If you look at our defensive stats, apart from just looking at goals against, they aren't very good at all.

Did we sell him? Last I checked he is still here.

But yeah, Mourinho has to prove to Woody that 'hey, I don't have CBs, I even have to play Herrera there'.

 

[fallengt]

I can see Mourinho changing the backline again against Burnley. He is trying to prove a point to Woodward and the board that we need CB's and it will not do the club /team any good.

Woodward didn't want to buy Toby, I might not agree with him but does it have anything to do with Martial? We don't need to sell Martial to buy CB...
Unless Jose was planning for 3-5-2 with Sanchez and Lukaku upfront, Lingard & Rasford as backup then okay it might make sense that he didn't want to have too many attackers but we don't know that.

 

[GloryHunter07]

Nah. If Martial signs the new contract, essentially, I see three options this going on:

- Mourinho plays him and eventually he rediscovers his form. Win-win for everyone.
- Mourinho doesn't play him and then we sell Martial next summer for more money than in the scenario when he has just 1 year on his contract.
- Mourinho is sacked and then Martial plays under some other manager.

All three are better than having him going into his last year of his contract.

Hard to argue with any of that.

 

[Mainoldo]

David De Gea.

If you look at our defensive stats, apart from just looking at goals against, they aren't very good at all.

Well he can do it again too! You can say what you like it’s a no go arguement. What he should have done was told Marcus Rojo, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones even Eric Bailly if he believed so.. there services are no longer required. But he didn’t do that did he.

 

[Smores]

Offensive? Get a grip. You already said it yourself, he gets off lighter because he's an academy product. Always happens on this forum. People are still pining for Jonny Evans ffs. Rashford may work harder but he's also cost us with his greed on a few occasions. If situations were reversed, that would just be more ammo to abuse Martial with about his poor attitude. Posters would be talking nonsense about him believing he's bigger than the club.

Look at this quote from the Rashford thread, from a poster who's pretty vocal in his criticisms of Martial:



He thinks it's weird to criticise Rashford as he's from the academy yet he's one of the most vocal critics of Martial on this board. And I guarantee you there's plenty of posters who think in the same way.

Oh and just to be clear, I rate Rashford highly and think he deserves time to improve. I just wish people would afford Martial the same privileges.

To be honest i think i misread partly

I thought he was arguing that it's down to nationality and academy but i think it was actually more the latter.

 

[MUFC OK]

Put him on a footie pitch.

 

[Smores]

Did we sell him? Last I checked he is still here.

But yeah, Mourinho has to prove to Woody that 'hey, I don't have CBs, I even have to play Herrera there'.

In regards to your second point have you not considered he just thought it was a terrible idea to put Bailey and Lindeloff back out on the pitch so soon given their nerves? Certainly holds weight and happens fairly often when players have a mare.

 

[Buster15]

Did we sell him? Last I checked he is still here.

But yeah, Mourinho has to prove to Woody that 'hey, I don't have CBs, I even have to play Herrera there'.

I thought this was supposed to be about Martial....
He may be a talented young player but in truth there are loads of them who simply struggle to make it at MU.
It may well be 'self doubt' as opposed to not being motivated. You only have to look at his face when he gets onto the pitch. He looks really nervous as if he doesn't trust his own abilities and he hardly speaks. This is different to Fellani who despite his lower level of ability runs onto the pitch giving orders to others and looks far more confident.

There is a good player in there, the challenge is how to get him to believe in himself.

 

[Revan]

In regards to your second point have you not considered he just thought it was a terrible idea to put Bailey and Lindeloff back out on the pitch so soon given their nerves? Certainly holds weight and happens fairly often when players have a mare.

I don't know how playing Herrera who has never played there, and is a very undisciplined players was a better idea though.

 

[Smores]

I don't know how playing Herrera who has never played there, and is a very undisciplined players was a better idea though.

Yeah Matic would have made more sense in my view or Darmian even.

You say he's undisciplined and positionally he can be but like Fellaini i think he's a player that does very well following exact instructions. I'm sure Jose recognises it was a mistake to assume that would translate in a big game.

I certainly don't think the reasoning was to make a point though

 

[UncleBob]

Well he can do it again too! You can say what you like it’s a no go arguement. What he should have done was told Marcus Rojo, Chris Smalling and Phil Jones even Eric Bailly if he believed so.. there services are no longer required. But he didn’t do that did he.

Whats the no go argument ? I simply pointed out that the defence wasn't good last season, it was quite poor compared to the other top teams, and that the only reason our goals against stats are good is because De Gea made an insane amount of saves.

 

[Mainoldo]

Whats the no go argument ? I simply pointed out that the defence wasn't good last season, it was quite poor compared to the other top teams, and that the only reason our goals against stats are good is because De Gea made an insane amount of saves.

Saves meaning he prevented a goal? Is that not the main aim? If you spend the majority of the time without the ball your likely to be defending meaning you will have a lot more shots against you. We still did our job and not concede much.

 

[UncleBob]

Saves meaning he prevented a goal? Is that not the main aim? If you spend the majority of the time without the ball your likely to be defending meaning you will have a lot more shots against you. We still did our job and not concede much.

No idea what you're on about here.

So far this goes like this:

You make a claim that Jose needs to make the defence work again, like last season.

I point out it didn't work, and that the only reason for our low amount of goals against is because De Gea made an insane amount of quality saves

You say that it's the main aim of the goalkeeper.

Which isn't the point, nobody is going to argue that.

The point is that the defence didn't work last season, not very well atleast, especially not compared to the other top clubs.

We had more shots against us from inside the box (229) than from outside the box (172), we had 20 shots against from inside the 5 yard line. A total expected goals against us which was 43,54. Roughly twice as many (shots against from inside the box, outside, inside 5 yard line, and expected goals) as Manchester City.

If our defence was solid, given the defensive way we play, you'd expect a large amount of shots but a small expected goals against as most shots would be long range attempts as the opposition shouldn't be able to break us down.

De Geas stats from last season, in terms of saving shots with a high expected goal number, was somewhat insane. Not that there's anything wrong with having a world class goalkeeper, but there's clearly something wrong with how we play given the amount of saves De Gea has to make.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Martial: CF
Lukaku: CB
Lindeloff: water boy

 

[Mainoldo]

No idea what you're on about here.

So far this goes like this:

You make a claim that Jose needs to make the defence work again, like last season.

I point out it didn't work, and that the only reason for our low amount of goals against is because De Gea made an insane amount of quality saves

You say that it's the main aim of the goalkeeper.

Which isn't the point, nobody is going to argue that.

The point is that the defence didn't work last season, not very well atleast, especially not compared to the other top clubs.

We had more shots against us from inside the box (229) than from outside the box (172), we had 20 shots against from inside the 5 yard line. A total expected goals against us which was 43,54. Roughly twice as many (shots against from inside the box, outside, inside 5 yard line, and expected goals) as Manchester City.

If our defence was solid, given the defensive way we play, you'd expect a large amount of shots but a small expected goals against as most shots would be long range attempts as the opposition shouldn't be able to break us down.

De Geas stats from last season, in terms of saving shots with a high expected goal number, was somewhat insane. Not that there's anything wrong with having a world class goalkeeper, but there's clearly something wrong with how we play given the amount of saves De Gea has to make.

Simple answer play possession football. We had a good defence under LVG too and that’s mainly because we kept the ball. Yes our defence can improve but so could have Man City’s however it’s not the reason why we play crap and it’s not the reason for us being 20 points behind City.