Where does Carrick go in terms of all time greats for United?

Cooksen

The Millennium Falcao
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Most of us are aware of the impact that carrick has had on our football club in the last few seasons and how good of a player he has been.

So I do ask where does Carrick belong in terms all time great players for United in our history, is he the greatest CDM that our club has had?, his he one of the best Midfielders that United have had?.

For me outside of Scholes, Charlton, (Robson, I forgot :confused:) and Keane he is the best mid that we have had but i do wonder am i alone with this opinion or is it common.
 
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Cooksen said:
For me outside of Scholes, Charlton and Keane he is the best mid that we have had but i do wonder am i alone with this opinion or is it common.
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Add Robbo on that list and i agree, tier below that four.
 
Cooksen said:
Most of us are aware of the impact that carrick has had on our football club in the last few seasons and how good of a player he has been.

So I do ask where does Carrick belong in terms all time great players for United in our history, is he the greatest CDM that our club has had?, his he one of the best Midfielders that United have had?.

For me outside of Scholes, Charlton and Keane he is the best mid that we have had but i do wonder am i alone with this opinion or is it common.
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Brian Robson was better.
 
Cooksen said:
Most of us are aware of the impact that carrick has had on our football club in the last few seasons and how good of a player he has been.

So I do ask where does Carrick belong in terms all time great players for United in our history, is he the greatest CDM that our club has had?, his he one of the best Midfielders that United have had?.

For me outside of Scholes, Charlton and Keane he is the best mid that we have had but i do wonder am i alone with this opinion or is it common.
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You forgot Robson didnt you?
 
Carrick is certainly one of the most intelligent players in our squad. His positioning and reading the game is second to none. However, last season under Van Gaal, he was one of the most frustrating footballers. Was waiting too long on the ball (and in consequence getting dispossessed of it) and his decision making was poor (of course most of it comes down to the manager, and his useless "play it safe" tactics). But now under Mourinho he is incredible. Being surrounded by Ander and Pogba brings the best out of him, and vice versa. I really hope he'll stay injury-free this season. Certainly one of the most important players in our recent history.
 
I'd certainly place him up there with the best, instrumental in one of our most successful periods and even during the barren past few years has proved time and time again (under all 3 managers) he's still the best midfielder at the club

Still not really appreciated by most supporters
 
Like many of the top players, almost impossible to replace and equally important and under estimated is the ability to have played at the top level for so long.

Can't believe the limited about of England caps this lads had.....
 
In my time he is only inferior to Keane and Scholes.
 
Level below Keane, Scholes, et al., but level above other popular players like Butt, Fletcher.
 
Carrick is such an odd case on here. He really went from underrated to overrated on the Caf during the 12/13 season when he was absolutely fantastic in the league. He's clearly a few tiers below United's greatest midfielders and could never handle battles against elite midfielders of other clubs like Keane, Scholes or Robson could. He stood out in 12/13 when the midfields in the Premier League were in general on a truely poor level compared to the past (and probably soon present), but at no point did he excel in the CL or was worthy of a regular starting spot for England (judged on his actual performances for the nationalteam).

He was a great support to the elite players in the team during United's sensational years from 2006 to 2011 and you could often read harsh criticism about his role on here, which then all of a sudden changed when the team around him declined while he still kept his level. Now you can read comments how England failed to build a team around him and stuff like that, which is frankly nonsense. He was never good enough to build a team or a midfield around him if you want to actually challenge for the biggest trophies.
 
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Tier 1 - Keane, Robson, Best, Law, Charlton, Scholes and Cantona
Tier 2 - Giggs, Beckham, Voillet, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Vidic, Schmeichel and McGrath
Tier 3 - Butt, Carrick, G.Nev, Stapleton, Evra and Van Der Sar

*DISCLAIMER* This is just my opinion of where Carrick fits in..
 
Balu said:
Now you can read comments how England failed to build a team around him and stuff like that, which is frankly nonsense. He was never good enough to build a team or a midfield around him if you want to actually challenge for the biggest trophies.
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He doesnt need a team to be built around him, if anything he places a platform for others to shine so in fact with him in the team you have the opportunity to build a team around someone else. How england national team treated him is absolutely pathetic and just one of the many reasons why they are so shit at highest level/major tournaments.
 
Lord Megadrive said:
Tier 1 - Keane, Robson, Best, Law, Charlton, Scholes and Cantona
Tier 2 - Giggs, Beckham, Voillet, Ronaldo, Ferdinand, Vidic, Schmeichel and McGrath
Tier 3 - Butt, Carrick, G.Nev, Stapleton, Evra and Van Der Sar

*DISCLAIMER* This is just my opinion of where Carrick fits in..
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Would be helpful if the tiers were limited to just central midfielders.
 
Lord Megadrive said:
Here we go...

Tier 1 - Keane, Robson, Best, Charlton*, and Scholes
Tier 2 - Giggs, Beckham, Voillet*, and Ronaldo
Tier 3 - Butt, Carrick

Would more likely be classified as midfielders today?
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Central midfielders?
 
Balu said:
Carrick is such an odd case on here. He really went from underrated to overrated on the Caf during the 12/13 season when he was absolutely fantastic in the league. He's clearly a few tiers below United's greatest midfielders and could never handle battles against elite midfielders of other clubs like Keane, Scholes or Robson could. He stood out in 12/13 when the midfields in the Premier League were in general on a truely poor level compared to the past (and probably soon present), but at no point did he excel in the CL or was worthy of a regular starting spot for England (judged on his actual performances for the nationalteam).

He was a great support to the elite players in the team during United's sensational years from 2006 to 2011 and you could often read harsh criticism about his role on here, which then all of a sudden changed when the team around him declined while he still kept his level. Now you can read comments how England failed to build a team around him and stuff like that, which is frankly nonsense. He was never good enough to build a team or a midfield around him if you want to actually challenge for the biggest trophies.
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Always felt he was the solution to the Lampard-Gerrard problem. Both Lampard and Gerrard were better in advanced roles but were being forced to play in a two. Playing 4-3-3 with Carrick sweeping up behind Gerrard and Lampard and we probably would've seen better from those two. Then play Beckham wide right, Rooney wide left and Owen up front. I agree that he wasn't quite at the level of Keane or Scholes, and I find the comparisons with Xabi Alonso and Sergio Busquets in the Carrick thread a bit absurd: both of them are quite a bit better IMO. But that 4-3-3 setup IMO does have merit and allows Carrick to what he does best and play as the support for the elite players (Lampard, Gerrard, Rooney etc.). Though I also thought RvP would still be banging them in into his late 30s and that Darmian was an excellent right back having seen a handful of games for Italy and the start he had with us so I am almost certainly wrong.
 
Butt was not even that close to Carrick, I think you overrate Butty. He's never been a starter for us in a longer period, he had a chance in 2002-03 after a great World Cup, but got injured before Christmas and had a few problems after that being in and out of the team.
Then in 2003 when we sold Veron and Fergie had decided to go for the 4411 system with Scholes behind Ruud he had a great chance, but never took it as Phil Neville was the choice in central midfield instead and in 2004 Butt got sold. From what I remember so that being said.

So, Carrick was just so much better than Butt, he was a good squad player but you underestimate Carrick way too much if you think they are just as good.
Butt was 29 when he was sold and pretty much finished after that. Carrick is still doing great things at 35.
 
Carrick's been a big part of one of our greatest ever periods, but he's on the same level as Nicky Butt who was barely ever first choice?
 
He was the final key to the puzzle of what became Ferguson's most dominant United side. He also came to the club with the task of replacing one of the greatest midfielders and leaders the club had ever known. And despite not being a like for like replacement for Keane, Ferguson did not change the tactics to help Carrick but threw him to the deep end and told him to sink or swim. A decade later, we are still wondering who will be his replacement. There's all the proof you need about his status at United.

He was never good enough to build the midfield around him... But that's exactly what Ferguson did, especially in the post Ronaldo era when he reverted to his favorite 4411. We won 2 PL titles and lost the other two by a total of one point.

He is not as good as the other great holding midfielders of his generation like Busquets and Alonso... True to an extent but, yet again, none of them performed at the highest level in a midfield of two with an aging and immobile deep lying play maker next to them and with the next player being several yards higher up the pitch and playing as a second striker. You can't take that away from Carrick. This is where he proved the majority of our fan-base wrong.

From the midfielders i've watched, i'd place Keane and Robson ahead of him mainly because they were better leaders on the pitch, more vocal in the dressing room and they had developed a special connection with the fan base. They also were more gifted in the attacking phase of the game at a time when Ferguson sought dominance in the midfield through "combo-CMs" instead of an out an out DM and a creative midfielder (which was the norm) or the double pivots of his latter days.

As for the people who put him in the same tier as Butt, everyone's entitled to his opinion. You can believe that if we had Butt (whom i love for what he's offered) instead of Carrick, we would have won the '11 and the '13 PL titles. You can also believe in fairies and Santa Claus...
 
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Tarrou said:
Carrick's been a big part of one of our greatest ever periods, but he's on the same level as Nicky Butt who was barely ever first choice?
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Butt always gets overrated here because he's a Manc. Carrick is a significantly better midfielder for anyone who takes off the shades.
 
I don't see what Scholes did to belong to the top tier in people's lists other than being a darling of the fans. There was never a season in which both Beckham and Scholes played together in which Scholes was more important or influential to the team, other than perhaps Beckham's last. Scholes actually tended to be most expendable of the famous midfield four.

On pure footballing ability, I could see a case could be made for Scholes as top tier, but then by that line of reasoning, Keane would be in the third tier. Scholes, Giggs and Beckham belong in the same tier.
 
Raoul said:
Butt always gets overrated here because he's a Manc. Carrick is a significantly better midfielder for anyone who takes off the shades.
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The same Butt who at 28 years old had a fantastic chance to finally be a regular only to be seen dropped when Fergie rather played Phil Neville in midfield. Butt was, if any, overrated. Decent squad player but there's a reason he never took his chances when he got it.

Insult to Carrick saying he's on Butt's level.
 
Balu said:
Carrick is such an odd case on here. He really went from underrated to overrated on the Caf during the 12/13 season when he was absolutely fantastic in the league. He's clearly a few tiers below United's greatest midfielders and could never handle battles against elite midfielders of other clubs like Keane, Scholes or Robson could. He stood out in 12/13 when the midfields in the Premier League were in general on a truely poor level compared to the past (and probably soon present), but at no point did he excel in the CL or was worthy of a regular starting spot for England (judged on his actual performances for the nationalteam).

He was a great support to the elite players in the team during United's sensational years from 2006 to 2011 and you could often read harsh criticism about his role on here, which then all of a sudden changed when the team around him declined while he still kept his level. Now you can read comments how England failed to build a team around him and stuff like that, which is frankly nonsense. He was never good enough to build a team or a midfield around him if you want to actually challenge for the biggest trophies.
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Mentioning just his league 12/13 form is beyond ridiculous when Manchester United reached three Champions league finals, winning one and being stopped only by one of the best teams ever(if not the best) twice with Carrick as one of our instrumental players in all three campaigns. Last time we reached CL final, he was playing next to Giggs in midfield two ffs, and he was excellent. He was also at least twice our player of the season since 2010. He is going high even in his 36th, and he is still easily one of the best passers around.

But yeah, overrated. Let's talk now about building the team around Schwensteiger who at 31 couldn't play as good as Carrick can in his 36th.
 
Suggesting Butt was better than Carrick is the clear underrating of Carrick that I refer to, laughable to suggest Butt was ever close to Carrick's level
 
Raoul said:
Butt always gets overrated here because he's a Manc. Carrick is a significantly better midfielder for anyone who takes off the shades.
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Agree. Carrick was twice the player Nicky Butt was.

Like @Man-United said, Butt lost his place in the squad to Phil Neville before he was 30. And it's not like he had played a lot of games and started to fade.
 
As part of the squad that dominated domestically for 7 seasons then he would be just off the top, but as a midfielder judged against others at Utd over the years (say Robson was a 10) he would be a 7 - 7.5 max.
 
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