Where will the goals come from?

Lee565

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Just did a shot number comparison of central strikers in all our league games where both sides went with 1 up top. Tried to include subs and player position changes too where applicable. We're not creating chances for Hojlund, Martial or whoever.

Obviously everyone can see that, but I like numbers! A lot of it is on the player who plays there, a lot down to the system or coaching. Maybe this is acceptable to Ten Hag as a trade off for how he wants his #9 to play but I think we need to be doing better.

Solanke outshot Martial/Hojlund 5/2
Jackson outshot Hojlund/Rashford 2/1
Isak outshot Martial/Hojlund 3/1
Calvert Lewin outshot Martial/Rashford 5/1
Morris was outshot by Martial 2/3
Muniz/Vinicius outshot Hojlund/Martial 2/1
Haaland outshot Hojlund/Martial 4/1
Mateta outshot Hojlund 3/0
Amdouni/Rodriguez outshot Hojlund 3/2
Nketiah/Jesus had as many shots as Martial/Hojlund 2/2
Awoniyi/Wood outshot Martial/Sancho 3/1
Richarlison/Son were outshot by Rashford/Martial 0/3

12 matches where both side have gone with a 1 up top formation. Opponent's #9 outshot ours in 9 of them, 1 tie.

Total shot count from #9's in these matches = Us 18, Opponents 34.

Maybe xG would be better? Might do that next.
That is probably because the way ten hag has set us up with basically 1 man midfield which has allowed teams to counter attack us at free will, plus the opposition probably has a shot on sight policy with Mr butterfingers in our goal
 

frostbite

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16 games, 18 goals.

McTominay 5
Bruno 3
Rashford 2
Eight players with 1.

Our strikers:
Martial 1
Hojlund 0
The other interesting thing, is that many people on this forum want McTominay sold, and we have a lot of posts about "Rashford and Bruno are the problem". Yet, these three players are our top scorers so far, they have scored 10 out of 18 goals. Of course, this is not great, but the real problem is that everyone else is even worse!

Sure, it would be nice if we could use some other, fantastic, world-class, imaginary players. But we don't have them. If Antony had scored 8 goals and Hojlund had scored 10 goals, then we'd be great. Unfortunately, they don't score at all. And I doubt that replacing Bruno with Mount will help us score more.
 

neon_badger

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The other interesting thing, is that many people on this forum want McTominay sold, and we have a lot of posts about "Rashford and Bruno are the problem". Yet, these three players are our top scorers so far, they have scored 10 out of 18 goals. Of course, this is not great, but the real problem is that everyone else is even worse!

Sure, it would be nice if we could use some other, fantastic, world-class, imaginary players. But we don't have them. If Antony had scored 8 goals and Hojlund had scored 10 goals, then we'd be great. Unfortunately, they don't score at all. And I doubt that replacing Bruno with Mount will help us score more.
The McTominay goals as good as they were come at a price, I'm sure most opposition teams will be aware of his late runs into the box now and are prepared for it, the price we pay is a nonexistent midfield when we play both McTominay and Bruno. McTominay on the bench isn't a bad weapon to deploy if we're in the shit against a stretched defence and we're winning set pieces, as for Rashford outscoring 8 players (mostly defenders or players that haven't featured much) by one goal, a charitable penalty at that, isn't much to shout about. We really need a striker in January.
 

Strelok

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Obviously goals would come from good goalscorers. Which we have none atm.

We absolutely need to buy/loan one in Jan. Not necessarily a #9. Can be a RW.
 

Big Ben Foster

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Crazy and depressing stat: our last forward to score at home in the league was Sancho in May against Fulham
 

Paul778

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The McTominay goals as good as they were come at a price, I'm sure most opposition teams will be aware of his late runs into the box now and are prepared for it, the price we pay is a nonexistent midfield when we play both McTominay and Bruno. McTominay on the bench isn't a bad weapon to deploy if we're in the shit against a stretched defence and we're winning set pieces, as for Rashford outscoring 8 players (mostly defenders or players that haven't featured much) by one goal, a charitable penalty at that, isn't much to shout about. We really need a striker in January.
If our full backs continue to shoot from crazy angles and our wingers continue to turn inside and lose the ball trying to beat a third defender, it doesn't matter who plays 9.
 

neon_badger

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If our full backs continue to shoot from crazy angles and our wingers continue to turn inside and lose the ball trying to beat a third defender, it doesn't matter who plays 9.
I agree with the frustration that our wingers and fullbacks bring with their wasteful play, I can't understand why Ten Hag isn't on the touchline bollocking them when they do this. But this wasteful play along with other attacking weakness suggests we need two stronger midfielders like Mainoo/Amrabat behind Fernandes or McTominay
 

Paul778

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I agree with the frustration that our wingers and fullbacks bring with their wasteful play, I can't understand why Ten Hag isn't on the touchline bollocking them when they do this. But this wasteful play along with other attacking weakness suggests we need two stronger midfielders like Mainoo/Amrabat behind Fernandes or McTominay
The key word above is small but crucial...

OR - one or the other but not both.

Why can everyone else in the stadium and on TV see this but not ETH. What makes him think after 10+ games of it clearly not working, it's suddenly going to come good playing two 10s and one 6?
 

Ole'sgunnarwin

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Crazy and depressing stat: our last forward to score at home in the league was Sancho in May against Fulham
If you were to say Ronaldo, Weghorst and Hojland have been our main strikers, there's one league goal between them since August 2022. Ronaldo vs Everton
 

Todd

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18 goals through 18 league matches. Just clear of the bottom quarter in terms of worst output.

At the rate we're going we'll be lucky to hit 40. The most impotent United squad of the EPL era, surely?
 

Irwin99

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18 goals through 18 league matches. Just clear of the bottom quarter in terms of worst output.

At the rate we're going we'll be lucky to hit 40. The most impotent United squad of the EPL era, surely?
I had a look and yeah, even LVG's second season had better goals scored than this at this stage (22 goals) and we finished with 49 goals for the season that year, our lowest in the Premier league era.
 

Loon

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There was some stat mentioned today that was tantamount to Hojlund being the least fed striker in the Premier League. I’m no tactical genius…
 

Captmfla

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Hojlund did well today despite not scoring. His immense size and speed proves that his hold-up play is better than Martial.
 

OleGunnar20

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There was some stat mentioned today that was tantamount to Hojlund being the least fed striker in the Premier League. I’m no tactical genius…
Yep, it's pathetic. Hojlund hasn't been great in himself but christ, he's barely been given a chance.

We need to drop our selfish, ineffectual wingers in Rashford, Garnacho & Antony and go with creators out wide.

I'd like to see Mount given a run at RW, a position he did well in at Chelsea and obviously an issue for us. I'd also like to see Amad given a run there when fit. Pellistri is fine as a backup. Antony should be part ex'ed for a decent Ford fiesta for the tea lady.

On the left we're somehow in an even worse state. Garnacho has promise but isn't ready yet. He's so inconsistent in his finishing and is not a creator at all. Rashford has clearly checked out and needs to be sold if we're to fix the mentality of this club. The guy so clearly no longer gives a shite.

I'd like so see us dip into the transfer market in January for a LW/ST option if there's anyone decent available. Alternatively perhaps Bruno would work out there, as he's clearly not functioning in midfield this season.

Shambles really isn't it.
 

GoonerGirly

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Yep, it's pathetic. Hojlund hasn't been great in himself but christ, he's barely been given a chance.

We need to drop our selfish, ineffectual wingers in Rashford, Garnacho & Antony and go with creators out wide.

I'd like to see Mount given a run at RW, a position he did well in at Chelsea and obviously an issue for us. I'd also like to see Amad given a run there when fit. Pellistri is fine as a backup. Antony should be part ex'ed for a decent Ford fiesta for the tea lady.

On the left we're somehow in an even worse state. Garnacho has promise but isn't ready yet. He's so inconsistent in his finishing and is not a creator at all. Rashford has clearly checked out and needs to be sold if we're to fix the mentality of this club. The guy so clearly no longer gives a shite.

I'd like so see us dip into the transfer market in January for a LW/ST option if there's anyone decent available. Alternatively perhaps Bruno would work out there, as he's clearly not functioning in midfield this season.

Shambles really isn't it.
Didn't he just sign a new contract?
 

IRN-BRUno

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Ten Hag got plenty of criticism on here for starting Rashford as long as he did this season but it's clear to see why because he's pretty much the only goal threat in the squad. Even in horrendous form he's more likely than most to get a goal. Garnacho, Hojlund and Antony is a worse front 3 than Leicester had when relegated last year and they also had Maddison contributing far more than Bruno.

Our set-pieces have been atrocious for years, most sides will nick several wins a season from corners/free-kicks but we get absolutely nothing from them.

For Rashford earlier in the season, see McTominay now. We all know he's a liability in midfield but the grim reality at the moment is that he represents our best chance of scoring.
 

mav_9me

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Can you imagine how Fergie would react if his wingers passed once a game to the striker?

That is yet another colossal coaching/management failure on ETH part.
 

mav_9me

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Ten Hag got plenty of criticism on here for starting Rashford as long as he did this season but it's clear to see why because he's pretty much the only goal threat in the squad. Even in horrendous form he's more likely than most to get a goal. Garnacho, Hojlund and Antony is a worse front 3 than Leicester had when relegated last year and they also had Maddison contributing far more than Bruno.

Our set-pieces have been atrocious for years, most sides will nick several wins a season from corners/free-kicks but we get absolutely nothing from them.

For Rashford earlier in the season, see McTominay now. We all know he's a liability in midfield but the grim reality at the moment is that he represents our best chance of scoring.
Absolutely not. Take him out, play a better midfield, control the game more, play the game with more time and closer to the opposition box, you'll see chances go up and more goals. Now that's not necessarily going to make us City, we still need to work on basic attacking stuff. Also removing McT is the simplest solution but not necessarily a magical solution.
 

Bobski

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Absolutely not. Take him out, play a better midfield, control the game more, play the game with more time and closer to the opposition box, you'll see chances go up and more goals. Now that's not necessarily going to make us City, we still need to work on basic attacking stuff. Also removing McT is the simplest solution but not necessarily a magical solution.
What will likely happen is McT goes out when Mount returns, we continue to play the same moronic system with Mount on the edge of the game in the same role as McT , the goals still don't flow, the young attackers are still a long way from being ready, Mount becomes the scapegoat for managerial ineptitude.

The change that needs to happen is Ten Hag completely ripping up his midfield set up and playing 2 deeper midfielders, one of whom has a little more freedom to go box to box. The 4-1----------5 needed to die months ago.
 

Yakuza_devils

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At first, they say Onana will transformed our play and we can press and play higher line, and thus resolved our goal scoring problem.

Then, they say Mount is the final missing piece of jigsaw to enable us to press high and transition to attack quickly. Hojlund was also bought for his work rate at final third pressing and linking up plays.

The latest is that we are told we need to wait for Martinez to come back and build our attack from deep to resolve our goal scoring issues.

The reality is I don't think ETH attacking play suited to EPL. It could work in Eredivisie or even Europe. But EPL is different animal and the pace is much higher. You can't play slow zombie attacking style.
 

Leftback99

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What will likely happen is McT goes out when Mount returns, we continue to play the same moronic system with Mount on the edge of the game in the same role as McT , the goals still don't flow, the young attackers are still a long way from being ready, Mount becomes the scapegoat for managerial ineptitude.

The change that needs to happen is Ten Hag completely ripping up his midfield set up and playing 2 deeper midfielders, one of whom has a little more freedom to go box to box. The 4-1----------5 needed to die months ago.
Ten Hag is too stubborn to change now.

You would have to think that a new manager coming in would go back to basics.

4-2-3-1. Solid base, full backs overlapping, Bruno/Mount at 10/RW, Antony dropped, Sancho given another chance.

I don't see this set of forwards ever scoring a lot of goals but there's scope there to be a lot better than the dross they are serving up.
 

BigRon1985

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The decison to sell Elanga is looking more and moronic - with the benefit of hindsight of course.......
 

Ole'sgunnarwin

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I think we will get around 50 goals, and I doubt that anyone will see double digits.
This looks likely. No player has scored more than 7 league goals so far.

Also only 5 players have scored more than 1 league goal.
 

frostbite

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Haha as if Elanga would score those goals with us.
Everyone is saying that we must have patience with Hojlund and give him time because he is very young. And they are right.

The thing is that Elanga is only 9 months older than Hojlund!

Since we don't have anyone else except Martial, it was a blunder by ETH to sell Elanga, no matter how you slice it.
 

Ali Dia

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Everyone is saying that we must have patience with Hojlund and give him time because he is very young. And they are right.

The thing is that Elanga is only 9 months older than Hojlund!

Since we don't have anyone else except Martial, it was a blunder by ETH to sell Elanga, no matter how you slice it.
Elanga at his top level is a good PL player but we need to be looking for world class going forward. Just becasue he’s had a good season it doesn’t really justify anything, just that the players we have here who we are paying a lot more money to are majorly underperforming for whatever reason. Look at all the ex city and Chelsea youth doing really well in the league and getting linked with bigger clubs. This is going to happen more often if we have a bottleneck of talents and are looking to make better money selling players who are on the way up.

We probably could have given Elanga 20 games here this season and then his value would have stagnated. I’m fairly sure of that. He just needed to go and get regular first team football, it was the next gradual step. He’s always going to be a bit part squad player at a big club. I think flat out that’s his level and there’s no shame in that at all.
 
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Theonas

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Everyone is saying that we must have patience with Hojlund and give him time because he is very young. And they are right.

The thing is that Elanga is only 9 months older than Hojlund!

Since we don't have anyone else except Martial, it was a blunder by ETH to sell Elanga, no matter how you slice it.
14 teams scored more than us this season. Luton and Brentford scored more goals than us. If that tells us anything, it's that our problems are most definitely not personel and they won't be solved by personel change alone.
 

thisisnottaken1

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14 teams scored more than us this season. Luton and Brentford scored more goals than us. If that tells us anything, it's that our problems are most definitely not personel and they won't be solved by personel change alone.
Yup. It’s the shocking service our strikers receive.
 

MadDogg

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Everyone is saying that we must have patience with Hojlund and give him time because he is very young. And they are right.

The thing is that Elanga is only 9 months older than Hojlund!

Since we don't have anyone else except Martial, it was a blunder by ETH to sell Elanga, no matter how you slice it.
I think Elanga had to leave for his own good.

When he first broke into the team under Rangnick he looked like a decent PL player, but he struggled badly last season. Looked like the pressure of playing for Utd had really got to him and he could barely do the basics. If that was the case and he was struggling with the pressure, that wouldn't have improved this season. Indeed with how badly things have gone it would have gotten worse. I feel he had to drop down a couple of levels where he could build himself back up, and he seems to have successfully done that.
 

Woziak

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Let’s not kid ourselves here, we scored 58 goals with Ronaldo, Cavani, Greenwood, Sancho and Rashford the season we came 6th with 58 points.

There is a much bigger problem here, United does not work with an efficient attacking unit, we get very little goals from set pieces, we get very few assists from the full backs and the Midfield rarely dominate matches were we can constantly probe our opponents, an attacking coach that drills the team day in day out is needed and then more ruthless options up front, we need an Osimhen or Toney, we need An Olise o N Williams, we need two starters up top simple and a much better goal scoring midfielder than Eriksen or Bruno right now?

Ultimately we need an attacking coach that expects to score two goals per game.
 

frostbite

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14 teams scored more than us this season. Luton and Brentford scored more goals than us. If that tells us anything, it's that our problems are most definitely not personel and they won't be solved by personel change alone.
Sure, our problem is that ETH is not good enough, he made too many mistakes, and selling Elanga is one of the mistakes. Elanga would provide cover and competition to Hojlund and Antony. Especially for the striker position we don't have anyone else, since Rashford doesn't really want to play there and Martial is always injured. And we knew all that last summer, I really cannot see the point of selling Elanga, it was the wrong move for us at this particular point in time.
 

Sunny Jim

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Sure, our problem is that ETH is not good enough, he made too many mistakes, and selling Elanga is one of the mistakes. Elanga would provide cover and competition to Hojlund and Antony. Especially for the striker position we don't have anyone else, since Rashford doesn't really want to play there and Martial is always injured. And we knew all that last summer, I really cannot see the point of selling Elanga, it was the wrong move for us at this particular point in time.
I think selling Elanga was crucial for FPP mate. Sure, we could have skipped the Amrabat deal but who* knew he would be a meh transfer.

* most Serie A covering journos said he was a bit meh
 

Leftback99

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The race is on to beat LVGs horrendous 49 goals scored in 15-16.
 

frostbite

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I think selling Elanga was crucial for FPP mate. Sure, we could have skipped the Amrabat deal but who* knew he would be a meh transfer.

* most Serie A covering journos said he was a bit meh
Was he? How much did we sell him for? 15 million? Is 15 million that important for us?

And about Amrabat... ETH worked in the past with Amrabat, shouldn't he know more than the Serie A journos?
 

RuudTom83

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Elanga has played 30 times in the league this season and has scored 5 gaols...letting him go was 100% the right decision.
 

frostbite

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Elanga has played 30 times in the league this season and has scored 5 gaols...letting him go was 100% the right decision.
The question is not if Elanga is the new Van Nistelrooy. The question is if Elanga would help us this particular year.