Which players did SAF stick with in spite of fan discontent?

[RUCK4444]

Carrick comes to mind. Many couldn’t see his glaring qualities until he had retired, we still haven’t effectively replaced him.

 

[K Stand Knut]

Fletcher was moaned about, so was Carrick.
De Gea is a fantastic keeper, not many who are better than him.

Yet, some want to sell him and replace him. We have other areas on the pitch that needs upgrades. The GK situation is the least of our worries

correct. The GK situation is easy. Get rid of DDG.

Loads of better keepers out there. Potentially one already at the club. Unfortunately, we’ll go in to summer with both DDG and Henderson without really knowing if Henderson is ready to step up.

We’ll then sell Henderson and be stuck with a once world class shot-stopper and be having the same conversations about our porous defence in March 2021.

 

[GlasgowCeltic]

To be fair, Giggs was pretty poor for a couple of seasons when he was adapting to not being a flying winger any more.

I will be in the real minority here, but I think he played his best football for us between the ages of 34 and 37.

Incredible when you think about it, for me his best spells were around 92-94 and 2009-2011

 

[SER19]

Rooney. Yes fergie publicly spoke about it at the most controversial time but Rooney never got phased out the way others who stepped out of line did, even when fans were pissed

Though that wasn't so much form based

 

[Ali Dia]

Generally SAF stuck with players who were either

a) young(ish) and hadn't peaked. He was trusting them to fulfil their potential. Fletcher is the prime example, but you could stick Ronaldo, Cleverley, Evans, Chadwick and loads of others into that category. Players who didnt thrive at first but still got lots of chances in the first team. He'd give them every possible chance. Some ended up good enough, some didn't, but the principle was consistent.

b) weren't flash, but did a job for him. Silvestre, Fortune, P Nev, Butt, Brown, May, Park, loads of others. Fans often wouldn't be happy because they'd usually be replacing some far better or more exciting player. Fans understandably want the maximum number of attacking talents on the pitch. But SAF knew they could do what he needed in a given game. Whether for tactical or rotation reasons, he'd play them to get the results he wanted.

What he didn't do was stick with players underperformed, just because of their reputation, wage, or how they played in the past. Players like Sharpe, Ruud, Keane & Ince, etc were gotten rid of, despite their popularity. Whether he sensed a drop in performance level, or he thought they weren't taking training seriously, or he thought they were causing problems in the squad, how they performed in the past made no difference. He looked at what they could do now, and in the future, and decided based on that. It wasn't so much ruthless as unsentimental.

Looking at today's squad, I think De Gea wouldn't be in the team now, given his performance levels and that we have a solid prospect on the bench to replace him. But I could see him giving Dan James plenty of game time, even if its touch and go whether James will end up being United quality in the long term.

Nice post and that’s how I feel about martial and pogba. I think Ole is sticking with them because the owners have made them untouchable up to now which isn’t a good precedent to set. Hopefully they let the manager manage the squad from now on. Under Fergie, If Pogba was walking around the pitch losing the ball and costing us soft goals? He’d be gone and that’s before any of the transfer stuff. Same thing with Martial wilting any time any competition was brought in to challenge. He’d also be gone. We need to give that power back to the manager or else we end up with too much player power and that’s not good when the players with the power don’t have the right mentality to give everything to take us forward.

 

[MrMarcello]

Continuing with Silvestre in central defense at times rankled even the most ardent SAF supporter.

 

[Foxbatt]

Fletcher. People wanted him sold in 2005, was still around in 2014.

I am still around. Never thought much of him then and even now. He turns away from the play most of the time. He takes an extra touch always. He was the Fred of that time though he was a much better header of the ball and had better positional play than Fred. Yes he would walk into this side.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Agreed. Tevez became the nr. 1 fan enemy, but I never felt the team improved or rised another level with Berbatov. Tevez struggled in his second season here, but was a major part of the 07/08 success and also scored som vital goals in 08/09. I can see why Fergie wanted to bring another type of striker to give more variation to the attack, but I don’t understand why Tevez’ role decreased that much.

I think Fergie knew it was Ronaldo's last year, so bedded Berba in thinking we were going to have to change our style. Shame really, as Tevez was immense that first season and was successful at City and Juve.

 

[Fitchett]

Eric Djemba-Djemba played more games for us than he should have done. To think that Nicky Butt was sold to make way for him .......

 

[KetilOwren88]

I think Fergie knew it was Ronaldo's last year, so bedded Berba in thinking we were going to have to change our style. Shame really, as Tevez was immense that first season and was successful at City and Juve.

Yes maybe, but both Ron and Tevez leaving at the same time was a big blow. I believe it was never the plan to see Tevez leave, but even SAF wasn’t perfect

 

[Bowden]

Valencia maybe? For many fans, he has come to represent the Glazers not funding the team as an adequate replacement for Ronaldo. Outside of that, I thought he played well for us and he and Rooney had a decent connection on the right.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Agreed. Tevez became the nr. 1 fan enemy, but I never felt the team improved or rised another level with Berbatov. Tevez struggled in his second season here, but was a major part of the 07/08 success and also scored som vital goals in 08/09. I can see why Fergie wanted to bring another type of striker to give more variation to the attack, but I don’t understand why Tevez’ role decreased that much.

SAF doesn't like deceitful players. Tevez was told early on that they would discuss his future when the season is over and he was happy with that. Next thing you know an agent got in his ear and he started yapping on about his contract. Had Tevez just kept his mouth shut and waited until the season was over he would have been offered a very good contract. Instead City came calling and offered him big money while he was still a United player. SAF was having none of it. Good riddance to him...

 

[KetilOwren88]

SAF doesn't like deceitful players. Tevez was told early on that they would discuss his future when the season is over and he was happy with that. Next thing you know an agent got in his ear and he started yapping on about his contract. Had Tevez just kept his mouth shut and waited until the season was over he would have been offered a very good contract. Instead City came calling and offered him big money while he was still a United player. SAF was having none of it. Good riddance to him...

Well, I have to admit I don’t know the full story, but while I agree what you say about SAF’s principles I still believe the Tevez incident could have been handled in a better way. I think Tevez’ main problem was that he wasn’t exactly the most intelligent person in the world and vulnerable to bad advicing, not so different to Wazza who got a new contract instead. In Tevez’ case I do understand him a bit though. He was far to good to be on the bench, but going to City obviously cut losses with his United popularity

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Yes maybe, but both Ron and Tevez leaving at the same time was a big blow. I believe it was never the plan to see Tevez leave, but even SAF wasn’t perfect

We didn't win the league that year because of our offense. As great as Ronaldo and Tevez were we only scored 68 goals that year. The following year we scored 86 without them and narrowly missed out on the league by one point to Chelsea...

 

[KetilOwren88]

We didn't win the league that year because of our offense. As great as Ronaldo and Tevez were we only scored 68 goals that year. The following year we scored 86 without them and narrowly missed out on the league by one point to Chelsea...

That’s true, but I would choose the 08/09 team instead of the 09/10 any day of the week still. I also remember United playing more like a machine team in that last Ronaldo season and it could be boring at times. I mean the post Ronaldo era was the beginning of United’s decrease despite winning two league titles and loosing a CL finale. Great players were replaced by lesser talent

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Well, I have to admit I don’t know the full story, but while I agree what you say about SAF’s principles I still believe the Tevez incident could have been handled in a better way. I think Tevez’ main problem was that he wasn’t exactly the most intelligent person in the world and vulnerable to bad advicing, not so different to Wazza who got a new contract instead. In Tevez’ case I do understand him a bit though. He was far to good to be on the bench, but going to City obviously cut losses with his United popularity

Gill: Ok Tevez, you're doing great but we are in a title race and making a big push in Europe, so we want to concentrate on that for now and then we will talk about making your move here permanent when the season ends ok?

Tevez: Ok sound good

City: Psst....Carlos. We have a big cheque for you

Tevez (banging on Gills door): Me want my big contract now. Me need talk now. Must do now

Gill: Carlos, we told you, there are big things happening with the team right now and we need to concentrate on that. There will be plenty of time to talk about this when the season ends

Tevez: ok sound good

City: Psst....Carlos. We have a big cheque for you

Tevez: Me need talk contract now

SAF: F*ck off

 

[KetilOwren88]

Gill: Ok Tevez, you're doing great but we are in a title race and making a big push in Europe, so we want to concentrate on that for now and then we will talk about making your move here permanent when the season ends ok?

Tevez: Ok sound good

City: Psst....Carlos. We have a big cheque for you

Tevez (banging on Gills door): Me want my big contract now. Me need talk now. Must do now

Gill: Carlos, we told you, there are big things happening with the team right now and we need to concentrate on that. There will be plenty of time to talk about this when the season ends

Tevez: ok sound good

City: Psst....Carlos. We have a big cheque for you

Tevez: Me need talk contract now

SAF: F*ck off

Yes, and I am not defending Tevez’ antics or City transfer at all. I’am only saying that it was a shame he left in that manner (fan favourite and good player) and that I still believe it could have been better handled by the club. As already mentioned, his role decreased that season and he became frustrated. SAF’s policy was great, but neither him was perfect.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Generally SAF stuck with players who were either

a) young(ish) and hadn't peaked. He was trusting them to fulfil their potential. Fletcher is the prime example, but you could stick Ronaldo, Cleverley, Evans, Chadwick and loads of others into that category. Players who didnt thrive at first but still got lots of chances in the first team. He'd give them every possible chance. Some ended up good enough, some didn't, but the principle was consistent.

b) weren't flash, but did a job for him. Silvestre, Fortune, P Nev, Butt, Brown, May, Park, loads of others. Fans often wouldn't be happy because they'd usually be replacing some far better or more exciting player. Fans understandably want the maximum number of attacking talents on the pitch. But SAF knew they could do what he needed in a given game. Whether for tactical or rotation reasons, he'd play them to get the results he wanted.

What he didn't do was stick with players who underperformed, just because of their reputation, wage, or how they played in the past. Players like Sharpe, Ruud, Keane & Ince, etc were gotten rid of, despite their popularity. Whether he sensed a drop in performance level, or he thought they weren't taking training seriously, or he thought they were causing problems in the squad, how they performed in the past made no difference. He looked at what they could do now, and in the future, and decided based on that. It wasn't so much ruthless as unsentimental.

Looking at today's squad, I think De Gea wouldn't be in the team now, given his performance levels and that we have a solid prospect on the bench to replace him. But I could see him giving Dan James plenty of game time, even if its touch and go whether James will end up being United quality in the long term.

Love this post. Totally agree.

 

[iHicksy]

I'd say Fletcher was the most disliked. In his early days he didn't really offer much and gave the ball away rather a lot. This was coming off the back of having the likes of Keane in centre mid. Carrick was routinely slated for a while too. I don't think United fans understood what kind of midfielder he was in a time when a "quarter back" wasn't really a thing. Obviously fergie was correct about both. I'd give a shout our to Anderson too. He had moments of brilliance but for the most part was just seen as a "fun guy" to have around towards the end.

 

[Inter Yer Nan]

Yes maybe, but both Ron and Tevez leaving at the same time was a big blow. I believe it was never the plan to see Tevez leave, but even SAF wasn’t perfect

I think he know our style of play had to change a lot, and wanted to go the one big forward route, so sort of knew Tevez could/would leave.

 

[dwd]

First 3 names I thought of were Giggs, carrick and fletcher

I'd add Rio to that as well.

 

[Maticmaker]

Seem to remember Evra and Vidic both came in January (window) and both had horrendous starts, but SAF kept the faith, with both of them.

 

[Cast5]

Ronaldo

 

[Offside]

Darren Fletcher in his early years playing on the right wing. I would actually also mension Berbatov in his first season, as I feel the majority of our fans wanted Tevez instead.

What are we saying? That Berbatov turned out fine in the end? His second season was worse than his first. If it wasn’t for the first half of 10/11 and the obvious class he had that now makes great YouTube complications, he would be considered a big flop.

Huge mistake to choose him over Tevez. One of Fergie’s worst.

 

[Steven7290]

Carrick comes to mind. Many couldn’t see his glaring qualities until he had retired, we still haven’t effectively replaced him.

it really felt like that for the last two number 16s we had. For years when Carrick was playing I felt we never replaced Keane, after he retired it was the same situation.

 

[The-Natural]

John O'Shea had a good first season but then was poor to average every season that followed. Didn't stop him being involved in the first team for close to a decade and even starting the Champions League final in 2009.

Granted he seemed a good lad but was hard not to be a bit frustrated at Fergie sticking with him when he was never ever of the required quality for a team with our ambitions. Watching him eternally a yard off the pace at right back was tiring.

 

[Oranges038]

John O'Shea had a good first season but then was poor to average every season that followed. Didn't stop him being involved in the first team for close to a decade and even starting the Champions League final in 2009.

Granted he seemed a good lad but was hard not to be a bit frustrated at Fergie sticking with him when he was never ever of the required quality for a team with our ambitions. Watching him eternally a yard off the pace at right back was tiring.

John O'Shea

Played almost 400 games, up on 40 games a season for 10 years, played in every position, scored some decent/important goals and nutmegged Figo.

Top quality professional who always gave his best. No way does he deserve to be anywhere near this thread.

 

[Ibi Dreams]

John O'Shea had a good first season but then was poor to average every season that followed. Didn't stop him being involved in the first team for close to a decade and even starting the Champions League final in 2009.

Granted he seemed a good lad but was hard not to be a bit frustrated at Fergie sticking with him when he was never ever of the required quality for a team with our ambitions. Watching him eternally a yard off the pace at right back was tiring.

I don't remember anyone really being unhappy with him though, I certainly wasn't. You knew he wasn't an amazing talent but he was generally a solid backup option in multiple positions. The amount he won with us proves that "he wasn't of the required quality" isn't true, he had certain qualities that made him a very useful and successful player during a period where we were a dominant team

 

[Fitchett]

I don't remember anyone really being unhappy with him though, I certainly wasn't. You knew he wasn't an amazing talent but he was generally a solid backup option in multiple positions. The amount he won with us proves that "he wasn't of the required quality" isn't true, he had certain qualities that made him a very useful and successful player during a period where we were a dominant team

He was a good keeper as well.

 

[Oddboy]

Giggs was the obvious one. Fans wanted him out as early as 2002.

Rooney 2010 - 2013.

Fletcher, Evans, Smith, Carrick.

I seem to remember Giggs having a series of hamstring injuries around that time. For around 2 years he just couldn't shake them off - wonder if that was what contributed to that spell of poor form.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Yes, and I am not defending Tevez’ antics or City transfer at all. I’am only saying that it was a shame he left in that manner (fan favourite and good player) and that I still believe it could have been better handled by the club. As already mentioned, his role decreased that season and he became frustrated. SAF’s policy was great, but neither him was perfect.

I posted that so you could get an idea of what happened (with some obvious tongue in cheek) and your response is "it could have been better handled by the club". Sorry, but that's wrong. The person who could have handled it better was Tevez...

 

[KetilOwren88]

I posted that so you could get an idea of what happened (with some obvious tongue in cheek) and your response is "it could have been better handled by the club". Sorry, but that's wrong. The person who could have handled it better was Tevez...

Well, that the situation should have been handled better by Tevez doesn’t mean the club couldn’t have handled it better too. It’s not black and white and we don’t know excatly what happened behind the scenes. If the contract was sorted out after his first season, City would never be able to sign him. It’s not that I disagree with you, but saying I am wrong and you right seems a bit black or white for me

 

[KetilOwren88]

What are we saying? That Berbatov turned out fine in the end? His second season was worse than his first. If it wasn’t for the first half of 10/11 and the obvious class he had that now makes great YouTube complications, he would be considered a big flop.

Huge mistake to choose him over Tevez. One of Fergie’s worst.

As a player I would choose Tevez everytime over Berbatov, and it’s a shame it turned out as it did. Ronaldo left and we knew it, but letting Tevez leave too was a blow.

 

[Foxbatt]

As a player I would choose Tevez everytime over Berbatov, and it’s a shame it turned out as it did. Ronaldo left and we knew it, but letting Tevez leave too was a blow.

I would choose Berbatov. He is a different kind of player. When Rooney was injured he led the line and without him we would not have scored those goals. Plus he obviously love United still. He chose us over City though he was getting a better financial deal with City.

 

[USREDEVIL]

Carrick comes to mind. Many couldn’t see his glaring qualities until he had retired, we still haven’t effectively replaced him.

Hell yeah. Anyone who's followed united for more than 10 years can see that all of the Carrick fanboys were far and few between back then. We lashed out at him as being a sideways passer and slowing down our attack. Now he's damn near a legend around here. Crazy.

 

[USREDEVIL]

De Gea... c'mon reach back to the recesses of that mind of yours!

 

[Crashoutcassius]

Fletcher Carrick de gea Neville park welbeck Nani smalling old giggs ... Silvestre was a big one ! There were so many

 

[RUCK4444]

Hell yeah. Anyone who's followed united for more than 10 years can see that all of the Carrick fanboys were far and few between back then. We lashed out at him as being a sideways passer and slowing down our attack. Now he's damn near a legend around here. Crazy.

Excellent player, hugely underrated whilst he was playing, until the last year or so where the penny had dropped with many fans.

Intelligent footballer, great reader of the game and range of passing.

 

[Foxbatt]

Hell yeah. Anyone who's followed united for more than 10 years can see that all of the Carrick fanboys were far and few between back then. We lashed out at him as being a sideways passer and slowing down our attack. Now he's damn near a legend around here. Crazy.

One season he was horrible. Especially playing in midfield with Fletcher. They had an almost record passing stats then found out the majority percentage was between them. He has been responsible for some disasters too especially in Europe. I remember I think it was against Bayern once he got out muscled and they scored. Again in Europe on a night if we score we go thru Berbatov gave him a chance with only the keeper to beat and he fecked up.
He was a jack of all trades but for sure much better than the lot we have now. Heck Fletcher would walk into this side. Ando( fit Ando) would waltz into this side. So would Hargreaves or Park or even Phil Neville.

 

[Water Melon]

Hell yeah. Anyone who's followed united for more than 10 years can see that all of the Carrick fanboys were far and few between back then. We lashed out at him as being a sideways passer and slowing down our attack. Now he's damn near a legend around here. Crazy.

Spot on. We often called him a crab, now he is referred to as a metronom.