Other Which shows would pass muster...

[Grinner]

Trading Places is a tricky one because it offers loads of anti-racial commentary based on the bet between the Dukes. Winthorpe blacking up had a specific purpose and, in the story, would appear to have sanctioned by Valentine, who was also playing a caricature.

The story for Coming to America was Eddie Murphy's. Who wrote the screenplay is largely irrlevant, surely. Also the production company was Murphy's, too.

But Eddie dons Jewface in it. It has to go!

 

[Mr Pigeon]

They've just pulled the Lethal Weapon episode of Sunny.

I thought the one of the main points of that episode was that blackface isn't acceptable.

Maybe it's just a blanket pull of anything with blackface in it? Then later they can look through everything for context. It's a shame they've pulled it because the entire point of the blackface in that episode is exactly how you put it; because it's not acceptable, and every single character in the episode points this out.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

But Eddie dons Jewface in it. It has to go!

Jewface isn't a thing. And Eddie always had a bit of social commentary in his work.

Also, I take it you've never seen White Like Me?

Spoiler

 

[Sassy Colin]

Germans episode of Fawlty Towers gone.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

Germans episode of Fawlty Towers gone.

It's been taken off UKTV (and maybe Netflix?) because the version of the episode they had up says the N-word a bunch of times. The BBC edited the racial slurs out their version (with Cleese's blessing) years ago.

By all reports, it looks like it's down whilst they make the edits and the edited version will go back up in due course. The headline reporting is garbage journalism designed to rile people up and further a 'PC Gone Mad' narrative by suggesting that the reason it's come down is because of the war joke.

 

[sullydnl]

It's been taken off UKTV (and maybe Netflix?) because the version of the episode they had up says the N-word a bunch of times. The BBC edited the racial slurs out their version (with Cleese's blessing) years ago.

By all reports, it looks like it's down whilst they make the edits and the edited version will go back up in due course. The headline reporting is garbage journalism designed to rile people up and further a 'PC Gone Mad' narrative by suggesting that the reason it's come down is because of the war joke.

Indeed. The below scene is the problem:

Spoiler: Spoiler due to racial slurs in video title

Not exactly "PC gone mad" to note the problem there. In fact I would guess a lot of people don't remember that scene exactly because it was edited out of the versions they've seen years ago.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Indeed. The below scene is the problem:

Spoiler: Spoiler due to racial slurs in video title

Not exactly "PC gone mad" to note the problem there. In fact I would guess a lot of people don't remember that scene exactly because it was edited out of the versions they've seen years ago.

The thing about that scene is that, whilst there is no doubt that it is offensive, the Major is, and is always portrayed as a bigoted idiot and the way Fawlty looks at him with incredulity, says it all.

What happens where black people refer to other black people using the n word, btw, which happens quite frequently in rap songs etc?

 

[CassiusClaymore]

The thing about that scene is that, whilst there is no doubt that it is offensive, the Major is, and is always portrayed as a bigoted idiot and the way Fawlty looks at him with incredulity, says it all.

What happens where black people refer to other black people using the n word, btw, which happens quite frequently in rap songs etc?

*sigh* how many times must this come up in threads and need explaining? Look at the historical context of white people using that word and you'll have your answer.

 

[Heardy]

Expect Only Fools will get the same treatment. Although, i'm sure i've seen televised re-runs that have had certain scenes with inappropriate dialogue removed.

 

[Sara125]

The thing about that scene is that, whilst there is no doubt that it is offensive, the Major is, and is always portrayed as a bigoted idiot and the way Fawlty looks at him with incredulity, says it all.

What happens where black people refer to other black people using the n word, btw, which happens quite frequently in rap songs etc?

Nothing happens and nothing should happen because the word has been reclaimed by black people.

 

[Sara125]

It's been taken off UKTV (and maybe Netflix?) because the version of the episode they had up says the N-word a bunch of times. The BBC edited the racial slurs out their version (with Cleese's blessing) years ago.

By all reports, it looks like it's down whilst they make the edits and the edited version will go back up in due course. The headline reporting is garbage journalism designed to rile people up and further a 'PC Gone Mad' narrative by suggesting that the reason it's come down is because of the war joke.

Yup. Just mentioned in the ‘cancel culture’ thread that it’s all a ploy to lessen the seriousness of what’s going on atm. I can’t think of a single black person who had even heard of Fawlty Towers before this, yet journalists and bots on twitter who took the bait hook, line and sinker are coming out in droves to complain about snowflakes

 

[b82REZ]

Expect Only Fools will get the same treatment. Although, i'm sure i've seen televised re-runs that have had certain scenes with inappropriate dialogue removed.

In my mind the only times I can think of racial slurs in Only Fools is in the first series when Del Boy refers to "Paki Shops". I've never seen that line on any reruns on TV though and it's only fact I have them on DVD that I know about the line.

I think in cases where a line or a scene could be edited out, that should be the action to take. The reality is that until very recently there has always been an undercurrent of prejudice and racism in all forms of entertainment.

 

[BenitoSTARR]

Might be in the minority on this but I feel like a disclaimer would be more appropriate for some of these shows. I’m not sure that editing and removing them helps.

 

[b82REZ]

Might be in the minority on this but I feel like a disclaimer would be more appropriate for some of these shows. I’m not sure that editing and removing them helps.

I think this will be solution moving forward.

 

[Heardy]

In my mind the only times I can think of racial slurs in Only Fools is in the first series when Del Boy refers to "Paki Shops". I've never seen that line on any reruns on TV though and it's only fact I have them on DVD that I know about the line.

I think in cases where a line or a scene could be edited out, that should be the action to take. The reality is that until very recently there has always been an undercurrent of prejudice and racism in all forms of entertainment.

I bet there are loads of scenes that stick out now if you were to re-watch it.

Racism: As you mention above. The episode with the crash helmets. Del Boy talking about seeing the wife of a sikh guy having a "terrible spot on her forehead." Some of the language just sticks out so much now whereas it was far more "accepted" 25-30 years ago which is crazy looking back.

#metoo: Del Boy pinching Marlene's ass.

I'm sure there's several comments/scenes etc. that would never happen now from a LGBTQ+ perspective as well.

I don't think the writers or the show were intentionally malicious and much of the above would have been seen as "innocent humour." Times have moved on though and from that perspective, certain element haven't aged well.

 

[b82REZ]

I bet there are loads of scenes that stick out now if you were to re-watch it.

Racism: As you mention above. The episode with the crash helmets. Del Boy talking about seeing the wife of a sikh guy having a "terrible spot on her forehead." Some of the language just sticks out so much now whereas it was far more "accepted" 25-30 years ago which is crazy looking back.

#metoo: Del Boy pinching Marlene's ass.

I'm sure there's several comments/scenes etc. that would never happen now from a LGBTQ+ perspective as well.

I don't think the writers or the show were intentionally malicious and much of the above would have been seen as "innocent humour." Times have moved on though and from that perspective, certain element haven't aged well.

Oh I agree, its aged terribly and if I were watching it for the first time today and saw some of these I'd agree it was being racist.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Indeed. The below scene is the problem:

Spoiler: Spoiler due to racial slurs in video title

Not exactly "PC gone mad" to note the problem there. In fact I would guess a lot of people don't remember that scene exactly because it was edited out of the versions they've seen years ago.

But the joke is on the Major - he’s a bigoted old fool representing a type of officer class Englishman of that generation. In the same way the joke is on Basil when he rants about Germans. It’s not like some of Del Boy’s more dated remarks where we are meant to be laughing with him.

 

[Welsh Wonder]

In my mind the only times I can think of racial slurs in Only Fools is in the first series when Del Boy refers to "Paki Shops". I've never seen that line on any reruns on TV though and it's only fact I have them on DVD that I know about the line.

I think in cases where a line or a scene could be edited out, that should be the action to take. The reality is that until very recently there has always been an undercurrent of prejudice and racism in all forms of entertainment.

Uses 'chinkies' with reference to getting chinese food as well iirc

 

[Classical Mechanic]

I bet there are loads of scenes that stick out now if you were to re-watch it.

Racism: As you mention above. The episode with the crash helmets. Del Boy talking about seeing the wife of a sikh guy having a "terrible spot on her forehead." Some of the language just sticks out so much now whereas it was far more "accepted" 25-30 years ago which is crazy looking back.

#metoo: Del Boy pinching Marlene's ass.

I'm sure there's several comments/scenes etc. that would never happen now from a LGBTQ+ perspective as well.

I don't think the writers or the show were intentionally malicious and much of the above would have been seen as "innocent humour." Times have moved on though and from that perspective, certain element haven't aged well.

Even in Peep Show from the mid noughties, in one episode Jez thinks to himself at a wake ‘I’ve never even boffed a ******, I’ve never lived’. No way would that make it in today.

 

[b82REZ]

Even in Peep Show from the mid noughties, in one episode Jez thinks to himself at a wake ‘I’ve never even boffed a ******, I’ve never lived’. No way would that make it in today.

He even blacks up in one episode. I wouldn't say the show is racist, or even attempting to be offensive towards any sort of minorities.

 

[Nialler]

Rising Damp which was/is hysterically funny must be on the danger list, those who are familiar with it will understand, RIGSBY.

 

[SteveJ]

Rising Damp which was/is hysterically funny must be on the danger list, those who are familiar with it will understand, RIGSBY.

Yeah, and yet it's another show that makes utter fools of the racist character. Phillip is everything that Rigsby wants to be.

 

[sullydnl]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Nialler]

Yeah, and yet it's another show that makes utter fools of the racist character. Phillip is everything that Rigsby wants to be.

He sure is !

 

[stevoc]

With all the coverage Blackface has been getting and shows that included it being pulled i've been reading up on it. Stumbled upon the Black and White minstrel show, obviously i was aware there were shows like this in the past but had no idea they carried on until relatively recently. Apparently this show only ended in 78 but carried on as a stage show which was sometimes televised until the late 80's.

Spoiler: Black and White Minstrel Show

Also did i imagine it or was there a British race swap tv show about 15-20 years ago where they took celebrities and made them up to look like a race other than their own?

 

[KirkDuyt]

I loved that show. And surely the whole point of it is that Al, the most offensive character, is a moron.

No ma'am!

Also, Friends, those oversized shirts the men wear, look ridiculous now.

 

[dumbo]

Personally I would perhaps give Fawlty Towers a pass on the major scene. It's a two minute scene in a six hour long show, and the show isn't endorsing the view held by the character. The casual use of the language should be noted though. There is another brief scene when Basil is being treated by a black doctor after a concussion that again isn't necessarily being endorsed by the show but is a depiction of casual racism for the sake of a joke. Manuel is possibly the most offensive thing, the bumbling foreigner being a constant joke throughout the show. I still love the show though.

In contrast I would say that something like Little Britain is an outright racist show. I don't know how you could show much of that stuff again (or how they managed to get away with it first time).

 

[SteveJ]

Is that Trump?

 

[stevoc]

Is that Trump?

Nah Trump does Orangeface.

 

[2 man midfield]

I think context matters. For instance, the Fawlty Towers scene is different to Little Britain. Some people might hear the N-word and think it's far more obviously racist than a couple of people dressing up, but it's about where the intent lies, surely? Even at the time Fawlty Towers was broadcast, this language was wrong and the show is aware of that. That's why we're supposed to be laughing at the major for holding that opinion, and not with him - as you can see by Basil's expression at the end of that clip. A simple disclaimer is probably the correct way to go.

With Little Britain, it's just someone wearing another persons skin colour for comedic effect. Totally get why this would be offensive in this day and age. I also get why, unlike a show made by a commercial channel where you can just choose to not watch it, people would want it removed. Would you as a black person, be happy that your license fee paid for something like that sketch?

 

[stevoc]

I think context matters. For instance, the Fawlty Towers scene is different to Little Britain. Some people might hear the N-word and think it's far more obviously racist than a couple of people dressing up, but it's about where the intent lies, surely? Even at the time Fawlty Towers was broadcast, this language was wrong and the show is aware of that. That's why we're supposed to be laughing at the major for holding that opinion, and not with him - as you can see by Basil's expression at the end of that clip. A simple disclaimer is probably the correct way to go.

With Little Britain, it's just someone wearing another persons skin colour for comedic effect. Totally get why this would be offensive in this day and age. I also get why, unlike a show made by a commercial channel where you can just choose to not watch it, people would want it removed. Would you as a black person, be happy that your license fee paid for something like that sketch?

At the time i thought some of the shows characters were pushing it. But the premise of the show was to parody a selection of people from across modern day Britain circa 2003-2007. How do two white guys play a range of characters from different walks of life in a diverse country like the UK without playing other races?

What would the reaction to the show have been if every single one of the characters representing the people of Britain had been white?

Should they have brought in black/asian actors to play the other parts yes probably. But hindsight is a wonderful thing and to be fair to them they weren't alone around that time in comedy with donning make-up to play other races. I don't think their intention with the show and the characters was to offend people.

 

[2 man midfield]

At the time i thought some of the shows characters were pushing it. But the premise of the show was to parody a selection of people from across modern day Britain circa 2003-2007. How do two white guys play a range of characters from different walks of life in a diverse country like the UK without playing other races?

What would the reaction to the show have been if every single one of the characters representing the people of Britain had been white?

Should they have brought in black/asian actors to play the other parts yes probably. But hindsight is a wonderful thing and to be fair to them they weren't alone around that time in comedy with donning make-up to play other races. I don't think their intention with the show and the characters was to offend people.

I did ask myself the same question tbf, however I thought of Harry and Paul with the Nelson Mandela sketch. I'll link it below if you haven't seen it. If it's just a cast of two, how do you deal with playing other races? Other than just not doing it, it's hard to imagine how it could be done. You can't just bring in a black person to play them for one sketch, it's supposed to be just those two after all.

With Little Britain I get that they're trying to parody mid-2000s Britain, but I think some of the humour was misplaced. The black character in the fat suit, for example. You could make them white and nothing would change, so you can't say the blackface was required artistically like with the Mandela costume. Like I said above, context is important, and I'd be much more willing to look the other way at the Harry Enfield sketch. It dervies comedy from the fact that a well-renowned peaceful and virtuous person like Nelson Mandela is played as a drug pusher. It's that juxtaposition that makes it funny, as the audience is aware of the contrast with his real life persona. The blackface is secondary, just to pull off the look of the character. Acceptable in 2020? Not for me to say, but probably not. With Little Britain, it was poking fun at the fact that 'ha ha, we've put this person in a black suit', which to me seems more offensive.

As for how you tackle that as two white men making a sketch show? I guess you don't, unless you've got a really good reason and are prepared to argue it.

Link:

Spoiler

 

[horsechoker]

Would this pass muster

 

[hobbers]

Dont worry, all the good comedy from the past will be erased but at least we'll still have rick and morty.

 

[Gehrman]

Isn't Bojak horseman full of racial stereotypes?

 

[stevoc]

I did ask myself the same question tbf, however I thought of Harry and Paul with the Nelson Mandela sketch. I'll link it below if you haven't seen it. If it's just a cast of two, how do you deal with playing other races? Other than just not doing it, it's hard to imagine how it could be done. You can't just bring in a black person to play them for one sketch, it's supposed to be just those two after all.

With Little Britain I get that they're trying to parody mid-2000s Britain, but I think some of the humour was misplaced. The black character in the fat suit, for example. You could make them white and nothing would change, so you can't say the blackface was required artistically like with the Mandela costume. Like I said above, context is important, and I'd be much more willing to look the other way at the Harry Enfield sketch. It dervies comedy from the fact that a well-renowned peaceful and virtuous person like Nelson Mandela is played as a drug pusher. It's that juxtaposition that makes it funny, as the audience is aware of the contrast with his real life persona. The blackface is secondary, just to pull off the look of the character. Acceptable in 2020? Not for me to say, but probably not. With Little Britain, it was poking fun at the fact that 'ha ha, we've put this person in a black suit', which to me seems more offensive.

As for how you tackle that as two white men making a sketch show? I guess you don't, unless you've got a really good reason and are prepared to argue it.

Link:

Spoiler

I wasn't a huge fan of Little Britain so don't remember all the characters that well. But i'd say they probably could have changed most or maybe even all the non white characters to white and not much would have been lost i agree.

But the BBC in 2002 with giving a young comedy duo (who both happen to be white) a sketch show on national Television featuring parodies of normal British people. Pretty much painted themselves into a corner that they didn't realize, because i suspect if the show had came out with only white characters featured it would have raised a few eyebrows. So to avoid that hurdle they just did black, asian etc. makeup.

I remember the Mandela sketch when it first aired and in context the joke worked. But i don't think there's any context where it could be done these days. In reading up on this topic this week it seems context is irrelevant now, as i've read stories about pictures of coal miners covered in soot and soldiers in camo paint, Mary Poppins with dirt on her face, and a black child stand in actor having his skin darkened to match the main actor, and Zoe Saldana's portrayal of Nina Simone all being criticised for blackface.

 

[2 man midfield]

I wasn't a huge fan of Little Britain so don't remember all the characters that well. But i'd say they probably could have changed most or maybe even all the non white characters to white and not much would have been lost i agree.

But the BBC in 2002 with giving a young comedy duo (who both happen to be white) a sketch show on national Television featuring parodies of normal British people. Pretty much painted themselves into a corner that they didn't realize, because i suspect if the show had came out with only white characters featured it would have raised a few eyebrows. So to avoid that hurdle they just did black, asian etc. makeup.

I remember the Mandela sketch when it first aired and in context the joke worked. But i don't think there's any context where it could be done these days. In reading up on this topic this week it seems context is irrelevant now, as i've read stories about pictures of coal miners covered in soot and soldiers in camo paint, Mary Poppins with dirt on her face, and a black child stand in actor having his skin darkened to match the main actor, and Zoe Saldana's portrayal of Nina Simone all being criticised for blackface.

Like with anything, there's always a group that take things too far. All those examples you mentioned, I'd be surprised if anyone reasonable takes them seriously tbh.

 

[Sparky Rhiwabon]

Just watching Police Academy on Prime. Quite a bit of racist humour on there (not to mention homophobic), how long is this going to last on there?

 

[stevoc]

Like with anything, there's always a group that take things too far. All those examples you mentioned, I'd be surprised if anyone reasonable takes them seriously tbh.

Yeah no doubt most of them were probably just a few people on social media looking for attention. But they made enough noise that it still lead to apologies being issued in most of those cases. Media companies won't be considering context in the current climate, and i don't particularly blame them either as its just not worth the bad PR.

 

[OleBoiii]

Here's my issue with all this: linear TV is dying, so we're practically past the time where whatever is broadcast is "forced" on the viewer.

By all means: don't broadcast racist stuff on linear TV. And if your streaming service has movies/TV shows with racist content, then maybe not put it on the front page(i.e. make it discoverable only by using the search engine). But to remove it entirely is foolish, imo.