Who are the "problem" players.

Silverman

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Ill preface this by saying I think the squad is a shambles and we need to sell the vast majority.

Are there many players that are actually causing problems or are they just not good enough/past it?
Ya hear people saying that they have thrown managers under the bus but it's hard to pinpoint specific players in the squad that are actual bad eggs.

For example, I think Casemiro has a great mentality but his legs are gone and he just isn't up to it but I don't think he's a player casing problems.

What players are the main culprits that are at fault for the mess we're in?
Or is our biggest issue with the squad that they just aren't good enough?
 
Pretty much everyone mate. Keep the young players and Martinez.

Everyone else needs replacing. It's that bad.
 
Silverman said:
Ill preface this by saying I think the squad is a shambles and we need to sell the vast majority.

Are there many players that are actually causing problems or are they just not good enough/past it?
Ya hear people saying that they have thrown managers under the bus but it's hard to pinpoint specific players in the squad that are actual bad eggs.

For example, I think Casemiro has a great mentality but his legs are gone and he just isn't up to it but I don't think he's a player casing problems.

What players are the main culprits that are at fault for the mess we're in?
Or is our biggest issue with the squad that they just aren't good enough?
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It's not dalot either as does show passion on the pitch, the only one that sticks out is rashford and possibly garnacho of late with his reaction to his past two substitution off the pitch but at the same time he was the main threat today and a big reason we got 3 nil up
 
Honestly?

Here’s our “in desperate need list”:

• We need a left back, Luke Shaw can’t be relied upon.
• We need 2 CBs as our pairing from last season cannot be relied upon.
• We need 2 CMs.
• We need at least one winger of genuine quality.
• We need a CF who isn’t a lad learning on the job.
 
Casemiro definitely had a bit of sabotage on his mind with that pen.
 
They fall into three categories for me:
  • Not good enough
  • Don‘t care
  • Not good enough and don’t care
The ones who don’t care are the ones we need to urgently get rid of, as they are a negative influence on the culture of the dressing room, especially for some of our younger, more impressionable players.
 
Ive been one of the biggest critics of our players under other managers. To be fair to this squad, I think most are actually decent types and want to win and the main limitations are ability. Good players, but not the very top, or not top any longer (Eg mctominay, maguire, AWB, Casemiro)

In terms of attitude, Rashford is the standout. He's not a good footballer and only really suits one style of play, which a club like United shouldn't be aiming for. Obviously greenwood and sancho should go but they aren't in squad this year. Martial too of course is done.

In terms of ability or football reasons to move on, but with what seems like a good attitude - mctominay, maguire, awb, antony, eriksen, casemiro, varane, - none of these players should be anything but occasional subs and if not happy then should be sold.

But for all of the awful capitulations, Im not sure attitude has been the problem. Some weak mentality yes, but that can be changed by some real leaders.
 
We seem to have this thread every season, even thought the playing cast changes.
 
Yakuza_devils said:
Martinez is good but too injury prone. He can't be rely on to build a team.
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And however much he makes up for it with passing, there's the simple elephant in the room that you need a dominant header or 2 in the team.
 
SalfordRed18 said:
Casemiro definitely had a bit of sabotage on his mind with that pen.
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Could not believe that. Thinking the Real Madrid winning mentality will come out and does one of the laziest, most casual, impossible to even envisage it ending up in the net shots ever,
 
Ronaldo. All we had to do was get rid of him and things would be golden.
 
Too many players have issues.
Seems the youngsters will have to take the club forward, while the high earning 'big stars' will stay and run down their contracts, whilst creating issues at the club... Glazers have ruined this club.
 
The problem players are Varane, Lindelof, Maguire, Evans in defence. In midfield it's Casemiro, Erikson, Amrabat, McT.

They're not bad players as such but when you are trying to play fast transition, high press, high energy football they simply aren't cut out for it. They're either too old or too slow or too unskillful.

But this is the cost of playing counter attacking Oleball and then trying to modernise into something better. It takes time and money. ETH has fecked it by creating an injury crisis from over training, but even if he had not there would be huge problems.
 
Sandikan said:
And however much he makes up for it with passing, there's the simple elephant in the room that you need a dominant header or 2 in the team.
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Exactly. We have had the same problem previously with another Dutch manager LVG who prefer to put Daley Blind as CB. He was good in passing and holding the ball but PL is different animal for CB. Physicality is one of the most important criteria.
 
I honestly think most of our squad isn't good enough.

There are only three players that I'm 100% confident could play for us in a title winning team. Mainoo, Garnacho, and Bruno. Dalot is maybe. He has performed this season more often than not, but I'm not 100% convinced by him. I think Shaw and Martinez are good players, but their availability has been a massive problem.

Two of our worst players this season have been Rashford and Casemiro. You would expect them be carrying the team, but they have been dead weights all season. Casemiro just took one of the worst penalties I've ever seen and he's a 5 time CL winner. If the guy you should be counting on is garbage, the team is in huge trouble.

I don't think the team has many 'bad eggs'. If there are any, the only one is really Rashford. They're just not good enough.
 
I'd keep Bayindir, Kambwala, Martinez, Shaw, Malacia, Mainoo, Mct as backup, Garnacho, Hojlund, Bruno, not fussed about the rest.
I think there's probably around 15 players who i'd happily see out of the club.
 
Attitude:
- Rashford: what can be said that hasn’t already?
- Casemiro: seemed to be a man on a mission last season but just looks disinterested this year
- Martial: likewise, clear and obvious
- Bruno: tries so much he can end up being a detrimental force for the team. Also sees the red mist far too eagerly

Talent:
- Dalot: not good enough as an attacking FB to be first choice, not good enough defensively to be the defensive backup
- AWB: not any kind of attacking force and, despite his 1-on-1 ability, makes silly defensive mistakes
- McT: a perfectly fine bench warmer, but not to be relied upon
- Lindelof: a perfectly fine bench warmer, but not to be relied upon
- Eriksen: a perfectly fine bench warmer, but not to relied upon

Both:
- Maguire: not good enough and has the fragility of a mouse whenever in any kind of pressure

Other:
Shaw: Doesn’t look like he can be relied upon for 35-50 games a season
Varane:

Those to build around:
Onana: starting to come to his own after the very shaky start. Still a little ‘t-rexy’ for my liking

Martinez: when fit he’s Top 3 CBs in the league

Mainoo: class, the kind you build a midfield around

Garnacho

Hojlund
 
Rashford, Antony, Greenwood and Sancho are expensive forwards who are average or bad for us most of the times. Having them on our books stops us from improving those positions, both because they are expensive and take up slots.

Shaw, Varane and possibly Martinez and Mount because of fitness issues. They are thought of as starters but don't have the fitness to be relied on. That means we have to rotate often when it's out of the manager's control to rotate and that affects stability and planning. It also means we have to play worse players.

Casemiro is a jogging corpse of a player.

That's 6-7 supposed starters I've named leaving Højlund (who should be our 2nd option), Bruno, Mainoo, Onana and Dalot. Garnacho has taken over for Antony so that's one part of the problem partly solved and Maguire has arguably played himself back into the team or at least played himself into being one of the 3 stable CBs we play.

That's a huge problem. We lack a whole spine of players and a more consistest #9.
 
Sandikan said:
We seem to have this thread every season, even thought the playing cast changes.
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It has not actually changed much since Ole. Look at todays starting 11

You have Casemiro Hojlund and some kids (Garnacho and Mainoo) everyone else played under Ole
 
The "don't care"/attitude list is actually quite small, contrary to popular claims here. The issue for most of the squad is lack of quality, tactical mismatch, or mismanagement more than anything else.

And injury proneness for quite a few of them, of course.
 
Regulus Arcturus Black said:
Gotta say, the bolded is an absolutely INSANE take after how he has come back this season.
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But that’s not what I was talking about.

I’m talking about him, on the pitch, showing no composure, no valid decision making, just trying to rush to the ball like a fly to a neon light. Then, if he gets to the ball, again, no composure, just swinging a limb at it in the thin hope of getting it clear.
 
The vast majority of the squad simply aren’t good enough and/or durable enough. I don’t know if there is a single player at this stage of their career I would trust to play at the level (and stay fit) to be a starter in a title winning or challenging team.

We have likes of Mainoo and Garnacho who might get to that level, Shaw and Martinez could resolve their issues and Dalot seems to be on an upward directory somehow.

The same would have been said about Arsenal not so long ago so it can change but there needs to be an acceptance of how much work is required and a concerted effort to make sweeping changes over next 2-3 years.
 
Chairman Steve said:
They fall into three categories for me:
  • Not good enough
  • Don‘t care
  • Not good enough and don’t care
The ones who don’t care are the ones we need to urgently get rid of, as they are a negative influence on the culture of the dressing room, especially for some of our younger, more impressionable players.
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Add injury prone to your list.
If a players can't be fit enough to play more 10 games for two season straight, get rid.
 
Cassidy said:
It has not actually changed much since Ole. Look at todays starting 11

You have Casemiro Hojlund and some kids (Garnacho and Mainoo) everyone else played under Ole
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Aye that’s the big worry, 3 of the back 4 played under Ole/Ragnick, 2 midfielders and 1 wide forward.
More than half the outfield team. Add 2 kids to that and a 21 year old CF learning his trade and it’s not surprising we don’t look much different from 2021-2022.

We need to finally go all in one Summer and get in 6 first teamers. Have the option of the injury hit lads not being automatic first choice.
 
Silverman said:
Ill preface this by saying I think the squad is a shambles and we need to sell the vast majority.

Are there many players that are actually causing problems or are they just not good enough/past it?
Ya hear people saying that they have thrown managers under the bus but it's hard to pinpoint specific players in the squad that are actual bad eggs.

For example, I think Casemiro has a great mentality but his legs are gone and he just isn't up to it but I don't think he's a player casing problems.

What players are the main culprits that are at fault for the mess we're in?
Or is our biggest issue with the squad that they just aren't good enough?
Click to expand...

Casmiro, Varane, Eriksen are all past it.

Maguire, Lindelof, AWB, McTominay aren't good enough for this level.

Rashford and Bruno are poor pieces to build a team around for different reasons.
 
I don't believe many are problem players, there are likely a small number of dickheads but in any group of 20-30 people some of them are going to be dickheads. The reality is that they're just not good enough, we don't have a single player who would be an important player for a serious title contending side and the vast majority of our starting 11 would be the worst player in City, Arsenal or Liverpool's teams if they were transplanted into them. Add to that we then have a manager who clearly isn't up to it, as evidenced by his insane tactics, the constant injuries and his belief that signing a lot of these substandard players would work at this level.

The hope is that the youngers (Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund) have shown a lot of promise this season but none of the more experienced players, even the ones people like like Martinez, are at the level of their counterparts at the top 3.
 
Rashford has to be first out the door. He thinks he is a second Maradona. It's no coincidence that he is there since LVG and he has downed tools on each and every manager at the end. Madness is repeating mistakes and expecting different results. Get him out.

Centre Half: three of Maguire, Evans, Varane and Lindelof should go. Varane contract is up and we would be nuts to give him the same money. Maguire for all his faults has some value. Lindelof is a decent 5th choice centre half and Evans is a good club man. One elite centre half should come in and possibly a Tosin on free or someone like Kilman to replace three of the four listed. Willy kambawala is a good addition.

Full backs I would get rid of Wan Bissaka. Good 1 v1 but not United Standard. Also Brandon Williams should be sold. We can't have a situation of having Luke Shaw out for long periods so that needs to be looked at.

Midfield. Casemiro and Eriksen both their legs are gone. We would be better off with any youth player instead of them. Amrabat hasn't done it either. Mctominay like Maguire has some value if we decide to sell or if we keep. He is British so one of the eight home grown would be covered. We need a very good 6. We have a number of players that can play 8 and 10. Donny and Mejbri should be let go / sold. I really like Amad how is he not getting more game time there must be a reason.

As stated Rashford has to go. Add Greenwood (great player but no chance he returns). Add Sancho and Martial.

We need a striker that compliments Hojlund. A Cavani type would be ideal. Would work for team but would leave enough game time for Rasmus.

I don't envy whoever will making these calls but some are so obvious and should have been done ages ago. The biggest decision is on the manager, football has been poor we play in moments, no pattern or rhythm to our play. I would give him one more year partially because there isn't a great selection of managers available and also to see what he can do if the players who are rotten are gotten rid of.
 
A bit unnecessary criticism here. We don’t really need to dish the whole squad for this. 3-4 players are the main reason why the whole tempo of the team looks off.

Players enable each other and right now, there’s some blocking others from unlocking there potential.

our wingers, especially Rashford waste chances one after the other. That just affects any output from the midfielder on the left or Hojlund.

Our left side of defence including Maguire and AWB are slow in possession, almost like they can’t seem to decide the next move quickly enough. This slows up the whole play or any edge we can get playing out from the back.

Our other CM apart from Mainoo generally has no to little close control and ball playing ability, that just disrupts any chance of creating a smooth pattern of play.

Left side is the core attacking threat for us for some years now, and this season the whole left spine is dysfunctional that affects the whole team.

Need to get these 4 positions right atleast so we can see some consistency and pattern of play.
 
Rashford
Casemiro
Antony
Sancho
Evans

All need selling

I would have put Maguire in that camp but he has been pretty good the past couple of months and we really can’t afford to be buying more than one CB this summer.

I would also buy a new LB RB CDM and winger and a CF.

we also need a DLP and a mother number 10

jeez we need a lot
 
Lee565 said:
It's not dalot either as does show passion on the pitch, the only one that sticks out is rashford and possibly garnacho of late with his reaction to his past two substitution off the pitch but at the same time he was the main threat today and a big reason we got 3 nil up
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I understand Garnacho thou. If the fans can see it then surely Garnacho can also see it. He and other young players are getting subbed not because they are playing bad but because ETH doesn’t want to take off Rashford who is usually our worse player.
 
Not kidding we need around 5-6 actually good players to replace the dead wood that has accumulated and started to rot. AWB, Maguire, Casemiro, Martial, Rashford even Fernandes all need to go. We can make some good money off the latter two.
 
Pretty clear who some of the problem players are, starting with Rashford who is the worst offender for me. It's also clear that many of the others aren't anywhere near the required level.

Only players I would be keen to keep, and not necessarily as starters:

Onana - his attitude is good and I think he has potential with a decent defence.

Dalot - decent player mostly, probably bench.

Martinez - seems broken but if he can sort himself out then he could be a starter in a top side still.

Mainoo - enormous potential. Hopefully won't get brought down by EtH and the bad apples.

Hojlund - potentially top striker if he keeps learning. Ideally with quality players.

Garnacho - probably bench but potentially first team if he improves and learns decision making etc.

Amad - actually think he has massive potential but doesn't get to play. He'll go elsewhere and do great.

Bruno - contentious in a way, but I think that he'd look great in a good side. Pop him into the current Madrid side and he looks top class every match I reckon.
 
All of them.

The whole thing needs tearing up and starting over, the players ave to prove they deserve to be at Utd. They aren't doing that now and unless they start, then I wouldn't spare one player from the cull over the next couple of years.
 
I think the big problem is the quality of the players and not that they're 'toxic' or bad influences. You could maybe argue that Rashford hasn't covered himself in glory this season with his behavior but if you want to play a high intensity type of football with pressing, energy, good fitness, players that can cover a lot of ground then...yeah, there's a problem there isn't there? Ralf Rangnick said the technique of the players wasn't bad but the physical profile was poor and although i can't help but feel he was wrong about the technical evaluation he was spot on about the energy levels.

EtH is a separate issue for me. We've not had a single title challenge since Fergie left and have only hit 80+ points in one season since then. We keep tolerating average/decent players for so long and then we're surprised when a new manager comes in and fails with them again, usually after one or two good seasons where they scrape top 4. Not only that, but we add to this list of players with some really poor signings. Looking ahead i'd be surprised if the thinking wasn't along the lines of:

Keep/evaluate later: Onana, Dalot, Martinez, Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, Mount (not writing him off after one season), Bruno, Malacia (same reason as Mount), Amad

Too unfit, old, injury prone/unreliable: Casemiro, Varane, Eriksen, Shaw, Evans (stop-gap signing i know) Martial (leaving anyway)

Not good enough or the right profile for the system: McTominay, Maguire, AwB, Antony, Rashford, Lindelof


It doesn't have to be doom and gloom: there are players there you can work with and maybe one or two you could make a case for staying- like making Shaw into a centre back/left back cover, but there's a lot of work to be done shifting some of them, especially if you want more energy and reliability in the team. It doesn't matter who the manager is you're not getting close to winning a league title with this squad. Top 4 is 50/50.
 
Silverman said:
What players are the main culprits that are at fault for the mess we're in?
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Probably none of them, in all honesty.

People are completely misdiagnosing our issues if they think you can scapegoat a few players, remove them from the team, bring in some £50m replacements, and actually expect to see any real improvement. Those new players would likely face the exact same problems the current players do.
 
RORY65 said:
I don't believe many are problem players, there are likely a small number of dickheads but in any group of 20-30 people some of them are going to be dickheads. The reality is that they're just not good enough, we don't have a single player who would be an important player for a serious title contending side and the vast majority of our starting 11 would be the worst player in City, Arsenal or Liverpool's teams if they were transplanted into them. Add to that we then have a manager who clearly isn't up to it, as evidenced by his insane tactics, the constant injuries and his belief that signing a lot of these substandard players would work at this level.

The hope is that the youngers (Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund) have shown a lot of promise this season but none of the more experienced players, even the ones people like like Martinez, are at the level of their counterparts at the top 3.
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Totally agree. If I was in charge of recruitment at Arsenal, Citeh or 'pool and they said take your pick from our team as a man for man replacement, I'd struggle to justify it. Probably Garnacho & Mainoo.

We must have very poor scouting to keep getting these midfielders that are only lasting one season in the more physical Premier league and / or have a poor handle on individual fitness programmes to ensure they meet the required level of fitness both at the baseline level and for their specific roles.

SJR did 26 miles in 4.5 hours? Can we get him a squad number?
 
Nearly every player is a problem really. I'm judging by the standard that we want to be up there with Arsenal/Liverpool/City this season - and for us to be at that level we need to be looking at a huge overhaul.

Our players fall into one of 4 categories.

- Injury prone
- Old and past their prime
- Not good enough
- Unsuited to a team who wants to keep possession

The only players I'd exclude from those categorising are players who young/inexperienced enough that they may not be elite right now but it's worth seeing if they get there in following seasons (Mainoo, Garnacho, Hojlund, Amad etc.)

We have a few senior players who it would be worth keeping or giving another season to since they've been unlucky with injuries - Martinez, Dalot etc. but there's around 15 players I wouldn't be disappointed to see sold.
 
At the moment, Rashford, Casemiro and AWB. Getting rid of these three needs to be a priority this summer.

We could do with moving Varane and Evans on too if we can afford to sign two CBs.
 
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