Why are we avoiding signing world class players?

Red_toad

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Avoid?
a) it's not as easy as some people to sign any player.
b) as United won't pay the genuine top players 600k a week like Real and Barce do, plus the Government won't change tax laws to help the club attract players.
c) care to name a few genuine World class player who've changed clubs recently? Then go research the details and see how much it screwed the buying club up once Covid hit.
 

KD6-3.7

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Very rarely do those genuine world class players ever leave their clubs. Take City for example they have had numerous world class players in their prime yet none of them have ever wanted to leave. Same with Madrid, Bayern, Barcelona.

Even under Ferguson especially towards the end stopped even going for them because he knew we couldn’t compete.
 

Acrobat7

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For the same reason that i avoid dating supermodels.
 

Jezpeza

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Just not really what we ever did. In the Fergie years we developed youth, signed the best premier league players from other smaller teams, and we also signed the best young british players like carrick, rooney, ferdinand. Dont know why. Thanks to the Neymar transfer, a ‘world class’ player now costs £200m, so not likely to start now
 

bond19821982

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We are not signing world class player - says a fan of Manchester united.

Pogba, Bruno, Sanchez , Lukaku, Di Maria, Lukaku,Mata in recent years. Sir Alex was a species , still he signed Rio, Ruud,Rooney in the last decade.

Bit rich!
 

RedDevilzFox

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Biggest Club in world football but not as big as we think we are. Riiiight....
Stop with this delusional line of thinking that we are the biggest club in world football. I am not into self loathing but there is not a single meaningful metric that we can use to say we are bigger than Real Madrid. Let alone Barca or Bayern Munich or AC Milan ..... European Trophies (CL) matter for a claim like that and even Ajax have more of them than we do. I don't see Ajax going around telling everyone anything crazy like that. Right now we are probably the biggest club in selling pot noodle sponsorship deals. Its certainly not anything we've done on the pitch.
 

Champagne Football

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Under Jose we saw how disastrous it can be to try and quickly spend your way out of trouble. Not too long ago players like Rashford, Shaw, Pogba were considered not good enough by Jose and therefor we would need at least another 500 million spending to compete with City. This was the nonsense a charlatan like Jose was trying to feed everyone to mask his own failings.

Developing players is the way to go. Young hungry players who dream of being superstars for Man Utd. Not ageing stars who are only coming for the money like Alexis Sanchez etc. We will never be a Madrid or PSG paying 500,000 a week for players. But to have another Class of 92 come though the youth system is much harder these days. In the 90's a Foden or a Sancho probably would have chosen Man Utd over City.
 

Bebestation

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Partly because fans have a misunderstanding of top class players.

They might not be world class but look at how our fans were drooling over Thomas Partey and Thiago. Now the fans have suddenly all turned quiet when they have had average seasons like they never put Ole under gun point for not signing these type of players.
 

rollingstoned1

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Not that many move in that category anyway, we actually sign as many as we ought to considering our size. Just because a few didn't work out doesn't mean they were washed up or past it.
 

thepolice123

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Terrible OP.

Probably thinking of Galactico-type signings which is completely ridiculous.
 

FattyFooty

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Van Der Sar, Ruud, Rooney and Ferdinand.

Where all greats or world class when they got here.
 

Jim Beam

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Because our policy and Ed exhibition of buying established, big name signings backfired spectacularly? Buying players who are about to hit their peak and go up a level is the way to go and always been. Like Bruno, or unfortunately many examples for Liverpool. Especially in times where there is a worldwide crisis but transfer fees remain crazier then ever.
 

Bondi77

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Not just now, even during Fergie we rarely went for best players in the world. Only Veron, Sanchez, Pogba and RVP can go in that category. And it is not that we don't have reputation and money. We just spend it on other players
Are you disappointed with that? My opinion that top players win you trophies. And we at this moment have only one (2 if you count Bruno) and he (Pogba) wants to go.
Meanwhile there are rumours how Mbappe will be available for 120mil this summer or free next summer. We are not a club who is even mentioned about that. Ramos will be free this summer and i doubt that we will go for him. Haaland rejected us because of Dortmund and now i don't think we will go in bidding war. If Kane will want out this summer, again i don't think that we will be serious contender in signing him.

I think that we must make some transfer statement this summer. To show that we are still top dog around.
And out of the three you mentioned only RVP delivered.
We tended under early Fergie days to buy the best young British and Irish talent and make them into really good or world class players but in later Fergie days he was hamstrung by the owners so it was a lot more hit and miss.
I think one big mistake some make is that they look at how a player performs in a certain league and they take it for granted that the player automatically carries that form over to his new club and new enviroment and while it sometimes does happen I think the percentages will show that it is more likely that it will not and then it is a costly mistake.
 

Thiagoal

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United make world class players! I would guess Veron, ADM, Falcao would all have been considered world class but totally flopped so much happier buying under the radar future stars
 

GazTheLegend

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Wow. That OP.

let me be the first to say welcome to COVID
It's been interesting in many ways seeing how few fans are capable of altering their world view with covid in mind. The people who still speak about sums like £120million for a player and that sort of thing, without being able to rationalise the fact that clubs like Barcelona and Madrid are now pushing a -billion Euro's- worth of debt, and that clubs like ourselves have lost - at this point - £100-£200m in revenue.
Having a football club SURVIVE
the pandemic is going to be a minor miracle at this point. I believe the likes of Stoke are in a hundred million of debt themselves.

most transfers, even for world class players, are going to be free this summer at best. There will be a radical reimagining of fees for players within 2 years. Particularly Juventus are in trouble. They gambled on being ultra competitive by overstretching their resources - but couldn't even pay their players during the pandemic. That says to me that they simply can't afford another year like this and if the various governments don't get involved, and my feeling at the moment is that they won't, that these "world class players" will simply be let go for nothing like James Rodriguez and Cavani were.
 

GazTheLegend

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We're a bit of an awkward club. We're not as big as we think we are and as a club we can't really offer players much outside of money.

I think some of the Caf really need to travel the world sometime. :lol:
Spot on. If you don't realise how big Manchester United are worldwide you need to get out a bit. Doesn't matter what -continent- you go to, there's a sizeable support. Lots of kids grow up in Africa, Asia and America dreaming about playing for Man Utd. I will never forget going to Kuwait in the early 2000's and hearing people talking about Scholes and Beckham on the local radio there, completely blew my mind that my Trafford club from the North West had found its way into people's hearts and minds there :lol:
 

BrilliantOrange

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Unpopular opinion...

Real topclass players didnt choose United over other topclubs because real topclass players want to win prizes and the opportunity to win prizes have seemed quite far away for us in recent years...
 

BrilliantOrange

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Spot on. If you don't realise how big Manchester United are worldwide you need to out a bit. Doesn't matter what -continent- you go to, there's a sizeable support. Lots of kids grow up in Africa, Asia and America dreaming about playing for Man Utd.
You are 100% right.. But als kids who are like 15-20 now - when you are in the peak of your football obsessed years usually, I think arent really fascinated by United as there have been way more attractive teams in the past 5 years, who won more prizes and had more appealing players...

So I do think for a certain generation of kids, United isnt the magical club it has been for the 20 years before that..
 

GazTheLegend

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You are 100% right.. But als kids who are like 15-20 now - when you are in the peak of your football obsessed years usually, I think arent really fascinated by United as there have been way more attractive teams in the past 5 years, who won more prizes and had more appealing players...

So I do think for a certain generation of kids, United isnt the magical club it has been for the 20 years before that..
You don't have to go far to find players from abroad playing in the prem that say they were man Utd fans growing up.
Christian Pulisic is one for a start.
 

BrilliantOrange

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You don't have to go far to find players from abroad playing in the prem that say they were man Utd fans growing up.
Christian Pulisic is one for a start.
Obviously.. so ofcourse Im not stating United isnt a worldclass club and Im nog saying United doesnt have a lot of appeal abroad and all over the world..

Im just saying that I think the sentiment around the club has changed in recent years compared to the SAF years, and that this might have an affect on the way teenager who grow up watching football look at the club United...
 

Josep Dowling

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Let’s be honest we can’t even negotiate decent value for okay players. What the hell do you think we need to offer to sign world class players?

Also Pogba just isn’t world class. A world class player is a match winner, or creator practically every game. If they have a bad game they still have one moment of magic. Pogba makes far too many mistakes and so inconsistent.

We also can’t offer world class players guaranteed Champions League in recent seasons let alone trophies. A player probably looks at how City steam roll everything and thinks what’s the point of going United anyway. May as well go Bayern, Juventus, PSG or one of the big two in Spain. Guaranteed league title every season and a decent chance of the Champions League. We can’t offer any of that these days, and still miles off it. We probably need 4-5 top players to really challenge and I say that every season for 8 years. The board doesn’t do what is required to seriously challenge for trophies.
 

golden_blunder

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It's been interesting in many ways seeing how few fans are capable of altering their world view with covid in mind. The people who still speak about sums like £120million for a player and that sort of thing, without being able to rationalise the fact that clubs like Barcelona and Madrid are now pushing a -billion Euro's- worth of debt, and that clubs like ourselves have lost - at this point - £100-£200m in revenue.
Having a football club SURVIVE
the pandemic is going to be a minor miracle at this point. I believe the likes of Stoke are in a hundred million of debt themselves.

most transfers, even for world class players, are going to be free this summer at best. There will be a radical reimagining of fees for players within 2 years. Particularly Juventus are in trouble. They gambled on being ultra competitive by overstretching their resources - but couldn't even pay their players during the pandemic. That says to me that they simply can't afford another year like this and if the various governments don't get involved, and my feeling at the moment is that they won't, that these "world class players" will simply be let go for nothing like James Rodriguez and Cavani were.
Correct. We will be VERY lucky if we get one bought marquee player. We need to reset our expectations at least temporarily.
Agents like Riola need to temper the selling clubs too. Hopefully the buying clubs will tell him that they can’t afford these fees anymore on his little tour with Haaland
 

HTG

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Your club is avoiding these players in the same way I‘m avoiding Barbara Palvin.
 

markhughes

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How many top world class players actually come to the Premier League for any club? In their absolute prime...

Perhaps mainland Europe is just more appealing than our wee island? In terms of culture and weather I mean.
 

sparx99

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Even then the majority of transfers are within the same league or from smaller clubs to the big teams.

Barca signed De Jong recently. Juventus signed De Ligt recently. We signed Bruno recently. These are all similar level transfers from smaller leagues (Dutch/Portuguese) into Spanish, English and Italian leagues.

Real Madrid and Barcelona don’t make that many ‘galactico’ world class signings either. Toni Kroos only left Bayern because of a contract dispute and he wasn’t the superstar he became. Modric and Bale moving to Madrid isn’t any different than Berbatov and Carrick moving to Utd except they were ultimately better players.

It’s why it was such a waste of everybody’s time when we were going after Fabregas, Varane, Sergio Ramos, Muller when they had already joined one of the big boys. Instead we could have targeted the kind of players City did. Silva and Aguero playing for Valencia and Atletico(pre them winning things) and Kompany playing in Belgium. Look at Liverpool as well; Van Dijk & Mane from Southampton. Alisson and Salah from Roma.

Bruno should be the exact transfer we are aiming for. A player who is performing brilliantly in a lesser league ready for a big move or a player doing really well in the PL at a lesser team.
 

nokillingmoths

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Rio ferdinand
Fabien barthez
Wayne rooney
Ruud van nistelrooy
Andy cole
Carlos tevez
Dimitar berbatov

Were all considered amazing players / world class when we signed them. Obvs Rooney was a youngster but everyone knew he was going to be a ridiculously good player.

I am sure there are probably others as well.

And if we are saying none of them were world class then no one in thr prem signs World class players.
 

RedDevilzFox

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Your club is avoiding these players in the same way I‘m avoiding Barbara Palvin.
Quite right.

We aren't avoiding anything. If Neymar wanted to come to United we will move mountains to make it happen. Its just that we've never been able to attract that caliber of players. Partly because living in Manchester isn't exactly very attractive and partly because those players have better options.
 

Beachryan

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Van Der Sar, Ruud, Rooney and Ferdinand.

Where all greats or world class when they got here.
Erm, no. That'd be the VDS that was washed out at Fulham? The Ruud who had only played in the Eriedevise and been out for a year with a cruciate? The Rooney who had 1 professional season in him and was about 12 years old?

United have never been a galactico club. Fergie's success was built on augmenting a solid team with an occasional player that was crushing it in the premier league. The club was about Fergie, not invididual players.

Very few, if any, teams have had great success buying 'world class' players. Even the galacticos didn't win as much as they should have.

Imo, it's about how difficult it is to be world class. Once you've achieved it, it's almost impossible to maintain it. Almost no professional footballers do when they change clubs/environments. Often looking world class is a delicate blend of the player, the system, his teammates and even where in the world he is. When you change some of that, it very rarely works out.
 

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We frequently broke transfer records with SAF and have done so after him as well. Ferdinand was a transfer record fee, and Berbatov was a British transfer record at the time. Pogba was if I'm not mistaken the most expensive signing in the world. These are just off the top of my head. The club spends money, and I'm sure there's a number of other players who we would have bought but they rejected us.
 

Dirty Schwein

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It's not about buying world class players, it's about getting the RIGHT players.

Dias wasnt exactly WC when city got him but that's what they needed to replace Kompany.

Same with VVD to Liverpool.

Bruno to us.

It's about noticing and getting that player who is on the cusp of being world class that is good transfer business.
 

Jaqen H'ghar

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Only Veron, Sanchez, Pogba and RVP can go in that category.
'World class' is hard to define. Of the players you mention only RvP was a clear success. The othersyou mentioned (and the ones you didn't) could be classed as somewhere between OK-ish and unmitigated disasters.

We have usually been more successful with players who were motivated to prove themselves and became 'World class' at the club, be it academy products, promising young players or players with ability moving from smaller teams or leagues. I may be wrong, but I've rationalized it that players making the step up would be more motivated to prove themselves, as well as want to repay the club for showing faith in them, where as players arriving with big reputations may come with a sense of entitlement.

Of course the player would have to have the quality to succeed in the first place. Thorough scouting is a must, but a big name and reputation, not so much
 

RedDevilzFox

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It's not about buying world class players, it's about getting the RIGHT players.

Dias wasnt exactly WC when city got him but that's what they needed to replace Kompany.

Same with VVD to Liverpool.

Bruno to us.

It's about noticing and getting that player who is on the cusp of being world class that is good transfer business.
I think its a little bit of both. As much as I enjoy watching players grow with the club, it would be awesome to get a prime 'Ronaldo' or 'Ronaldinho' to the club once in a while. If anything Real Madrid have proven it works.
 

Dirty Schwein

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I think its a little bit of both. As much as I enjoy watching players grow with the club, it would be awesome to get a prime 'Ronaldo' or 'Ronaldinho' to the club once in a while. If anything Real Madrid have proven it works.
Madrid cycle them until it clicks. Don't think that is sustainable for most teams.

They're doing it right now in fact. Watch Hazard go and someone like Haaland come in next season.

Most other teams get stuck with their flops.
 

devilish

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The term WC is subjective and has a different meaning to everyone. Take Pogba as an example. Some think he's WC while others do not. So this topic is itself flawed. However the issue is pretty simple. Usually by the time a player becomes WC two things happen.

A- The player becomes outrageously expensive. That means zero resale value and the fallout of him not succeeding would be tremendous. Think of Maguire as an example. If Maguire's performance nosedived then the club would be in a bit of a problem as neither Ole nor the club can afford putting the guy on the bench let alone selling him without looking silly.

B- The WC tag is usually built upon reputation. Reputation takes time to built up. That means that a player usually becomes WC by the time he hits 27. That's a problem as that WC player would cost ridiculous money to buy only for him to have 4-5 peak football left in him. Fitness and proper coaching might add mileage to that but it can do nothing to motivate a player to give his best. Which leads to point C

C- How can you motivate a WC player whose already set for life and had won everything under the sun to give his whole for the club even if that might lead to permanent injury? Unless the player is either a true professional or he loves the club then that's very difficult to achieve. Don't forget that WC players had probably already seen enough of football to know how things do end up. That legend they grew up loving had probably already been booted out of the club after growing too old. That teammate he liked might have picked an injury too many and had been booted out as well. That teammate at the academy he liked might have had to retire from football because he was deemed not good enough etc. Meanwhile at this point super agents will be whispering at the player's ear telling him what to do and not to do etc.

Sir Alex had the perfect policy. He would prefer not to spend big money on 26+ players unless he needed to. Meanwhile we developed our own WC players whether from the academy (Scholes, Becks, Giggs etc), local talent (Rio, Rooney etc) or foreign talent (Ronaldo, Stam etc)
 

RedDevilzFox

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Madrid cycle them until it clicks. Don't think that is sustainable for most teams.

They're doing it right now in fact. Watch Hazard go and someone like Haaland come in next season.

Most other teams get stuck with their flops.
The point is, it can be very successful for clubs to land a 'Maradona' or 'Ronaldinho' once in a while. Even from a commercial standpoint. And its not like Man United don't have money to spend or haven't spent historically. We just can't land a talent of that level because they tend to gravitate towards Spain/Italy over England. Clearly the model has worked for Real/Barca in recent memory and Italian clubs back in the 80s and 90s when they were hot.

England just never gets the top talent on its shores. For context, England has only had 1 FIFA World player of the year in the entire history, that too CR7 who grew at United. Italy and Spain have had many. The reason being the true top talent doesn't come to England.
 

hobbers

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Pogba, Bruno, Sanchez , Lukaku, Di Maria, Lukaku,Mata in recent years.
The only arguably world class players there, at the point of us signing them, were Pogba and Di Maria.

Sanchez was totally burned out the season before we signed him. Lukaku has always been a million miles away from world class. Mata was frozen out at Chelsea for a season.

With Di Maria, Sanchez and Mata in each case we were going after big names who were rejects at their current clubs, for one reason or another.