Well? Obviously we can't, Liverpool and City concede goals for fun too. Barca got 27 put past them by Bayern who had 4 put past them by Hoffenheim last week.
Why can teams no longer defend?
- Thread starter NinjaFletch
- Start date
Football is pretty much non contact with the crazy peno's and shit being given. Defenders are scared shitless and any little contact see's a pen. Its becoming basketball with feet.
Teams haven't had a pre-season that's all
This
Top teams are not fit, no match fitness nor sharpness
Villa can. They try to play football but don't feck about in front of their own goal. Usually helps.
Social distancing measurements leave holes in defences.
A mix of things. More emphasis on higher lines and pressing leaving defenders exposed, fewer good defenders (somewhat system driven too), a really hectic schedule with teams out of sync with one another and I think no crowd has an impact on the intensity of games too.
Alan Hansen would be losing his shit if he was on MOTD, bless him.
It's a longer term trend, though I would argue.
My personal feeling is that the high pressing style teams try to play leads to big blow outs when things do go wrong.
Pool, City and Barca have suspect defenders, not really that good at defending. Their defenses rely on individuals and attacks to save them out.
Bayern play high line, high risk football - they're bound to face clinical teams who will exploit the huge spaces and open defense better... and seems they did.
If City, us and Liverpool are conceding 4's and 5's in December then its a longer term trend. Not 4 league games into the season
Well it's been happening from before this season, too.
You might be on to something here. It's a strange game these days, it feels very different to the game I grew up with, but I suppose every generation could say that.
What games did us and City concede 4 in last season?
Enough of that. Every team went through the same thing. Every team.
- Tactical development in the last 20 years has reached the conclusion that functioning attack > good defending. The good old saying that "defenses win you championships" is outdated, high scoring teams generally do better nowadays.
- No pre-season and lack of match fitness + overplaying of players combines badly with high pressing defenses (which basically all the top teams do).
- VAR is helping attackers a lot. Pens galore and ultra conservative defenders.
- No pre-season and lack of match fitness + overplaying of players combines badly with high pressing defenses (which basically all the top teams do).
- VAR is helping attackers a lot. Pens galore and ultra conservative defenders.
Yeah something weird is going on. We see teams getting destroyed much more recently and high scores in the PL.
Palace had like 4 friendly games before they played us so no every team didn't go through the same thing
So they can attack but they can’t defend?
match fitness has nothing to do with it
Are they even doing full coaching sessions anymore?
So many awful penalties given away these days for tackles that aren't necessary, but maybe it was always like this and for some reason it's just more noticeable.
The penalty Spurs conceded against us was pretty ridiculous; Martial was at an angle where he would have to hit a very good shot to beat Lloris but the Spurs player just takes him out. Think last season they did a similar foul vs Rashford for a stonewall penalty against Spurs. Defenders don't seem to assess the threat well enough. If the player is through on goal and the angle is good I can understand the desperation but if you trust your goalkeeper when the forward is at a difficult angle then there's no need to dive in.
The penalty Spurs conceded against us was pretty ridiculous; Martial was at an angle where he would have to hit a very good shot to beat Lloris but the Spurs player just takes him out. Think last season they did a similar foul vs Rashford for a stonewall penalty against Spurs. Defenders don't seem to assess the threat well enough. If the player is through on goal and the angle is good I can understand the desperation but if you trust your goalkeeper when the forward is at a difficult angle then there's no need to dive in.
Pre-season is all about fitness, sharpness and shape, no preseason coupled with the congested fixture list of fitting the league cup ties in means all that's being done once the season started is recovery work in between games
The usual excuses and reasons will come out. But a large majority of these mistakes are unforced..
Maguire earlier with that disgrace of a back header. Baily passing the ball to a Spurs player.
Now in this match we’ve had Van Dijk block a shot as if the ball was made of lava and had Adrien pass the ball to a Villa player four minutes into the game.
what do any of these errors have to do with not having a pre season, modern day football, high lines or Var.
People are always trying to make excuses for players when they’re just simply playing shit and being shit at what they’re supposed to be doing. Just call a spade a spade for once.
Maguire earlier with that disgrace of a back header. Baily passing the ball to a Spurs player.
Now in this match we’ve had Van Dijk block a shot as if the ball was made of lava and had Adrien pass the ball to a Villa player four minutes into the game.
what do any of these errors have to do with not having a pre season, modern day football, high lines or Var.
People are always trying to make excuses for players when they’re just simply playing shit and being shit at what they’re supposed to be doing. Just call a spade a spade for once.
I think it's down to there being empty stadiums, teams are definitely playing less cautiously without a crowd keeping players on their toes
Influence of Italian football down the drain. Rock and roll football is a thing now. Will all go down the shitter again in a couple of years when a complete nobody wins the CL playing pragmatic, defensively excellent football like Porto and Greece in 04. Oh and there’s no top centre-backs anymore.
I think there are some good reasons in this thread, and you could imagine a combination of them culminating in less settled back fives, but I have to agree today has been a smorgasbord of dreadful individual mistakes on top of some poor system malfunctions. No-one comes out of it with much credit and it'll be interesting to see if these ridiculous goalfests continue.
I think there are two primary reasons here:
First, is obviously lack of pre-season. Defence, as we know, is a collective effort just like pressing. If even one player switches off, it's going to end up with a great chance or a goal. Additionally, it requires defenders to get used to each other's positioning. While these defensive partnerships have played with each other historically, it does take time for them to get re-acclimitized to their partner's positions. And that's what we are seeing here. For the weaker sides, they generally defendd deep and defend with quite a few men behind the ball and that helps them somewhat that way, as one's errors can be negated quite quickly by someone else. But that's not the case with the bigger sides.
Second is, I really feel that the current play style of playing short and tidy tiki-taka variant is coming to an end. Teams have figured that direct football can easily cancel this tactic, and we're seeing the rise of a front 3 who are essentially sprinters rather than technically magnificent players.
First, is obviously lack of pre-season. Defence, as we know, is a collective effort just like pressing. If even one player switches off, it's going to end up with a great chance or a goal. Additionally, it requires defenders to get used to each other's positioning. While these defensive partnerships have played with each other historically, it does take time for them to get re-acclimitized to their partner's positions. And that's what we are seeing here. For the weaker sides, they generally defendd deep and defend with quite a few men behind the ball and that helps them somewhat that way, as one's errors can be negated quite quickly by someone else. But that's not the case with the bigger sides.
Second is, I really feel that the current play style of playing short and tidy tiki-taka variant is coming to an end. Teams have figured that direct football can easily cancel this tactic, and we're seeing the rise of a front 3 who are essentially sprinters rather than technically magnificent players.
Said it in the game thread. Worst defensive league in Europe.
We played until very late, it's not a good excuse. It's Manchester United, the training games should be harder than playing against Palace.
We don't know how many games the other teams play because they're small teams and people don't pay attention to them.
I think we can safely assume everyone is under coached and they must bring Pochettino in to fix it.
It's funny that you mentioned that because yesterday, I was thinking about the fact that Kovac somehow fixed Monaco's huge defensive and organization problems. They don't look like 11 strangers on the field anymore which may force me to admit that he is probably not a terrible manager.
Passing out from the back
I wonder if a really good defensive manager could have some joy this season because it seems like City, Liverpool, Chelsea and United are sieve like this season.
This. We’re not good at it
Football was rushed back too fast. The restart was fast and very intense and a lot of clubs are paying the price for that and the lack of pre season and break. I think days like today will happen a few times through the season.
There were 7 games containing 7 or more goals during the entirety of last season. That number has been matched already. I think it must be fitness related. Most teams seem to play with high lines and press high, lack of fitness means that press isn’t as intense as it needs to be so players have more time on the ball. Only thing I can think of.
Nobody but the elite of the elite can but its being chosen as the main characteristic of players from all levels that aren't up to it.
Maybe a little in this for some goals but Maguire today was just shite.
Sunday league Standard
Some pressing-reliant teams have openly said their pressing intensity is not up there yet. I believe this is what the Leeds players were saying a few games back, and that it will take 5-6 games before the players got fully up to speed.
So the start of this season should be seen as a pre-season, with the next 5 or 6 games giving us a better idea about team's actual levels and performance.
Coaches at the highest level are almost trying to reinvent the wheel at this point and have their teams leaving theit defences completely exposed. The recent obsession with a high line that disregards pressure on the ball is nothing short of comedy defending.