If you mindlessly keep possession of the ball to stop the opposition from having it, I stop watching.“If you have the ball the opposition can’t score”
It is bollocks.Do we really do it as a tactic though??
Like, do we sit back in every game and try to hit on the break.
A quick glance at this season’s games don’t show anything that backs up the theory that we only counter attack.
I think it’s bollocks.
Yeah this is the inspiration for the thread to be honest. Why not just keep the ball & see the game out. Conceding the ball & allowing Leicester to pin us in our own half is such a dangerous way to defend a lead.Question isn't why but why we rely on it so much. 10 minutes to go we should see out the game by holding possession. Leicester were awful in possession and have no business driving us into our half without a fight. This also drove me crazy under Jose. Unnecessarily conceding areas of the pitch will cost us when the stakes are highest
Not if I have any say in the matter!This thread can go only in one way....
The opponent snapping at the heels is being pulled out of position. Then we drop the ball back and try to play through the lines where the gap occurs. It works well and we break often through this.My biggest confusion is our insistence of playing out from the back. The number of times we play to AWB (Lindelof today) and they try and play a ball into CM when they’ve got the opposition snapping at their heels and it breaks down, baffles me. Particularly in the first 5-10 mins of a match, I’m surprised we’ve not been punished.
Even in doubt, send it long ffs!
Finishing wasn't our only problem. One of our problems today was taking our foot off the gas every time we scored. No one scores all their chances but it seemed like if we scored 5 we'd have let the game end 5-5. Leicester were awful yet found an equaliser every time because we'd get lax. Rashford and Cavani miss a lot of chances on their off days. You have to account for it and either create enough to overcome it or be good enough in defense and possession to win by a slim marginThis wasn't our problem today. We should have seen the game out, as their goal was pretty much their only real chance on De Gea the entire second half.
I wonder this myself. Leicester were dicking around with the ball in midfield and lost it in our own half a few minutes before we conceded the second with bodies committed. Instead of retain possession and calm the play, Fred just boots it forward optimistically to Bruno of all people, who we know isn't the quickest. Some of our players aren't the brightest.Question isn't why but why we rely on it so much. 10 minutes to go we should see out the game by holding possession. Leicester were awful in possession and have no business driving us into our half without a fight. This also drove me crazy under Jose. Unnecessarily conceding areas of the pitch will cost us when the stakes are highest. Imo Ole gets overly tempted by the relative ease of creating on the counter
Agree with this. Some games we dominate the ball, some games we allow the opposition to come onto us and hit them on the break.Do we really do it as a tactic though??
Like, do we sit back in every game and try to hit on the break.
A quick glance at this season’s games don’t show anything that backs up the theory that we only counter attack.
I think it’s bollocks.
I will agree that we were a little bit relaxed during their equalizer and the defense should have done enough, it seems they thought the game was won once Bruno scored.Finishing wasn't our only problem. One of our problems today was taking our foot off the gas every time we scored. No one scores all their chances but it seemed like if we scored 5 we'd have let the game end 5-5. Leicester were awful yet found an equaliser every time because we'd get lax. Rashford and Cavani miss a lot of chances on their off days. You have to account for it and either create enough to overcome it or be good enough in defense and possession to win by a slim margin
comically a repeat of a gutting result under Jose which was ten times worse . 20 mins to go, a goal up against Leicester who we battered and were a man down, he abruptly decides to concede all momentum to play on the counter and Leicester score a late equaliser. Think Rashford also missed a headed sitter.Yeah this is the inspiration for the thread to be honest. Why not just keep the ball & see the game out. Conceding the ball & allowing Leicester to pin us in our own half is such a dangerous way to defend a lead.
I’m not suggesting we go back to the LVG days, but I like to see us dominating games. That’s what big clubs do.
we didn’t play counter against Everton & it was arguably our most complete performance of the season. Why revert back to it?
But we’re not intentionally conceding possession, surely you don’t think we willingly give the ball to the opposition and collectively say ‘right lads let’s all camp in our penalty area.’Yeah this is the inspiration for the thread to be honest. Why not just keep the ball & see the game out. Conceding the ball & allowing Leicester to pin us in our own half is such a dangerous way to defend a lead.
I’m not suggesting we go back to the LVG days, but I like to see us dominating games. That’s what big clubs do.
we didn’t play counter against Everton & it was arguably our most complete performance of the season. Why revert back to it?
It's more of a case of we don't actually care much for having the ball rather than we actively allow the opposition to have the ball. It's comes top down. Simple as.Agree with this. Some games we dominate the ball, some games we allow the opposition to come onto us and hit them on the break.
For large parts of last season, we played on the counter. All that has changed since the arrival of Bruno, but it seems the tag has stuck with us.
We didn't dominate the ball under SAF, in many ways our style is reminiscent of him in terms of getting the ball forward as quick as possible, without the traditional wing play of course.
What is proper possession football?We don't have the players to play proper possession football but we could get closer to dominating the ball with coaching.
If we tried to do it anytime soon we'll be punished for it so I'm happy enough to make do with being a countering team for now. Those saying we're not are either being overly defensive or think counter attack teams never have periods dominating the ball.
Anyone that thinks United only counter attack are people that will simply believe what any poor pundit or journalist will say.Do we really do it as a tactic though??
Like, do we sit back in every game and try to hit on the break.
A quick glance at this season’s games don’t show anything that backs up the theory that we only counter attack.
I think it’s bollocks.
No we didn’t. We imposed ourselves abe created a ton of chances which probably Vardy would have buried bad he been playing for us. We literally score multiple goals almost every game by imposing ourselves.Our problem isn't that we only counterattack. The problem is that we tend to rely on it when we go a goal or two up, rather than retaining possession and imposing ourselves on the opposition. It's why we dropped points today; both times after scoring we immediately surrendered possession to Leicester and invited pressure on ourselves.
So Pogba, Fred, McTominay, Matic, Bruno, VdB etc etc is worse than Henderson, Wijnaldum, Keita, Curtis Jones etc? Or worse than Lallana, Alzate at Brighton? Or worse than Phillips, Klich, Rodrigo at Leeds? Because that is only a few examples of teams that have won possession against United. Feck me I'm tired of that argument, the downplaying of our squad. We have a great squad! It's not perfect, but it's very, very good!We don't have the players to play proper possession football but we could get closer to dominating the ball with coaching.
If we tried to do it anytime soon we'll be punished for it so I'm happy enough to make do with being a countering team for now. Those saying we're not are either being overly defensive or think counter attack teams never have periods dominating the ball.
We don't have a midfield that's good enough to control games for 90 minutes, so to me letting the opposition come on to us and then going through the gears in transition is one of our strengths.It's more of a case of we don't actually care much for having the ball rather than we actively allow the opposition to have the ball. It's comes top down. Simple as.
If the opposition really wants the ball, be it RB Leipzi or Brighton, they will have it. In general, unless there's a clear game tactics we don't play with instructions to press and win it back asap or want to hold onto the ball with intent.
That's the most frustrating thing. We've shown many times, like against Leeds, we're more than capable of physically and technically dominating teams in transition and closing space. Why do we do it only against teams that clearly likely having the ball? Why can't we impose ourselves when the opposition 'allows' us to have it instead? There's too much freedom to play it out and express themselves, not enough instructions and details.
There's no such thing as players that can't play proper possession football.We don't have the players to play proper possession football but we could get closer to dominating the ball with coaching.
If we tried to do it anytime soon we'll be punished for it so I'm happy enough to make do with being a countering team for now. Those saying we're not are either being overly defensive or think counter attack teams never have periods dominating the ball.
I can agree with the bolded bit. Ole deserves massive credit for building this team and his man management has been almost flawless. However, claiming we don't have a midfield or team, who can control the game? Are you saying Leicester, Leeds, Southampton, RB Leipzig have superior players to ours?We don't have a midfield that's good enough to control games for 90 minutes, so to me letting the opposition come on to us and then going through the gears in transition is one of our strengths.
But we're also more than capable of controlling games when we have to. Newcastle, Everton, Southampton and the second half versus West Ham are examples of this where we dominated the ball, and controlled the momentum of the game. We didn't get the win versus Chelsea, but we were always the driving force in that game. PSG away was very even posession wise.
We're never going to be City, but at times watching City it's almost like posession for the sake of posession, and no penetration. Would we really be better having 65% posession, versus having the consistent 40-50% we have now, and on some occasions more than that?
Sometimes we play counter attacking football because we're good at it, but it's not all we can do. There's a difference. Ole has built a very versatile teams with players that can influence games in different ways. It's a positive thing, we're still just a couple if pieces short of the full puzzle though.
I think calling it counter attack is an oversimplification, but it's clear that we play fast, direct football with the ball, so it ends up kinda looking look a counter attacking strategy.Do we really do it as a tactic though??
Like, do we sit back in every game and try to hit on the break.
A quick glance at this season’s games don’t show anything that backs up the theory that we only counter attack.
I think it’s bollocks.
Well that's obviously subjective but personally i meant possession football that aims to defensively control/stifle games rather than just result in attacking progressions of low turnover (in contrast to direct football).What is proper possession football?
Exactly. This thread seems like it belongs in the Mourinho era.Do we really do it as a tactic though??
Like, do we sit back in every game and try to hit on the break.
A quick glance at this season’s games don’t show anything that backs up the theory that we only counter attack.
I think it’s bollocks.
Good post and a good counter to all the we only counter attack and have no style of play ‘arguments’I think calling it counter attack is an oversimplification, but it's clear that we play fast, direct football with the ball, so it ends up kinda looking look a counter attacking strategy.
Essentially, Ole's tactics is a preference to play direct with balls in behind. Him and the players have made numerous comments about not wanting possession for possession sakes, and it's evident in our play. We frequently look to get our front players in behind with through balls. We don't create overloads in wide areas, our wide forwards don't tend to wait for an overlap from the full backs, who themselves stay deeper, they look to get into the box. It's part of the reason we win so many penalties, because we constantly get players on the ball into the box. Bruno exemplifies this strategy because he gives the ball away 10 times a game by always looking for the killer pass. A few a game come off and so we score goals, but we dont have high possession stats.
As a result, it looks like and in a way becomes a counter attacking strategy, because we often don't have the ball so we're deeper as a team. We definitely don't recycle possession very much through midfield, but we can punish teams who play a high line. Either with a direct pass in behind, or to feet into Bruno or Martial who are high up and then look to play someone through within a couple passes.
I don't know what the stats say but it's evident from watching. The statistics might be skewed by the fact we're often the favourites and so will face teams camped in their own half anyway. And we also flaff about with it in defence too much, which is not something particularly associated with a counter attacking team. We're certainly not Conte level of counter attack, but yeah, we're a direct, fast side.
It actually really annoys me that we insist on playing out from defence despite this, and despite being fairly bad at it. We spend plenty of time flaffing about with it in defence, which seems pointless as when we get the ball into midfield we no longer look to keep possession and go direct. I suppose if we had a ball playing DM we might find a nice balance.
No that was my point. As a team we could be setup to dominate like other teams do but that needs a lot of work, our players aren't naturals in possession football without a full team approach.So Pogba, Fred, McTominay, Matic, Bruno, VdB etc etc is worse than Henderson, Wijnaldum, Keita, Curtis Jones etc? Or worse than Lallana, Alzate at Brighton? Or worse than Phillips, Klich, Rodrigo at Leeds? Because that is only a few examples of teams that have won possession against United. Feck me I'm tired of that argument, the downplaying of our squad. We have a great squad! It's not perfect, but it's very, very good!
