Why is our Transfer Recruitment / Scouting so bad?

Marwood

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What baffles me, with our resources, is pretty much abandoning huge parts of the globe.

We sign Park over 20 years ago, the guy is now basically a god over there. But we don't build on that at all, we've done zero business with that entire area since.
 

Cans&Bans

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Is there genuinely no additional thinking from the backroom staff outside players the manager likes, or premier league proven names/has been players?

It's frustrating to see it now with the Cucurella/Reguilón links. Why is it that we're missing out on the Brighton type signings?
This is the knock on affect of Woodwards tenure - all the wrong players brought in for stupid money, stupid wages and long contracts.. Was always gonna bite us on the arse.
The chickens have come home to roost finally and now we don't have the money because the owners have bled us dry for every penny we have.

I'm sure we want the Bellingham's and Mbappe's of this world but we don't have the money. They're Waitrose and we're shopping in Morrisons
 

Born2Lose

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According to TransferMarkt, we have over 30 scouts currently. It doesn't make sense to me that all of them are useless and unproductive. I can only assume that their opinions for whatever aren't being considered.

Nothing against Ten Haag, but I think we give the manager far too much say and autonomy, expecting one of them will become the next SAF. None of them ever will be, and for a club of our size a competent DOF is a necessity.

The biggest joke of it all of course is if the club was run properly and didn't waste so much money, then the Glazers would be even richer.
 

Blood Mage

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Because the owners don't care and only see the club as their personal piggy bank. How often does this need repeating? It's the main source of all the club's issues.
 

Cans&Bans

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Because the owners don't care and only see the club as their personal piggy bank. How often does this need repeating? It's the main source of all the club's issues.
Yep - just said the same. Until they go, we'll be at this level going forward. Selling to buy, and buying players that are perhaps not the quality you'd expect a team like United to be going for.
 

Jackal

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The same Wan Bissaka who is still out number one right back? Who's statistics and performances have been very good since getting back into the team?

I don't get this arguement, we have poor scouts because we didn't buy players that other teams brought.
A player can only.go to one club at any one time, why are Arsenals scouts not worse than ours, as they didn't sign any of those aforementioned players, and have been relatively weak in the right full back department?
The fact that he's United's #1 right back should tell you how far the standards have fallen.
The same Wan-Bissaka cannot get into the England team. You look at Reece James, Trent-Alexander, Kyle Walker and one can almost weep
that the biggest club in the country is comfortable starting Premier League's 10th best right back in their team.

Gary Neville didn't retire for this to be happening. It's a sad state of affairs.
 

tomaldinho1

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What baffles me, with our resources, is pretty much abandoning huge parts of the globe.

We sign Park over 20 years ago, the guy is now basically a god over there. But we don't build on that at all, we've done zero business with that entire area since.
We bought Park because of his form at PSV and everyone knew him after his incredible game vs AC. Same for Son, he was a known entity at Hamburg, Kim was seen at Fenerbahce before his move to Napoli. Our issue is not that we neglect picking players from South Korea or other far off countries, it is very simply that we don't see talent when it arrives in the other European leagues, wherever they might be from.
 

Marwood

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We bought Park because of his form at PSV and everyone knew him after his incredible game vs AC. Same for Son, he was a known entity at Hamburg, Kim was seen at Fenerbahce before his move to Napoli. Our issue is not that we neglect picking players from South Korea or other far off countries, it is very simply that we don't see talent when it arrives in the other European leagues, wherever they might be from.
But by then that talent costs a fortune and everybody wants them. How's that been working out for us?

So I'd say yeah, it is a major problem that we can't scout this talent from the likes of South Korea or South America. Much smaler clubs with less resources seem to manage it.
 

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What baffles me, with our resources, is pretty much abandoning huge parts of the globe.

We sign Park over 20 years ago, the guy is now basically a god over there. But we don't build on that at all, we've done zero business with that entire area since.
Park probably isn't the best example since he, like many of our signings today, was signed from the Eredivisie.

I do agree with the gist of your post though.
 

Tibs

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When Qatar take over (fingers crossed) their first act should be fire everyone involved with transfers and scouting.

Then, head hunt Brightons scouting team.
 

Marwood

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Park probably isn't the best example since he, like many of our signings today, was signed from the Eredivisie.

I do agree with the gist of your post though.
My point is about the huge popularity we gained in that part of the world 20 years ago by signing Park and how we haven't used that advantage at all.

With that in mind Park is the best and in fact only example I could use.

We could say the same about Valencia and Ecuador, Forlan and Uruguay. There are probably others.

Pellistri is only here because Forlan recommended him, not through scouting.
 

tomaldinho1

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But by then that talent costs a fortune and everybody wants them. How's that been working out for us?

So I'd say yeah, it is a major problem that we can't scout this talent from the likes of South Korea or South America. Much smaler clubs with less resources seem to manage it.
You’re kind of acknowledging the issue whilst also dismissing it.

The players don’t cost a fortune in that they are affordable for a club in United’s financial position, you can’t get them all but just think of Son, Salah, KDB, Odegaard, Partey, Saliba, Dias, Gundogan, Firmino etc. none of them were really unknown, they were all playing in Europe and some had even been in the PL before. We just can’t get them across the line (I don’t even know if we were in for any of the above) or, more likely, aren’t even trying.

There’s no point spending vast sums to go and comb a country like South Korea for a kid who could be decent when we can’t even sort out what’s happening on our own continent. That should be the focus first.
 

Champ

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The fact that he's United's #1 right back should tell you how far the standards have fallen.
The same Wan-Bissaka cannot get into the England team. You look at Reece James, Trent-Alexander, Kyle Walker and one can almost weep
that the biggest club in the country is comfortable starting Premier League's 10th best right back in their team.

Gary Neville didn't retire for this to be happening. It's a sad state of affairs.
Maguire starts in the England team, so your point there is null and void straight away!!
 

AndySmith1990

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Honestly I haven't got a clue beyond the standard reply of "the Glazers"

It's been 10 years of bad recruitment and we're seeing the same old shit now. We're at the end of the transfer window desperately scrambling around trying to find some cheap cast offs to bolster a mediocre squad that is in desperate need of real quality
 

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I thought we brought in some super analyst guy who was working for liverpool or something? Is that wrong? All the money spent elsewhere and they can’t go out and headhunt proven people?
 

AndySmith1990

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I thought we brought in some super analyst guy who was working for liverpool or something? Is that wrong? All the money spent elsewhere and they can’t go out and headhunt proven people?
I'm failing to see the point of hiring analysts, scouts, a DoF, or anyone beyond a manager and a few coaches. We always buy whoever the manager wants anyway
 

Offside

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At the top the club don’t care about building a good football team. This has been the main reason for our drop off. The actual funds spent could have built the greatest team ever. It’s now been left to rot to a vicious cycle.
 

Offside

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I also think the damage Woodward did was even greater than people already know. Biggest clown going.
 

Loon

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I would love to know who, if anyone, the analysts and whatnot came up with to fill the roles Ten Hag was looking to sort. Perception is Ten Hag is making all the selections himself.
 

Marwood

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You’re kind of acknowledging the issue whilst also dismissing it.

The players don’t cost a fortune in that they are affordable for a club in United’s financial position, you can’t get them all but just think of Son, Salah, KDB, Odegaard, Partey, Saliba, Dias, Gundogan, Firmino etc. none of them were really unknown, they were all playing in Europe and some had even been in the PL before. We just can’t get them across the line (I don’t even know if we were in for any of the above) or, more likely, aren’t even trying.

There’s no point spending vast sums to go and comb a country like South Korea for a kid who could be decent when we can’t even sort out what’s happening on our own continent. That should be the focus first.
I'd say the players you've listed there all moved before prices really ballooned. Most of those players moving today go for much higher fees I reckon. You can barely kick a ball now and be worth £60 million.

Does it require vast sums to scout the far east or South America? If it does how come much smaller clubs manage it?

Is it more expensive than waiting for that player to first come to Europe and then signing him? I doubt it.

I think you've got it the wrong way around. Proper world wide scouting saves you money. Focusing on one continent, the most expensive continent, is the best way at wasting money.
 

podurban2

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The people in charge really should take a long look at themselves. An embarrassment.
 

jesperjaap

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Not sure it is the scouting. We have been heavily linked with lots of top talent the last coupeo lof seasons....weird how few gone to CHelsea now.

Not sure if it the manager at the time of club hierachy, but we dont seem to be pulling the triiger on any bar top unexperienced teenagers we are trying to fast track through our youth teams.

What I am finding disheartening is the current large proportion of our recruitment seems to be lookign at players the manager has worked with before or knows domestically nd our current midfield links are the same and we are still massively over spending on each transfer. only Onana to me looks about the right fee from our paid transfers.

We have spent moer than CIty pre Nunes and they have bought in far more money from transfers too and they have bought pure qulaity in terms of ability and bar Doku who doesnt seem to me a system player and will need to adapt, players that perfectly fit the needs of the role within the side.

We have recruited a cb who wasnt quite godo enough here a decade ago and a number 8 who isnt a number 8.

Its a shocking window bar the GK who I think is a decent signing but not an exceptional one and the Striker who I have a gut feelign will be great, time will tell.

Who that lies with we dont really know, but some of the fault has to lie with the manager, I think mount in terms of needs, suitabiity and fee within what we needed to buy will prove a shockign signing and one the manager really wanted and will play a part in a season moving backwards and possibly the fans turning on him as other before in there dismal second seasons
 

garelo

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Nkunku wasn't on the list of targets, so we weren't actively scouting him, that doesn't mean the scouts didn't know about him, which is the myth that has perpetuated. He wasn't a player that the scouts deemed a fit for the team.

To clarify the last point, a sporting director/DoF draws up a list of targets alongside the manager and scouting team based on the principles of the team and style of play. Targets are then joint decisions and should then slot into the team due to this process.
This is how it worked under Cortese at Southampton, similar to how it works at Brighton, Newcastle and Arsenal.
we are looking to sign Cucurella and Marco Alonso, ive had enough for this debate if you still cant see the problem.
 

Champ

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we are looking to sign Cucurella and Marco Alonso, ive had enough for this debate if you still cant see the problem.
Yes because we need an emergency short term loan late on in the window.
Context is everything.
 

lsd

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Unless of course Ten Hag is just choosing to overrule recommendation.

Which is the right answer.

We know United scouts earned against Antony but he ignored them.

We are in this mess because we have allowed whoever the manager is to buy who they want and not listen to the club's scouts.

We are in serious need of a real director of football
 

ROFLUTION

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Which is the right answer.

We know United scouts earned against Antony but he ignored them.

We are in this mess because we have allowed whoever the manager is to buy who they want and not listen to the club's scouts.

We are in serious need of a real director of football
It's a difficult situation. Ten Hag has probably been promised influence when hiring, so that has probably been the premise. He then chooses to go against the scouts, which starts another new difficult situation where Antony's price is the reason why we can't buy the squad players we currently chase.
 

garelo

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Yes because we need an emergency short term loan late on in the window.
Context is everything.
and those are the best names that our scouts, DoF, and analysists can come up with.... context is everything.
 

ROFLUTION

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What baffles me, with our resources, is pretty much abandoning huge parts of the globe.

We sign Park over 20 years ago, the guy is now basically a god over there. But we don't build on that at all, we've done zero business with that entire area since.
The Ferguson signings all had some good traits. Great scouts too really.

Many of the players were on the rise and hadn't yet peaked but they were very hungry and talented or knew what their role was like with Park.

They also had resale value because we bought them young/on the rise. That market has obviously changed completely now where you just pay really big money for talents like Cucurella, Caicedo or Højlund even though they haven't actually reached their prime yet. Now we buy Casemiro, Varane's and other players who have already been at a big club and will have no resale value when they retire. It's really not a good operation income wise.
 

lsd

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and those are the best names that our scouts, DoF, and analysists can come up with.... context is everything.
What makes you think those are the names they are coming up with.

We know Ten Hag had his own mind on who he was and doesn't let that be changed by anyone.

It's likely these are the players he wants at this stage
 

baskinginthesun

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When Qatar take over (fingers crossed) their first act should be fire everyone involved with transfers and scouting.

Then, head hunt Brightons scouting team.
Why are people obsessed with Brighton's recruitment team. They've never managed a top 4 finish in the league. It can't be that good.
 

garelo

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What makes you think those are the names they are coming up with.

We know Ten Hag had his own mind on who he was and doesn't let that be changed by anyone.

It's likely these are the players he wants at this stage
And I thought we had DoF....
 

nickm

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My point regards LVG was mainly to do with the fact we had a style of play and were improving within that structure.
He had a style of play but I can't say we were improving. He was incredibly rigid and the players were clearly unhappy.
 

nickm

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Honestly I haven't got a clue beyond the standard reply of "the Glazers"

It's been 10 years of bad recruitment and we're seeing the same old shit now. We're at the end of the transfer window desperately scrambling around trying to find some cheap cast offs to bolster a mediocre squad that is in desperate need of real quality
That's not scouting, that's financial fair play.
 

Andycoleno9

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Answer is obvious, no? Because we let our manager to find and choose targets. In this setup we don't need Dof and scouts.