Why we must embrace a long-term approach

[Mr Smith]

A few threads going up in reaction to recent transfer news, so I apologise for another one. But I've been thinking a lot about what someone posted about cycles, and the fact that, even if we did sign a couple of truly world class players this summer, we probably still wouldn't be able to win major honours. For one thing, the teams at the top of the league are at the absolute peak of their powers, with no obvious weaknesses. And for another, we don't know if we have a manager who can turn quality into true success.

This is not intended to be a dig at Ole. It's just a reflection of the fact that we don't really know how good he is. But that shouldn't matter. Because I actually think he's the perfect manager for us in the current circumstances. We won't win the PL this season, and wouldn't have no matter who we realistically could sign. We probably couldn't win it next season either. But what we can do is change a culture. We can establish a clear playing style. We can bring young players through and instil in them key values we want in a United player; never giving up, making it about the team rather than the individual, playing with positivity, and always expecting a high standard. These are values Ole understands our players need, and clearly wants to instil based on his playing style and what we have seen of his approach to management.

If Ole goes on to be a great manager, and can win the PL in his time with us, I'll be delighted. But I think it's more likely he will be a transition manager. We talked so much about "transition" during the Van Gaal and Mourinho eras, but the fact is they were not transition managers. They were revolution managers, who's approaches both required a massive overhaul of the squad in order to win things, and were the antithesis of their predecessors. Both were hired because they were the most successful available managers at the time, rather than because they fit our style.

This time, we can behave differently; we can take our time. The money isn't going anywhere. We're too big a brand for that to dry up. If it's clear Ole isn't good enough to make us successful again, I don't want him sacked for the sake of it. We could finish 6th again and I wouldn't want Ole sacked unless the right manager is available to take his place. I want us to wait for the manager who is the best natural fit to build on what Ole is trying to do.

We have an opportunity here. We are likely to have more academy graduates in our starting line-up this year than we have for a over a decade. Lets not throw money at the problem for once. Lets let our graduates develop, and bring them through with a vision of what we want United to be.

Or maybe I'm just butt-hurt because Dybala rejected us.

 

[MUFC OK]

The idea of building sustainably with young players is ideological, and at least it buys the manager 3 years or so to build something.

we've seen a change in style of football, when Ole took over and now in pre-season. My worry is how 'sustainable' this is over the season. We tailed off badly last year and with EL, we have a squad that's only an injury away from Jones, Young, Mata (rw), starting big games for us.

Therefore I only see marginal improvement on last year. No top 4 again/we could sneak in there with luck. The issue is we do not want to be stuck in this rebuild phase for too long, or we could turn around in 3 years and summarise that it didn't work and we could have even less top quality players than now. It's all blind faith at this point, but we don't seem to have another option.

 

[Mark Pawelek]

A few threads going up in reaction to recent transfer news, so I apologise for another one. But I've been thinking a lot about what someone posted about cycles, and the fact that, even if we did sign a couple of truly world class players this summer, we probably still wouldn't be able to win major honours. For one thing, the teams at the top of the league are at the absolute peak of their powers, with no obvious weaknesses. And for another, we don't know if we have a manager who can turn quality into true success.

This is not intended to be a dig at Ole. It's just a reflection of the fact that we don't really know how good he is. But that shouldn't matter. Because I actually think he's the perfect manager for us in the current circumstances. We won't win the PL this season, and wouldn't have no matter who we realistically could sign. We probably couldn't win it next season either. But what we can do is change a culture. We can establish a clear playing style. We can bring young players through and instil in them key values we want in a United player; never giving up, making it about the team rather than the individual, playing with positivity, and always expecting a high standard. These are values Ole understands our players need, and clearly wants to instil based on his playing style and what we have seen of his approach to management.

If Ole goes on to be a great manager, and can win the PL in his time with us, I'll be delighted. But I think it's more likely he will be a transition manager. We talked so much about "transition" during the Van Gaal and Mourinho eras, but the fact is they were not transition managers. They were revolution managers, who's approaches both required a massive overhaul of the squad in order to win things, and were the antithesis of their predecessors. Both were hired because they were the most successful available managers at the time, rather than because they fit our style.

This time, we can behave differently; we can take our time. The money isn't going anywhere. We're too big a brand for that to dry up. If it's clear Ole isn't good enough to make us successful again, I don't want him sacked for the sake of it. We could finish 6th again and I wouldn't want Ole sacked unless the right manager is available to take his place. I want us to wait for the manager who is the best natural fit to build on what Ole is trying to do.

We have an opportunity here. We are likely to have more academy graduates in our starting line-up this year than we have for a over a decade. Lets not throw money at the problem for once. Lets let our graduates develop, and bring them through with a vision of what we want United to be.

Or maybe I'm just butt-hurt because Dybala rejected us.

At last a sensible post. I've not even read yet. (But did before posting) But I know it's sensible because O/P sees problems when instant success isn't happening.
United spent 2 years under LVG, then 2½ under Mourinho. 5 summers of transfers. A lot of them very so-so. 4½ seasons of mediocre football, followed by a bout of excitement then more mediocrity. Too many fans want instant recovery. But spent what it takes to get to top again isn't going to happen. United are not going to spend the money. It would be about a £1 billion, or more, in today's market anyhow. It's either a 2 to 3 year spell of recovery; with careful, astute signings each summer plus promotion of the best youth. Or continued mediocrity. Look on the bright side: Darmian, Rojo, Matic contracts expire next summer.

 

[Volumiza]

A few threads going up in reaction to recent transfer news, so I apologise for another one. But I've been thinking a lot about what someone posted about cycles, and the fact that, even if we did sign a couple of truly world class players this summer, we probably still wouldn't be able to win major honours. For one thing, the teams at the top of the league are at the absolute peak of their powers, with no obvious weaknesses. And for another, we don't know if we have a manager who can turn quality into true success.

Firstly, don't ever apologise for a good post. I enjoyed reading what is probably the most sensible post I've read on here for weeks! The point about City and Liverpool being at the peak of their powers is spot on, very little we could have possibly done in the market this summer would have made up the ground completely on either of them. And with regard to Ole ... all we can do is hope.

This is not intended to be a dig at Ole. It's just a reflection of the fact that we don't really know how good he is. But that shouldn't matter. Because I actually think he's the perfect manager for us in the current circumstances. We won't win the PL this season, and wouldn't have no matter who we realistically could sign. We probably couldn't win it next season either. But what we can do is change a culture. We can establish a clear playing style. We can bring young players through and instil in them key values we want in a United player; never giving up, making it about the team rather than the individual, playing with positivity, and always expecting a high standard. These are values Ole understands our players need, and clearly wants to instil based on his playing style and what we have seen of his approach to management.

Again let's hope. I agree that we have no hope of a title challenge next season, or possibly the one after but we should absolutely have a plan in place to ensure that we are back amongst the top 3 in 3 - 4 seasons time and definitely we need a culture change and I believe Ole is trying to do that. I'm definitely a fan of the 3 signings made so far, all a step in the right direction and directly addressing problems in our starting 11.

We talked so much about "transition" during the Van Gaal and Mourinho eras, but the fact is they were not transition managers. They were revolution managers, who's approaches both required a massive overhaul of the squad in order to win things, and were the antithesis of their predecessors. Both were hired because they were the most successful available managers at the time, rather than because they fit our style.

Spot on. I actually still believe we should have stuck with LVG for at least another season instead of ripping it all up and appointing another manager who works largely on the overhaul technique and we've really suffered because of the drastic managerial changes since SAF left us.

This time, we can behave differently; we can take our time. The money isn't going anywhere. We're too big a brand for that to dry up. If it's clear Ole isn't good enough to make us successful again, I don't want him sacked for the sake of it. We could finish 6th again and I wouldn't want Ole sacked unless the right manager is available to take his place. I want us to wait for the manager who is the best natural fit to build on what Ole is trying to do.

I agree again, even if we finished 6th again I would be happy to see Ole kept in the role if there was some real steps forward in creating a solid identity.

We have an opportunity here. We are likely to have more academy graduates in our starting line-up this year than we have for a over a decade. Lets not throw money at the problem for once. Lets let our graduates develop, and bring them through with a vision of what we want United to be.

75% agree here. I agree that Greenwood should be hovering around the first team but I also feel we should be foolish to rely too heavily on either Gomes or Chong at this point,finishing lower than 6th would be very damaging to them and to Utd, it's a fine balance between giving these players a chance because they are there but weighing up whether they are actually good enough to do a job.

Or maybe I'm just butt-hurt because Dybala rejected us.

You shouldn't have been sucked into the black hole of hope

 

[Mr Smith]

The idea of building sustainably with young players is ideological, and at least it buys the manager 3 years or so to build something.

we've seen a change in style of football, when Ole took over and now in pre-season. My worry is how 'sustainable' this is over the season. We tailed off badly last year and with EL, we have a squad that's only an injury away from Jones, Young, Mata (rw), starting big games for us.

Therefore I only see marginal improvement on last year. No top 4 again/we could sneak in there with luck. The issue is we do not want to be stuck in this rebuild phase for too long, or we could turn around in 3 years and summarise that it didn't work and we could have even less top quality players than now. It's all blind faith at this point, but we don't seem to have another option.

I agree in parts, but again, you're only thinking one season ahead here. It doesn't matter if the current pressing style isn't sustainable; we can try again next season with some changes. My whole point is that we know we're not going to win major honours for the next 2-3 years, so we basically have a golden opportunity to experiment. Obviously we'd be better placed to do what I'm describing if we get top 4 this season, but if we don't, its not a disaster.

 

[Mr Smith]

Spot on. I actually still believe we should have stuck with LVG for at least another season instead of ripping it all up and appointing another manager who works largely on the overhaul technique and we've really suffered because of the drastic managerial changes since SAF left us.

I agree again, even if we finished 6th again I would be happy to see Ole kept in the role if there was some real steps forward in creating a solid identity.

Agree with most of your sentiments, but not this. I strongly believe Van Gaal should never have been appointed, and we couldn't get him out quickly enough. Yes he was trying to build something, and if we'd stuck it out it might have become successful (I doubt it), but it was just way too far from our previous styles; we basically needed an entire new squad to play his way.

Personally, if there is one time I could go back to post Fergie, it is the start of 2014 right before we hired Van Gaal. The club were in a state of panic and literally just got the first experienced, successful manager they could find. We should have appointed an interim and waited until the right manager came along. I genuinely believe most of our current problems stem from the panic buying and lack of joined up thinking that came from that summer of chaos.

 

[izzydiggler]

If the Internet was as widespread in the 90's, RAWK would be filled with threads like this...that Roy Evans and the 'boot room boys' knew the club and the values imposed on the people associated with it.

That they don't need the big money signings, lower league signings like Rob Jones and Jason McAteer are where it's at with players like Jan Molby using their experience and teaching the youngsters like Dominic Matteo and John Thompson to be the next stars.

It's all' head in the clouds' naively positive IMO. United are done as an elite heavyweight, at least on the pitch. We've been overtaken by City and Liverpool by some distance. 2 top 4 finishes in 6 years and the fans on here (rightly) riddicule the prospect of a title run and argue about the merits of being 4th as progress but there are threads about not signing anyone else not being the end of the world. Expectations are on the floor but still people convince themselves that untested youngsters will somehow bring their glory yeses back because 25 years ago we had a few really good ones (who embedded into a title winning team with loads of great, experienced players)...the chances of this approach being the solution is absolutely miniscule.

If we've had our time, so be it, there were some great memories and we had a good run but let's not delude ourselves that this approach is going to work.

 

[MUFC OK]

I agree in parts, but again, you're only thinking one season ahead here. It doesn't matter if the current pressing style isn't sustainable; we can try again next season with some changes. My whole point is that we know we're not going to win major honours for the next 2-3 years, so we basically have a golden opportunity to experiment. Obviously we'd be better placed to do what I'm describing if we get top 4 this season, but if we don't, its not a disaster.

I am not sure we should be 'experimenting' but rather fine tuning an idea, firstly by getting the right personnel. It is entirely possible that we waste this 2/3 year grace period with low expectations and fall further behind still. In fact on paper, without a proven world class manager, less proven top quality players, we are probably likely to do so.

I am hoping for this project to work, but it seems a little like blind faith to me.

 

[Gehrman]

If the Internet was as widespread in the 90's, RAWK would be filled with threads like this...that Roy Evans and the 'boot room boys' knew the club and the values imposed on the people associated with it.

That they don't need the big money signings, lower league signings like Rob Jones and Jason McAteer are where it's at with players like Jan Molby using their experience and teaching the youngsters like Dominic Matteo and John Thompson to be the next stars.

It's all' head in the clouds' naively positive IMO. United are done as an elite heavyweight, at least on the pitch. We've been overtaken by City and Liverpool by some distance. 2 top 4 finishes in 6 years and the fans on here (rightly) riddicule the prospect of a title run and argue about the merits of being 4th as progress but there are threads about not signing anyone else not being the end of the world. Expectations are on the floor but still people convince themselves that untested youngsters will somehow bring their glory yeses back because 25 years ago we had a few really good ones (who embedded into a title winning team with loads of great, experienced players)...the chances of this approach being the solution is absolutely miniscule.

If we've had our time, so be it, there were some great memories and we had a good run but let's not delude ourselves that this approach is going to work.

This really. We've been rebuilding for 6 seasons now. We don't have any excuse not to replace the players we are losing and strengthing in the positions we are lacking. We have the funds or at least Ed keeps saying we do. There is no excuse for not going all out on the best targets for us. No ambitious players are going to want to join us for the top 6 battle. And then Pogba will probably leave next summer and then the quality of our squad is even more shit. You don't see any of the other biggest club in world accept the mediocrity we're subjected to.

 

[Volumiza]

Agree with most of your sentiments, but not this. I strongly believe Van Gaal should never have been appointed, and we couldn't get him out quickly enough. Yes he was trying to build something, and if we'd stuck it out it might have become successful (I doubt it), but it was just way too far from our previous styles; we basically needed an entire new squad to play his way.

Yeah, I know, but you could say the same about Jose so I was talking out of hindsight really. Either way, the post Fergie years have been a managerial catastrophe and Ole has a lot of work to do to tidy up the mess left by the changes.

 

[Smores]

Is this the delusion stage then?

Oh no we dont want to be successful we're doing it another way it's not failure

The funny thing is people creating all these threads are bending over backwards to try and reinterpret events positively but we'll likely sign someone in next few days which negates all these arguments.

 

[Mr Smith]

This really. We've been rebuilding for 6 seasons now. We don't have any excuse not to replace the players we are losing and strengthing in the positions we are lacking. We have the funds or at least Ed keeps saying we do. There is no excuse for not going all out on the best targets for us. No ambitious players are going to want to join us for the top 6 battle. And then Pogba will probably leave next summer and then the quality of our squad is even more shit. You don't see any of the other biggest club in world accept the mediocrity we're subjected to.

The bolded part negates the rest of your post though. No ambitious players want to join us now; certainly not the truly top class ones. We are already in a top 6 battle, and will be no matter who we buy. So we have to do things differently. We have to promote and buy young players, and buy players who want to make their name playing for us.

 

[Lentwood]

I like the general sentiment of the OP. I personally am beginning to see green shoots of recovery which I HOPE reflect a change in attitude, mentality and strategy amongst the senior execs at the club. I am taking all of the below as positives;

- We have signed three young, hungry players who WANT to be at Manchester United for reasons OTHER THAN money

- At least two of those players SHOULD be bankers i.e. go straight into our team and improve us in positions that have been problematic for years

- We decided AGAINST offering Dybala insane money to try to lure him to the club. A clear 'lesson-learnt'.

- Ole has identified a style of play which the fans will get behind. Fact is, Jose and LvG played football in a way that was alien to our fan base. They were always likely to lose support the minute results weren't there

 

[Blind pew]

This is an excellent and thought-provoking thread.

To a large extent, I am viewing this new season as a clean sheet. Okay, not as clean as it might be though. United still have too many of the deadwood that let us down so badly in the final third of last season. I am sure I'm not alone in hoping that of those remaining, there's been a serious change of attitude. We'll see. It's certainly demanded by the fans anyway.

So, to the future. We have to be patient. Much has obviously been made of the post-Ferguson era. Are we dwelling too much on this? Has it become an albatross around the club's neck?

Pundits at the time reckoned that United's last title-winning team was the worst one. That may be. What we have to accept, grudgingly or not, is that our opposing clubs really have improved. United haven't. What to do then?

* Get those players in who really want to play for United.

*Make sure that, although we may get beat from time to time, when the opposition leave the pitch they are exhausted. Recently, United looked far too easy to beat.

* Instil in the players, "hard work beats talent, when talent doesn't work."

If United need my advice, I am available(!)

 

[Andycoleno9]

Long term approach. God, how i hate that phrase. It is just one big excuse. Long term is for midtable clubs. Clubs who can sacrifice few season without getting a hit in terms of finances, reputation and things like that.

Big ( giant) clubs just can't afford it. Only long term plan for big clubs is next season or maybe two. Why? Because when you don't have results few seasons in a row you lose reputation, with reputation you lose big sponsors, without sponsors you lose money for players who at the end bring you titles. Time "lets win it with kids" is history.
Look at Arsenal for example. They were with us top club in 90s and in early 2000s. Then, because of new stadium and later new owners, they accepted that approach. Now they can only dream of buying top players and winning titles. They can't afford it and top players don't want to come there. Liverpool needed 30 years to come back to the top. Milan is in a mess.
What do you all think that Adidas and other sponsors will give us money for finishing 4th,5th or 6th? Top players already don't want to come here or stay here( Pogba).
Yes, spending insane money is not solution but if you think that money will keep coming in club, you are wrong.

Just to be clear here. I am also curious and want to see Chong, Greenwood, Tuanzebe and Gomes. But why keep Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Lingard and Mata then? Finishing 5th with kids i can accept but finishing 5th with dross players, i can't.

 

[red woppit]

Long term approach. God, how i hate that phrase. It is just one big excuse. Long term is for midtable clubs. Clubs who can sacrifice few season without getting a hit in terms of finances, reputation and things like that.

Big ( giant) clubs just can't afford it. Only long term plan for big clubs is next season or maybe two. Why? Because when you don't have results few seasons in a row you lose reputation, with reputation you lose big sponsors, without sponsors you lose money for players who at the end bring you titles. Time "lets win it with kids" is history.
Look at Arsenal for example. They were with us top club in 90s and in early 2000s. Then, because of new stadium and later new owners, they accepted that approach. Now they can only dream of buying top players and winning titles. They can't afford it and top players don't want to come there. Liverpool needed 30 years to come back to the top. Milan is in a mess.
What do you all think that Adidas and other sponsors will give us money for finishing 4th,5th or 6th? Top players already don't want to come here or stay here( Pogba).
Yes, spending insane money is not solution but if you think that money will keep coming in club, you are wrong.

Just to be clear here. I am also curious and want to see Chong, Greenwood, Tuanzebe and Gomes. But why keep Jones, Smalling, Rojo, Lingard and Mata then? Finishing 5th with kids i can accept but finishing 5th with dross players, i can't.

You can't just put in loads of youngsters and expect to get the same results as the senior players, but a gradual changing of the old quard is what is needed.

 

[RedCoffee]

A few threads going up in reaction to recent transfer news, so I apologise for another one. But I've been thinking a lot about what someone posted about cycles, and the fact that, even if we did sign a couple of truly world class players this summer, we probably still wouldn't be able to win major honours. For one thing, the teams at the top of the league are at the absolute peak of their powers, with no obvious weaknesses. And for another, we don't know if we have a manager who can turn quality into true success.

This is not intended to be a dig at Ole. It's just a reflection of the fact that we don't really know how good he is. But that shouldn't matter. Because I actually think he's the perfect manager for us in the current circumstances. We won't win the PL this season, and wouldn't have no matter who we realistically could sign. We probably couldn't win it next season either. But what we can do is change a culture. We can establish a clear playing style. We can bring young players through and instil in them key values we want in a United player; never giving up, making it about the team rather than the individual, playing with positivity, and always expecting a high standard. These are values Ole understands our players need, and clearly wants to instil based on his playing style and what we have seen of his approach to management.

If Ole goes on to be a great manager, and can win the PL in his time with us, I'll be delighted. But I think it's more likely he will be a transition manager. We talked so much about "transition" during the Van Gaal and Mourinho eras, but the fact is they were not transition managers. They were revolution managers, who's approaches both required a massive overhaul of the squad in order to win things, and were the antithesis of their predecessors. Both were hired because they were the most successful available managers at the time, rather than because they fit our style.

This time, we can behave differently; we can take our time. The money isn't going anywhere. We're too big a brand for that to dry up. If it's clear Ole isn't good enough to make us successful again, I don't want him sacked for the sake of it. We could finish 6th again and I wouldn't want Ole sacked unless the right manager is available to take his place. I want us to wait for the manager who is the best natural fit to build on what Ole is trying to do.

We have an opportunity here. We are likely to have more academy graduates in our starting line-up this year than we have for a over a decade. Lets not throw money at the problem for once. Lets let our graduates develop, and bring them through with a vision of what we want United to be.

Or maybe I'm just butt-hurt because Dybala rejected us.

Great Post and the exact sentiment felt by most true united supporters. Your final sentence was contradictive to the rest of the post though. You should be approving of the Dyabalicol situation that prevailed.

 

[Ranchero]

It has been six years since Fergie went...that is long term. Time for results

 

[Mr Smith]

It has been six years since Fergie went...that is long term. Time for results

That's easy to say, but we've been trying to buy success for the last 6 years with scattergun recruitment and decorated managers. How do you suggest we achieve the results you demand with the best players uninterested in joining us, no CL football, and our rivals achieving record points tallies?

If we keep trying the same thing over and over again we'll waste the next 3-4 years and still be nowhere.

 

[slir32]

One thing you forgot to mention is the club buying top quality young teenagers the last few years. I believe they are looking at a long term project rather than a quick fix so hopefully this along with Oles project we might be competing again in 3 to 5 years on all fronts.

 

[Kill 'em all]

The owners are not serious about bringing us back to the top and it will never happen while they're here. This was the summer to really back the manager and at least improve all areas of the squad and they failed. Chelsea will come and the likes of Lingard, Mata, Matic and Fred will more than likely be starting. Ole has no chance to succeed with these players.

 

[Berbaclass]

There are two things that have pleased me so far at the beginning of this season.

The first is that from minute one of that Leeds game you could see exactly how Ole wants the team to line up and how he wants us to play. The high pressing style with quick counter attacking and a fluid front line. I think this in itself is such a positive thing.

We've have four managers who have not really had a clear 'philosophy' of how they wanted us to play and this has also correlated with their dealings in the transfer market. It's just been panic buys or seeming getting players at random or bringing in big names. Not the right approach obviously.

That brings me onto the second thing that I think we can look at as a positive so far. Our transfer business. If you want to be negative, fine, you can dismiss this but you can't deny that each of the three signings that we have made this year fit into our new style and all three have been good sensible signings. Maguire was expensive yes but if we're going to actually play football then his ability on the ball along with Lindelof is going to be key.

People are looking at our transfer business with a lot of pessimism so far and saying that we haven't got enough but you don't build a team in one window. I believe it takes a year or two at least, possibly three to fully rebuild a team organically and to put in place the foundations.

I see our window this year as making two key signings (AWB and Maguire) and renewing the contracts of two of our key players (Rashford and DDG). We have also got rid of Lukaku who isn't in the plans so now it's obviously up to the management/recruitment to fund a suitable replacement, same goes for Herrera.

The important thing is that we don't rush and panic buy somebody. We can absolutely manage with what we have right now and we will address the position in the future because after all it's not all about this season or the next it's about establishing a solid foundation for the next 10 or even 20. Consistency and continuity are going to be key and patience will also be needed.

 

[Dominos]

The issue is, for every year we're outside the champions league, profits take a big hit, which means less funds for strengthening the team, and more players turning down the chance to join us. Look at the likes of Dybala and Erikssen, if we were one of the top teams in europe right now do we really believe they'd be turning their noses up at joining us?

If we'd have addressed more of our problem areas last summer we probably wouldn't have ended up in such a shambles last season, and again we're going into this season with gaping holes in the team, with better dealings we could be favourites for 3rd but we've actually managed to weaken our midfield and attack which is incompetency on the next level.

 

[Irwin99]

If the Internet was as widespread in the 90's, RAWK would be filled with threads like this...that Roy Evans and the 'boot room boys' knew the club and the values imposed on the people associated with it.

That they don't need the big money signings, lower league signings like Rob Jones and Jason McAteer are where it's at with players like Jan Molby using their experience and teaching the youngsters like Dominic Matteo and John Thompson to be the next stars.

It's all' head in the clouds' naively positive IMO. United are done as an elite heavyweight, at least on the pitch. We've been overtaken by City and Liverpool by some distance. 2 top 4 finishes in 6 years and the fans on here (rightly) riddicule the prospect of a title run and argue about the merits of being 4th as progress but there are threads about not signing anyone else not being the end of the world. Expectations are on the floor but still people convince themselves that untested youngsters will somehow bring their glory yeses back because 25 years ago we had a few really good ones (who embedded into a title winning team with loads of great, experienced players)...the chances of this approach being the solution is absolutely miniscule.

If we've had our time, so be it, there were some great memories and we had a good run but let's not delude ourselves that this approach is going to work.

I was thinking about that Liverpool team earlier and also Arsenal in the mid 00's and us post Fergie (with Jones, Smalling, and to a lesser extent Evans, Rafael) of teams with a core of players that were expected to 'come good' and become successful but who never did. The danger is you can fall into a trap of 'well, next season we will see them mature as better players' which just becomes an endless cycle.

The signings of AWB and Maguire have been fantastic, and i'm really confident they'll prove to be very good players for years to come but we're putting an awful lot of faith in other things that seem really questionable. I'm all for the long term approach if it's really well thought out but I refuse to believe that a club as big as United can't scout for better players and better deals than what we're getting.

 

[Amir]

That's easy to say, but we've been trying to buy success for the last 6 years with scattergun recruitment and decorated managers. How do you suggest we achieve the results you demand with the best players uninterested in joining us, no CL football, and our rivals achieving record points tallies?

If we keep trying the same thing over and over again we'll waste the next 3-4 years and still be nowhere.

To be fair, getting decorated managers is not a bad plan. We just got the wrong ones. Looking up the table, we see what getting the right ones did for our rivals.

 

[Mr Smith]

To be fair, getting decorated managers is not a bad plan. We just got the wrong ones. Looking up the table, we see what getting the right ones did for our rivals.

I agree, and that's what I point out in my post. We shouldn't just sack Ole if the results don't go well unless we have the right manager lined up to replace him; a manager that is a fit with the club's values, and can build on Ole's current approach, rather than ripping up and starting again.

 

[Mr Smith]

One thing you forgot to mention is the club buying top quality young teenagers the last few years. I believe they are looking at a long term project rather than a quick fix so hopefully this along with Oles project we might be competing again in 3 to 5 years on all fronts.

I'm hopeful of this, but still very skeptical of the owners and Ed Woodward. I hope they've learned their lessons from the last few years and are looking long-term, but we won't know for certain until the next big managerial decision comes along.

 

[Melville Red]

. Look on the bright side: Darmian, Rojo, Matic contracts expire next summer.

Well let’s just hope Woody isn’t reading this because if he is he’ll be extending those contracts.

 

[Foxbatt]

The long term plan will only work if you also have a short term plan to get the club where it can be challenging. It does not matter if it does not actually win but needs to challenge. There is no way that this team is going to challenge for anything at all. This is the worst team that we have had since Moyes took over. LVG and Jose had better teams and yet we did not win the PL or even the CL. Only and imbecile like Woodwad thinks we can challenge for any trophies.

I hope that the aircraft comes out this season to get Woodwad out.

 

[Owngoalscorer]

Actually more excited about this season than quite a few recent ones - agree fully with many of OPs remarks - just hope the old crocks are used sparingly

 

[Bastian]

A few threads going up in reaction to recent transfer news, so I apologise for another one. But I've been thinking a lot about what someone posted about cycles, and the fact that, even if we did sign a couple of truly world class players this summer, we probably still wouldn't be able to win major honours. For one thing, the teams at the top of the league are at the absolute peak of their powers, with no obvious weaknesses. And for another, we don't know if we have a manager who can turn quality into true success.

This is not intended to be a dig at Ole. It's just a reflection of the fact that we don't really know how good he is. But that shouldn't matter. Because I actually think he's the perfect manager for us in the current circumstances. We won't win the PL this season, and wouldn't have no matter who we realistically could sign. We probably couldn't win it next season either. But what we can do is change a culture. We can establish a clear playing style. We can bring young players through and instil in them key values we want in a United player; never giving up, making it about the team rather than the individual, playing with positivity, and always expecting a high standard. These are values Ole understands our players need, and clearly wants to instil based on his playing style and what we have seen of his approach to management.

If Ole goes on to be a great manager, and can win the PL in his time with us, I'll be delighted. But I think it's more likely he will be a transition manager. We talked so much about "transition" during the Van Gaal and Mourinho eras, but the fact is they were not transition managers. They were revolution managers, who's approaches both required a massive overhaul of the squad in order to win things, and were the antithesis of their predecessors. Both were hired because they were the most successful available managers at the time, rather than because they fit our style.

This time, we can behave differently; we can take our time. The money isn't going anywhere. We're too big a brand for that to dry up. If it's clear Ole isn't good enough to make us successful again, I don't want him sacked for the sake of it. We could finish 6th again and I wouldn't want Ole sacked unless the right manager is available to take his place. I want us to wait for the manager who is the best natural fit to build on what Ole is trying to do.

We have an opportunity here. We are likely to have more academy graduates in our starting line-up this year than we have for a over a decade. Lets not throw money at the problem for once. Lets let our graduates develop, and bring them through with a vision of what we want United to be.

Or maybe I'm just butt-hurt because Dybala rejected us.

A few things. Playing "the right way" or "establishing a clear playing style" requires quality in various positions. People are absolutely rightly alarmed by our threadbare midfield. Ole has said he wants more possession and to be able to utilise that possession to control games more. That won't happen without our midfield overpowering other teams' midfield.

I think most people want to see youngsters given chances and we do have some very talented ones coming through. I'm repeating myself here, but this is my biggest hopes in Ole, that he actually integrates youngsters into the team. But, unfortunately, it seems none of them are ready in midfield. I mind it less that we only have two strikers now, neither of whom has convinced as a goal machine, but I think they need the chance and the responsibility to deliver on their promise. The defense looks good, but it won't look great if we are dominated in midfield. It will be under the cosh.

Addressing the glaring issues (not all the issues, just the major major ones) by acquiring quality players is not throwing money at a problem. That's a bit of a lazy way of framing that. A balanced team will benefit all the players. A team that has 8 or 9 players capable of doing a job and 2-3 players who can't, isn't some romantic pragmatism. It's withholding the potential of the players who can actually play. This is what we've become accustomed to.

I also doubt Ole wanted to be economical this summer and buy two established players, one a few days before the deadline. He must be seriously frustrated though he always puts on a positive face.

I almost can't believe that this is how we're going to respond to finishing 6th after squandering chances time and again to get into the CL positions. Our last two months last season is possibly the worst I can ever remember a United team. I'm still thinking "surely they've got something lined up". It really beggars belief..

 

[Roboc7]

Can’t embrace a lot my term approach when there isn’t one, all we’ve done this summer is buy British. There’s still no plan short or long term and still no DOF or equivalent to put one in place etc.

We’re still handing out contracts or extending them for deadwood which shows there isn’t an intention to give more opportunities to youngsters. Have to call this club what it is lacking in ambition and incompetent. Said last season rock bottom is still to come and don’t feel any different now.

 

[Drainy]

Seems like we're happy for a transitional season of bedding in new players and tactics while seeing how the challenge for top 4 goes.

We've only signed players who are likely to stick with the project and have been unwilling to over spend on areas where we are adequate for a to 4 challenge but no more (midfield and attack) plus we have a large number of academy players who are showing promise in those positions that should get a chance this year.

 

[Bestietom]

.Sick of listening to this long term approach. Fergie retired in 2013 and we have gone backwards since

 

[TrueRed79]

Seems like we're happy for a transitional season of bedding in new players and tactics while seeing how the challenge for top 4 goes.

We've only signed players who are likely to stick with the project and have been unwilling to over spend on areas where we are adequate for a to 4 challenge but no more (midfield and attack) plus we have a large number of academy players who are showing promise in those positions that should get a chance this year.

That transitional season you speak of has been going on 7 years so far. New managers, new players, new ideas=transition. Looks like this season they have decided to go with unproven kids. Fergie did it once from a position of power. Now we are doing it with an unproven manager. Great stuff.

 

[Kaizane]

Was very refreshing to see us publicly end interest in two big names this window because we felt "their motivations were wrong". Since when has that happened since SAF retired? Clear change in strategy and I've never been so happy in missing out in genuine quality players. It sends out a strong positive message to any footballer thinking they can come here and play out the rest of their days on a huge contract. We're not mugs anymore - those days are gone.

Say what you will about Ole, but he's already changed us for the better off the field and he's now put us on the correct course of returning to be contenders. It will take time but two years on this course will see us with a team full of players who actually want to wear the shirt and fight for it as a collective like their lives depend on it. If it means forgoing big names, then so be it. Big names have little prove whereas players with everything to prove always have that extra fire in the belly which is what we need right now. Dybala and to some degree Eriksen would have been another Sanchez situation.

 

[romufc]

What does long term mean? Surely you have to look at short term approach that works in the long term. You can say we are building a team for 3 years down the line but do nothing off the field to suggest this?

If we really going to approach this, it can't be just the players.

Ed Woodward needs to relinquish footballing duties.

DoF needs to be hired and agree a brand of football United want to play.
A manager that fits the profile, not oh lets give Ole the job on the temporary basis he done well and now he is permanent manager. That was not long term.

 

[Siorac]

The "long-term approach" is simply not going to cut it. At the top level, you don't have 5-6 years to lay the foundations and build a team because without success, without challenging for major trophies, the key players will simply look elsewhere. They don't have time to wait for a project to mature. And then you can start again.

It's easy to say "well let's only sign players who want to play for United and no one else!" but that's bollocks. Most players, especially the very best ones, want to earn a lot of money and want to be successful. Real Madrid are an attractive destination not simply because of "history" and "prestige", it's because they offer a guarantee that they always have the very highest ambitions and will throw money at the problem if the team fails to meet those.

 

[Ash_G]

The "long-term approach" is simply not going to cut it. At the top level, you don't have 5-6 years to lay the foundations and build a team because without success, without challenging for major trophies, the key players will simply look elsewhere. They don't have time to wait for a project to mature. And then you can start again.

It's easy to say "well let's only sign players who want to play for United and no one else!" but that's bollocks. Most players, especially the very best ones, want to earn a lot of money and want to be successful. Real Madrid are an attractive destination not simply because of "history" and "prestige", it's because they offer a guarantee that they always have the very highest ambitions and will throw money at the problem if the team fails to meet those.

I think you're right in that you can't expect the top players to wait around for all the pieces to come together but I think there is a balance as well in that you can't fix all the problems in one window.

Personally I think we should have gotten in at least one more experienced attacker in the team as I do think we're overly reliant on inconsistent/unproven players there but I can also see the logic in trying to identify players who really want to be here.

I think this season realistically is about getting back in to the CL (and hopefully a cup win) and if we can do that whilst given some promising young players a chance and seeing if some of the ones who need to transition to being consistent performers (e.g. Rashford, Martial, Shaw etc) then that's a good place to be.

If next season we're back in the CL with a load of young, hungry players who've shown they've got the talent to perform then suddenly I think we're a much better proposition for anyone. We'll always have a pull because of the name, history and frankly wages we'll pay but I'd imagine if players can see all the young talent that's there in a squad with hopefully a more assured OGS then it's easier to bring in some other players who are coming here for the vision as well.

It is a gamble but I guess this is the season to do it.

 

[abailey123]

100 percent agree with everything the OP said.

For the first time in a long time we actually seem to have our transfer policy defined- we’ve sorted 2 key problem areas out and if we concede 20 fewer goals than we did last year we’ll do well.

James is a project player who will give us energy and width - he’s obviously a player who suits a pressing system.

I can see why we’ve not recruited a midfielder. McTominay may kick on as we’re all expecting, Fred could have got the one season syndrome out of him, Pogba could take that controlling influence we all hope and expect.

If not signing a 10 in the mould of Dybala and Eriksen means we’ll see a lot more of Gomes and Greenwood I’m all for it. If we can get a Mandzukic over the line by the end of deadline day this will give our forward line the much-needed experience it is lacking at the moment. I’d say Oles biggest challenge this year is getting 20 goals out of Martial and Rashford - now is the time for these 2 to fulfil their potential.