Why were Juventus not punished in any way with regards to Heysel?

[The regulator]

First of all, I'd like to point out that at Heysel, the authorities had to take the blame for many things:

1) Letting Juventus fans sit right next to the Liverpool fans, who on earth thought this was a good idea
2) Using an old decripted half collapsing stadium
3) Terrible policing.

Why is this not picked up on? Of course, Liverpool fans are to blame for most of it because if they didn't try and climb over to the Juve end there wouldn't have been any problems.

However, I read something that has entirely not been mentioned whatsoever and whenever people mention Heysel nobody says anything:

Which is this:

In retaliation for the events in section Z, Juventus fans then rioted at their end of the stadium. They advanced down the stadium running track towards the Liverpool supporters, but police intervention stopped the advance. The Juventus fans fought the police with rocks, bottles and missiles for two hours. One Juventus fan was captured on television footage apparently firing a pistol (later verified as being a starting pistol). When the game kicked off, riot police were still fighting a pitched battle with Juventus supporters, and they maintained a presence around the entire pitch for the duration of the game.

Why is this acceptable? Why has nobody brought this up against Juventus and why is it hushed up?

 

[Blair]

Liverpool fans caused it, end of.

 

[BigDunc9]

 

[Alex99]

Probably because, as stated, they were acting in retaliation to what Liverpool fans had done. That, and it was Juventus fans that lost their lives.

Edit: I also don't see what there is to be gained by discussing this. I'd recommend deleting the thread.

 

[Mali_Zeus]

This will be interesting.

 

[The regulator]

Liverpool fans caused it, end of.

Of course they did.

Still doesn't justify having a 2 hour slogfest with the police using missiles bottles etc.

One nutter carried a starter pistol into the stadium ffs. British hooliganism is bad but correct if I'm wrong nobody ever tried to bring a firearm into a stadium.

 

[The regulator]

Probably because, as stated, they were acting in retaliation to what Liverpool fans had done. That, and it was Juventus fans that lost their lives.

Edit: I also don't see what there is to be gained by discussing this. I'd recommend deleting the thread.

I'm just curious that's all. I don't side with either team on this.

Because based on law, if some guy killed my family/friend, and I went and tried to kill him, I would be charged with assault/affray.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

2) Using an old decripted half collapsing stadium

What does this mean? Sorry to be one of them...

 

[devilish]

Of course they did.

Still doesn't justify having a 2 hour slogfest with the police using missiles bottles etc.

One nutter carried a starter pistol into the stadium ffs. British hooliganism is bad but correct if I'm wrong nobody ever tried to bring a firearm into a stadium.

People were pissed off. Juventus fans died (friends, family members etc) because of the Liverpool fans and they wanted blood. You can't blame them for that.

That's how Juventus fans 'celebrated' the 27 year anniversary

 

[adexkola]

I don't see why a serious conversation can't be had in this thread. I know little about Heysel so it would be nice to hear more.

Plus it seems the punishment was extremely disproportionate.

 

[charleysurf]

Close this fecking thread.

 

[The regulator]

I don't know why I wrote decripted. I meant deteriorating.

 

[2 man midfield]

What does this mean? Sorry to be one of them...

Decrepit, i think he means.

 

[Eboue]

I think you meant decrepit.

 

[The regulator]

People were pissed off. Juventus fans died because of the Liverpool fans and they wanted blood. You can't blame them for that.

From a purely lawful standpoint, yes you can.

Crimes of passion are still crimes. I can't go and try and kill the person who killed someone I cared for.
Of course, I understand what they were feeling and I can empathize with them from a purely emotional standpoint. But given that there were deaths and people were charged with manslaughter, I'm surprised that nobody really took this in.

 

[devilish]

From a purely lawful standpoint, yes you can.

Crimes of passion are still crimes. I can't go and try and kill the person who killed someone I cared for.
Of course, I understand what they were feeling and I can empathize with them from a purely emotional standpoint. But given that there were deaths and people were charged with manslaughter, I'm surprised that nobody really took this in.

The football world was tired of Hooliganism. People used to dread playing against the English clubs and when shite hit fan fear/over caution turned into hatred and violence. Liverpool's act was the icing of the cake.

What I find it disgusting is that other British clubs shared the blame of the Scousers.

 

[The regulator]

The football world was tired of Hooliganism. People used to dread playing against the English clubs and when shite hit fan fear/over caution turned into hatred and violence. Liverpool's act was the icing of the cake.

What I find it disgusting is that other British clubs shared the blame of the Scousers.

Didn't the FA welcome the decision though? I read that the FA actually banned English teams playing in Europe directly after Heysel way before Uefa actually did.

 

[BigDunc9]

The football world was tired of Hooliganism. People used to dread playing against the English clubs and when shite hit fan fear/over caution turned into hatred and violence. Liverpool's act was the icing of the cake.

What I find it disgusting is that other British clubs shared the blame of the Scousers.

Although it is nothing compared to losing loved ones like the family members had to it probably cost Everton a European Cup.

 

[Richard Cranium]

Of course they did.

Still doesn't justify having a 2 hour slogfest with the police using missiles bottles etc.

One nutter carried a starter pistol into the stadium ffs. British hooliganism is bad but correct if I'm wrong nobody ever tried to bring a firearm into a stadium.

A starter pistol isn't a firearm, they're blank firing.

 

[The Man Himself]

What nonsense. Juventus fans were not responsible for starting what happened and ended up suffering. Can't be blamed.

 

[devilish]

Didn't the FA welcome the decision though? I read that the FA actually banned English teams playing in Europe directly after Heysel way before Uefa actually did.

Although it is nothing compared to losing loved ones like the family members had to it probably cost Everton a European Cup.

That's what I am saying. Its unfair that every English club got the blame for it. To use modern terms imagine if all English clubs would have to pay part of Shitty's FFP fine. That's stupid.

 

[The regulator]

A starter pistol isn't a firearm, they're blank firing.

That's not the point, it's principle.

If you had no idea what a starter pistol looked like and some dickhead started waving what looks like a pistol at a crowd, everyone would be absolutely shitting themselves and could cause mass panic/hysteria.

 

[BigDunc9]

That's not the point, it's principle.

If you had no idea what a starter pistol looked like and some dickhead started waving what looks like a pistol at a crowd, everyone would be absolutely shitting themselves and could cause mass panic/hysteria.

They would only be false starting then.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

I don't think that this thread will lead to anything good to be honest. I would recommend searching google and reading in depth the events that happened that day. I understand your curiosity but genuinely don't think this is the pkace to discuss it. Although if tbe mods disagree with me i'll get the popcorn.

 

[The regulator]

What nonsense. Juventus fans were not responsible for starting what happened and ended up suffering. Can't be blamed.

So suffering is justification to provoke more suffering?

Juve fans rioting and slogging it out with the police, whilst emotionally understandable, did not do anything to help the situation whatsoever and aggravated the police for 2 hours.

 

[Barney]

What nonsense. Juventus fans were not responsible for starting what happened and ended up suffering. Can't be blamed.

They were partly. There were a number of contributing factors with the main one being ourselves.

 

[Stick]

This will not end well............

 

[The regulator]

I also don't understand why people think it's not a suitable place to discuss.

We are a football forum, a relatively neutral one in relevance to the incidence, and most of us have less emotional attatchment to this tragedy compared to Juventus or Liverpool fans so it's not likely to get heated and personal.

How will it 'not end well?'

 

[The Man Himself]

So suffering is justification to provoke more suffering?

Juve fans rioting and slogging it out with the police, whilst emotionally understandable, did not do anything to help the situation whatsoever and aggravated the police for 2 hours.

If you see 30-40 people lying dead around, I don't expect much patience from a mob, especially if they are from same group, football or otherwise.

 

[Alex99]

It's not that it isn't a suitable place to discuss, as such, more that discussions never end well. People always end up saying stupid things, nothing new is discussed and it generally just turns into a horrible blame-game that seems to ignore the fact that people died.

 

[Stick]

I also don't understand why people think it's not a suitable place to discuss.

We are a football forum, a relatively neutral one in relevance to the incidence, and most of us have less emotional attatchment to this tragedy compared to Juventus or Liverpool fans so it's not likely to get heated and personal.

How will it 'not end well?'

How long are you on here and do you have any memory of previous Heysel discussions?

 

[The regulator]

How long are you on here and do you have any memory of previous Heysel discussions?

Relatively new and no.

 

[Stick]

Relatively new and no.

As Alex said based on every other Heysel thread or thread that went around to a Heysel discussion it always ends in a few posting something stupid things and a blame game. So based on the stat that 100% of heysel threads dont end well I'm willing to bet that this will not end well.

 

[Richard Cranium]

They would only be false starting then.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

I also don't understand why people think it's not a suitable place to discuss.

We are a football forum, a relatively neutral one in relevance to the incidence, and most of us have less emotional attatchment to this tragedy compared to Juventus or Liverpool fans so it's not likely to get heated and personal.

How will it 'not end well?'

Are you looking for a reaction or are you just being stupid? (I'm not calling you stupid as i'm sure you're an intelligent guy) As good as this forum is there will always be a contingent of United fans that no matter what the subject will be unable to draw th line between football rivalry and personal tragedy, also we have a handful of Liverpool fans here that will not like to be reminded of either of the tragedies their club has been involved in, regardless of who is or isn't to blame.

Like I said earlier, all of the inormation that you sek is available on the internet and a quick research will put all of your questions to rest.

I wasn't around on the caf at the time but there were posters banned for a similar discussion that got out of hand and the reason I offered you advice on this not being the right place to talk about this subject was that I can see this conversation going the same way, I'm sure you meant no malice in the thread but ultimately i can see it going downhill quickly

 

[sullydnl]

Have to say I'm slightly curious too as I don't really know that much about Heysel. Theoretically we should be able to discuss it here.

That said, this already feels like one of those threads that won't end well. All it takes is one idiot to set things off and we'll probably end up with a few bans handed out.

On balance, best to avoid these sort of threads.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

What I find it disgusting is that other British clubs shared the blame of the Scousers.

Imagine something like that in this age. Billion dollar clubs getting expelled from Europe thanks to some other clubs..

Clubs' power wasn't much back in those days.

 

[adexkola]

The thread will only go downhill if sensitive eejits keep on harping about what a bad idea this is. Barney, a Liverpool fan, has acknowledged Liverpool's role in the disaster without any bias. I'd thread ban all you idiots if I could.

 

[Rolandofgilead]

The thread will only go downhill if sensitive eejits keep on harping about what a bad idea this is. Barney, a Liverpool fan, has acknowledged Liverpool's role in the disaster without any bias. I'd thread ban all you idiots if I could.

The feck are you calling an idiot?

 

[Stick]

The thread will only go downhill if sensitive eejits keep on harping about what a bad idea this is. Barney, a Liverpool fan, has acknowledged Liverpool's role in the disaster without any bias. I'd thread ban all you idiots if I could.

Well this thread has taken a turn for the better. I can really see it picking up.