Would any City player get into a combined United-City all time XI?

[RedPed]

It's all about recency bias. Anybody putting De Bruyne ahead of Scholes, for example was clearly not watching him play for United regularly. I would have to find a place for Aguero somehow but not at the expense of Rooney. He would probably have to make the bench along with De Bruyne and Ya Ya. I'd put Walker ahead of Neville purely based on longevity but that's about it.

The United playlist is probably three times longer than City's.

 

[Offside]

Irwin at right-back and Evra left-back, both superior to Neville and Walker.

True enough.

 

[IrishMcD]

Yes, I’ve seen enough of both Robson and Keane (and watched every United game available from the 60’s and 70’s, many multiple times). If I’m picking a central midfielder, more specifically a box-to-box, Keane and Robson go in ahead of Rodri (or Gerrard, or Lampard) without a question. If I’m picking a sitting defensive midfielder with the likes of Charlton & De Bruyne ahead of him, I’d probably go with the one who has performed at an insane level in this specific set up (as in Rodri) — instead of going with Keane or Robson, who sometime played in similarly strictly defensive roles but usually did it out of desperation or when they were older (like Keano). Especially Robson, whose runs into the box were so important to his game.

Ah ok, so you arent of the generation who watched Best, Law and Charlton live. Like i said, i could never pick someone in these "Best 11" teams if I hadn't seem them play in my life time, which means I would never include Pele, Cryuff, Best etc in all time great teams, which kinds defeats the purpose then.
I have watched loads of the older generations players on tapes and highlights but I just don't think its the same as living through that particular era and seeing all the games.
And as someone who saw Keano live in the flesh multiple times, and have watched Rodri three times live, I think there is a big difference between them. Again, this is all just my perspective and my opinion.

 

[NotoriousISSY]

Walker, Kompany, De Bruyne, Silva and Aguero all have a legitimate shout imo, but in all cases it's pretty close.

 

[Scandi Red]

You could make an argument for De Bruyne and Walker.

De Bruyne has been world class for a long time, but whoever you replace him with just feels wrong.

Walker and Neville is very even.

 

[black country red]

Anyone who seriously rates rhodri above uniteds greatest player post trinity needs to put Bryan Robson into google search just to see what brilliant player he was

 

[Fortitude]

The problem with this question is United fans are mostly setting up United-centric teams based around our principles and playing styles; you can set up a Fergie-type side and a Pep-type side and the xi‘s will be vastly different; there aren’t many universal players; even Best or Ronaldo wouldn’t get in a Pep team, for example.

A team straight down the middle has the likes of Charlton, Rio and… hmmm, possibly Scholes?

 

[Motorman]

Schmeichel
Walker Rio Vidic Irwin
KDB Keane Scholes
Ronaldo Rooney Giggs
​

 

[Baxquux]

Anyone who seriously rates rhodri above uniteds greatest player post trinity needs to put Bryan Robson into google search just to see what brilliant player he was

One issue is around perception - Robson was at his peak when United were in one of their most fallow periods (the last ten years are comparable, of course, though marginally better in terms of trophies and league finishes than the 81-91 period). He still won FA Cups in mid 80s under Ron and then 90 of course, and then was part of the CWC 91 win when things were starting to click into gear, but was more of a 'first reserve' when it came to the first two League titles. Hence I wouldn't blame people for selecting Keane in his place, brilliant and all-purpose midfielder as Robson was: Keane was both closest thing to a Robson continuation once he got going, and then one of the GOAT defensive midfielders in latter part of career, plus captain during the most consistently glorious period of the club's history in purely footballing terms ...

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Nah, if you multiplied his career by 2 and made him better defensively. Tempted to make a thread “is Gary Neville the most underrated player in football history?” I think his self-critical humour makes people actually think he was shite when he was astonishingly consistently excellent over an equally astonishing length of time.

The way Scholes talks about himself is seeing things start to go that way too.

 

[lex talionis]

Not a fukking chance.

But a combined XI today wouldn’t see a single United player.

 

[Irwin99]

If we're counting their peak level first and foremost and not the longevity/overall standing in the game (which makes picking United legends of the past an easy choice compared to players that are still active), then I can imagine this team to be the best overall XI:

Cristiano - Law - Best
Charlton - De Bruyne
Rodri*
Irwin - Vidić - Rio - Walker
Schmeichel​

* as a sitting defensive midfielder in this set up he's better than Keane & Robson even though I wouldn't dare to argue (yet?) that he's a superior player. Obviously if you just go by the face value, it's very tempting to put someone like Keano as a defensive midfielder...

Good team, can't argue with that. I was actually looking at Keane's passing stats from the 01-02 season and was shocked at the amount of passes he racked up, something like 2400 in just 28 league games and that must be similar to what a player like Rodri is putting in. I know Keane wasn't a pure DM but he could probably do the same role. As much as I love Scholes i'd probably pick De Brunye above him too though.

 

[Red in STL]

One could argue Bert Trautmann should be the keeper, anyone who plays in a cup final with a broken neck has gotta be fecking special!

Never saw him play myself but my Dad trained with him in the early 50's and says he was awesome

 

[Carl]

Aside from Dennis Law / Peter Schmeichel who would be in solely on United performances but are technically City players.

I’ve come up with the following:

Schmeichel

Neville
Ferdinand
Vidic
Irwin

Charlton
Robson
Scholes

Best
Cantona
Giggs

I saw some Sky debate on a combined all time XI and it suddenly hit me that no City players would actually make it. If it was a combined Premier League XI that makes it different but as soon as you bring Robson, Charlton and Best in I don’t the De Bruynes / Yayas / Agueros getting in.

What would your combined XI be?

Talk about hanging onto the past. City have dominated the Premier league for how many years now? Not to mention matching United's greatest achievement last season. But no one from that period gets in? Nah. Sorry.

 

[Baxquux]

Good team, can't argue with that. I was actually looking at Keane's passing stats from the 01-02 season and was shocked at the amount of passes he racked up, something like 2400 in just 28 league games and that must be similar to what a player like Rodri is putting in. I know Keane wasn't a pure DM but he could probably do the same role. As much as I love Scholes i'd probably pick De Brunye above him too though.

De Bruyne's more of an athlete (and obviously technically brilliant, high footballing smarts and the rest), but if Scholes was playing in Pep City teams in an 8/10 hybrid position, all else being equal, his numbers would be even more absurd. There's a reason why his contemporaries kept consistently naming him the best midfielder of his generation, straddling the Zidane/Ronaldinho/Seedorf etc period, Gerrard/Lampard and the start of the Xavi/Iniesta one.

Up and down England career aside, Scholes was a blessed talent, almost unearthly passing ability to the point where that aspect of his game had to be close to Messi levels (in anything, maybe a greater long-passer), and basically as close as you could come in terms of all-round creative and play-orchestrating game to the second coming of Charlton, although often playing deeper later in his career.

 

[harms]

Not sure if anybody would ever have seen him but if Charlton thought he was inferior to Duncan Edwards then surely he is in an all time team?

Not many are lucky to have seen Edwards live and there are about 3-4 full games (Villa, Brazil, Italy?) with him online… but overall, however good Edwards was, he was far from fulfilling his potential and I’d take every word about him with a (very small) grain of salt. I genuinely think that he would’ve been the most complete and probably the best English player ever but I wouldn’t put him in my XI.

 

[TwoSheds]

Not if it's a United fan making it because the rivalry between the two clubs is bitter. A neutral would probably put De Bruyne, Walker and David Silva in a combined XI though. Maybe Aguero too?

I'm sure it's been said already but I couldn't read any further. David Silva, are you taking the piss? He was what, Spain's 5th best midfielder or something and yet somehow he's getting in a team ahead of Duncan Edwards, Roy Keane, Bryan Robson, Bobby Charlton, De Bruyne, Paul Scholes or Yaya? Tbh I'd even consider placing Fernandinho, Gundogan, Ince and Rodri above him.

 

[TwoSheds]

The problem with this question is United fans are mostly setting up United-centric teams based around our principles and playing styles; you can set up a Fergie-type side and a Pep-type side and the xi‘s will be vastly different; there aren’t many universal players; even Best or Ronaldo wouldn’t get in a Pep team, for example.

A team straight down the middle has the likes of Charlton, Rio and… hmmm, possibly Scholes?

There's some baffling shit said on this forum.

 

[harms]

Ah ok, so you arent of the generation who watched Best, Law and Charlton live. Like i said, i could never pick someone in these "Best 11" teams if I hadn't seem them play in my life time, which means I would never include Pele, Cryuff, Best etc in all time great teams, which kinds defeats the purpose then.
I have watched loads of the older generations players on tapes and highlights but I just don't think its the same as living through that particular era and seeing all the games.
And as someone who saw Keano live in the flesh multiple times, and have watched Rodri three times live, I think there is a big difference between them. Again, this is all just my perspective and my opinion.

As someone who spends a lot of his time watching old games I can’t fully agree with you (I’ve literally seen hundreds of Cruyff’s games as well as all 44 of Pelé not counting the highlights), but fair enough. Football is all about opinions though, so who cares if we disagree with each other

As I’ve said, for almost any other side I’d pick Keano no questions asked. I also wanted to prove that the OP was a bit one-sided, so picked with little City-bias (as much as you can have as a United fan).

 

[MrMarcello]

Irwin at right-back and Evra left-back, both superior to Neville and Walker.

Beat me to it. This full-back tandem would be amazing.

 

[IrishMcD]

As someone who spends a lot of his time watching old games I can’t fully agree with you (I’ve literally seen hundreds of Cruyff’s games as well as all 44 of Pelé not counting the highlights), but fair enough. Football is all about opinions though, so who cares if we disagree with each other

As I’ve said, for almost any other side I’d pick Keano no questions asked. I also wanted to prove that the OP was a bit one-sided, so picked with little City-bias (as much as you can have as a United fan).

And maybe I am being biased too towards Keane but I dont think Rodri is better than him in any role

 

[Scroto Baggins]

Not if it's a United fan making it because the rivalry between the two clubs is bitter. A neutral would probably put De Bruyne, Walker and David Silva in a combined XI though. Maybe Aguero too?

This, it's a United forum, id expect on here id see arguments of why Mctominay is better than Toure and why Maguire is way better than Kompany.

 

[harms]

And maybe I am being biased too towards Keane but I dont think Rodri is better than him in any role

I think it’s a fair opinion to have, considering how insanely good he was for us. To be fair, I think that he’s the best overall midfielder in the PL era but I felt that Rodri - De Bruyne makes a better unit.

 

[bosnian_red]

I don't like doing pre 90's stuff because there's so many years of history that realistically none of us have seen much and can't do a real opinion on it. No doubt Edwards, Best, Charlton and Law were all time greats, but I'm ok with sticking with the post 90s for these.

Saying that, I'd probably have De Bruyne in there... And that's it? Walker and Neville is tight probably. Kompany is a tier below Rio/Vidić/Stam, David Silva brilliant but it's 2 of him, Scholes, Beckham and De Bruyne... Scholes and KdB are my picks for that. CF you could pick any of Rooney, Ruud, Aguero, Cantona and I probably wouldn't argue too much. VDS/Schmeichel is a 50/50 for me.

Rio, Irwin, Keane, Ronaldo and Giggs are the automatics in this team.

Van der Sar
Neville Ferdinand Stam/Vidić Irwin
Scholes Keane De Bruyne
Ronaldo Cantona Giggs​

Haaland will probably get in here if he stays at City long enough.

 

[harms]

The problem with this question is United fans are mostly setting up United-centric teams based around our principles and playing styles; you can set up a Fergie-type side and a Pep-type side and the xi‘s will be vastly different; there aren’t many universal players; even Best or Ronaldo wouldn’t get in a Pep team, for example.

A team straight down the middle has the likes of Charlton, Rio and… hmmm, possibly Scholes?

There's some baffling shit said on this forum.

I think Pep became way less dogmatic over the years, willing to adapt himself to his players' strengths (Haaland and, more recently, Doku being great examples)... and young Best especially was very energetic off the ball, so I would imagine that he would manage to fit him in.

But no, it's not as baffling of an opinion to have that Pep wouldn't enjoy working with such individual players... post 1968 Best fits very well into the mould of post 2008 Ronaldinho (bits of incredible quality mixed with an awful discipline and poor influence on the entire dressing room). And he shipped him off pretty soon.

 

[RaddyRed]

Schmeichel

Neville
Ferdinand
Vidic
Irwin

Charlton
Robson
Keane

Best
Cantona
Dickov

 

[padr81]

Its clearly

Nicky Weaver
Sun Jihai
David Brightwell
Ian Brightwell
Glauber Berti
Kevin Horlock
Stephen Ireland
Andy Morrison
Jeff Whitley
Jim Whitley
Lee Bradbury

 

[Gio]

I think Pep became way less dogmatic over the years, willing to adapt himself to his players' strengths (Haaland and, more recently, Doku being great examples)... and young Best especially was very energetic off the ball, so I would imagine that he would manage to fit him in.

But no, it's not as baffling of an opinion to have that Pep wouldn't enjoy working with such individual players... post 1968 Best fits very well into the mould of post 2008 Ronaldinho (bits of incredible quality mixed with an awful discipline and poor influence on the entire dressing room). And he shipped him off pretty soon.

Yeah that’s fair. I reckon if he can accommodate Grealish, then Best could find a home in a Pep team.

 

[Fortitude]

Yeah that’s fair. I reckon if he can accommodate Grealish, then Best could find a home in a Pep team.

Grealish had to conform, Best wouldn’t be reined in, I don’t think. These all-time teams are players at their peaks and by then even Charlton said Best was maddening to play with in terms of doing what others wanted.

Unless the player makes concessions, you’ve got an Ibrahimovic-sized problem on your hands.

 

[Gio]

Grealish had to conform, Best wouldn’t be reined in, I don’t think. These all-time teams are players at their peaks and by then even Charlton said Best was maddening to play with in terms of doing what others wanted.

Unless the player makes concessions, you’ve got an Ibrahimovic-sized problem on your hands.

Now clearly Best quantum-leaping from 1967 into the start of a City match today would be a compatibility problem.

But my take is that Best playing more freely then was as much a product of his time, as it was a reflection of the man. This is a time when there was far less - if any - patterned play on the training ground, the sort of which changed Grealish from freestyle individualist at Villa to team cog at City. Also a time when there was no real and comparable appreciation for the value of tactical systems and positioning which didn’t come until the 70s and beyond. So Best goes out onto the park with a different tactical view in his head then, than he would today.

If Pep could call upon this pool of legends all at their peaks and work with them for a few weeks, I think Best is one who could make the transition better than others. Some would struggle with the short-game demands. But Best is one of the greatest dribblers of all time and the one thing Pep prizes in his wingers is their 1v1 ability. Beyond that all he’d ask from Best is plenty of graft (which he generally had) and a wide starting position (which he’d pick up quickly on the training ground or watching a couple of games). Recognising his other-worldly talent and personality, over time his role might evolve like Messi’s did, from the traditional wide gig, to a false 9 with the freedom to do what he wanted.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Haaland and de Bruyne

 

[Lord SInister]

The problem with this question is United fans are mostly setting up United-centric teams based around our principles and playing styles; you can set up a Fergie-type side and a Pep-type side and the xi‘s will be vastly different; there aren’t many universal players; even Best or Ronaldo wouldn’t get in a Pep team, for example.

A team straight down the middle has the likes of Charlton, Rio and… hmmm, possibly Scholes?

Most people thought that Haaland isn't a Pep player. I think Pep would cream himself if he got a prime Cristiano or Best in this current City team.

 

[P-Ro]

Not sure why people are saying Haaland could one day make it. There is no centre forward for either team who has ever played as well as Haaland has.

 

[lex talionis]

Haaland and de Bruyne

Someday, but one season of greatness doesn't get it done. Ruud and Rooney easily over Haaland on this day in October 2023, but someday Haaland may be looking at Ruud and Rooney in the rearview mirror.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

Someday, but one season of greatness doesn't get it done. Ruud and Rooney easily over Haaland on this day in October 2023, but someday Haaland may be looking at Ruud and Rooney in the rearview mirror.

Nah, he gets in for me (as does Rooney) I’ve watched enough to know he belongs in there.

Also it’s not one season - it’s his entire pro career basically.

He’s a freak, and coupled with prime Rooney… good Lord… can you imagine the sheer destruction the two of them would wreak being fed by KdB!?

 

[PSV]

Ruud - Haaland
Rooney - De Bruyne - Ronaldo
Keane - Rodri
Vidic - Rio - Stam
VDS​

MM to the rescue.

Honestly feel Walker is the only defender that could get in. Kompany would be the closest, but we have 3 all-time greats.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

No chance, they have a small number players that might make our reserves

 

[Plant0x84]

This thread is a load of bollocks. It’s titled ‘all time XI’ and I’m seeing Kyle Walker and fecking Grealish for goodness sake.
With the possible exception of Aguero I would argue for a total ban on Oil wealth financial doped cheating era players.
Obviously Bell and Summerbee have been mentioned already- haven’t seen anybody say Franny Lee yet though, up until Rooney he was the all time top derby scorer with 10 goals. Surely that gives him a chance of inclusion.
Players from my childhood like Rosler and Kinkladze might be in with a shout too, as may Shaun Goater or Paul Dickov.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

In terms of Premier League era, I'd go for this - albeit only a matter of time until Haaland replaces Agüero.

Agüero
Ronaldo Scholes De Bruyne Beckham
Rodri
Irwin Vidić Ferdinand Walker
Schmeichel​

 

[tenpoless]

Yes. And his name is Preoil McBlue Sauce.