Would anyone explain why this season all went to hell?

[Red_Aaron]

There's plenty of good points regarding the board and long term planning which of course contribute however football is played on the pitch and we've a big squad with plenty of talented players who should be achieving more than they currently are regardless of the state of the board

Main issue of course is we give up way too many chances, this began last season when we regularly conceded first and had to recover results from losing positions (and tbf we got away with it a hell of a lot). This continued at the start of the season too with Leeds and Newcastle having bags of chances in games we won. Defending is a team effort and our attackers are as much to blame as the defenders, we aren't compact enough, our strikers don't work hard enough off the ball, perhaps the Ronaldo signing contributed to this, sancho too maybe but ultimately this is a coaching issue and something the manager/a this season should've been able to address this instead it's been allowed to fester and actually get worse. RR keeps banging on about conceding less goals since his appointment but we've not stopped conceding chances - I've never seen a United side as open as this one

It's curious that perhaps our best defensive performance was likely spurs away under Carrick - we were noticeably compact, I remember Nev referring to it constantly during the game and it was a great away performance and an excellent result. That we were able to produce that immediately after Ole and the run of results he'd had showed these players aren't useless - what they are however is temperamental and clearly need a strong hand to lead them. Carrick may not have been an established manager but he's achievements in the game we're respected and I saw more in his handful of games and anything under Ole or RR this season.

Midfield or course is a massive issue and has been for years. Many here bemoan McFred but without them we're an even bigger shambles. Neither are good enough long term though so even though there were times last season they worked well once their form fell off this season all our chickens came home to roost, trying to shoehorn pogba in there made things even worse as he's probably the most defensively neglegant player in the squad. Midfield is called the engine room for a reason, it sets the tone and teams turn up against us and know they'll be able to dictate the game.

Finally momentum is huge in top level sport. Once the wheels started to come off we didn't do enough to correct it allowing the poor form to manifest and worsen. The compete and utter lack of effort on display over the 3 months has been a disgrace. The appointment of RR and all the narrative around it has only made things worse. Announcing an interim position essentially wrote the season off there and then, this coupled with the amount of players out of contract left the squad in a limbo with no motivation to get out of it.

I'm hanging on to some hope for next season though. If we get a bunch of midfield upgrades and ETH gets a shape back into the side I think we'll comfortably get CL and can go from there

 

[Hoof the ball]

Ed Woodward. The Glazers.

Everything else is downstream.

Saw this yesterday and now I can't unsee it watching the United Stand.

 

[MrBest]

For me, there has been no plan for 10 years. What happened this season is not only a function of what we did this year, but what we haven't done for year 10 years plus. To be more direct, Ed Woodward.

 

[Coy Keane]

We're looking at a melting pot of shite here. You can't really point the finger at one single variable. The club has been run incompetently for far too long. I used to think that Pep and Klopp were the only managers capable of winning a major trophy post Fergie, but recently I've changed my mind. I genuinely don't think that they would have succeeded either.

This does kind of redeem Ole, Mourinho and Van Gaal(Moyes can only blame himself). At least to a certain degree. I can perhaps agree that none of them were good enough to begin with, but they also achieved just about what you could expect from their players(until they suddenly didn't). The bare minimum, if you will. I think long-term planning and good transfers are key. And it should probably be a coordinated effort between the manager and the club. You need people who understand football, good negotiators and money to spend. So far we only seem to have the latter.

As for this season in particular, I think everything went wrong at the same time. Most of our core came back from the Euros in ridiculously poor form and we didn't strengthen the midfield. This all culminated in disaster, and the for the first time since Ole took over you could tell that there was a negativity behind the scenes that not even his positive persona could fix.

Perhaps a better manager would have drilled the players better so that they could deal with darker times by playing on "autopilot" and grinding out OK results purely based on their system, but that is for the people who have the full story to decide. Regardless, everything went wrong: the players were poor individually, the overall play was the worst it had been under Ole and the dressing room was eventually lost.

I think sacking Ole was the right decision, but for every passing day it becomes clearer and clearer that the players were the biggest problem. It's also ironic that Bruno, Ronaldo, Sancho and DDG are our most important players now. So basically a Fergie player and 3 signings that happened under Ole. I don't know who should be credited for these, but they happened on his watch at least.

That is why I don't want to criticize Rangnick that much. It's not easy to take over mid-season. And the players seem to care even less now.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

do our players actually like each other? Going by what I saw vs Brighton I seriously doubt it

 

[SirAnderson]

Saw this yesterday and now I can't unsee it watching the United Stand.

Woody is Goldbridge's FATHER!!!
It all makes sense now!

 

[Hoof the ball]

Woody is Goldbridge's FATHER!!!
It all makes sense now!

The only explanation surely!

 

[Abraxas]

I think the second place finish created an illusion that we were slightly better and slightly closer to the top than we actually were. I don't really like bringing this up because I despise the argument that there's a weak league to explain a result. 38 game seasons are generally a fair barometer.

However I think the extenuating circumstances around Covid seemed to help us. We have always lacked a bit of energy, fitness, and physical prowess relative to the league and I think flat atmospheres helped to create testimonial paced games. Our better quality players could then get the space to nick results due to "individual brilliance."

That's my best theory on why we achieved a decent finish and yet have fallen so flat this year. We were probably never quite what you'd expect from a team finishing second to City. However, this is just part of the reason there's such a discrepancy. You can then start getting into specifics around our strategic direction, transfers, managers - the lot. They are obviously the big areas that explain why we've fallen so far, but I think there are specific reasons the fall looks so dramatic.

 

[Nobby style]

As a Milan fan I consider myself an expert on mismanagement and mediocrity.


The CR7 return reminded me of our Kaka return in 2013.
A purely nostalgic and idiotic decision which went against the values of the team that had previously managed to finish in top 3.
The 2012 Milan team was a youthful, energetic team which compensated what they lacked in experience and talent with sacrifice and a strong unit.
You were going for high press and then you signed a 37 year old Cristiano Ronaldo?

Another thing which reminds me of our decade long mediocrity is the constant change of systems or "tactical revolutions", new gimmicks.
A classic British manager in Moyes, 90s totaalvoetball with Van Gaal, then ultra pragmatism with Mourinho, "the United way" with Solskjaer, now gegenpressing with Rangnick, next season modern totalvoetball with Ten Hag?
It's as if the club is ruled by the dumber half of online communities, who can't look beyond hype and end product. The players and coaches that the club is signing are the ones that create most fan excitement, initially at least. Corporate people with no football vision.

I don't think you'll get out of this cycle until your upper management give the keys to proper technical directors with a vision that doesn't depend on fan sentiments.
Rangnick was never good as a coach, as Milan fan I'm glad we dodged that bullet. But he might be able to steer you out of this in an executive non-coach role.

Absurd CR7 point. Kaka was shite and netted about 10 goals, Ronaldo has been brilliant for us and stuffed in like 25 goals, kept us in the Champions league and we would never have made the Europa League without him. You could argue we would be in a relegation battle without him. And he hasn't looked that bad in the high press. Also looks like the only one who gives a shit. Far from an idiotic decision, he's what salvaged this season. . Since when has signing a 25 goal scorer been an "idiotic decision"??? Idiotic opinion on Ronaldo more like it. Who would've scored the goals for us this year?

Seems pretty simple our shiteness . . . every single side, including Norwich, looks better coached than us.

 

[Abraxas]

Absurd CR7 point. Kaka was shite and netted about 10 goals, Ronaldo has been brilliant for us and stuffed in like 25 goals, kept us in the Champions league and we would never have made the Europa League without him. You could argue we would be in a relegation battle without him. And he hasn't looked that bad in the high press. Also looks like the only one who gives a shit. Far from an idiotic decision, he's what salvaged this season. . Since when has signing a 25 goal scorer been an "idiotic decision"??? Idiotic opinion on Ronaldo more like it. Who would've scored the goals for us this year?

Seems pretty simple our shiteness . . . every single side, including Norwich, looks better coached than us.

I think you might be extending yourself into hyperbole there. You just concentrate on us a lot more than Norwich. What exactly have they been coached to do, let in 3 times as many goals as they score? They've also had to sack a coach such has been their good coaching.

It's all relative to the players of course, but contrary to what this place makes out, football doesn't revolve around us. There are plenty of other totally shite teams with shit coaches.

 

[Nobby style]

I think you might be extending yourself into hyperbole there. You just concentrate on us a lot more than Norwich. What exactly have they been coached to do, let in 3 times as many goals as they score? They've also had to sack a coach such has been their good coaching.

It's all relative to the players of course, but contrary to what this place makes out, football doesn't revolve around us. There are plenty of other totally shite teams with shit coaches.

I think the biggest difference between United and Norwich City is Cristiano Ronaldo (and of course the money spent), which is kind of the point I was making before.

 

[Kinky Melinky]

Ronaldo should not have been brought back. He is a different player now and needs team to work for him - we don't have that kind of midfield. Maguire was sh1t. Pogba was sh1t. Fernandes' form was not as good as previous season. Ole was clueless on how to adjust, Rangnick is average manager at best, totally not ready for England, probably not ready to manage Norwich, let alone Man Utd. Yeah, not much silver lining this season. Total sh1t.

You do realize that without Ronaldo we would probably have finished 12th, and I'm no fanboi. Himself and DDG were our star (used loosely) players this season.

 

[AndySmith1990]

You do realize that without Ronaldo we would probably have finished 12th, and I'm no fanboi. Himself and DDG were our star (used loosely) players this season.

We wouldn't have finished 12th though, unless we'd have been starting with 10 men. Football isn't so linear and simplistic that removing one player from a team instantly removes all the points that player contributed towards with their goals

 

[GueRed]

- Defensively as a team we are awful. Defending starts from the front. Our attackers are fecking lazy. They are as much to blame as well as the midfield for our porous defending.. Right from the get go this season players haven't been putting a shift in. Every game we are as open as feck and easy to get got at.

We always look disjointed, a part of this problem is in the coaching imo...Ole deserved the sack and Ralf has been disappointing

- Our most important players having poor seasons
Shaw, Rashford, Maguire and Bruno had good seasons last year. This year they've been very poor.

Too many others players off form hasn't helped. Varane, McTominay, Wan Bisakka, Pogba...You can get away with one or two having stinkers but not a whole fecking team.

- The fringe players also aren't good enough imo or injury prone. Useless. We have too many of them hanging around. People like Bailly and Lingard moaning from the sidelines has not helped at all.

- Greenwood charged has seriously limited up our striking options. Because of this and Cavani's vanishing act we're having to relying on a 37yr old Ronaldo to lead our attack week in week out..shocking for a club our size.

- I also think since getting dumped out of the champions league a lot of players like the fans have mentally checked out which is an absolute disgrace in my honest opinion.

 

[Marwood]

People underestimate or don't appreciate the psychological damage the first half of the season did. The team is fecking fragile.

Ralf came in and at least solidified them for a bit, but once City carved us open again at the Etihad they were never going to recover.

There's a reason the likes of Madrid, Bayern and co don't let their teams get humiliated week after week in the fashion we did until we finally sacked Ole. But the ship had well & truly sunk by then.

It's why I'm worried about next season now. We might have finally landed a good manager but we're going to give him an incredibly fragile team.

Agree with this.

On top of existing problems(not keeping the ball, not workng hard enough off it) the massive hit to confidence has been biggest difference this season. They're so fragile now and its got to previously consistent performers like Maguire and Shaw.

I think its mentally got to the players so much that new faces are the only solution.

We have to go for it this summer in a pretty unprecedented fashion. The only way.

 

[Bestietom]

It's not just the team managers wev'e had for the last 10 years. It is bad CLUB management from the board and Glazers that has caused our club to sink so low.
While other clubs are building New state of the art stadiums and training grounds as well as bringing in top players we are falling further and further away from the pack in every way.
Our stadium is badly in need of a revamp as well as our training ground. We should have a stadium which can house 85-90 thousand as we have the fans that would fill it every other week.
NOW where do I start about our team and the need to invest heavily for the next few years starting now.
We need 6 players this summer to start our rebuild.
CB, RB, DM, CM, RW, CF. and these should all be TOP players. We have to show the world that we are still the biggest club and can attract the best players.
Remember success on the pitch brings more riches off it regarding sponsorship and other deals. So wake up Glazers and either put the monies into the team and club rebuilding. or sell to someone that will.

 

[Lentwood]

I am sure we have had a number of very similar threads....

For me, it boils down to a total lack of preparation pre-season with respect the style of football we actually intended to play.

I think Solskjaer did some good work at United, but I believe his attempts to make the transition from a middle-block/counter-attacking team to a progressive press and a high-line were too much for him and his staff.

Even from the Wolves game onwards, it was very obvious we were going to have serious issues with shape and structure. We should have lost that game 3-0/4-0 and Wolves didn't even have a senior CF on the pitch.

It was always going to be an almost impossible job for Rangnick to come in pre-season, take a side low on confidence, in the middle of any incredibly busy spell of games, and coach a new style and system into them. Klopp pointed out as much in one of his very first interviews after RR was appointed.

This does, however, give me optimism for next season. Contrary to popular belief, I do think we have maybe 6/7 players that could play an aggressive, pressing style, if this is the way ETH wants to set-up. I think more thorough work on the training field, clarity of ideas and a bit of belief will go a long way and we should at least be able to get top four next season imo and build from there

 

[Born2Lose]

Injection of a real world class player with the dedication and ambition to match into a dressing room of world class losers probably didn't help. Overall I'm sort of optimistic that even if the club doesn't get back to winning stuff in the short term that at least it'll be worth watching them play.

I think guys like Lingard throwing a strop as they realise the party is ending should be seen as a sign of optimism for the longer term.

 

[ExoduS]

You do realize that without Ronaldo we would probably have finished 12th, and I'm no fanboi. Himself and DDG were our star (used loosely) players this season.

Adding Ronaldo's goals and DDG's saves appears as empirical data of the contribution of each player, but it's not how football really works. One thing that I forgot is that Greenwood got into trouble which also contributed to our crap season. In my opinion Ronaldo's arrival negatively affected many players' morale for whatever reason. I have no proof of that, but something broke. This team didn't play with Ronaldo.