Messi is included in my point, him and C Ronaldo (early years C Ronaldo at least) are probably the last who fall into that category of great entertainers. Neymar to a point as well but you can see now how different the game is?
This is bang on. The player I always think of in this context is Le Tissier. Won nothing, but a joy to watch and a player who gave joy and excitement to so many people.
Ah fair enough, thought you weren't including them. Neymar has to be included though mate, even if you don't like him or think he was as good (I don't think he was as good an all-round player either). His dribbling and skills are pretty sensational tbh and always have been. I'm not sure if there were really more of these dribblers/entertainers in the 90s or if that's just conflating time periods to feel like there were. Ronaldo was called O Fenomeno for a reason, it wasn't like there were loads of players doing that at the time. Maradona was a different generation to Ronaldo, just as Cruyff was a different generation to Maradona, just as Pele was a different generation to Cruyff.
I did include Neymar but you can see how much he's been 'tamed' by the professionalism/money of European football compared to his Santos days.
What does this "tame" term even mean regarding Neymar?
So many around that United haven’t got one. He is the player that United could do with most as Rashford is hot and cold , no doubt ETH has Dutch Steve McLaren scouring the Dutch leagues for the next United centre forward
Just watch him at Santos
Yeah I think the Messi-Maradona-Pele triumvirate would look differently. If he hadn't gotten injured, we might well be talking about him being the greatest ever.
Tbf in this case, it'd totally warranted to make the comparison, when people say would he be as adored and I think not with two other better players at the time. I don't think any players in the Messi/Ronaldo era are universally adored because there's such a gap between them and everyone elseEvery conversation in a longish thread at redcafe denigrates to Ronaldo original vs C Ronaldo vs Messi....longevity/peak/entertainment/knees...
All these posters need to be banned
Except that R9 was better than both of them at the start of his career. So this point doesn't make sense. If he'd had exactly the same career in this era (which is unlikely), there are definitely periods in which he would have been considered to be better than the other two, chiefly at the beginning and perhaps during wotld Cups (and international competitions generally), where he was dominating and the other 2 were failing to deliver on the biggest stages.
Yep. People underestimate goal inflation in the super team era. R9 was basically a superior version of Mbappe and look how much hype he has.
Absolutely. If anything it's even harder to find a top CF now and he stood out in an era packed full of them. He had literally everything you'd want in a CF except I didn't see him score so many with his head. With more attacking support in the current systems of wide attackers, he'd be completely uncontrollable.
Well sort of, but whatever he did in the Dutch league wouldn't really have him considered as anything more than a great prospect and while crisitano was certainly a late bloomer, Brazilian Ronaldo would have had maybe one season where he was better than Messi. 07-08 assuming they were both born in the same year, though then it would he debatable between him and cristiano that year.
He was also outscored by Oliver bierhoff in serie A
Except it isn't really true.
Yeah and much of those goals were stat padding against hopelessly outmatched smaller teams.
And yet the seasons after they left somehow the smaller teams were no longer hopelessly outmatched. Real Madrid went from 3 champions league in a row to a last 16 exit, after 8 consecutive semi finals with Ronaldo
Wrong. He is judged in context. As a teen, he was a better player than Messi and especially CR7, who was pretty average as a teen by the standards of the greatest ever players. Then he got an injury that would have ended his career in an earlier era. Messi and Ronaldo never had to deal with any serious or career threatening injuries.
And immediately after Ronaldo left, real managed 63 league goals suggesting he was the biggest reason for the enormous gap
And he's also judged through nostalgia unless you're denying that nostalgia exists at all. he also has the advantage that the majority saw highlights of him and not full hd games every week
Actually not an advantage at all
La Liga GPG was also inflated by 2 ATG playing at the same time and basically scoring at record breaking rate (by pre-Messi/Cristiano era standards) every single season, Since both Messi and Cristiano left La Liga GPG became the lowest in Europe, Failing to break 2.5.
Equalizing+Leading goals (peak):
Of course it's an advantage, because people didn't see much of ronaldo's worst games whwreas current players get analysed to death
People also missed a lot of Ronaldos greatness
It's still not an advantage, you could make a highlights video where cristiano looks like the greatest free kick taker ever because the highlights would be the successful ones and not the misses. Ronaldo didn't play in the 70s, there aren't wonder goals he scored lost to time, never captured on camera
I watched a lot of Ronaldo at Barca and Inter, highlights don't do him justice
We've already discussed this re nostalgia, it's a nonsense argument used by people who never actually saw a player. It's a bit rich of a person with no memory of a player to say to someone who saw them "you dont remember it right" Well you dont remember it at all bud, who's in the better position?
This seems to be a running theme with r9 fans, highlights don't do him justice, trophies won don't do him justice, goals scored don't do him justice, detailed statistics don't do him justice, the only thing that does he justice is the subjective opinions of his super fans
Didn't mention this.
You keep doing this weird thing where you equate importance with judging ability. The world cup happens only every 4 years, it used to be the best level (though clearly isn't any more) there's only been 23 world cups ever and it's usually free to air or widely available around the world, moreso than club football. So yes it's a very important tournament.
I mean it's a running theme through this thread not with you particularly. Any attempt to objectively compare him to current players is dismissed. Trophies, stats, highlights, etc
