Would you take Ralf Rangnick as manager?

[glazed]

How about Maguire , Fred , Matic.
Our recruitment age profile composition is not much different from other Clubs it's just that we have invested our resources poorly there is no need for any deeper analysis .

I think 25 is about the upper limit of the comfort zone, which is where Fred and Maguire were. Varane and Matic were real outliers to the policy - Varane of course was a fire sale bargain though. The policy was most clearly seen in the refusal to buy Alderweireld.

 

[macheda14]

Look at the age profile. We like to buy younger players so that they retain their capital asset value, which helps with the share price. Shaw was a teenager when he signed. That's how we operate. Young for asset value. Old on a free. Don't buy players at the peak

Varane and Maguire were both bought in their late twenties for a combined 120 million. Honestly you’re chatting such breeze it’s crazy.

You also say Conte wouldn’t have joined because he would have wanted assurances. Are you seriously saying Levy and Spurs offered him a higher transfer budget than he would get here? You’ve backed yourself into a corner and are trying to get out by making inconsistent arguments. There are many reasons a manager may not want to come here, but being backed in the transfer market is not one of them.

 

[Teja]

Look at the age profile. We like to buy younger players so that they retain their capital asset value, which helps with the share price. Shaw was a teenager when he signed. That's how we operate. Young for asset value. Old on a free. Don't buy players at the peak

It's how you run transfers in football these days, not really a United-only thing.

Pool are probably going to ditch Salah and Mane despite Salah saying he would love to retire at Pool, I'm confident about it. Likewise Chelsea with Rudiger (who's going to be 29 end of the season). Unlikely to get a long, expensive contract regardless of how well he's playing.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

its amazing the myth we invested resources poorly under the current regime persist

 

[glazed]

Varane and Maguire were both bought in their late twenties for a combined 120 million. Honestly you’re chatting such breeze it’s crazy.
here, but being backed in the transfer market is not one of them.

Maguire is one month older than Varane. Do you think they were bought at the same time? Who is chatting breeze here?

Maguire had just turned 26 when he was bought. Fred was 25. Varane was the outlier being at his peak age of 28 but he was a bargain.

You also say Conte wouldn’t have joined because he would have wanted assurances. Are you seriously saying Levy and Spurs offered him a higher transfer budget than he would get here? You’ve backed yourself into a corner and are trying to get out by making inconsistent arguments. There are many reasons a manager may not want to come but being backed in the transfer market is not one of them.

Tell that to Jose. And while Spurs won't give him a decent transfer budget, not will he have the same level of expectation. And he will at least have control of who is bought. Quite different from a squad with a massive gaping hole in midfield and owners saying fek off to a January purchase and still expecting you to make top four.

 

[sparx99]

Maguire is one month older than Varane. Do you think they were bought at the same time? Who is chatting breeze here?

Maguire had just turned 26 when he was bought. Fred was 25. Varane was the outlier being at his peak age of 28 but he was a bargain.



Tell that to Jose. And while Spurs won't give him a decent transfer budget, not will he have the same level of expectation. And he will at least have control of who is bought. Quite different from a squad with a massive gaping hole in midfield and owners saying fek off to a January purchase and still expecting you to make top four.

You don’t think we’d look at a central midfielder in January? We bought Bruno in January before and a new manager may we’ll want one signing. It would likely come from the following summers budget but so what?

It’s also possible Dalot, Lingard, Van De Beek etc would be moved on if they don’t get a second chance with the new boss meaning funds would be available.

 

[macheda14]

Maguire is one month older than Varane. Do you think they were bought at the same time? Who is chatting breeze here?

Maguire had just turned 26 when he was bought. Fred was 25. Varane was the outlier being at his peak age of 28 but he was a bargain.



Tell that to Jose. And while Spurs won't give him a decent transfer budget, not will he have the same level of expectation. And he will at least have control of who is bought. Quite different from a squad with a massive gaping hole in midfield and owners saying fek off to a January purchase and still expecting you to make top four.

I was using them both as examples. Maguire was bought at 26 so entering his peak and offering us limited resale value also for a world record fee for a defender. The board also bought us a world class defender this season when you said a manger would be clamouring for one - we bought one.

Jose wasn’t bought another defender after having bought 2 himself (that he sanctioned and scouted). Also if we’re going to look at our boards compared to others in terms of ‘not backing their managers’ Conte fell out with Chelsea when they didn’t buy him Lukaku and Van Dijk.

If Ole wanted a DM he should have bought one. Sancho was his call. If a new manager comes in we 100 percent gave the squad to get top 4. We came 2nd last season with a worse squad. Next summer you’ll see whoever is in get 1 marquee signing, 1 middle fee signing and either one youngster/squad player/experienced head. It’s been well reported that that is the allowance according to the athletic and a few other publications. This is better than Liverpool get.

Our lack of success isn’t due to not being financially backed. It’s due to the managers we have chosen to hire and our inconsistent transfer spending due to having no lasting footballing structure between managers. You could argue that we should be able to afford more as the Glazers are taking dividends and we have debt repayment, which in turn would give us a higher transfer budget than pretty much anyone including the oil clubs. BUT we have outspent every single other club in the league since 2013. We spend money. Managers can come and spend the money as poorly as they want. That’s not why they would choose not to come here. However we do have a budget of circa 120 million to spend each season. So if you spend that then you have to wait until next summer to spend it again. It’s a pretty normal way to run a club in regards to transfer spending.

 

[glazed]

If Ole wanted a DM he should have bought one. Sancho was his call.

See this is the heart of your argument and I don't think it's true. Yes he wanted Sancho and Sancho was his call from the available options. But if he had been offered Bellingham instead or the French guy who went to Madrid I think he would have taken him. But that wasn't an option. There was no available teenage superstar DM near the end of their contract to grab. There was just people mid contract and over priced. And our club doesn't buy those people, by and large.

Ole will put a good face on it publicly, but he still wasn't above leaking that he had wanted a DM and the club said no. And yet they did give him Ronaldo because they don't make decisions based on football. Which is why a Conte would want guarantees before being asked to carry the can for the decision made in this Disneyland fiasco of a club.

 

[macheda14]

See this is the heart of your argument and I don't think it's true. Yes he wanted Sancho and Sancho was his call from the available options. But if he had been offered Bellingham instead or the French guy who went to Madrid I think he would have taken him. But that wasn't an option. There was no available teenage superstar DM near the end of their contract to grab. There was just people mid contract and over priced. And our club doesn't buy those people, by and large.

Ole will put a good face on it publicly, but he still wasn't above leaking that he had wanted a DM and the club said no. And yet they did give him Ronaldo because they don't make decisions based on football. Which is why a Conte would want guarantees before being asked to carry the can for the decision made in this Disneyland fiasco of a club.

We tried for Bellingham the season before and we were well reported to have enquired about Camavinga but he decided to go to Real.

So wait we don’t buy players like Maguire, mid contract and overpriced. Or Lukaku, mid contract and over priced?

Again we’ll reported that Ole was interested in Rice - no way we were spending another 80 million. It’s again also reported that he was annoyed at the scouting department because they couldn’t find a player like Kroos or Carrick for around 4.

He was given Ronaldo because the budget was there for an extra 15 million.

Anyway, me and multiple others disagree vehemently with your position that a manger wouldn’t come here because they wouldn’t get the players they want, when since Moyes we’ve spent an extortionate amount of money. Money pretty much every manager in the world would love to play with. However you’re stuck on your side of the argument, so let’s stop derailing the thread further.

 

[Reapersoul20]

its amazing the myth we invested resources poorly under the current regime persist

I think I agree with you, but I mean is it that amazing if people don't rate Maguire/AWB/DVB as good investments?

 

[Rusholme Ruffian]

its amazing the myth we invested resources poorly under the current regime persist

I wonder what Maguire, AWB, Van de Beek, Sancho and Diallo would be worth if we came to sell them now?

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I think I agree with you, but I mean is it that amazing if people don't rate Maguire/AWB/DVB as good investments?

Yes. It really is

 

[glazed]

So wait we don’t buy players like Maguire, mid contract and overpriced. Or Lukaku, mid contract and over priced?

Not when they go much past 26. Not usually

However you’re stuck on your side of the argument, so let’s stop derailing the thread further.

Happy with my side of the argument. If we end up with more Ole and then Bodger then I told you so. If Poch or Ten Hag comes then you were right.

 

[Reapersoul20]

Yes. It really is

Why?

 

[Hansi Fick]

I think most who would take the job as manager would want a guarantee of funds to improve the team.
Anyone who thinks that what we have will go on and win the Premiership or Champions League is living in Cuckoo land.
The club is in a state where we cannot get rid of the deadwood, and won't play the players we brought in.
We need big changes and not just a new manager.

On the contrary I would almost say your board should demand from a new manager that he works with the players he has and doesn't get more than one or two medium-expensive signings next summer. That should be a condition in hiring talks.
What needs to happen is that you make use of what you have.

Obviously if you get Haaland or such you can always buy them anyway, but it shouldn't be a narrative the new manager can lean on.

 

[glazed]

its amazing the myth we invested resources poorly under the current regime persist

We have some very good players. We just don't have a very good team. That's partly coaching but partly the randomness in football terms of the players we buy.

 

[croadyman]

See this is the heart of your argument and I don't think it's true. Yes he wanted Sancho and Sancho was his call from the available options. But if he had been offered Bellingham instead or the French guy who went to Madrid I think he would have taken him. But that wasn't an option. There was no available teenage superstar DM near the end of their contract to grab. There was just people mid contract and over priced. And our club doesn't buy those people, by and large.

Ole will put a good face on it publicly, but he still wasn't above leaking that he had wanted a DM and the club said no. And yet they did give him Ronaldo because they don't make decisions based on football. Which is why a Conte would want guarantees before being asked to carry the can for the decision made in this Disneyland fiasco of a club.

Yeah that word rightly made Klopp run a mile from our joke of a club

 

[mav_9me]

I think most who would take the job as manager would want a guarantee of funds to improve the team.
Anyone who thinks that what we have will go on and win the Premiership or Champions League is living in Cuckoo land.
The club is in a state where we cannot get rid of the deadwood, and won't play the players we brought in.
We need big changes and not just a new manager.

Couldn't disagree more. Bayern's transformation under Flick and Chelsea's under Tuchel should be the goal for us and whoever we hire.

 

[Seij]

I wonder what Maguire, AWB, Van de Beek, Sancho and Diallo would be worth if we came to sell them now?

40M, 18M, 15M, 60M, 10M.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We have some very good players. We just don't have a very good team. That's partly coaching but partly the randomness in football terms of the players we buy.

There hasn't been a thing random about who we have bought since Ole got in charge. We have steadily built a squad in which the ONLY role we are actually shirt in is defensive midfield. We are only not looking like a team at the minute due to poor form of the regulars and poor decisions this season from the coaching staff.

Not because we signed x or y as a player.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Why?

because it's rather obvious they improved us tremendously since they were signed. People acting in here like chicken and suddenly forgetting it because they have hit a bad patch of form doesn't suddenly erase that reality.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I wonder what Maguire, AWB, Van de Beek, Sancho and Diallo would be worth if we came to sell them now?

If we were a club good at selling. We'd get good money back for all of them.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Couldn't disagree more. Bayern's transformation under Flick and Chelsea's under Tuchel should be the goal for us and whoever we hire.

Pretty much this. Hire the right qualified right fit and you can do wonders.

 

[glazed]

There hasn't been a thing random about who we have bought since Ole got in charge. We have steadily built a squad in which the ONLY role we are actually shirt in is defensive midfield. We are only not looking like a team at the minute due to poor form of the regulars and poor decisions this season from the coaching staff.

Not because we signed x or y as a player.

Do you think a centre forward was a priority when we signed Ronaldo?
Do you think we have a clear pattern of play that dictates our transfer policy?
Do you think most of our goals come from team effort rather than individual inspiration?

If the answer to the above is no then you might need to re-examine your take.

 

[golden_blunder]

Too many threads open discussing same stuff

please use this thread until there’s something concrete to discuss about an incoming new manager

https://www.redcafe.net/threads/next-manager.458681/page-120#post-28063549