Would you watch a European Super League?

[sun_tzu]

Yes - though my gut feel is a European Super League will be a midweek league

The New Cl format requires 19 match rounds and it would be pretty easy to get in another 4 or 5 matches if the clubs in a super league agreed to fly to dubai or china or USA etc for a bunch of games in the winter break

that would give you easy options of two leagues of 8 playing each other home, away and at a neutral venue (middle east, china, america type cash cow) then put the top 4 from each league into an end of season knock out format

16 teams could be something like

United, City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Arsenal, Spurs
Bayern, Dortmund, RB Leipzig
Real, Barca, Athletico
Juve, Inter, AC
PSG

All could compete in their domestic leagues - there would be no FFP restrictions as it wouldnt be a UEFA competition - closed shop let clubs sell the rights to their home games and split all the revenue from the neutral games ... Think all the clubs would sign up for something like that ... Of course all would pretty much be guaranteed to be chasing for their domestic titles given the financial advantages they woudl enjoy - but hey look they all do now anyway

21 league games (7 home, 7 away, 7 neutral... played say 3 in Asia pre season and 4 in Middle east in winter break)... (money from neutral games shared between all clubs)
at the end of the season 8 teams (top 4 from each league) play 3 more neutral games (round of 8, round of 4 and final in America )... (money from these games shared between the clubs involved)
24 games - easily as managable as the new Cl format - games around the world and huge tv rights plus no need to leave their domestic leagues.

Yeah Id rather watch that than the new CL format thats been proposed

 

[diarm]

It is funny seeing fans moan about "plastic" clubs and at the same time creating a league for the "traditional elite" clubs that locks out the rest of football.

Just to be clear, I am against the creation of a super league just as much as I am against the plastic clubs. I just happen to think state ownership of clubs is a bigger danger to the game at all levels than a "traditional elite".

For what it's worth, I would have the Champions League kept at 32 teams with the 8 best leagues in the coefficient getting 2 spaces each (one for the league winners and one for the cup winners), the next best 8 leagues getting one space each (for their league winners) and the rest of the league winners in Europe entering a qualifying round for the last 8 spaces.

I've just accepted that what is right for the game is never going to happen. The horse has bolted and if every club is just going to look out for themselves, we may as well do something to protect ourselves from state owned clubs with limitless funds and zero accountability.

 

[RobinLFC]

I'm against a Super League but I'd still watch the occasional game (and most Liverpool games) should it eventually happen, yeah.

 

[meamth]

Of course I would! But only if it's like 4 year once thing..

 

[BeforeKeanetherewasRobson]

No.

"even the ones who say no would"..... no.

 

[RobinLFC]

Might become a lot more interesting if they installed a Draft system where all Super League teams get to draft players from teams in domestic leagues after every season.

 

[Thunderhead]

Just to be clear, I am against the creation of a super league just as much as I am against the plastic clubs. I just happen to think state ownership of clubs is a bigger danger to the game at all levels than a "traditional elite".

For what it's worth, I would have the Champions League kept at 32 teams with the 8 best leagues in the coefficient getting 2 spaces each (one for the league winners and one for the cup winners), the next best 8 leagues getting one space each (for their league winners) and the rest of the league winners in Europe entering a qualifying round for the last 8 spaces.

I've just accepted that what is right for the game is never going to happen. The horse has bolted and if every club is just going to look out for themselves, we may as well do something to protect ourselves from state owned clubs with limitless funds and zero accountability.

It was United along with Liverpool Spurs Everton that started this I'm ok guv you lot feck off attitude back in the early 80's and which they continued with the Premier League and then the Champions League ffs, so don't come blaming all the other clubs now, once huge sums of money become involved in anything then seriously mega rich people become involved and it'll get far far worse in years to come.

If United didn't have owners taking hundreds of millions out of the club then you probably wouldn't give a shite as you'd still be challenging for honours every season.

 

[Thunderhead]

Might become a lot more interesting if they installed a Draft system where all Super League teams get to draft players from teams in domestic leagues after every season.

how would that work? clubs aren't going to throw money into developing talent for it to then be drafted away.

 

[RUCK4444]

To be honest I struggle to barely watch our league games, I'm growing so uninterested in football compared to how much I watched in the past. Used to watch all PL, La Liga, CL - as much as I could.

Sort of fallen out of love with the game since the introduction of VAR then the empty stadiums since then and yeah, meh.

 

[alexthelion]

Simple question. I'm coming to believe that it would be the one step that made me give up supporting Chelsea after 40 years, something I never thought was possible.

Even setting aside all the unsporting, unfair, money obsessed bullshit aspects of it, frankly it just sounds really, really dull.

So what say you? Does anyone actually want this elitist system to happen?

Don't want it and wouldn't watch.

 

[RobinLFC]

how would that work? clubs aren't going to throw money into developing talent for it to then be drafted away.

Domestic clubs would just be the peasants of the Super League teams anyway. Come to think of it, we should probably call the domestic leagues D-leagues, let every Super League team choose one domestic team per country which they can then use as their development team to stall talented young players for a year or two. Let's call it the Chelsea/Vitesse rule. Also if your D-league team ends in the top 4 of its league, you get +5 bonus points as their Super League team owner.

 

[Thunderhead]

Domestic clubs would just be the peasants of the Super League teams anyway. Come to think of it, we should probably call the domestic leagues D-leagues, let every Super League team choose one domestic team per country which they can then use as their development team to stall talented young players for a year or two. Let's call it the Chelsea/Vitesse rule. Also if your D-league team ends in the top 4 of its league, you get +5 bonus points as their Super League team owner.

hahaha nope not sure if you're wumming or not but no thanks, and proud clubs with 100 years of history even in the lower leagues won't want to be feeder teams

 

[RobinLFC]

hahaha nope not sure if you're wumming or not but no thanks, and proud clubs with 100 years of history even in the lower leagues won't want to be feeder teams

Of course they wouldn't and rightfully so imo. If even most on here (fans of Utd) are against it, you can imagine how this will be received by fans of teams that wouldn't qualify for the Super League.

 

[adexkola]

Just to be clear, I am against the creation of a super league just as much as I am against the plastic clubs. I just happen to think state ownership of clubs is a bigger danger to the game at all levels than a "traditional elite".

For what it's worth, I would have the Champions League kept at 32 teams with the 8 best leagues in the coefficient getting 2 spaces each (one for the league winners and one for the cup winners), the next best 8 leagues getting one space each (for their league winners) and the rest of the league winners in Europe entering a qualifying round for the last 8 spaces.

I've just accepted that what is right for the game is never going to happen. The horse has bolted and if every club is just going to look out for themselves, we may as well do something to protect ourselves from state owned clubs with limitless funds and zero accountability.

I agree with this, but the barrier caused by the inherent advantage of the traditional elite has (at least partly) led to the rise of these state owned clubs.

Definitely understand your stance and agree with your ideal solution. For me, if the solution is for traditional elite clubs to turn their back on football pyramid structures across Europe and ring themselves in (baking in their privilege), that's the death of football as far as I'm concerned. There's no reason for me to support a team that participates in this. Don't think I'd jump to another team, I'd just lapse back to neutral status.

 

[SadlerMUFC]

Of course I'd watch it. I just don't see the point of it. What's wrong with the current system???

 

[diarm]

Of course I'd watch it. I just don't see the point of it. What's wrong with the current system???

Depends on who you ask.

The owners of Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus or Bayern Munich would say the current system doesn't let them earn enough in comparison to their Premier League counterparts.
The owners of United or Liverpool would say the current system means they have to keep investing in the squad in order to qualify for it.
The owners of City or PSG wouldn't say anything because they don't care what system they're a part of when the rules don't apply to them anyway.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Yh I’m not sure really - there’s definitely a lot less romance in football these days with everything being a bit more corporate.

I’d imagine it has a lot to do with your age. I’m mid thirties and see nothing wrong with the CL format now (there are some dud teams who sneak in but it’s generally the highest level ofteams you can find) and the idea of a Super League just bores me a bit. Part of the magic of the CL is that you play teams you rarely come up against and have those away day memories but the Super League will kill that within a few seasons.

 

[ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg]

Simple question. I'm coming to believe that it would be the one step that made me give up supporting Chelsea after 40 years, something I never thought was possible.

Even setting aside all the unsporting, unfair, money obsessed bullshit aspects of it, frankly it just sounds really, really dull.

So what say you? Does anyone actually want this elitist system to happen?

Is this instead of a domestic league?

it would be pretty awful, and would destroy domestic leagues.

if it was a league of 10-12 teams, you could play that alongside domestic. But again takes away the magic.

would I watch it yes, would it be shit, yes.

 

[Lentwood]

Spoken like a fan of one of the giant clubs. I'm fairly sure fans of Burnley and WBA care quite a lot. There's 92 teams in the PL and EFL leagues, and they all have their own dedicated fanbase. I'm really not sure that a handful of big teams buggering off to play in Europe is going to somehow destroy the rest of English football.

Well then it's win-win isn't it? Let the smaller clubs compete in a level-playing field. Why would it matter to fans of Burnley or WBA or Plymouth or Cheltenham Town what Manchester United and Chelsea were doing?

Think about it from a fans perspective - fans of top clubs are happy because they get to see their teams engage in quality matches against quality opponents week-in, week-out. Imagine sitting down on a Friday night to watch a game of football and it's Barcelona vs Man City or Manchester Utd vs Juventus....these games would draw fans in. It would be relentless and entertaining...when your fixture list looks like Real Madrid (A), Bayern Munich (H), Man City (A), PSG (H) etc...you would HAVE to find a way to win these games, no good just trying to play out draws and beat the fodder like is the current tactic for most of the top sides currently in the PL.

As a former ST holder at United (most of 2005-2018) I became bored beyond belief. Who wants to spend £50 watching the same old crap over and over? You want the big games. I remember whenever the Champions League draws came out I was hoping for a tough draw! What games stand out in my memories of going to United? Beating AC Milan 3-2 at OT. Beating Barcelona 1-0 at OT. Beating Chelsea 1-0 with the Darren Fletcher looping header. Electric atmosphere's, high-quality football...give me that any day over attack vs defence against teams with 1/20th of the budget every week!

What 'treat' are we being served up in domestic football this Friday night? Fulham vs Wolves, with the only interest for those two teams ever being not getting relegated and at best, scraping a Europa League place. Fantastic. Their fans must be thrilled. Surely they would like to go into each season thinking 'with a bit of luck and a couple of new signings we could win the league!'?

Plus...think of the European away games every other weekend...fans would love it! Barcelona or Burnley...not a tough choice is it!

 

[Kentonio]

Well then it's win-win isn't it? Let the smaller clubs compete in a level-playing field. Why would it matter to fans of Burnley or WBA or Plymouth or Cheltenham Town what Manchester United and Chelsea were doing?

Think about it from a fans perspective - fans of top clubs are happy because they get to see their teams engage in quality matches against quality opponents week-in, week-out. Imagine sitting down on a Friday night to watch a game of football and it's Barcelona vs Man City or Manchester Utd vs Juventus....these games would draw fans in. It would be relentless and entertaining...when your fixture list looks like Real Madrid (A), Bayern Munich (H), Man City (A), PSG (H) etc...you would HAVE to find a way to win these games, no good just trying to play out draws and beat the fodder like is the current tactic for most of the top sides currently in the PL.

As a former ST holder at United (most of 2005-2018) I became bored beyond belief. Who wants to spend £50 watching the same old crap over and over? You want the big games. I remember whenever the Champions League draws came out I was hoping for a tough draw! What games stand out in my memories of going to United? Beating AC Milan 3-2 at OT. Beating Barcelona 1-0 at OT. Beating Chelsea 1-0 with the Darren Fletcher looping header. Electric atmosphere's, high-quality football...give me that any day over attack vs defence against teams with 1/20th of the budget every week!

What 'treat' are we being served up in domestic football this Friday night? Fulham vs Wolves, with the only interest for those two teams ever being not getting relegated and at best, scraping a Europa League place. Fantastic. Their fans must be thrilled. Surely they would like to go into each season thinking 'with a bit of luck and a couple of new signings we could win the league!'?

Plus...think of the European away games every other weekend...fans would love it! Barcelona or Burnley...not a tough choice is it!

I am a fan of a top club, and it would bore the shit out of me. Maybe I'm just old or something but I actually enjoy playing a whole range of teams, and having new teams come up and go down each year. It's part of the magic of football for me. Also watching the rise and fall of clubs over much longer periods. During my youth Sheff Wednesday were a top side, so were Notts Forest, so were Leeds. City were nothing, Arsenal were pretty much unbeatable at another time. Hell, I remember Chelsea getting relegated. It's how things are supposed to work, clubs have their heydays and their troubled times. Any system that locks in the elite clubs and basically says 'We're the best and we're going to make it so we stay the best permanently' is anathema to me.

 

[Demyanenko_square_jaw]

I am a fan of a top club, and it would bore the shit out of me. Maybe I'm just old or something but I actually enjoy playing a whole range of teams, and having new teams come up and go down each year. It's part of the magic of football for me. Also watching the rise and fall of clubs over much longer periods. During my youth Sheff Wednesday were a top side, so were Notts Forest, so were Leeds. City were nothing, Arsenal were pretty much unbeatable at another time. Hell, I remember Chelsea getting relegated. It's how things are supposed to work, clubs have their heydays and their troubled times. Any system that locks in the elite clubs and basically says 'We're the best and we're going to make it so we stay the best permanently' is anathema to me.

This is my view on it. The near closed shop superleague ideas also remind me of rants you would occasionally hear older guys that were still very far-left go on in the early-mid 90s about how capitalism would eventually destroy football, it would be a bit surreal to me to see it actually happen. The Champions League is already close enough to ensuring the current elite keep their dominance long term, that i just don't understand why most want it from a sporting perspective.

 

[Zaphod2319]

Isn't this Super League just a way for some owners to ensure they get CL money without ever needing to qualify for the CL?

It sounds like owners trying to collect money on inferior product.

 

[carvajal]

Yes, and I would watch some more. Normally I watch Madrid + Atlético or Barcelona, but sometimes I don't bother going to the bar with my friends, for example Barcelona-Ferencvaros.
Logically, group matches do not have the tension of a tie, but I would like to start seeing good games from October and not wait for March or April.

 

[crossy1686]

Yes, the Champions League is shit and predictable. It's shite until the quarters/semis and by then you know who's going to win it.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Yes. Even the ones that will say no, will watch it eventually.

Speak for yourself, I definitely wouldn't. I would just watch my local lower league club, as the match day experience is much cheaper and a great day out.

 

[justsomebloke]

No, I don't want it. As a long-time NHL fan, I don't find the franchise system (which this is very obviously a move towards, and which megaclub ownership would obviously love because it would mean not just more revenue, but more predictable revenue) alienating as such. But it just runs so counter to how football is fundamentally organised, you just can't impose it on that without huge destructive consequences. Also, you can't just overlook that what has really mattered for a century or more, and which football fans everywhere are deeply invested in, is the national leagues. That's just arrogant.

Yes, I would watch it, obviously. If that's where United play, that's where United play.

Not sure I'd fork up for a pricey TV subscription for it though. And I'd definitely find it a good deal less engaging than the PL.

 

[Spoony]

For me the game is about domestic rivalries... European games are great but more of a cherry on top.

 

[Zaphod2319]

For me the game is about domestic rivalries... European games are great but more of a cherry on top.

And to add to what you are saying, at least for me, the European games are meaningful because you had to earn the opportunity to be there. Games against the top European teams will lose significance when they are just routinely scheduled.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

It would really kill all the football I love so no. This coming world cup got a bad taste as well, but may watch that since at least the format is fair for every team.

A super league would really stop me watching football I think. Might just follow my local league or not even bother with that one.

 

[Lentwood]

I am a fan of a top club, and it would bore the shit out of me. Maybe I'm just old or something but I actually enjoy playing a whole range of teams, and having new teams come up and go down each year. It's part of the magic of football for me. Also watching the rise and fall of clubs over much longer periods. During my youth Sheff Wednesday were a top side, so were Notts Forest, so were Leeds. City were nothing, Arsenal were pretty much unbeatable at another time. Hell, I remember Chelsea getting relegated. It's how things are supposed to work, clubs have their heydays and their troubled times. Any system that locks in the elite clubs and basically says 'We're the best and we're going to make it so we stay the best permanently' is anathema to me.

Those days are gone whether we have a European Super League or not. I have grown up with United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool being the best teams in the country and that's largely remained unchallenged - with the obvious exception of Manchester City who have had £4.5BN pumped into them to be able to compete.

Nowadays it's barely even a two-horse race. The majority of teams in the league exist just to make the numbers up and nothing more.

 

[justsomebloke]

Set up a draft system where the teams in the super league can draft players from clubs across Europe who were left behind to play in the pointless domestic leagues.

"Everton's top scorer announces his intentions to enter the draft at the conclusion of the current season"

"Feyenoord's CB is projected to go top 5 in this years draft"

"The 2025 winger class is very deep with Lille's [insert name] likely to be the #1 overall pick"

Actually, I don't really think the main problem with a super league is that it'll automatically make other leagues pointless. Obviously, it'd be a huge change for the EPL and La Liga, but pretty much everyone else is already in that position - making do with what's available once the bigger leagues have taken whoever they want. Winning the Eresdivisie isn't pointless just because the best Dutch players are elsewhere. This would just add a new uppermost level to a structure that is already deeply hierarchical. Of course, if it ends up removing whole clubs from the national leagues that'll be worse than just losing the best players, but I think the basic point still applies.

I would be more worried by a few other things.

Firstly, and most obviously, the removal of one's favorite team from the whole context of its history. I find it hard and painful to imagine Manchester United as anything other than a club that competes in England, against English opponents. Maybe a game against Real Madrid is more exciting than a game against Southampton, but it is also - perhaps paradoxically - harder to really care about. It's not central to what the team is about, it's more of a nice bonus. Which is exactly what I'd like european competitions to remain. The history of what we've achieved in the English top flight is what everything is measured against. To lose that seems unimaginable. In an important sense, it would no longer be the same club.

Secondly, the key ingredient in a closed shop super league is that it allows the super league to corner the market in so many ways, all of them to the benefit of their owners and the detriment of everyone else. And it's not just that they'll monopolise the top talent (they already do anyaway) and suck up a bigger share of the tv revenue. What would have an even bigger impact, including on the clubs that participate, is the measures they can take to control costs and enforce competetiveness.

Today, competition among the big clubs is based on the law of the jungle. If you can find the cash, you can do anything. And if you're going to remain a top club, you have no other option but to spend. Hence, much of the fabulous revenue growth disappears directly into wildly escalating trabsfer and wage costs. Once you have a closed shop league, you can limit that hugely. And also such a league system logically requires parity - you're not going to be a very profitable club if you spend season after season getting hammered by Barcelona and Manchester City. A closed league is a move away from a world where each club makes it own success by spending huge resources, to a world where the profitability is corporate, which you maximise by making sure every member is competetive. Hence, you need rules that protect each club from pilfering by other league members and which over time maintain a level playing field - for example, entry drafts which gives the worst-performing clubs the best access to new talent, and salary caps which prevents teams from outspending others on salaries. We are seeing the first outlines of this in the proposal to prohibit transfers between the top-ranked clubs in the proposed new CL format. The same measures keep costs down and increases profits - if you can't move to a different club on the same level, and your wages have to fit within a set total, and your rights are owned by a team who drafted you rather than a team you signed for, it will no longer be the case that growing revenue will so largely drain off into escalating transfer and wage costs. But this would also make it almost impossible to stay perpetually on top. The whole system is constructed to distribute success. You'd have an assured place in the top echelon, but how you do within that echelon will be made to fluctuate. That runs counter to what fans of big clubs are used to expecting, which is perpetual dominance. For the owners though, it's a super sweet package - you can monopolise dominance, get financial predictibility, maximise profits, minimise costs and get more or less guaranteed competitiveness.

Of course, no one has yet proposed a full-fledged franchise-based system, but it is clearly moving in that direction and it's worth reflecting a little over what that means because ultimately it's a system based on a completely different logic than the one we have now. And there's only so much you can do to combine them.

 

[Dr. Mowinckel]

I'd probably watch such a league at first, simply from habit of watching United, but I have a feeling that I would quickly lose interest. I think a large part of the reason that i enjoy football so much more than others sports, is because the "special moments" feel a lot more significant than in most other sports. I think a lot of that comes down to scarcity, which is a rather definitive aspect of football even at the very core of the game through its low-scoring nature. A fantastic solo goal means so much more in football than in basketball or handball for instance, simply because the importance of the a single goal is so much larger.

I think that scarcity is just as important in terms of the schedules in the sport. Its obviously not a matter of preferring to watch United against Crystal Palace rather than Madrid - anyone woud rather watch the Madrid match. It's more a matter of wanting to keep that feeling that a match against Real Madrid or Barcelona is a special occasion; something to get excited about. It's the same with the World Cup happening every 4th year rather than every 2nd like in a lot of sports. It makes the occasion all the more special and I think that is a large factor in why the World Cup is able to pretty much compete with even the Olympics in terms of viewership.

 

[Trequarista10]

I do not like the idea of a European Super League, however a couple years ago I did come up with this idea for how to make it workable and potentially beneficial for all.

Split the season/year into two. Think sort of how the Brazilian league system works, with the national league and regional league. Part one of the season/year there is no European football. All sides compete in their domestic league systems as usual (presumably slightly fewer teams per division, to finish the season within time). As usual, the top sides in the domestic league qualifies for the European football.

Part two of the season/year consists of regional football, and European football. All sides who did not qualify for the super league play in regional divisions within their nation (e.g, a London league, Southern League, Midlands League etc) . This provides an abundance of local derbies. Shorter travel for fans, more passionate games, local/regional bragging rights, small leagues so more crucial matches and less dead rubbers. Provides smaller sides with a chance to win silverware. Simultaneously, the Super League goes on allowing the big boys to make shit loads of money do their thing.

To be honest the more I think about it the more I love this idea. There's loads of scope for it to be made successful. For example, the winners of the regional leagues could face each other in a mini knock out tournament at Wembley at the end of the season, or, each regional league could have a playoff for the title between 1st and 2nd which are all mandatory to be shown live on terrestrial TV. Perhaps the sides who qualify for the super league could even put out an under 23 side to play in the regional divisions, too. Lots of ifs and buts and whatabouts but I think the general concept is great and could please everyone.

 

[Kentonio]

Those days are gone whether we have a European Super League or not. I have grown up with United, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool being the best teams in the country and that's largely remained unchallenged - with the obvious exception of Manchester City who have had £4.5BN pumped into them to be able to compete.

Nowadays it's barely even a two-horse race. The majority of teams in the league exist just to make the numbers up and nothing more.

Barely a two horse race? There's been 4 different champions in just 5 years.

 

[Robertd0803]

Anything we are in Ill watch. Ill keep an eye on anything neutral like Bayern v Barca and not watch anything the other English clubs are in unless theyve lost.

So pretty much same as now.

 

[Lentwood]

Barely a two horse race? There's been 4 different champions in just 5 years.

Three out of the last four league titles have been won by March. Dull as dishwater.

I made this point in my very first post on this subject but I think the point that you are missing is that YOU and the rest of the old crowd (I include myself in that) watch football because we are emotionally invested. We went to games with our parents and friends. We grew up watching our clubs. We watch them week in, week out and follow our teams dogmatically and unquestionably, which is why football is often compared to a religion.

Perfect example. I sat and watched United play Granada last night. Awful game. Bored to tears. But could I turn it off? Course I couldn’t. But that’s because I’ve been invested for too long.

However, I really question whether football is an attractive proposition to kids now. Can they afford to go to games? Doubtful. Even if they could, would they be able to get tickets for the really big games? Doubtful. So what are they left with? Watching games on TV. That takes away all of the match day experience, so that’s gone.

Then of the football itself, at least half of the games are basically meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Who cares what the result is when Wolves play Southampton, apart from a small % of die-hard Southampton and Wolves fans? Who wants to watch that on TV with their mates on a Friday/Saturday evening? Not only that, because of the huge gap in resources, most bottom 12 teams playing top 5/6 sides couldn’t hope to compete so they resort to the “back 10 and nick one on a set-piece approach”, which is painful to watch.

The game has to evolve for me or it will die. I can’t see this new generation of fans coming into the game and getting excited about the sport in this format. It feels like we’re holding onto the past for nothing more than nostalgia.