X-File 01 - Stigmata/stigmatics, your take?

Nick 0208 Ldn

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I thought maybe we could do one of these each week, and we CEers would explore the various topics and what we believe about each.

It is possible that i am asking for trouble beginning with a subject however i am hoping that people can stay relatively within the realms of the discussion at hand.

So, what do you make of the phenomena that are the stigmata? w do you from a 2009 frame of reference or otherwise or otherwise explain it? Or do you perhaps believe all cases are fakes and fraudsters?
 

Eriku

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fakes, frauds, misunderstandings... if you ask a certain group of CE-ers who would call themselves skeptics, you would have to clarify the premises. For it to be a true case of stigmata, would it have to be supernaturally imposed? The answer then is obviously that it can't be believed... Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, so go fetch it. :P
 

MikeUpNorth

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My mate has severe eczema which has given him stigmata like marks on his hands and feet. We affectionately call him 'stig'.
 

Rood

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To be honest, I have never really seen much info about stigmatics - if anyone can provide links to famous cases I would be interested to have a read ...
 

Chris H

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I don't think I've even heard anything about stigmata since I was a kid. No opinion for me I'm afraid, beyond innate skepticism.
 

Mihajlovic

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Don't know much about stigmata but I know some people claim to have seen crying icons. Not sure what the point in that would be though.
 

Wibble

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Since it was an unknown phenomenon for 1300 years after JC AND since what was originally an almost exclusively male "affliction" but is now experienced by religious nuts of both sexes almost equally I think we can rule out a supernatural explanation right there.

Fakes and religious hysteria/wish fulfilment would be the majority of cases I suspect.
 

Rood

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Ok so I dont think anyone on here thinks that stigmatics are anything apart from fakes - lets have X File #2 please ...
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

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To be honest, I have never really seen much info about stigmatics - if anyone can provide links to famous cases I would be interested to have a read ...
Courtesy of About.com

One of the most rare and disturbing religious paranormal phenomena is the stigmata, or the manifestation of the wounds of the passion of Christ on the body. These wounds can range from a seemingly psychosomatic feeling of the wounds and the associated pain, but with no corresponding visible damage to the skin, to full blown unexplainable wounds that bleed and cause great discomfort to the stigmatic. The 20th century saw one of the most famous stigmatics, Padre Pio of Italy, who bore the bleeding wounds for decades and has since been declared a saint by the Roman Catholic Church.

Saint Pio had been surrounded by paranormal phenomena since childhood. As a youngster, he was believed to be able to see apparitions of Jesus and Mary, and even went so far as to assume that every person could see them. These continued into adulthood, until eventually Pio became a capuchin friar. During his time as a novice waiting to become a capuchin, the paranormal phenomena seem to have become more dark and increasingly powerful. In once incidence, the devil appeared to him in his room in the form of a large black dog with glowing red eyes. As early as 1911, he first manifested the stigmata, which he described in a letter as red marks on his hands and feet that caused severe pain. The wounds eventually became visible, sometimes bleeding profusely and would continue the rest of his life.

He often prayed for the wounds to dissappear, but not the pain, as he found the marks to be an embarrassment. They would never completely dissappear, so he was known to hide them. The visions of the devil continued as well, appearing to Pio as everything from a dancing naked girl, Pope Pius X, St. Francis and most disturbingly, the virgin Mary. One wonders how difficult of a time he had in distinguishing between visions from heaven, and apparitions from hell. Pio died in 1968, still afflicted with the stigmata.

About 300 or so stigmatics have been reported over the last two millenium. The first was St. Paul, who claimed to have them in a letter to the Galatians. St. Francis of Assisi also exhibited them in the 13th century, and cases continue to this day. A number of explainations have been given for the stigmata, ranging from fraud to the wounds somehow being created by the sufferer's own mind. The phenomena is usually restricted to catholics, however, in the case of the hindu holy man Chaitanya Mahaprabu (1486-1534) he was said to spontaneously bleed from multiple areas of his body.

Often, stigmatics also exhibit a seperate phenomena called inedia, which is the act of going without food or water, other than the daily eucharist host, for extended and impossible periods of time. This was seen with Padre Pio, who abstained from eating or drinking for long periods, and even stopped sleeping for a time. The phenomena was most pronounced with the sigmatic Therese Neumann, who is said to have eaten nothing but a single communion host each day from 1922 until she died in 1962.

Its also said that she did not drink water during this period either, and suffered no ill health affects. Oddly, the stigmata is known to vary significantly in the location of the wounds. Sometimes they appear at the wrists, or directly in the hands, and the damage from the lance varies between stigmatics on which side of the body it appears.

The bizarre phenomena of the stigmata is something that one might expect from a medieval text, but not in modern times. Yet it almost seems that it is increasing. Never the less, it is likely to remain unexplainable any time soon, as those who suffer from it are still few and far between.

The stigmata remains one of the strangest and most frightening phenomena noted in the annals of the paranormal.
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

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Ok so I dont think anyone on here thinks that stigmatics are anything apart from fakes - lets have X File #2 please ...
For argument's sake assume that that is so, how exactly? How do these people bleed copiously but not suffer anemia? If the wounds are constant then why do they not become infected?

Even science today accepts that they are not all fakes, there is speculation of some deep psychological catalyst but it remains onlya theory so i gather.

As for X-File 02, i have yet to decide and we'll keep it at one a week i think, people can feel free to PM me with suggestions of course...
 

Eriku

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For argument's sake assume that that is so, how exactly? How do these people bleed copiously but not suffer anemia? If the wounds are constant then why do they not become infected?

Even science today accepts that they are not all fakes, there is speculation of some deep psychological catalyst but it remains onlya theory so i gather.

As for X-File 02, i have yet to decide and we'll keep it at one a week i think, people can feel free to PM me with suggestions of course...
link for the part in bold, plz
 

Wibble

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Even science today accepts that they are not all fakes, there is speculation of some deep psychological catalyst but it remains onlya theory so i gather.
I'm sure at least some instances aren't physically faked but are the physical expressions of mentally unwell religious ecstatic's subconscious wish fulfilment.
 

Rood

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I'm sure at least some instances aren't physically faked but are the physical expressions of mentally unwell religious ecstatic's subconscious wish fulfilment.
Not sure what exactly you are saying here?
Do you mean that they are making themselves bleed with the power of their mind?
 

Wibble

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Not conciously but yes.

Otherwise why have priests only started to experience the phenomonon in the last 100 years? Not to mention the marks appearing where modern religion represents to be rather than where thet would actually be. For example if nails were used (and they often weren't) they would have been put through the ankles and wrists most likely to avoid tearing. In other words stigmata mirror the post 1300s representation of Jesus on the cross.
 

Johnno

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Not conciously but yes.

Otherwise why have priests only started to experience the phenomonon in the last 100 years? Not to mention the marks appearing where modern religion represents to be rather than where thet would actually be. For example if nails were used (and they often weren't) they would have been put through the ankles and wrists most likely to avoid tearing. In other words stigmata mirror the post 1300s representation of Jesus on the cross.
My guess would be far more scepticism surrounding God and Jesus' divinity. As for the nails through the palms of the hands, that is true and more likely to be nailed through the wrists for greater support however I watched one of them docos on History (or Nat Geo, one of them) which showed evidence some crucified victims had their hands and insteps nailed through which is then supported by loops of rope tied tightly round the wrists as was the general practise.
 

Nick 0208 Ldn

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link for the part in bold, plz
Perhaps that came out all wrong, sort of proclaiming all science. However on a documentary i saw on the stigmata, a scientist who was seemingly playing the objective critical viewpoint, had that or words to that effect as oen of this closing remarks.

He compared it to a far more intense, advanced if you will, form of the process whereby we blush.

Also there have been cases in recent decades, modern science has had the opportunity to observe and investigate those people with the wounds of Christ and no medical reason can be found to explain what is occurring.
 

Rood

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are there any known stigmatics in the world at the moment? I note the people mentioned in the posted article are dead now

I have never seen any documentary on this subject - to be honest the only time I have ever really come across Stigmata was in the movie of the same name.

The power of the mind is an interesting theory - I will go with that in the absence of any better explanation.