9/10, if you want to go full Brexiteer you should've somehow included WW2 in there to get a perfect result
Xabi Alonso: Bayer Leverkusen manager - Bundesliga Dinner Plate Winner
- Thread starter horsechoker
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9/10, if you want to go full Brexiteer you should've somehow included WW2 in there to get a perfect result
Yeah, he should have added about a half sentence about how our supposed inferiority complex is caused by us losing WW2 or something like that for perfection.
Meanwhile I'm trying hard to think of a single German football fan I know who actually even cared about the WC final. The WC was a nightmare in a lot of ways, but that point he mentioned did really not occur to me before.
Really? Just open up the SPOX article covering the world cup final and go through the comments.
I think the comment section on SPOX is generally not a good reflection of the public sentiments in Germany. Your comment about the WC final is almost bizarre. I don't know a single person who felt about the WC final that way. Most people I know either enjoyed a great game or boycotted it because of Qatar/FIFA.
Spox still exists? It's probably a decade since I read something there for the last time
I wanted Messi to win!
Do Germans have feud with Messi?
I don't think so, I think most Germans remember fondly how he could only look at but not touch the World Cup trophy 2014.
You could also check out the posts on Transfermarkt before the final.Spox still exists? It's probably a decade since I read something there for the last time
Another example is to just look at the end of every season, when teams like e.g. Freiburg still have chances to qualify for the Champions League. Lots of German fans than start hoping that they'll be taken over by other teams as they fear they would 'embarass' them in Europe... They'd rather have their archenemy qualify.
At the same time many German fans are now hoping that Italian teams won't be competitive anymore in the near future because the tax advantages for foreign players will be discontinued.
It's just a constant topic for German football fans and if you need proof just visit the Bayern Munich Transfermarkt forum and check out the lengthy discussions about the Italian League in the 'Internationale Konkurrenz' thread the past weeks.
I'll leave it at this as it's getting slightly off topic here...
I think that has entirely different reasons. Pretty sure that stems from times when the uefa country coefficients mattered in terms of how many teams could enter the Champions League. I think the Bundesliga overtook Seria A in 2011, giving them 3 direct CL entries + 1 qualifier as opposed to the previous 2 + 1. Then around 2017 they changed it to all top four leagues gaining four direct entries, making it a bit more irrelevant.
Anyway, my point is you see this in some other leagues too where the rankings matter(ed), and to some extent now again where this season's ranking matters for that 5th CL spot next season. The media makes a huge deal out of that race to get more spots in European competitions. That doesn't usually happen in England because ranking in the the top 2 leagues has practically never been in danger. My theory is Germany's long fight for that extra CL spot, especially in the 2000s, and the corresponding media coverage is what led to many fans supporting other clubs too in European competitions. And that sentiment just kind of stuck. That may not explain all of it, but at least it played a big part in my opinion.
As alien as that concept might be in England, I don't think I've ever seen so much coverage and talk about country coefficients in English media as I'm seeing now that there is an extra CL spot up for grabs.
I think there's also the dimension that most fans long for a team that makes the title race exciting again. Dortmund from 2010-2012 was just something fresh and I rooted for them because they made Bayern eat some humble pie. Lots of "neutrals" also root for Bayern in international competitions, though, so there your theory might apply. Anyway, I think the "underdogs" get much more sympathy. Even Dortmund these days receives lots of illwill, similarly to Bayern.
If a team like Brighton or Leicester has a deep tournament run, I imagine many "rival fans" will root for them as well. The illwill is primarily directed towards the other top 6 teams. But in Germany we only have one or maybe two of these.
I don't think these forums are representative of the public sentiment either. Trust me, the average German fan definitely prefers Freiburg in the UCL over Leipzig or to a lesser extent Leverkusen unless the latter are really playing some outrageous football. I'd even say that most match going fans don't give two fecks about the competitiveness of the league, they just support their local teams and are against commercialization in any capacity. They're there for the spectacle and have no problems with the league being clearly inferior to England and Spain and just support other German teams because of their underdog role. Bayern and Dortmund for instance get much more illwill and their defeats are being laughed at.
That aside, don't you think it is only logical that Bayern fans think this way? They have no rivals anyway and can afford to indulge some success to others. It is actually even in their self-interest as they are suffering from the bad reputation of the league in regards to international competitiveness as well. Plus they are bored just like the rest of us by the past 11 years. They were much saltier when Dortmund won the league twice there as well.
To make an even broader point out of that: There are few "archenemies" in German football and even some of those really deep rivalries have mostly become irrelevant during the last years by one part of that dropping down a league and simply not playing against each other anymore (Schalke/Dortmund, Bayern/1860 München, Hamburg/Bremen etc).
So a lot of European matches (especially against English/Spanish/Italian teams) become "a team representing German football culture" vs "some corrupt a**** who sold their soul". Which does indeed create the feeling that Germans all support each others teams. In a way we do quite often, and I don't think it hurts to acknowledge. Lots of us just care more about German football culture thriving than about seeing our enemy teams thrown into dust.
I for example want Braunschweig to be so successful that they always stay in the same league as Hannover. But barely, and to beat them twice a season. But I don't want to see them relegated further down than us. And I think a lot of us feel similarly (I believe @do.ob mentioned something similar regarding Schalke some time ago).
Yep, it's a bit of a Captain Ahab situation. I don't want Cologne to be relegated either. Really enjoyed Hamburg and Schalke going down but as of now I think it's time they play some first league football again.
About to sign for Bayern? Absolutely mental that they'd do this in the middle of a title race.
They did announce the Götze signing on Dortmund just before the Champions League final against them.
fecking hell German football is depressing.
Where've you seen this?
Ahh buggah. A friend sent a screen shot from "Slow Sports News". As you were Bundesliga.
Agree that the situation is depressing. But we didn’t announce Götze before the Champions league final. At least not because we wanted to. If I recall correctly, the deal got leaked shortly before Dortmund played Real in the semis.
Weird country for football. it seems whenever there is a contender to Bayern, they just instantly sweep up all the assets and that's that.
Klopp's the only one who didn't just take the easy route
Klopp's the only one who didn't just take the easy route
Just learned Fosu-Mensah plays for Leverkusen.
Then learned he's not kicked a ball this season.
Then learned he's not kicked a ball this season.
He has been constantly injured since coming here unfortunately.
Anyone think Alonso might be best for himself staying with leverkusen for another season or two?
it’s his first full season he is still learning, the Bayern Munich job is available every other season. We see a lot of young managers do well jump to a bigger job maybe too soon and it knocks them back again. I think he should continue what he has at with leverkusen see if he can make a mark on the champs league and continue to grow his profile
it’s his first full season he is still learning, the Bayern Munich job is available every other season. We see a lot of young managers do well jump to a bigger job maybe too soon and it knocks them back again. I think he should continue what he has at with leverkusen see if he can make a mark on the champs league and continue to grow his profile
I am 100% with you on this. The big clubs Madrid Bayern Barcelona chew up managers and spit them out brutally. One poor season and his reputation has gone to shit
Look at Xavi, He won the La Liga last season, this season he looks miserable and depressed. If not for the home grown tax, he would have been fired
For Alonso, Liverpool might be more understanding and patient with him, but best case scenario he stays with Leverkusen for 1 more season defend his league title(if he wins) then see them far in the CL
No guarantees in football. Say he decides to stay at Leverkusen and has a calamitous season - he could very well derail his rapid ascent to something he struggles to recover from.
Sexy AND smart.
I think he'll stay on with Bayer for one more campaign. I get the impression he's quite loyal and would like to see what they, and he , can achieve in the CL.
Its arguable the options he has now will be greater in another year anyway.
Its arguable the options he has now will be greater in another year anyway.
Ive not watched Leverkusen this season.
Is their position in the league down to xabi or is it due to Bayern shitting the bin?
Is their position in the league down to xabi or is it due to Bayern shitting the bin?
Leverkusen are the only unbeaten team in Europe’s top 5 leagues. They’re having a time great season regardless of the state of Bayern.
It's both. We already played them twice and only got one point out of it. Up until last week our results were good points-wise, but performances and state of play have convinced very rarely since Tuchel took over.
Leverkusen is performing close to the all time points record of Heynckes' triple winning Bayern 2013 and on par with Guardiola's best seasons. Bayern actually (in regard to points) have their second best season after Guardiola (only Flick's sextuple winners got more points). So it's absolutely the case that everything clicked for Leverkusen this season.
The win today means that Leverkusen haven't lost for 33 competitive matches (which is their whole season). Which is a new record for a German club (previously held by Flick's Bayern (December 2019 until September 2020 - which included them winning Bundesliga, German Cup, Champions League and German and UEFA Supercup).
Its insane, credits to them.
I hope for a Leverkusen - Liverpool final in the El, that could be epic.
Credit to them. But wow. The Mainz keeper was so so bad for both goals.
Yeah. The second goal was some Karius level crap.
He will take scouse job unfortunately for us
Surely not a single person in the planet had nightmares about that other than Ronaldo fanboys and Real Madrid fans? And the latter aren't even a separate bunch of people.
Why would Germans give two shits about it?
so what??
As he was for his last few seasons here. A young Fosu-Mensah was one of the best pure athletes I've ever seen on a football pitch, with a fantastic combination of speed, power and agility. It's a shame that his body doesn't seem to have been able to handle it.