Yellow cards for simulation - Where is the consistency?

RedRoach

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After watching the game yesterday one thing that struck me about the VAR decision not to give Brighton a penalty is why if it is not a penalty was the player not booked for diving? For me he made a complete meal of it and was looking to fool the ref into giving a penalty, yes in the end no yellow card was given for the dive, however the end result of this is once again Connolly tried to dive to win another penalty which the ref waved play on for. If the original offense had resulted in a booking he wouldn't have attempted this second dive IMO.

Why are not yellow cards given for simulation more often and why do refs not give them following VAR decisions?
 
RedRoach said:
After watching the game yesterday one thing that struck me about the VAR decision not to give Brighton a penalty is why if it is not a penalty was the player not booked for diving? For me he made a complete meal of it and was looking to fool the ref into giving a penalty, yes in the end no yellow card was given for the dive, however the end result of this is once again Connolly tried to dive to win another penalty which the ref waved play on for. If the original offense had resulted in a booking he wouldn't have attempted this second dive IMO.

Why are not yellow cards given for simulation more often and why do refs not give them following VAR decisions?
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It's not black or white. There was contact but in refs interpretation it wasn't enough to give penalty, doesn't mean it was a dive and yellow.
 
It's not an obvious dive, neither of the situations were. But he was trying to provoke a penalty.

It can both be not a penalty and not a dive at the same time. Physical contest for the ball. Shoulder against shoulder and so on.
 
I don't think there ever should be a yellow card for diving if there is contact. Connolly definitely initiated it but so did Lamptey for the first penalty. They were really similar incidents. It's far too grey an area to book players for diving.

The easiest way to prevent Connolly looking for a penalty the second time would have been Maguire defending it better.
 
POF said:
I don't think there ever should be a yellow card for diving if there is contact. Connolly definitely initiated it but so did Lamptey for the first penalty. They were really similar incidents. It's far too grey an area to book players for diving.

The easiest way to prevent Connolly looking for a penalty the second time would have been Maguire defending it better.
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Most people believe that the rule applies purely to penalty/ non penalty decisions but it’s far wider than that.

Heres what FIFA says is the how simulation rule should be applied

“Attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)", must be sanctioned as unsporting behaviour which is misconduct punishable by a yellow card

So back to your point about contact.

Time after time we see defenders when they’d really trying to usher the ball out or like David Luiz stop dead, stick his backside out and when feeling even the slightest of contact contact go over.
 
RedRoach said:
After watching the game yesterday one thing that struck me about the VAR decision not to give Brighton a penalty is why if it is not a penalty was the player not booked for diving? For me he made a complete meal of it and was looking to fool the ref into giving a penalty, yes in the end no yellow card was given for the dive, however the end result of this is once again Connolly tried to dive to win another penalty which the ref waved play on for. If the original offense had resulted in a booking he wouldn't have attempted this second dive IMO.

Why are not yellow cards given for simulation more often and why do refs not give them following VAR decisions?
Click to expand...

Truth is, there is no consistency. Not that i think those particular situations warranted a booking, but ironically VAR has just made inconsistency in refereeing much more noticeable as even though we have slow mo video and different angles, its still up the ref to make the final call.

What brings my piss to a boil though are the ridiculous offside calls where the attacking player has half a toe offside and the goal gets overturned. Additionally, nasty/dangerous challenges seems to have no consistency what so ever. I remember last season when we played Soton(i think) after the lockdown and some cnut made a really ugly challenge on Greenwood. Straight leg, studs up, above ankle height and way, way late. It was a stonewall red and it didnt even get a FK even though it was obvious Greenwood went down in pain
 
terraloo said:
Most people believe that the rule applies purely to penalty/ non penalty decisions but it’s far wider than that.

Heres what FIFA says is the how simulation rule should be applied

“Attempts to deceive the referee by feigning injury or pretending to have been fouled (simulation)", must be sanctioned as unsporting behaviour which is misconduct punishable by a yellow card

So back to your point about contact.

Time after time we see defenders when they’d really trying to usher the ball out or like David Luiz stop dead, stick his backside out and when feeling even the slightest of contact contact go over.
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i don't think he pretended he was injured and there was contact which is legitimate means for going down, even if you can catch yourself and keep going .
I hate that players do it, but it's part of the game.

It's when there is no contact that players pretend they are fouled and deservingly carded
 
RedRoach said:
After watching the game yesterday one thing that struck me about the VAR decision not to give Brighton a penalty is why if it is not a penalty was the player not booked for diving? For me he made a complete meal of it and was looking to fool the ref into giving a penalty, yes in the end no yellow card was given for the dive, however the end result of this is once again Connolly tried to dive to win another penalty which the ref waved play on for. If the original offense had resulted in a booking he wouldn't have attempted this second dive IMO.

Why are not yellow cards given for simulation more often and why do refs not give them following VAR decisions?
Click to expand...
Yeah it was strange considering he’d already booked him for his dive against Pogba where the penalty got overturned. His second one with Maguire looked more of a dive which deserved a second yellow and red card. That’s why the ref probably bottled it.
 
I like diving, it’s always been part of football.

Is it any worse than claiming a corner when you know you touched it last? Or screaming for a handball when you know it wasn’t?
 
POF said:
I don't think there ever should be a yellow card for diving if there is contact. Connolly definitely initiated it but so did Lamptey for the first penalty. They were really similar incidents. It's far too grey an area to book players for diving.

The easiest way to prevent Connolly looking for a penalty the second time would have been Maguire defending it better.
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Weird take. He dived because he'd lost control of the chance. The second one was a pretty pathetic and an obvious dive, he should have been booked.
 
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Eli Zee said:
i don't think he pretended he was injured and there was contact which is legitimate means for going down, even if you can catch yourself and keep going .
I hate that players do it, but it's part of the game.

It's when there is no contact that players pretend they are fouled and deservingly carded
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But as with many things that’s not what the laws say.

Where does it say about contact being a legitimate means to go down ?
 
No idea what happens with them. In the City game yesterday, it was a definite dive for the last penalty and could have been a yellow IMO. Instead, it ends up being a third penalty to Leicester.

VAR could be used to sort it out but it seems there's this implicit demand for more action.
 
terraloo said:
But as with many things that’s not what the laws say.

Where does it say about contact being a legitimate means to go down ?
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As opposed to no contact, having contact is the only legitimate reason for falling besides being off balance...
 
I think giving yellows when there is contact is a slippery slope to players getting yellows when they haven't dived at all.
 
The problem is that it's too subjective.

You can have fouls where there is contact, you can have fouls where the player clearly played for contact, you can have fouls where there was no contact at all. Similarly, you can have players diving (i.e. deliberately throwing themselves to the ground) when there has been no contact, where there has been slight contact or where there has been clear contact.

Picking and choosing when to give either penalties or cards in that scenario is very difficult. Not sure how you would ever have consistency.
 
I don't like this trend of attacking players running in front of a defender and slamming the brakes on, of course there's going to be some sort of contact in that scenario. That's what pissed me off most about Brighton's first penalty appeal, you could tell that he was more focused on obstructing Pogba than he was about actually doing anything with the ball. Pogba did everything he could to minimise the contact and it was rightly overturned.

The worst thing is the typical mugs like Shearer et al come out and make it out like it's a shocking error on VAR part when in fact it's probably one of the best uses I've seen of it so far this season. fecking cretins.
 
Looking for contact is fine, it’s gamesmanship. The same as trying to kick the ball at people’s hands, which is the current Europe-wide trend.
 
Problem-free Philosophy said:
I don't like this trend of attacking players running in front of a defender and slamming the brakes on, of course there's going to be some sort of contact in that scenario. That's what pissed me off most about Brighton's first penalty appeal, you could tell that he was more focused on obstructing Pogba than he was about actually doing anything with the ball. Pogba did everything he could to minimise the contact and it was rightly overturned.
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This is where i am with it too. If a player goes down whilst trying to get to the ball, its a penalty. If they stop moving towards the ball and fall like a limp fish, it's simulation. We should not be in a situation where players are stopping trying to play the ball and instead trying to find a reason to fall over.
 
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