Young back-up goalkeepers…

[Pogue Mahone]

Watching Kepa for Chelsea tonight, it feels like he’s wasting his career. Same thing with Kelleher at Liverpool and Henderson at United. Gavin Bazunu’s having a great career out on loan but I worry what it will mean for his development if he becomes a member of City’s first team squad.

Goalkeeper’s an unusual position. Injuries are much rarer than in outfield positions, there’s no need to rotate to rest the number 1 and it’s very unusual for an up and coming keeper to dislodge the present incumbent (can’t actually think of a single example of this happening?) who will also tend to age better than outfield players.

The youngsters are basically resigning themselves to a few cup games every season in the hope they might impress enough in those few games to get a move to another club. Assuming the big/wealthy club will allow them leave (by no means guaranteed) If they get knocked out of the cup early, tough shit. Just seems an odd role for any ambitious young keeper to accept.

Maybe I’m misremembering but didn’t Number 2’s at big clubs always used to be seasoned pros who would never have been good enough to start at that level but were decent cover in an emergency?

Is this phenomenon of having quality youngsters as back up ‘keepers a new phenomenon? Is it a bad career choice?

 

[TwoSheds]

Maybe there are just more good keepers around?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Maybe there are just more good keepers around?

That makes no sense. Quality of keepers will be a bell shaped curve, as it always has been.

 

[Bubz27]

Bring back Van Der Gouw and Ed de Goey.

Did Cudicini being Cech's #2 for a season or two change the trend?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Bring back Van Der Gouw and Ed de Goey.

Did Cudicini being Cech's #2 for a season or two change the trend?

Maybe. That felt like a turning point. He really stood out as being far too good to be a back-up. And felt like a career wasted as a result.

 

[hellhunter]

I remember upcoming Sven Ulreich, who was quite good for Stuttgart, moving to Bayern to warm the bench since no one displaces Neuer. No idea why you would consider such a move as a young keeper.

 

[Gandalf]

Sell Henderson, sign Beasant!

 

[Based Adnan]

Kelleher is such a weird one. 23 years of age with 14 senior appearances to his name. Never been out on loan.

Hendo and Kepa at least have 180 and 300 senior apps respectively.

 

[TheMagicFoolBus]

I remember upcoming Sven Ulreich, who was quite good for Stuttgart, moving to Bayern to warm the bench since no one displaces Neuer. No idea why you would consider such a move as a young keeper.

Same with Alexander Nubel - very odd move that, especially as it ruined his reputation with Schalke

 

[sullydnl]

Assumed Kepa was 22 or so. He's 27! At that age he should definitely be playing elsewhere, though I'm sure he's paid well to be where he is.

 

[Bubz27]

Maybe. That felt like a turning point. He really stood out as being far too good to be a back-up. And felt like a career wasted as a result.

And even worse, he ended up at Spurs.

 

[Patchbeard]

Well Kepa was signed for a ridiculous sum of money to replace Courtouis, on a stupidly long contract, but then turned out to be a bit shit. So the fee Chelsea would want to recoup would be too high, as would his wages, for a team of his level to sign him.

 

[Gio]

Is it more of a Premier League thing where the wages, even for being no2, are so high relative to first choice in another league that financially it’s worth sacrificing some of your career? Is the trend as pronounced in other leagues?

 

[diarm]

The thing is as well, keepers are never going to prove their worth getting the odd cup game here and there. They need a run of games to get bedded in so the idea of being the up and comer, snapping at the heels of the incumbent rarely pays off.

 

[Lay]

Bring back Peggy Arphexhad

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Kepa isn't the best example. He was signed to be Chelsea's starter and turned out to be shit.

I remember upcoming Sven Ulreich, who was quite good for Stuttgart, moving to Bayern to warm the bench since no one displaces Neuer. No idea why you would consider such a move as a young keeper.

I remember him being absolutely diabolical in one of Bayern's CL knockout matches.

 

[Trequarista10]

Kepas a bit different as he was bought for big money as first choice. I assume Chelsea would happily off load him, but probably difficult to shift him?

It's probably quite good for a young keeper to have a mix of first team experience at lower levels and time as backup to an elite keeper. I'm sure the likes of Foster, Howard and Kuszczak benefited from training with VDS foe years. Neither were ultimately good enough to become number 1 at United, but it probably helped their career post United. Plus the money, lifestyle and experience of playing in the Champions League or Cup finals, opposed to slogging it out in the Championship..

For clubs it's just a balance of how long you can or want to hold onto a young keeper who either isn't happy as a number 2, or isn't good enough to be number 1. The second choice has to earn that position - Joe Hart was second choice at City but ousted Shay Given, Ramsdale recently started as 2nd choice at Arsenal but soon won the starting role, there are many more examples.

 

[Red the Bear]

Watching Kepa for Chelsea tonight, it feels like he’s wasting his career. Same thing with Kelleher at Liverpool and Henderson at United. Gavin Bazunu’s having a great career out on loan but I worry what it will mean for his development if he becomes a member of City’s first team squad.

Goalkeeper’s an unusual position. Injuries are much rarer than in outfield positions, there’s no need to rotate to rest the number 1 and it’s very unusual for an up and coming keeper to dislodge the present incumbent (can’t actually think of a single example of this happening?) who will also tend to age better than outfield players.

The youngsters are basically resigning themselves to a few cup games every season in the hope they might impress enough in those few games to get a move to another club. Assuming the big/wealthy club will allow them leave (by no means guaranteed) If they get knocked out of the cup early, tough shit. Just seems an odd role for any ambitious young keeper to accept.

Maybe I’m misremembering but didn’t Number 2’s at big clubs always used to be seasoned pros who would never have been good enough to start at that level but were decent cover in an emergency?

Is this phenomenon of having quality youngsters as back up ‘keepers a new phenomenon? Is it a bad career choice?

I don't get your examples

Kepa and chelsea were tied down by that stupid contract, so no one simply wants him now

Henderson thought he could replace David when it became obvious that it wasn't happening he wants out.

Khler isn't good enough and he still probably moves somewhere else.

Anyway yeah it's foolish to be a young back up keeper and it's not a trend that i expect to see much.

 

[Chipper]

Yes, goalkeeper can be a funny/cruel position in that sense.

I once thought about it from a youth perspective. Let's say you're a highly regarded young goalie and one of the big teams wants to sign you. Great, but then they sign up another who they marginally prefer. Your career could be over in terms of fulfilling potential there and then as you sit on the bench for the youth team for a couple of year, stifling your progress. You don't get noticed by other clubs either as there isn't much to scout you on. Must be some would-be very good 'keepers lost like that.

 

[Kag]

In fairness, Henderson is clearly chomping at the bit for a regular go in the first team and is seemingly looking to leave in order to get football elsewhere if he has to. He was probably a Covid case away from starting the season as our #1, too.

Kepa will be on huge wages and other clubs will struggle to cover even half of them on loan.

 

[TwoSheds]

That makes no sense. Quality of keepers will be a bell shaped curve, as it always has been.

I should think it's always been a curve that's highly skewed towards shit keepers actually but I suppose it depends what dataset you take. Either way, perhaps it's more/less skewed now.

 

[B20]

Kelleher grapped his chance when Adrian lost his shit. He's calm and good on the ball which is a great quality for a backup keeper for us. But before that no one was talking about him.

Don't think he'd be anything special if he left. He's a decent keeper, nothing more.

 

[CallyRed]

Remember sharting myself (more than usual) as a child seeing Kevin Pilkington in goal when Big Pete was out.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Kelleher grapped his chance when Adrian lost his shit. He's calm and good on the ball which is a great quality for a backup keeper for us. But before that no one was talking about him.

Don't think he'd be anything special if he left. He's a decent keeper, nothing more.

He’s been talked about as a very special talent in Ireland for years. He’s too good to be a number two. I hope he sees sense and moves on soon.

Ironically, he’s going to end up a permanent number two for his country. As Bazunu is more talented. All the more reason to try and nail down a number one slot for a club.

 

[Oranges038]

Alex Manninger spent a 20 odd year career as a number 2 at a load of clubs.

Ideally you need a nailed on No.1. A seasoned pro as and a young guy as backup.

 

[Carlsen19]

Bring back Peggy Arphexhad

First name that sprung to my mind

Just checked his wiki - 39 senior appearances in his entire career! Even worse than I thought.

 

[Dancfc]

I remember Steve Harper spent over a decade being back up to Shay Given despite being quite good himself.

 

[Revaulx]

I know Sunderland’s a dump, but it seemed weird at the time that their first choice keeper Chris Turner left to join United as Gary Bailey’s backup in 1985. For quite a hefty fee, I think.

Weird, but fortunate. Bailey was badly injured in training while on England duty for the 1986 World Cup, and Turner effortlessly took his place and retained it for two seasons. He was a decent keeper, though not a very tall one. He moved to Sheffield Wednesday on losing his place to Jim Leighton, who arguably was not an improvement.

 

[meamth]

Kepa's case I think is a coincidence.

Signed as a first choice goalkeeper, with a huge transfer fee and salary, it's difficult to sell him now. Also having the worst stats and xG for the past few years doesn't help. Nobody would ever buy him at this point.

It's quite clear now Kepa has to relaunch his career elsewhere, not at the top level leagues, and that's very unfortunate for him, but it is what it is, he had his chance.

Henderson's case is also an anomaly because De Gea's ability seems to be on the way down a couple of years ago, it made sense to put the project on Henderson.

But De Gea turned the whole project around by proving that he is still one of the best GK in the league this year. Really bizarre situation we're having and I think should be sorted out soon, as De Gea is still "young" for a goalkeeper and Henderson needs game time.

 

[Hastar]

With GKs age is not an issue.

Someone like Kelleher can be Becker's understudy, and learn a lot until he reaches the age of 25, and then seek a move elsewhere.
He gets regular cup action and is learning from the likes of Taffarel.

 

[NoPace]

I agree. More Romero's backing up teams and let the young keepers play full-time at worse clubs.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Bring back Van Der Gouw and Ed de Goey.

Did Cudicini being Cech's #2 for a season or two change the trend?

Loved him.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

I remember Steve Harper spent over a decade being back up to Shay Given despite being quite good himself.

same with us, Kevin Hitchcock. 13 yrs at the club only played about 100 games. Always a backup more often than not.

 

[ZolaWasMagic]

Bring back Peggy Arphexhad

you know something, i remember we beat Leicester at home 1-0 and Lebeouf scored a screamer from about 30 yards last few mins, but up until then that bastard Arphexad saved everything, and looked a top drawer 'keeper.

 

[Massive Spanner]

Bazunu is a star in the making and City have arguably the best academy in the country now so I'm not worried about him yet. Ederson is only 28 though and Pep loves him so they only way he replaces him in the next five or six years is if Pep goes. Hopefully by then he'll either be first choice or have moved on.

 

[phelans shorts]

Watching Kepa for Chelsea tonight, it feels like he’s wasting his career. Same thing with Kelleher at Liverpool and Henderson at United. Gavin Bazunu’s having a great career out on loan but I worry what it will mean for his development if he becomes a member of City’s first team squad.

Goalkeeper’s an unusual position. Injuries are much rarer than in outfield positions, there’s no need to rotate to rest the number 1 and it’s very unusual for an up and coming keeper to dislodge the present incumbent (can’t actually think of a single example of this happening?) who will also tend to age better than outfield players.

The youngsters are basically resigning themselves to a few cup games every season in the hope they might impress enough in those few games to get a move to another club. Assuming the big/wealthy club will allow them leave (by no means guaranteed) If they get knocked out of the cup early, tough shit. Just seems an odd role for any ambitious young keeper to accept.

Maybe I’m misremembering but didn’t Number 2’s at big clubs always used to be seasoned pros who would never have been good enough to start at that level but were decent cover in an emergency?

Is this phenomenon of having quality youngsters as back up ‘keepers a new phenomenon? Is it a bad career choice?

As much as anything it’s probably more that there’s far more young keepers who play the way top clubs want (ie good on the ball to play it out) than older keepers, so clubs want those younger keepers to be the stand in so they don’t have to totally rip up how they want to play

 

[Lay]

you know something, i remember we beat Leicester at home 1-0 and Lebeouf scored a screamer from about 30 yards last few mins, but up until then that bastard Arphexad saved everything, and looked a top drawer 'keeper.

The rare times I saw him play, he actually looked decent.

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

I think of this starting with ter Stegen more so than in the PL really. There was a clear pathway there where he would be phased in as number 1 ahead of the older Bravo, and ter Stegen being the undisputed first choice for the Champions League was a sign of faith in him, rather than throwing him the odd start to keep him happy - it helped that they won the thing in his first year. It seemed to me that it became more of a trend after that, but not every club has that definite path to taking over as number 1 mapped out, certainly not at Liverpool, and at United they're undecided with Henderson, which is typical.

Kepa is more comparable to say, Bale, Isco, Coutinho - an unwanted asset too expensive to move on.

 

[Thunderhead]

Bazunu is a star in the making and City have arguably the best academy in the country now so I'm not worried about him yet. Ederson is only 28 though and Pep loves him so they only way he replaces him in the next five or six years is if Pep goes. Hopefully by then he'll either be first choice or have moved on.

I think Bazunu will be City's #1 in 3 years time, Ederson fit's Pep's style, he's not a great keeper in the traditional sense, does the basic's ok, ok shot stopper but is so good with his feet he's like an extra defender at times, once Pep goes the domination on the ball I think will lessen and we'll need a more traditional keeper which hopefully if he progresses like he is will be Bazunu

 

[Bubz27]

Loved him.

The stache