Young Lions 2019/20

Classical Mechanic

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Thread to keep an eye on the progress of the England youth sides and players this season.

A number of players are now playing abroad, a few to look out for

Yunus Musah - Valencia


Jon Panzo - Monaco (u17 World Cup winner) looks to have won a starting spot at Monaco this season


Xavier Amaechi - HSV made his senior debut in the German Cup last week

Hopefully Smith-Rowe will get a his move before the window shuts


Madueke - PSV not sure how close he is to the first team but hopefully will get some minutes this season


Domestically Jude Bellingham at Birmingham is one to look out for, just became Birmingham's youngest ever senior player at 16 beating Trevor Francis's record. He a physically large but a technical and skilful central midfielder.


Steve Sessegnon made his full league debut last night for Fulham and did well. Another right back for England to add to their vast collection!

There are many more. I'll update as they make the news etc..
 

In Rainbows

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These were the players highlighted by a German scout 2 years ago in this article https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/premier-league/bundesliga-jadon-sancho-callum-hudson-odoi-premier-league-transfer-news-epl-a8729736.html

20 years old – Reece Oxford (West Ham United)
18 – O’Riley (Fulham); Xavier Amaechi (Arsenal); Curtis Jones (Liverpool); Arvin Appiah (Nottingham Forest)
17 – Mason Greenwood (Manchester United); Tyreece John-Jules (Arsenal); Arthur Okonkwo (Arsenal); Luca Ashby-Hammond (Fulham)
16 – Troy Parrott (Tottenham Hotspur); Morgan Rodgers (West Brom)
15 – Louie Barry (West Brom); Harvey Elliott (Fulham); Leojo Davidson (Manchester City)

Looks like they were almost spot on, but I guess there are a couple of us that can tell you this when those players are at a similar stage in their development.

And since this is locked behind a paywall, here is the full article of the Times article (from 2 years ago) about German clubs going after English talents

They do a lot of number-crunching at Borussia Mönchengladbach. According to their sporting director Max Eberl, they use every available metric and statistic as they scout and scour Europe for the best young talent in Europe. “A lot of numbers,” he says in his office at Borussia-Park. “All the numbers that are possible today.”

Those numbers have led Eberl and his colleagues to conclusions that are backed up every time they watch the England youth teams or indeed the Premier League’s competitions at under-23 and under-18 level. “We follow every English national game — under-16, under-17 and so on — and we know every top player in England,” he says. “They develop great players. That age group [born in] 2000 in England, you could take every player. It’s unbelievable. They will perhaps win the Under-17 World Cup in India this month. That age group of 1999-2000-2001, there are a lot of top English players. For me, they’re the best in the world in that age group.”

When Jadon Sancho, one of the stars of that England Under-17 team, left Manchester City for Borussia Dortmund this summer, it was the most eyecatching in a series of moves that have taken English youngsters to Bundesliga clubs. It began with Danny Collinge, formerly of Milton Keynes Dons, joining Stuttgart in 2014 and continued with Mandela Egbo’s move from Crystal Palace to Mönchengladbach a year later. This summer two England Under-20 players, Kaylen Hinds, 19, and Ryan Kent, 20, left Arsenal for Wolfsburg (permanently) and Liverpool for Freiburg (on loan) and a third, Reece Oxford, 18, joined Mönchengladbach on loan from West Ham United; Sancho, 17, has since been joined at Dortmund by Denzeil Boadu, 20, who was also at City.

Some in positions of power at Premier League clubs may be inclined to call it a talent drain. If anything, it has been designed to end the drain that is already happening within English football, where the financial stakes are so high, the culture has become so risk-averse and there is so little patience to nurture young talent in the Premier League. Too many fine prospects have been lost in the system, their potential not just unfulfilled but forgotten entirely. In Germany, at least, there is a growing regard — and a growing appetite — for English talent. What is more, the attraction slowly appears to have become mutual.

“They are developing great young players in England,” Eberl says, “but normally the player has no chance to be in the first XI or even the first 18 of a Premier League team. English clubs, they will buy another player. They have a top player in their academy, but they will buy another who is two years older and has played two years in the first team in France or somewhere else. Sometimes it looks like the transfer market is a competition in itself. They don’t look to their own academy.

“For example, Chelsea have Andreas Christensen. They got him back this summer after a two-year development — the best possible development, Champions League development — with us. He played for us against [Pierre-Emerick] Aubameyang, [Robert] Lewandowski, [Sergio] Agüero, [Álvaro] Morata, [Gonzalo] Higuaín, [Leigh] Griffiths, the best strikers in the world, and did a great job. They got him back for nothing, but also they buy [Antonio] Rüdiger for nearly €40 million [about £34 million] from Roma. Rüdiger is an excellent player, as we know in Germany, but so is Christensen, their own player, who joined them at the age of 15. I am not criticising Chelsea — they do a great job — but this is just the way of it in England.

“So what is the next step for these young players? We want to be able to say, ‘We can be the next step for you.’ Reece and Jadon could be the example for the next guys. And I am starting to feel it a lot because a lot of English agents called us and said, ‘Hey, our player wants to come and play in the Bundesliga.’ I feel that they begin to open their eyes away from the Premier League, yes, but to Europe and especially in Germany. This is what I feel from the conversations I have had with agents. They are open to bringing players to Germany.”

One agent, involved in one of the above deals, describes it thus. “If you’re a first-year or second-year pro at a big Premier League club, are you even on the manager’s radar?” he says. “Depending on the club, they might have two or three senior internationals in your position in the first-team squad. They might have the same in the under-23s, the same in the under-18s, another two or three out on loan. When that manager needs a player for the first team, will he look to the under-23s or the under-18s or the guys who have been on loan? No. More often than not, he looks to the transfer market. In Germany the culture is different — there is a clear philosophy, a clear pathway, with every young player knowing he will get the best possible chance to develop. That’s why our young players are suddenly looking to Germany, whether it’s loans or permanent moves.”

The theory is beyond question – particularly at clubs such as RB Leipzig, Bayer Leverkusen, Freiburg, Wolfsburg, Mönchengladbach and Dortmund, where there is a strong emphasis on developing younger players.

So far, though, those English players have made just one Bundesliga start between them. That came when Hinds, who spent the second half of last season on loan to Stevenage, was unexpectedly selected for Wolfsburg’s opening league game against Dortmund in August. Collinge and Egbo are respectively in their fourth and third season in Germany and neither has appeared in the Bundesliga, though at 19 and 20 respectively they are young enough to feel they have time on their side. Theirs was more of a long-term mission, aimed at developing through Germany’s B-team structure. Both are regularly in the Regionalliga, Germany’s regionalised fourth tier. It sounds like a long way off the Bundesliga, though Eberl speaks positively of Egbo’s progression at Mönchengladbach, where he has recently started to train with the first team and impressed in a friendly match against Duisburg.

Encouragingly, Kent has made three Bundesliga appearances as a substitute for Freiburg, while Hinds was on the bench for Wolfsburg in their final match before the international break. So too was Sancho for Dortmund’s match away to Augsburg. He has since travelled to India for the Under-17 World Cup, where he has made a strong impression in England’s first two matches, and at 17 is regarded much as Christian Pulisic, the United States playmaker, was when he made his breakthrough at Dortmund two years ago. “Sancho is a huge talent,” Dortmund’s sporting director Michael Zorc said recently. “He’ll need time to settle in, but I’m convinced we’ll have a lot of fun with him in the next few years. We don’t only talk about developing talents. We give them playing time at a high level.”

That is what Oxford is expecting at Mönchengladbach too. He is yet to kick a ball in the Bundesliga and there have been reports that West Ham will activate a clause to recall him in December. Eberl does not deny that Oxford has been frustrated, but he believes the youngster and West Ham would be making a mistake if his German experience is cut short. “Reece wants to play,” Eberl says. “He doesn’t want to wait. I have spoken to him. I said, ‘Reece, it takes two or three months. You have to adapt to German culture, to the Bundesliga, a different style of football.’ Now he is adapting to our training, our approach. For me, he is making great development. We have been able to tell him, ‘You are one short step away from playing. You’re 18. Yes, you played in West Ham’s first team in the Premier League two years ago, but you had a big injury and in the last year you had only five games at Reading. You decided on the right step — here with us — and we will bring you to the level because you will play here.’

“To me, it would make no sense for Reece to go back in December. The example for him is Christensen — not an English player, but another top, talented defender from a Premier League club. Andreas played two years here at the top level, made a huge improvement and is now playing for Chelsea. Reece can do the same — or he could stay in Germany if he wanted to. Yes, there is a clause that they could take him back in December if he plays too few games, but we hope to be able to show Reece and West Ham very soon that he can have a perfect development here this season.”

For Egbo, as for Collinge at Stuttgart, it is a more gradual process, but the Mönchengladbach youngster has no regrets. “Absolutely not,” Egbo says. “I can say without any doubt at all it was the best move for me. It has been an experience I wouldn’t swap. It is taking a bit longer than I thought it would, I guess, but that’s not to say it’s not coming. The whole journey has been exactly that — a journey. It has been learning curve after learning curve after learning curve. It has been invaluable.”

Egbo talks positively about the B-team experience in Germany — playing competitive football while, unlike a loan, remaining under his club’s tutelage — but it is the broader aspects of his development that convince him he is in the right place. Collinge moved to Germany in part because it allowed him the opportunity to study for an international baccalaureate. Egbo, too, feels that the move has broadened his mind as well as helping his development as a footballer. “Living away from home, in another country, you have to be so much more mature,” he says. “It has been great for me.”

Where does he want to be in three years? Back in the Premier League? “My plan is to stay here for a long time and play as many Bundesliga games as possible,” Egbo says. “It has been two years and I know I haven’t got anything clear to show for it yet, but I’m more determined than ever. I came out here with a vision. I’ve started it and I’m determined to carry on with it.

“Reece has probably got the same vision for himself — the same with Jadon and the others. I hope it pays off for all of us — including, obviously, the players in the Prem. I would love to see a load of English youngsters get 150 games over the next three years. I’m not saying, ‘The Prem is rubbish. Move out here to get games.’ I want everybody to succeed wherever they are. What is clear is that it’s hard to do that wherever you are, in whichever league or country, but I believe Germany is the best place for me. It looks like others are starting to feel the same.”
 

In Rainbows

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Someone in another forum said that 2003 group of players listed was comparable to the 2000 generation of Sancho, Gomes, and Foden, but I find that hard to believe.

2000 - Sancho, Foden, Gomes, Hudson Odoi, Sessegnon, Gibbs White, Smith Rowe, McEachran, Brewster, Aarons, O'Riley, Skipp
2001 - Greenwood, Jones, Garner, Laird, Ameachi, Balogun?
2002 - Rodgers, Greenwood (Arsenal),
2003 - Bellingham, Elliott, Barry, Musiala, Dembele
2004 - Shoretire, Cannonier
2005 -
2006 -

I'm not trying to list every potential talent, but ones that stand out. I remember Nya Kirby being impressive as a 14 year old for Spurs, and then Oakley Booth as a 15-16 year old for Spurs. Oakley Booth seems to have fallen in stature, and Kirby went to Palace shortly after. Loader used to be there for the 2000 group, but Brewster overtook him as the striker.
 
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Classical Mechanic

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Someone in another forum said that 2003 group of players listed was comparable to the 2000 generation of Sancho, Gomes, and Foden, but I find that hard to believe.

2000 - Sancho, Foden, Gomes, Hudson Odoi, Sessegnon, Gibbs White, Smith Rowe, McEachran, Brewster, Aarons, O'Riley, Skipp
2001 - Greenwood, Jones, Garner, Laird, Ameachi, Balogun?
2002 - Rodgers, Greenwood (Arsenal),
2003 - Bellingham, Elliott, Barry, Musiala, Dembele
2004 - Shoretire, Cannonier
2005 -
2006 -

I'm not trying to list every potential talent, but ones that stand out. I remember Nya Kirby being impressive as a 14 year old for Spurs, and then Oakley Booth as a 15-16 year old for Spurs. Oakley Booth seems to have fallen in stature, and Kirby went to Palace shortly after. Loader used to be there for the 2000 group, but Brewster overtook him as the striker.
You’re missing a few in the 2002 group. Musah is probably the biggest talent and then there’s Madueke, Sarmiento, Carvalho, Knight, Doyle, Harwood-Bellis, Bondswell and Mighten.

From the 03s there is Patino, Delap, Humphreys, Ohio and Balagizi. Lot of dual nationals in the 03 group. I’m guessing Musiala will go with Germany now he’s signed for Bayern as it’s the country of his birth and Ohio has been with Holland a lot too.

They’re a really talented group but and some of the standouts might be as good as the 01s but I don’t think the same depth is there.

I don’t know much about the 04s.
 

In Rainbows

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You’re missing a few in the 2002 group. Musah is probably the biggest talent and then there’s Madueke, Sarmiento, Carvalho, Knight, Doyle, Harwood-Bellis, Bondswell and Mighten.

From the 03s there is Patino, Delap, Humphreys, Ohio and Balagizi. Lot of dual nationals in the 03 group. I’m guessing Musiala will go with Germany now he’s signed for Bayern as it’s the country of his birth and Ohio has been with Holland a lot too.

They’re a really talented group but and some of the standouts might be as good as the 01s but I don’t think the same depth is there.

I don’t know much about the 04s.
Isn't that a little too much? I like to use the 2000 group as the standard and then trying to fit in which talents wouldn't look out of place if they were born in that generation. So this means that most generations wouldn't have as many names as the 2000 group because they're not as talented.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Isn't that a little too much? I like to use the 2000 group as the standard and then trying to fit in which talents wouldn't look out of place if they were born in that generation. So this means that most generations wouldn't have as many names as the 2000 group because they're not as talented.
I don’t think so no, obviously few will make it but there are so many really talented youth players around the same level there at the moment.

We’re actually missing Saka from the 01s who is a stand out too.

If you want to trim it down I’d say

01 Greenwood, Saka, Laird, Garner
02 Musah, Madueke, Carvalho, Doyle, Harwood-Bellis
03 Bellingham, Barry, Dembele, Elliot, Patino

Bias to attacking players is apparent.
 

In Rainbows

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Just realized it's the same Bellingham video you posted in your OP via twitter.


The way he dribbles with the ball reminds me of Ravel's elegance.
 
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Classical Mechanic

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It will be interesting to see the first call-ups of the new season given the number of dual nationals we have and the debacle at the u17 Euros getting some of the registered.
 

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Classical Mechanic

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The interesting points there are Brewster and Greenwood being included. Brewster yet to appear for Liverpool and Greenwood only 17 and inexperienced. Cantwell called up.

Gomes and Williams in with the u20s


Doyle- Garner - Jones in midfield will be strong


Carvalho was called up to Portugal too but looks like he's decided to stay with England. Good to see Musah in there too but I kind of expected him to continue with England. Mengi with a call up.


Big news there is that it looks like Musiala has turned down Germany's call up, with him joining Bayern I thought he would switch to Germany from now on. Dembele injured but no Ohio looks ominous.
 
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Sea-Cow

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Thank you for posting that summary.

Am I wrong in counting a total of 5 of our lads?

Kinda concerning, no?
 

Sean_RedDevil

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Some squads would even be stronger but few players are injured.....
U21: R.Sessegnon, Kelly, Bogle & (Jay) Dasilva
U20: Smith-Rowe
U19: Laird
U18: S.Greenwood & Sarmiento
U17: Dembele

U21
What the feck no Longstaff, Tomori, Barnes, Choudhury, Diangana, Tuanzebe or Ronaldo Vieira :rolleyes:

U20
Great to see Latibaeudiere is back.

Oxford and Ennis should be in too.

U19
Doyle- Garner - Jones in midfield will be strong
A shame that Laird is injured because then the starting XI would be awesome :drool:

But where is Appiah?

U18
Carvalho was called up to Portugal too but looks like he's decided to stay with England. Good to see Musah in there too but I kind of expected him to continue with England. Mengi with a call up.
Fantastic that Carvalho and Musah are still there :)

No Oko-Flex :confused:

U17
Big news there is that it looks like Musiala has turned down Germany's call up, with him joining Bayern I thought he would switch to Germany from now on. Dembele injured but no Ohio looks ominous.
Yep that is a great shock that Musiala has turned Germany for now :eek::D

The squad is so feckin hot :drool:
 
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JulesWinnfield

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Doyle- Garner - Jones in midfield will be strong
I would have Anjorin over Jones, he's come leaps and bounds the past season and has started this season great as well (although Anjorin was always disadvantaged in the first place by his late birthday). Jones on the other hand seemed to stagnate somewhat last season.
 

In Rainbows

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The interesting points there are Brewster and Greenwood being included. Brewster yet to appear for Liverpool and Greenwood only 17 and inexperienced. Cantwell called up.

Gomes and Williams in with the u20s


Doyle- Garner - Jones in midfield will be strong


Carvalho was called up to Portugal too but looks like he's decided to stay with England. Good to see Musah in there too but I kind of expected him to continue with England. Mengi with a call up.


Big news there is that it looks like Musiala has turned down Germany's call up, with him joining Bayern I thought he would switch to Germany from now on. Dembele injured but no Ohio looks ominous.
It's a bit weird that Gomes isn't with the u21s, but Brewster is. I don't mind them being aggressive with certain talents, but would think Gomes should have been one of those. Gomes was brilliant last season, is really talented, did well in preseason, and started the season very well.

The English talent seems on another level compared to previous generations. Maybe my memory is just wrong, but it's pretty stacked.
 

Classical Mechanic

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It's a bit weird that Gomes isn't with the u21s, but Brewster is. I don't mind them being aggressive with certain talents, but would think Gomes should have been one of those. Gomes was brilliant last season, is really talented, did well in preseason, and started the season very well.

The English talent seems on another level compared to previous generations. Maybe my memory is just wrong, but it's pretty stacked.
It is totally stacked. The 18s and 20s used to be really unimpressive but now they have loads of talent in them because there’s to much to accommodate in the competitive age groups.

@Sean_RedDevil

I don’t see Oko-Flex playing for England long term. The asence of Ronaldo Viera is curious too given he's a starting player at Sampdoria this season so far. The squad is very inexperienced and he has lots of it.
 
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Lash

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Thanks for all your efforts/opinions in this thread, all of you. Good to get an insight for England youth setup.
 

Sean_RedDevil

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I don’t see Oko-Flex playing for England long term. The asence of Ronaldo Viera is curious too given he's a starting player at Sampdoria this season so far. The squad is very inexperienced and he has lots of it.
Yeah you are probably right but he isn't in the Ireland squad therefore i thought.....
I'm curious to see how Xavier Simons does, simply because he shares a name with the much hyped Xavier Simons at Barcelona.
He is better ;)
England u17's Jude Bellingham (16) just got his first senior goal in The Championship to put Birmingham 2-1 up.
Hopefully he will stay there.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Yeah you are probably right but he isn't in the Ireland squad therefore i thought.....

He is better ;)

Hopefully he will stay there.
I read on another England forum that Bellingham and his family have decided that his career would be better served if he developed at Birmingham and that he won't rush to join a big club. The goal was a big deflection but the lad only turned 16 in June!

There was an interview with Oko-Flex where he said he might play for England because he thought he would earn more money. It kind of left me questioning his attitude a bit really.
 

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I read on another England forum that Bellingham and his family have decided that his career would be better served if he developed at Birmingham and that he won't rush to join a big club. The goal was a big deflection but the lad only turned 16 in June!
I have heard that Leicester City are very interested.
Hopefully they are still thinking so in January.
Obviously a long way too go but Birmingham City are having this time really a world-class talent......Redmond and Gray were very good talents.

There was an interview with Oko-Flex where he said he might play for England because he thought he would earn more money. It kind of left me questioning his attitude a bit really.
Hmmmhhh
 

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The U19's have won their first game of the new season (Friendly) 3-1 against Greece.
Good result because most of the best players were on the bench (Probably rested for the tougher test against Germany on Monday) and team is without Garner, Laird, Balogun, Appiah, Duncan, Amaechi & Buchanan.

Team
Starting XI:
Jeacock - Mumba, Alese, Harwood-Bellis, L.Thomas (from Leicester City) - J.Ramsey, Sibley, Doyle - Gordon, Edmondson, Adshead
Substitutes: Dewhurst -> Jeacock 46, John-Jules -> Edmondson 62, Saka -> Adshead 62, Jones -> Gordon 62 & Mola -> Sibley 73
Substitutes not used: Ashby-Hammond, Daley-Campbell, R.Williams, Binks, Maghoma, Anjorin, Jones, & Whittaker

Goals
0-1 Georgios
1-1 Adshead 28
2-1 Edmondson 55
3-1 Doyle 75 (Penalty)
The match was at St George's Park so
 
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Sean_RedDevil

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Good that our boys Gomes and Williams have started the match.
The positions goalkeeper, defence and midfield looked quite good for a U20 team but the forward options (especially no real striker) were pretty bad......Loader and Clarke are starting hopefully in Switzerland.

Team

Starting XI:
Bursik - Lamptey, Latibeaudiere, Tanganga, B.Williams - Gomes, Gallagher, Dozzell - Bolton, Leko, Giles
Substitutes: Clarke for Giles 67 + Loader for Leko 67
Substitutes not used: McGill, Griffiths, Ferguson, Gibson, Slattery, Shackelton, Tavernier & L.Thomas (from Barnsley)

The other results from the Elite League
Germany 4-2 Czech Republic
Italy 2-0 Poland
Portugal 2-2 Switzerland
 
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Classical Mechanic

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Good that our boys Gomes and Williams have started the match.
The positions goalkeeper, defence and midfield looked quite good for a U20 team but the forward options (especially no real striker) were pretty bad......Loader and Clarke are starting hopefully in Switzerland.

Team

Starting XI:
Bursik - Lamptey, Latibeaudiere, Tanganga, B.Williams - Gomes, Gallagher, Dozzell - Bolton, Leko, Giles
Bench: McGill, Griffiths, Ferguson, Gibson, Slattery, Shackelton, Tavernier, L.Thomas, Clarke & Loader

The other results from the Elite League
Germany 4-2 Czech Republic
Italy 2-0 Poland
Portugal 2-2 Switzerland
I think its the worst squad out of all the groups in this break though. The result makes sense considering the strengths and weaknesses of the group.
 

Tickle Lad

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Does anyone know how eligible players are allocated to each age group?

For example you'd think the best players would be in the u21s, then the second best in the u20s etc etc, but it always seems like the u19s are stronger than the u20s.
 

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Mason played about 30 minutes, wasn't very involved.
 

Classical Mechanic

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Decent win in the end. Horrible pitch and toxic Turkish atmosphere. Nketiah our best player. Greenwood got about 30 minutes and showed his quality in moments. Ended up with Brewster, Nketiah and Greenwood on at the end so 3 number 9s?! Not sure where Greenwood was supposed to playing really.