This is for the folks who've been supporting United for at least 24 years. Before SAF was brought on, what did you think about him? Did you know much about him? Were you hoping we'd hire him? Give me your thoughts.
Your thoughts on Ferguson before he came here
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
To be honest, I didnt really know what to think. But then Big ron had got us in a bit of a crap run of form. I heard he was quite a hard task master. Probably proved that when he made choccy cut his hair before signing him and breaking up the drinking culture.
I was only about 10 years old so my memories are of the pre adolescent kind .... but I do remember that he definitely had a 'aura' about him. And it was clear from the very beginning that he was on a mission and was going to be a taskmaster.
I remember my late Dad telling me that United had shown that mean business by appointing such a talented and respected figure and that this was why he supported United, because we always went for the best. My point being, it was a marque type appoinment, much like Cappello for England or when Mourinho signed for the Chavs.
You have to remember that there was far less difference between the Scottish PL and the then called 1st Division, so SAFs achievements at Aberdeen carried alot of weight and had currency.
I remember my late Dad telling me that United had shown that mean business by appointing such a talented and respected figure and that this was why he supported United, because we always went for the best. My point being, it was a marque type appoinment, much like Cappello for England or when Mourinho signed for the Chavs.
You have to remember that there was far less difference between the Scottish PL and the then called 1st Division, so SAFs achievements at Aberdeen carried alot of weight and had currency.
You are right. United had built up a reputation for being abit like Spurs. A glamour club which was not punching its weight. SAFs appointment was a clear signal from the board that they were serious about being a proper football club and that things would change dramatically. And how they did!
His reputation was as good as any other British manager of the time and I was hopeful he could win the league at some point, which was what we all wanted. However, I did not expect him to take us so completely out of Liverpool's shadow. That was a bonus.
I was sure he was going to be the most successfull manager in the history of the game ever. Seems I was spot on.
I am an Aberdeen supporter as well as United one and during the time he was in charge up here he had a top class youth system setup producing great young players and he did the same for United. He along with McLean at Dundee United broke the Old Firm dominance in the leagues and cups in the early 80s. He also had the drive and desire in his system to do the same at any club he managed so i knew he would do the same for us when he got here.
The Cup Winners Cup run to the final raised his profile with a lot of people as beating the likes of Bayern Munich and then Real Madrid in the final with what was a provincial in Scotland at the time sent shock waves through Europe. Then beating Hamburg in the Super Cup the season after definitely brought him to even more interest from clubs around Europe. He also beat the likes of Ipswich in Europe who at the time were one of the big clubs in England so showed what he could do against top cluns at the time, also i think Sir Bobby Robson managed Ipswich then as well.
If you look around as well at his ex players a few of them are now in management or coaching McGhee at Aberdeen, McLeish at Birmingham and Bruce at Sunderland plus various other coaches like Ole. This is also another aspect of SAF other managers raised in his mind set doing well at other clubs.
He was a lot more firey up here and one of his famous outbursts after one scrappy Scottish Cup Final win was to question the desire of the players for their display, thing is this was only days after the Cup Winners Cup win from memory so he has always been a hard taskmaster to please. Which at the time was what we needed here to sort the club out and bring it back to where it belonged at the top of the English game.
The Cup Winners Cup run to the final raised his profile with a lot of people as beating the likes of Bayern Munich and then Real Madrid in the final with what was a provincial in Scotland at the time sent shock waves through Europe. Then beating Hamburg in the Super Cup the season after definitely brought him to even more interest from clubs around Europe. He also beat the likes of Ipswich in Europe who at the time were one of the big clubs in England so showed what he could do against top cluns at the time, also i think Sir Bobby Robson managed Ipswich then as well.
If you look around as well at his ex players a few of them are now in management or coaching McGhee at Aberdeen, McLeish at Birmingham and Bruce at Sunderland plus various other coaches like Ole. This is also another aspect of SAF other managers raised in his mind set doing well at other clubs.
He was a lot more firey up here and one of his famous outbursts after one scrappy Scottish Cup Final win was to question the desire of the players for their display, thing is this was only days after the Cup Winners Cup win from memory so he has always been a hard taskmaster to please. Which at the time was what we needed here to sort the club out and bring it back to where it belonged at the top of the English game.
It's hard not to merge the entire post-Busby pre-SAF era into a single blob of hope, disappointment and envy.
Huge crowds watching some very ordinary teams (and the occasional extraordinary player) led by some managers who had only part of the ability and the charisma the team and the club needed. Meanwhile we watched people like Revie, Shankley, Paisley and Clough - and ours looked like hopeful punts, not battled hardened winners.
When SAF came he was as big and as successful a manager as we could realistically hope to get - even if the Scottish manager angle seemed a bit like clutching at history - at least he had a pedigree as a winner. It seemed like a statement of intent and ambition. The next few seasons weren't really what we were dreaming of but it all worked out in the end.
Huge crowds watching some very ordinary teams (and the occasional extraordinary player) led by some managers who had only part of the ability and the charisma the team and the club needed. Meanwhile we watched people like Revie, Shankley, Paisley and Clough - and ours looked like hopeful punts, not battled hardened winners.
When SAF came he was as big and as successful a manager as we could realistically hope to get - even if the Scottish manager angle seemed a bit like clutching at history - at least he had a pedigree as a winner. It seemed like a statement of intent and ambition. The next few seasons weren't really what we were dreaming of but it all worked out in the end.
Really interesting reading people describing the appointment of SAF as "marquee apointment" and a "statement of intent". I say that because a lot of the time his appointment is used as a comparative for clubs putting their trust in British managers, but there aren't really any comparative managers like that these days. I guess due to the globalised nature of the game, but it's fascinating to hear people compare his appointment to Mourinho or Capello. I was too young to really pay much attention to it at the time, all I was aware of was a team called Manchester United who played football and I knew I liked them, but it really is fascinating reading people's views of that appointment. Nice thread Dorothy
I was 6 when he was brought on. All I know about SAF back then was that my grandfather called him "that bloody Scot" and lacked confidence in his managerial skills.
Ay, whenever I talk to elders about when Fergie was appointed that is usually the response they tell me, that there were few who actually thought he was the man for the job, based simply by some by his nationality
We actually lived in Aberdeen then Banchory when Sir Alex was in charge after seeing what he did at Pittodrie there was no doubt that he would do something at United, though I doubt anybody would have expected so much.
I remember that tirade now that you mention it
I was hopefull but no more hopeful than when we appointed Sexton and Atkinson. He had done well at Aberdeen but going to United was a big step up.
What I failed to appreciate was just how well he had done at Aberdeen. During his eight seasons there (1978/79 to 1985/86), the 24 domestic honours had been won as follows:-
Aberdeen 8
Celtic 7
Rangers 6
Dundee United 3.
No other Scottish club has had a similar period of sustained success against the Old Firm.
Fergie's success at United dwarfs that but he has been extremely successful as a financial underdog as well as with megabucks.
What I failed to appreciate was just how well he had done at Aberdeen. During his eight seasons there (1978/79 to 1985/86), the 24 domestic honours had been won as follows:-
Aberdeen 8
Celtic 7
Rangers 6
Dundee United 3.
No other Scottish club has had a similar period of sustained success against the Old Firm.
Fergie's success at United dwarfs that but he has been extremely successful as a financial underdog as well as with megabucks.
All i remember is how low my expectations were that I thought why are we getting rid of big ron
Lets be honest,the best manager in the world would not be given a four year 'settling in period' at any big club nowadays ....We were lucky the board showed faith 'cus after the 5 1 drubbing at Citeh in '89 I'll admit, I had my doubts!
Mark Robins...marvellous!
Mark Robins...marvellous!
I didn't think much about it at the time apart from being glad Atkinson got the boot who I never wanted as United manager and never liked.
First memory of Fergie was the Aberdeen/Real Madrid final..can't remember if it was CWC or UEFA Cup..I could tell even then he was a good coach. Breaking up the Old Firm like he did, pretty much the only time its ever been broken up and winning in Europe got him the United job imo!
Didnt know a thing about him.
Obviously knew he'd done well at Aberdeen, but that was the sum of it.
Atkinson had to go, we knew that much, and I think many were expecting somoene like Cloughie to get the job...
Fergie arrived as pretty much an unknown entity, and two years later the fans were so sick of it they were screaming for his head. United were worse than when Atkinson was running things.
Some say that the Mark Robbins goal saved his neck. I disagree. I think it was the 0-0 draw away to Liverpool that saved his neck. Had he lost that game I think the pressure to get rid would have been too immense for hte board to notice. Fortunately we got a good point away to the dippers and we slowly improved.. Hence he's still here today.
Obviously knew he'd done well at Aberdeen, but that was the sum of it.
Atkinson had to go, we knew that much, and I think many were expecting somoene like Cloughie to get the job...
Fergie arrived as pretty much an unknown entity, and two years later the fans were so sick of it they were screaming for his head. United were worse than when Atkinson was running things.
Some say that the Mark Robbins goal saved his neck. I disagree. I think it was the 0-0 draw away to Liverpool that saved his neck. Had he lost that game I think the pressure to get rid would have been too immense for hte board to notice. Fortunately we got a good point away to the dippers and we slowly improved.. Hence he's still here today.
I was gutted that he was leaving Aberdeen but thrilled he was going to United having been a United fan since about 1967. I was surprised it took him so long to get United sorted.
I remember the Scottish Cup Final rant as well.
The big problem for me now is that a generation or two expect as a right that we win trophies every season, maybe thats what I should expect too but I remember when we were relegated
I remember the Scottish Cup Final rant as well.
The big problem for me now is that a generation or two expect as a right that we win trophies every season, maybe thats what I should expect too but I remember when we were relegated
Being from the other side of the world, I didn't know a whole lot about Scottish football or Sir Alex's achievements with Aberdeen in Europe. I was in the army then and I remember my United supporting mates and I were not too excited about his appointment, in fact we were far too preoccupied with the verbal warfare we had with the Liverpool supporting guys, who used to outnumber us 3 to 1 back in the day.
Thanks to Sir Alex, the Liverpool lads have been mostly mute for the past 18 years, except perhaps during their plastic treble year and their CL win. Thank you Sir Alex, long may that continue.
Thanks to Sir Alex, the Liverpool lads have been mostly mute for the past 18 years, except perhaps during their plastic treble year and their CL win. Thank you Sir Alex, long may that continue.
Like many, my only knowledge of Fergie was what he had done at Aberdeen. I was aware that he had broken up the Old Firm status quo, but hadn't realised how big of an achievement that was till a little later, when Aberdeen fell away so quickly after he had left.
He came in with the MEN telling us he was going to be firm, and sort out the team. He quickly moved popular players on for what ever reason and the team had only improved slightly. Then as Fred put it, we got lucky in the 90 cup run, and managed to stay up as well that year. It wasn't untill we won the Cup Winners Cup that perhaps he started to win the fans around.
Just thinking back, to that 90 cup run, unlike Atkinson Fergie put his faith in his youngsters, he was rebuilding our youth system that had been left to rot by Atkinson. The luck we got from that Robins goal, was perhaps the difference between Fergie and Atkinson. Who knows had that team we had in 85-86 stayed fit, had we won the league then, would Atkinson have been able to build a second team? The weight of the past hung heavy at United at that point, how many times we had to hear the 20, 21, 22 years chant aimed at us? Once we got rid of those weights we've not looked back. The saying goes you make your own luck, and Fergie did just that by paying attention to the youth system unlike Atkinson.
He came in with the MEN telling us he was going to be firm, and sort out the team. He quickly moved popular players on for what ever reason and the team had only improved slightly. Then as Fred put it, we got lucky in the 90 cup run, and managed to stay up as well that year. It wasn't untill we won the Cup Winners Cup that perhaps he started to win the fans around.
Just thinking back, to that 90 cup run, unlike Atkinson Fergie put his faith in his youngsters, he was rebuilding our youth system that had been left to rot by Atkinson. The luck we got from that Robins goal, was perhaps the difference between Fergie and Atkinson. Who knows had that team we had in 85-86 stayed fit, had we won the league then, would Atkinson have been able to build a second team? The weight of the past hung heavy at United at that point, how many times we had to hear the 20, 21, 22 years chant aimed at us? Once we got rid of those weights we've not looked back. The saying goes you make your own luck, and Fergie did just that by paying attention to the youth system unlike Atkinson.
I was only 8 but I remember watching Granada Reports on the night Big Ron was sacked and it said that United were in talks with Aberdeen about their manager Alex Ferguson. Ron should have left the previous summer after 1985-86 turned into a disaster. I was watching ESPN classic the other week and they showed United getting beaten in the last minute by a Kerry Dixon goal at home to Chelsea (1-2). Painful!
It's interesting you mention watching older games in your reply. It got me thinking back, as to my mentallity going to games in those days. I think due to a combination of lack of success, and quality of the team, I don't think I went to games expecting to win, more we may win, to see us lose then wasn't as painful as it is now, as now it could cost us winning the league. So to lose to a last minute winner then would be not expected, but something probably stung a little harder, but we'd be over it quicker then.
I like this thread
With respect to your dear Dad Sammsky that is not how I remember it. We had the human mouse of Dave Sexton then the bullshitter Fat Ron. Neither were anywhere near the best available at the time. The United board had lost the will to live let alone compete with the very best. Fergie's appointment was pure luck. The fact he was interested having done all he could at Aberdeen and he was dirt cheap. For years afterwards Fergie wasn't even in the top five highest paid coaches and it was only when he got a tipoff from George Graham that he realised his true worth. At the time I thought he was a good appointment but he was not my first choice. You could see the youth policy building but his ruthless policy towards the old guard made me very sad as Big Norm was a hero at the time and I would never have dreamed of the success we have enjoyed since.
Very true and a very good comparison for the younger fans. United could and did beat any team in Europe on their day but were unable to prove their consistency over a whole season. Fergie ultimately created a team hewn from the Aberdeen granite of his aprenticeship.
Who was your first choice?
Lou Macari from Swindon or Arry Redknapp from Bournemouth
I remember that he'd come to the fore in Scotland for breaking up the Old Firm cartel on Jock trophies - IIRC he's still the last manager to take the League Title from the Glasgow giants. Obviously the ECWC win in Gothenburg versus Real was stellar for him and Aberdeen.
It was clear that United did need a disciplinarian, and though I liked McGrath & Whiteside, he had to get rid of them to make an example - McGrath's embarassing performance on ITV's "kick-off" programme on the Friday before a match being the last straw me thinks........
Once he showed he had some b*lls down here, I thought he had a chance.....
It was clear that United did need a disciplinarian, and though I liked McGrath & Whiteside, he had to get rid of them to make an example - McGrath's embarassing performance on ITV's "kick-off" programme on the Friday before a match being the last straw me thinks........
Once he showed he had some b*lls down here, I thought he had a chance.....
"hopeful" is how I felt too. Although I was well aware of his achievements in Scotland and his success in Europe, I went to watch his Aberdeen side at Liverpool hoping they'd put one over them. They were put back in their little box by a Liverpool side at it's best, so it kind of put things in some perspective for me. So, it was hope rather than expectation for me.
were they not other clubs wanting to appoint Fergie as their manager? other big clubs like arsenal?
I was only six myself, so have only ever really known Fergie.
I can remember Atkinson a bit but most of my knowledge and thoughts on sort of pre-1989 is from history books, videos and word of mouth.
Looking back, it seems weird now but we were this huge club with good players and a great stadium but never seemed to merit our standings, especially when it came down to trophies as we hardly won anything. Up until I was ten years old, we had won only the FA Cup (three times) in my life-time, so for me, the FA Cup held a lot of sway and I used to argue with a couple of Liverpool fans at school (yes, in the Eighties and Nineties, Liverpool fans were not prominent, but definitely around in Manchester) that the FA Cup was better than the league and to me, as a naive kid, it was.
As for Fergie, I heard that Terry Venables was the main candidate to take over until Charlton suggested Ferguson given his achievements with Aberdeen. Fergie had also been approached by Spurs and/or Arsenal, not sure which but George Graham got the nod, luckily for us.
I can remember Atkinson a bit but most of my knowledge and thoughts on sort of pre-1989 is from history books, videos and word of mouth.
Looking back, it seems weird now but we were this huge club with good players and a great stadium but never seemed to merit our standings, especially when it came down to trophies as we hardly won anything. Up until I was ten years old, we had won only the FA Cup (three times) in my life-time, so for me, the FA Cup held a lot of sway and I used to argue with a couple of Liverpool fans at school (yes, in the Eighties and Nineties, Liverpool fans were not prominent, but definitely around in Manchester) that the FA Cup was better than the league and to me, as a naive kid, it was.
As for Fergie, I heard that Terry Venables was the main candidate to take over until Charlton suggested Ferguson given his achievements with Aberdeen. Fergie had also been approached by Spurs and/or Arsenal, not sure which but George Graham got the nod, luckily for us.