SirScholes
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- Jan 26, 2014
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They didn’t win anything last season so no I wouldn’t say that?On paper you think that the team they had last season was close to the best team in the world?
They didn’t win anything last season so no I wouldn’t say that?On paper you think that the team they had last season was close to the best team in the world?
So we wouldn’t of done better? With kroos Casemiro and modric?We finished 2nd with 74 points and 12 points away from the league leader.
I like how delusional it's to think having a better midfielder than Scott and Fred will be enough to make Ole's United jump from 66-74 points to +87 points to win the league.
People were saying the same about Sancho. "Fecking the board fecking up Ole by not paying 120m for Sancho to solve our RW". Now Sancho is rotting on the bench.
Link to said handle?Flows from Castles vs the Rodgers leaks.
A twitter handle reckons Ole and the club decided to part ways a few weeks back with a gentleman's agreement for Ole to step down before Christmas and Zidane is being lined up.
Could be nonsense.
So you rate a set of players based on what they won, under and overperformances aren't a thing? During the last two seasons Real Madrid have won the title once, reached the CL semi finals once and finished at 2 points of the champions. Do you think that this team was on paper the best team in the world or close to it?They didn’t win anything last season so no I wouldn’t say that?
Not with a manager who's unable to use them, no. One or two players won't be enough to make the jump from getting 66-74 to close to 90 points.So we wouldn’t of done better? With kroos Casemiro and modric?
disclaimer: I don’t want Ole or Brendon. Not convinced by zidane, wouldnt say no, wouldn’t be hyped.
It's more hypothesis which concludes nonsense. Zidane has overachieved given his managerial experiences. Ole has underachieved. To join this criteria of thought would Solskjaer have won back to back UCL and the La Liga title if he was in charge of Madrid ?You can’t use Oles poor management skills as a reason to say zidane is a “phenomenal” manager
Correct, Ole had the best team. And despite the best team having the worst manager we still finished second.
Now imagine that same team didn’t have Mcfred and slow man Pogba, but instead it had Kroos modric and Casemiro
tell me that team doesn’t walk the league
And to think that we used to argue on opposite sides of the Zidane debate.Not with a manager who's unable to use them, no. One or two players won't be enough to make the jump from getting 66-74 to close to 90 points.
Last 13 years Madrid won the league only 3 times and two of them were under Zidane. It's ridiculous to think that they only did it because they have great players while their league record has been pretty damn poor for years prior to him arriving. Not to mention he also won the league in his 2nd stint with a team far worse than the one that won the treble CL achievement.
You're free to be convinced by him or not. Discrediting him though is ridiculous.
That's right. I changed my opinion on him during his 2nd stint at Madrid though, because as I said, he was still achieving with a team that's far worse than the team in his first stint, still kept them very competitive, won the league and challenged for CL. He proved he's a quality manager and it's not just players, so I don't know why this argument is still on. I'm always very flexible and know when someone convinces me he's good enough.And to think that we used to argue on opposite sides of the Zidane debate.
Was just looking up his second stint, as I don't watch La Liga, and the win percentage was the worst of any Real Madrid manager with more than 14 games since 2008.That's right. I changed my opinion on him during his 2nd stint at Madrid though, because as I said, he was still achieving with a team that's far worse than the team in his first stint, still kept them very competitive, won the league and challenged for CL. He proved he's a quality manager and it's not just players, so I don't know why this argument is still on. I'm always very flexible and know when someone convinces me he's good enough.
And that's to your credit because I could understand why people put that much weight on the quality of his team during his first stint, having players like Ronaldo and Marcelo in their primes matters when it comes to winning silverware. The thing that I still don't understand is that many people, many analysts have highlighted the strength of Zidane which are tactical, the way he sets up Real Madrid and the way he routinely adapted in-game when things weren't going well, you can't do that repeatedly for several seasons and still have people question your abilities it makes no sense.That's right. I changed my opinion on him during his 2nd stint at Madrid though, because as I said, he was still achieving with a team that's far worse than the team in his first stint, still kept them very competitive, won the league and challenged for CL. He proved he's a quality manager and it's not just players, so I don't know why this argument is still on. I'm always very flexible and know when someone convinces me he's good enough.
I think you messed up is what I think.So you rate a set of players based on what they won, under and overperformances aren't a thing? During the last two seasons Real Madrid have won the title once, reached the CL semi finals once and finished at 2 points of the champions. Do you think that this team was on paper the best team in the world or close to it?
Ole has a higher win percentage than Sir Matt Busby. Does that mean anything else ?Was just looking up his second stint, as I don't watch La Liga, and the win percentage was the worst of any Real Madrid manager with more than 14 games since 2008.
Doesn't fill me with confidence.
Not discrediting, just saying calling him a phenomenal manager is a bit extremeNot with a manager who's unable to use them, no. One or two players won't be enough to make the jump from getting 66-74 to close to 90 points.
Last 13 years Madrid won the league only 3 times and two of them were under Zidane. It's ridiculous to think that they only did it because they have great players while their league record has been pretty damn poor for years prior to him arriving. Not to mention he also won the league in his 2nd stint with a team far worse than the one that won the treble CL achievement.
You're free to be convinced by him or not. Discrediting him though is ridiculous.
What exactly have I messed up, as Real Madrid close to the best team in the world between 2019-2012? It's the first time that I see anyone suggest that Real Madrid were a perfect situation during that period, in fact the caf mainly thought that it was a tough rebuild for Real Madrid.I think you messed up is what I think.
I was responding to zidane being labelled a “phenomenal manager”
With the team he had at the time, I would say his success was amazing but not totally surprising given the team he had, I’d say they had a complete team with a manager that knew them very well, basically the perfect recipe for success
he’d be walking into the complete opposite situation here
Think Busby had a better excuse, to be honest.Ole has a higher win percentage than Sir Matt Busby. Does that mean anything else ?
From what I've seen and read it's not so much that he doesn't have a style (you could probably quite safely predict inside forwards, advanced fullbacks, a lot of crosses and slightly ponderous possession football in most teams he ends up coaching). Or indeed that he isn't good tactically, in his own way. It's more that he isn't the sort of detailed system-manager the modern football meta has swung towards. And while Zidane's approach could work, I'd like us to modernise, all across the club.I thought we wanted a manager with a clear style of play. Not sure its the best move to go for Zidane infamous for not having a "style"
Again, I’m not comparing Ole, no he wouldn’t ofIt's more hypothesis which concludes nonsense. Zidane has overachieved given his managerial experiences. Ole has underachieved. To join this criteria of thought would Solskjaer have won back to back UCL and the La Liga title if he was in charge of Madrid ?
I don't see any United team walking the league under Solskjaer. Context is important, there was a period United were 1st in the league last season and the manager conceded that the team wasn't challenging despite being first. Ole has proven that his biggest weakness is actually his mentality.
It's their worst squad of the last decade.Was just looking up his second stint, as I don't watch La Liga, and the win percentage was the worst of any Real Madrid manager with more than 14 games since 2008.
Doesn't fill me with confidence.
Last years? What was the starting XI generally?It's their worst squad of the last decade.
They absolutely need a rebuild and I don’t envy the guy that has to do it because like us they’ll need a whole new midfield.What exactly have I messed up, as Real Madrid close to the best team in the world between 2019-2012? It's the first time that I see anyone suggest that Real Madrid were a perfect situation during that period, in fact the caf mainly thought that it was a tough rebuild for Real Madrid.
Courtois; Vasquez, Varane, Nacho, Mendy; Casemiro, Kroos, Modric; Vinicius, Someone, Benzema.Last years? What was the starting XI generally?
A declined Modric, Asensio isn't a particularly good player and was largely injured in 19/20 anyway, Ramos had declined and then was out for most of last season. So we are basically talking about 4 quality players in their prime, that's not close to the best team in the world, we both know it, so I don't see why you have an issue with that statement or can claim that I messed up.They absolutely need a rebuild and I don’t envy the guy that has to do it because like us they’ll need a whole new midfield.
But zidane had those players.
Modric kroos Casemiro varane Ramos ascensio benzema were still very very good players who had played together for some time. The spine of the team has remained unchanged.
Well, he spent half a season with no chance to win anything and the squad was unmotivated and underperformed. He did that to save Florentino's ass.Was just looking up his second stint, as I don't watch La Liga, and the win percentage was the worst of any Real Madrid manager with more than 14 games since 2008.
Doesn't fill me with confidence.
Ffs he had one of the best teams in the league if not the best and he won the leagueA declined Modric, Asensio isn't a particularly good player and was largely injured in 19/20 anyway, Ramos had declined and then was out for most of last season. So we are basically talking about 4 quality players in their prime, that's not close to the best team in the world, we both know it, so I don't see why you have an issue with that statement or can claim that I messed up.
PS: I'll also give you Courtois.
Zidane's work at Real is phenominal - nothing short. First manager in history for back to back Champions Leagues. Won 3 with them overall didn't he?Ffs he had one of the best teams in the league if not the best and he won the league
He’s done well…it’s not phenomenal to win la liga with that team
edit: 19/20 Ramos played 35 games in la liga and scored 11 goals, so he did alright. Not sure why you keep mentioning 20/21 season
Are you serious? The post that you quoted was about his second stint and as far as I know it includes both seasons, not only you are unnecessarily rude but you are also starting to be a bit dumb?Ffs he had one of the best teams in the league if not the best and he won the league
He’s done well…it’s not phenomenal to win la liga with that team
edit: 19/20 Ramos played 35 games in la liga and scored 11 goals, so he did alright. Not sure why you keep mentioning 20/21 season
ill side step the dumb comment, not a fan of making things personal.Are you serious? The post that you quoted was about his second stint and as far as I know it includes both seasons, not only you are unnecessarily rude but you are also starting to be a bit dumb?
He proved he was a quality manager when he won the Champions League 3 years in a row. Any other opinion is just you being churlish I’m afraid.That's right. I changed my opinion on him during his 2nd stint at Madrid though, because as I said, he was still achieving with a team that's far worse than the team in his first stint, still kept them very competitive, won the league and challenged for CL. He proved he's a quality manager and it's not just players, so I don't know why this argument is still on. I'm always very flexible and know when someone convinces me he's good enough.
I didn't took ownership of the phenomenal label which is why I didn't mention it once, I simply added his second stint performances with a lesser team, a team that wasn't close to be the best in the world. Now you can call that stupid, messed up or whatever you want, that's your problem.ill side step the dumb comment, not a fan of making things personal.
i genuinely believed when talking about a manager being phenomenal, we’d be talking about their great seasons. But if you want to include last season that’s fine, so no I do not think Madrid last year were a “world 11” but they were atleast the second best team in the league, and they came second
The season before, they were atleast the second best team in the league, and they won.
I’d say that’s a good but not “phenomenal” job
Take*
ok been a great few minutes splitting hairs.
despite his success with one of the great real sides I don’t think he’s right for us. Seen very little here to sway that.
If he signs I hope I’m wrong
Yes, Benitez struggled mightily. This nonsense around Zidane needs to stop.Wow, people are actually discrediting the job that Zidane did at Real Madrid. Its easy to say that he inherited a team glittered with world class players but history shows that is not enough. Pep had a collection of world class players and he couldn’t win the CL thrice. The original galacticos were not the all conquering team that they should have been on paper. Infact, Zidane took over from Benitez when the team was in the third place in La Liga. Its lazy criticism to reduce a phenomenal achievement to a mere good job.
This makes no sense. Zidane took over a team that was struggling to come together and were nowhere near challenging for La Liga or the CL under Benitez, he turned them into a 3-peating CL champions and won 2 la Ligas with them. He came back to a team in disarray and without one of the greatest players of their generation and offensive leader where the whole system was based around him and managed to win La Liga again when everyone thought it was a mistake to put his legacy at risk to coach that team.It’s not the success at one club arguement at all...it’s the manner and circumstance of the success which make it tricky to assess the scope of the achievement. There is a chance he was in the right place at the right time with the right aura and right message as opposed to a great tactician who executed a master plan.
Utd fans are seeking the later I feel.
Just think that out of five seasons with something to compete the worst season consists of reaching one CL semifinal and finishing second one point behind the winner with a squad blown to pieces by COVID and injuries.ill side step the dumb comment, not a fan of making things personal.
i genuinely believed when talking about a manager being phenomenal, we’d be talking about their great seasons. But if you want to include last season that’s fine, so no I do not think Madrid last year were a “world 11” but they were atleast the second best team in the league, and they came second
The season before, they were atleast the second best team in the league, and they won.
I’d say that’s a good but not “phenomenal” job
Answered above, people can throw around whatever they like, Reals team was so good so settled and just needed some fine turning, I find it difficult to say yes, he is an absolute mustJust think that out of five seasons with something to compete the worst season consists of reaching one CL semifinal and finishing second one point behind the winner with a squad blown to pieces by COVID and injuries.