70s Fantasy Draft - Zen v Ralaks

[Brwned]

Zen

Just updating on my previous post with brief individual player sucking up.
Buffon - Probably the goalie of his generation despite the lack of a CL medal, although still winner of a best goalie in the CL, along with his World Cup Yashin Award and numerous Serie A and IFFHS goalie awards.

Salgado - A very important cog in two of Reals three CL wins of recent times. Tireless right back with a bit of aggression to the team. Spanish regular etc etc

Thuram - Again, one of the best of the generation in defence, a rock even when out of position by his own admission at right back, capable of adapting quickly and shutting out anyone. World cup winner and a superb performance in 2006 without Desailly, Blanc, Lebeouf with him that time.

Marquez - Not as great defensively as Thuram, but still a top class defender capable of coming forward and playing out of danger. One of Mexicans all time best, as proven by some brilliant performances in two world cups, once against his mate, Messi. CL winner of course.

Kaladze - A strong defender, consistent and versatile. Two time CL winner with Milan and once runner up, and proved with Genoa that he still has plenty to offer as one of the better defenders in Seria A last year.

Senna - The midfielders SAF wanted back in 2006, and has since gone to show the world exactly why Fergie wanted him, in the team of Euro 2008 and many pundits and fans claimed him as best player allowing Xavi the full freedom to be the best he's ever been imo, in my team that will be Deco, strong, can break up play, composed and take over playmaking duties if needed.

Sousa - Similar to Senna in that he can pass his way out of trouble as well being a composed DM in the tackle, back to back starter in CL finals, of which he ended up on the winning side both times with different teams. Injuries dogged him, but still a great talent with many deserved accolades to his name.

Deco - The man that made Joses Porto to click, who then went on to do the same for Rikjaards Barca winning CL's both times. Twice UEFA Midfielder of the year, and once Ballon d'Or runner up. Runner up in the Euros....although he faded quickly at Chelsea, for the first few months, showed his talent in the Premiership also.

Kewell - Once Young Player of the year in the Premiership and immense talent before injuries and eventual inconsistency dogged him after leaving Leeds. Both a creators and consistent scorer from anywhere in midfield or off a striker....and well....also a CL winner. YEAH!

Etxeberria - Only player in my team to win anything major, but don't let that fool you, an top talent and ultra loyal to Bilbao, even playing for free for a year pretty much. A consistent performance for both club and country, great attitude, and a solid scoring record too.

Totti - Living legend in Rome and deservedly so, World Cup winner, Euros Runner Up, Serie A Winner, Once italian top scorer playing as a false 9 pretty much...for a forward, has it all, movement, creativity, intelligence and scoring ability.

Elber - consistent 1 in 2 scorer, and fine striker, being instrumental in some of Bayerns late 90's to early 2000's success including goals home and away knocking out holders Madrid when they went on to win the CL in 2001. As with all in my team when it comes to the forwards, is capable of creating for others also, and not just being a selfish striker.

Sub: Sousa


Ralaks

Bench: Santiago Solari.

Hans-Jörg Butt:
Twice champions league runner up, lived in the shadow of Kahn and Lehmann but still managed to have a decent career at club level.

Paulo Ferreira:
His peak is probably his 2003-2006 years in which he won the PL twice, CL once among other stuff, solid full back.

Fabio Cannavaro:
Very solid centre back, Ballon d'Or winner, one of the only centrebacks to win this ever. He more or less won every individual award available this year so I'd say it's safe to assume this is his peak.

Carlos Marchena:
Big part of Spains defensive unit during the 2008 EC where they only conceeded two goals, due to this he earned a spot in the team of the tournament, also featured a lot for Valencia during his 9 year stint where they managed to win the Spanish league twice.

Giovanni van Bronckhorst:
Originally a midfielder, however he was turned into a left back by Rijkaard at Barcelona where he won two league titles as well as a CL.

Ruben Baraja:
El Pipo. Complete midfielder, and I mean that in the sense that he was a great tackler with decent passing as well as a nose for goals. He was even Valencias topscorer during the 2001/2002 season. If I was to pick a period where he peaked it would be 2001-2004 where he picked up 1 Uefa Cup and 2 Spanish titles of note. During this period he scored a goal every fifth game, which is a decent record for a central midfielder.

Phillip Cocu:
Another midfielder who has the engine and ability to play in a midfield two. His abilities are more defensive oriented than Baraja imo, and he'll sit slightly deeper. Almost 300 games for FC Barcelona, he was the foreign player with most games for the club before Messi reached and passed him during this season.

Pavel Nedved:
Another Ballon d'Or winner. One of them players who could do anything with a ball with both feet. He was an beast between the years 2002-2004 (and well he was very good outsite that time span as well) but during those years he was one of the best players on the planet.

Hasan Salihamidzic:
6 German titles to his name as well as four cups and one Champions League. Quick winger with great crossing accuracy, very strong mentally as well which is important when coming across some of the great full backs in this tournament. Lastly he is also tall and somewhat strong in the air (especially compared to other wingers) and thus he'll be a danger to contend with for opposing defenses whenever a corner or a freekick appears.

Simão:
Very comfortable with the ball at his feet (like every other winger out of Portugal, minus Bebe). Can take a cracking freekick and has a brilliant strike on his right foot as well. Can play up front as well if the need arise.

Filippo Inzaghi:
Second most prolific striker ever in European competitions (4 goals less than Raul at 74), AC Milan's topscorer in international competitions, also holds two hattrick records (10 in Serie A and 3 in Europe (shared with Owen)). Two times Champions League winner with AC Milan, was named MotM in 2007 as well. He'll bang them in for me, no doubt.

Small notes:
People are probably bored of reading by now so I'll keep this short, Baraja and Cocu will obviously form my midfield partnership, Cocu will play the more defensive role and Baraja will have more license to attack. Nedved will be allowed to do what he pleases really.

Tried to keep this as short as possible since most people won't bother reading it if there is too much text.

 

[Cutch]

Tbh i'm not really a fan of either of these sides. I think its probably because the wide men and strikers consist of players i never rated as highly as others did. (The images wont load for me btw so i'm guessing the formation).

Nedved nearly swung it for me in Ralaks favour but Zen gets my vote for having probably the stronger defence. Otherwise its pretty close.

 

[antohan]

It's very tight this one. I would probably have Ralaks front 6 with Zen's back 5. The one really considerable difference is the goalie but don't feel Zen's attacking threat is beyond Butt's abilities, which is what matters.

I'm actually wondering why I so easily went for Snow last time around as Ralaks sure could give him a game.

In a rather odd anti-tactical way, I'll go for the team best placed to improve and enrich the competition further down the line: Ralaks.

Hopefully won't come back to haunt me!

 

[Rood]

where are the managers? its close so could make all the difference

 

[antohan]

Mmmmm... every one else in the group voting Zen.

Sounds to me like they are looking forward to feast themselves on a diet of Cannavaro, Nedved, Cocu and Baraja

 

[Annihilate Now!]

Baraja Cocu and Nedved

With the other midfielders that team have... they wouldn't half score a lot of long range piledrivers.

 

[TheReligion]

I prefer Thuram at RB nor do I like Deco so deep (or he looks it anyway). Also Kaladze and Salgardo are not cut out to be attacking fullbacks.

Close call but Ralaks has a more balanced side in my opinion. He should, however, push up Gio van Bronkhorst and Ferreira as it will probably make Kewell come off with an injury.

 

[Cold_Boy]

Cant Decide!

 

[Snow]

Mmmmm... every one else in the group voting Zen.

Sounds to me like they are looking forward to feast themselves on a diet of Cannavaro, Nedved, Cocu and Baraja

I resent that statement.

 

[DanNistelrooy]

I like the Baraja - Cocu pairing and used to love Nedved. Nedved should be able to create the chances for Inzhagi and we know he doesn't miss. Cannavaro was immense at World Cup 06 which I believe was his peak so Ralaks gets this one I think. Close though

 

[antohan]

I resent that statement.

You voted very early on in fairness, and Rood wouldn't bump it with Ralaks down if he had any ill-will. Zen obviously will vote for his team.

It was a dangerous situation though: no reasons given for the votes and the non-group votes had Ralaks ahead (5-4) but the group votes were handing it to Zen (6-7).

I think votes within the group are fine, preferably with comments, as they contribute to get things moving (not a lot of people participating are there?), but would much rather see non-group votes determining the outcome.

It's interesting that when we all started off going on about how important midfield had been in the 60s one, two of the finest midfield cores are struggling. A lot of quality up for grabs in some groups.

 

[kps88]

Ralaks by a mile for me.

 

[Rood]

I wont lie - I voted tactically

But I have the teams pretty even otherwise and considered abstaining - I am disappointed that the managers dont get more involved though, I usually like to vote based on their arguments.

 

[antohan]

I wont lie - I voted tactically

But I have the teams pretty even otherwise and considered abstaining

Kudos mate. It is clearly a tight game and when undecided that kind of factor can very easily play tricks with you. It's not like you are saying the Faroe Islands will beat Spain.

 

[Brwned]

Both teams wide players and fullbacks cancel each other out on the basis they're all on the same level really (decent-ish, but the worst parts). Nedved-Inzaghi's obviously better than Elber-Totti but not by that huge an amount, likewise for Ralaks' midfield two over Zen's. Zen's got the better centre back partnership but again not by a huge amount.

To be honest, Buffon tipped it for me.

 

[Snow]

You voted very early on in fairness, and Rood wouldn't bump it with Ralaks down if he had any ill-will. Zen obviously will vote for his team.

It was a dangerous situation though: no reasons given for the votes and the non-group votes had Ralaks ahead (5-4) but the group votes were handing it to Zen (6-7).

I think votes within the group are fine, preferably with comments, as they contribute to get things moving (not a lot of people participating are there?), but would much rather see non-group votes determining the outcome.

It's interesting that when we all started off going on about how important midfield had been in the 60s one, two of the finest midfield cores are struggling. A lot of quality up for grabs in some groups.

I think Elber works better with this tactic. He always did well in Europe and I recented Bayern with him in the team. They were good. I don't rate Inzaghi that much. He's useful though.

Totti or Nedved. Both in their prime brilliant players. Not much in it there.

I rate Exterberria highly but Salihamidzic is a wing back playing to high up. Kewell or Simao. In their prime I though Kewell was better. Much more of a goal threat. Simao likes to float his crosses. I'd prefer Simao on the right and Solari on the left and Salihamidzic either on the bench or instead of Ferreira.

The two central midfielders. Cocu and Baraja are probably better in that specific location. But I don't seem to rate Baraja as some others here do. Nothing wrong with Deco and Senna either.

At the back Cannavaro is obviously the best player but Zen's pairing is better. The full backs are similar as well. Salgado has the edge for me though. His top games are better than Ferreira's. Buffon is obviously the better keeper. He's the player I would take from Zen's team.

I voted for Zen as well vs Rood.

To break it down. Defense is about the same. Attacking three goes to Zen. Midfield three to Ralaks. Buffon better but goalkeeper is not the clincher here. More of a gut feeling than anything.

I like Ralaks' team as well. There's really nothing in it just like the votes suggest. I feel it's that way for most games here. There's a lot of arguments for voting either side.

 

[antohan]

Both teams wide players and fullbacks cancel each other out on the basis they're all on the same level really (decent-ish, but the worst parts). Nedved-Inzaghi's obviously better than Elber-Totti but not by that huge an amount, likewise for Ralaks' midfield two over Zen's. Zen's got the better centre back partnership but again not by a huge amount.

To be honest, Buffon tipped it for me.

I went through the same steps and got all the way down to Buffon vs. Butt as well.

But then, Butt being worse than Buffon doesn't make him any less capable to deal with Zen's attack, does it?

On the other hand, who the goalkeeper was was irrelevant if Inzaghi had a goalscoring opportunity...

That little bit more quality and coherence in Ralaks' spine settled it for me.

 

[antohan]

I'd prefer Simao on the right and Solari on the left and Salihamidzic either on the bench or instead of Ferreira.

Fair point. I too wondered whether Solari shouldn't be on but didn't follow through on that to the extent you have. Good call.

The two central midfielders. Cocu and Baraja are probably better in that specific location. But I don't seem to rate Baraja as some others here do. Nothing wrong with Deco and Senna either.

I find Cocu-Baraja-Nedved very intuitive. I look at it and it's cohesive, it's mint. I look at Deco-Senna-Totti and frankly have no idea how it would work. I'm not saying it wouldn't, it just really stretches me too much for my liking. Great midfields usually look great straight away.

I voted for Zen as well vs Rood.

I think we have established you don't rate Rood much

I like Ralaks' team as well. There's really nothing in it just like the votes suggest. I feel it's that way for most games here. There's a lot of arguments for voting either side.

That's why it is important to chip in, the polls in themselves contribute no entertainment!

 

[Snow]

It's not that I don't rate Roods team, I just have little faith in the midfield diamond in a 4-4-2. If Mourinho were here he'd be slating you all for voting for that tactic. And as Man Utd fans you should be ashamed going that route.

What team actually uses it? I can't think of any. I've never even used it in Football Manager and never seen a team there winning anything who does. It's as simple as that.

 

[Rood]

well this is the wrong thread for this discussion but the formation I have is not really so far away from 4-3-3, although many would probably say 4-3-1-2

Chelsea have played successfully without proper wingers in recent times

 

[Ralaks]

Wow this has developed since I took a nap. I think my midfield would win this for me honestly. Baraja and Cocu would dominate his, especially with Deco playing as a central midfielder (always saw him more as an attacking midfielder). Apart from that Nedved and Inzaghi is better than what he has, which more than makes out for his central defensive pair being slightly better than mine imo.

 

[Gio]

Ralaks by a mile for me.

Having found the teams almost impossible to separate (same shape, similar quality down the wings, solid spines), it would be interesting to hear your rationale for that. I like the cohesion in ralaks' midfield and there would be scope for Van Bronckhorst to link up with Cocu and supplement the midfield.

 

[Snow]

Chelsea has always had some width in their team provided by Malouda, Robben, Mutu, Duff, Kalou, J. Cole. At least on one flank. Had you had that on the right side I wouldn't have minded at all. Same style as Real Madrid when Carlos was there. They rarely used a left winger back then. They had Makelele or Hierro or someone in the defensive midfield slot covering and Carlos got a free role to go forward as he wanted. On the right they had different players which you know about as well.

In my eyes that change of putting someone out right instead of Schneider or Baggio would make your team that much dangerous.

 

[kps88]

Having found the teams almost impossible to separate (same shape, similar quality down the wings, solid spines), it would be interesting to hear your rationale for that. I like the cohesion in ralaks' midfield and there would be scope for Van Bronckhorst to link up with Cocu and supplement the midfield.

His front 6 just look more balanced to me.

Kewell, Exterberria, Deco, Totti - not exactly hard working. In fact, a few of them were known to be notoriously lazy. Didn't see too much of Elber, could he play up top on his own?

 

[Snow]

He did so when they won the Champions League. Sometimes he played along side Jancker as well. That's my memory of Bayern in the CL.

 

[Red-Indian]

His front 6 just look more balanced to me.

Kewell, Exterberria, Deco, Totti - not exactly hard working. In fact, a few of them were known to be notoriously lazy. Didn't see too much of Elber, could he play up top on his own?

That stood out for me as well. Senna has a huge amount of work to do.

 

[Brwned]

Deco lazy?! He covered plenty of ground and wasn't afraid to throw a tackle in. There's a reason he got 42 yellows in just 4 seasons at Barca. He'd still slot right into this hard-working Barca midfield.

 

[Danny1982]

Very close, but the game ended 1-0 for Ralaks (a beauty from van Bronckhorst).

 

[Zen]

Simaos the laziest of the bunch on show, Deco was a work horse.

 

[antohan]

Looks like Brwned forgot to set the clock, or it is not 24hs.

For the record, Ralaks is 14-10 up now.