Bergkamp is overrated.

[Chrisjn]

After seeing Bergkamp above some of the best players of all time that '25 best' thread I felt I had had enough.

Bergkamp for me is a player who many look back at with nostalgia, more of a **** hero than a true great. He had fabulous technique and composure and is always remembered for "that" goal.

However, correct me if I'm wrong, whilst always being a threatening player who you had to keep and eye on, he would also have games where he wasn't as involved. I also seem to remember him not even being a garunteed starter for periods of his time at Arsenal.

**** hero, inducing PL nostalgia. A bit over-hyped? I think so.

Anyone agree?

 

[Cold_Boy]

I agree.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Arsenal's Cantona

 

[Chrisjn]

In that top 25 footballers thread he is rated above the following:

Bobby Charlton
Van Basten
Garincha
Zico
Mathaus


I often see him absolutely peppering threads and convos on the top 3 PL players ever, to which he is not even close. Pardon to any Arsenal fans, whilst he was a fantastic player, he is not up there with the best.

Arsenal's Cantona

Not a bad shout. Great player, but not in the tier some claim. A bit like Zola maybe.

 

[Cold_Boy]

In that top 25 footballers thread he is rated above the following:

Bobby Charlton
Van Basten
Garincha
Zico
Mathaus


I often see him absolutely peppering threads and convos on the top 3 PL players ever, to which he is not even close. Pardon to any Arsenal fans, whilst he was a fantastic player, he is not up there with the best.

The reason for that is because people didnt vote for players they have not seen much of.

 

[I_live_cement]

In that top 25 footballers thread he is rated above the following:

Bobby Charlton
Van Basten
Garincha
Zico
Mathaus

Madness.

 

[Cheesy]

In that top 25 footballers thread he is rated above the following:

Bobby Charlton
Van Basten
Garincha
Zico
Mathaus


I often see him absolutely peppering threads and convos on the top 3 PL players ever, to which he is not even close. Pardon to any Arsenal fans, whilst he was a fantastic player, he is not up there with the best.



Not a bad shout. Great player, but not in the tier some claim. A bit like Zola maybe.

He's ahead of them because so many only base their lists on players they have seen. Gerd Muller is probably one of the best strikers of all-time but only got one nomination because people are wary of going for those they haven't seen.

 

[Chrisjn]

The reason for that is because people didnt vote for players they have not seen much of.

Fair enough, but It's food for thought, and I could think of loads of players in our life time not on that list that are better than him.

Weah, Stoichkov, Batistuta, Romario, Cafu, Maldini... The list goes on and on.

I think his name just gets thrown around a bit. And regardless of your age, he shouldn't be seen on a 25 best players OF ALL TIME list.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Which "that goal" are we talking about here?

 

[Chrisjn]

Which "that goal" are we talking about here?

The one where he flicked it round the defender then slotted past the keeper. Might have been against Newcastle. Possibly the most overhyped goal of all time.

 

[Lynk]

Luis Ronaldo is overrated. Wonderful yes, but he's not better than most of those in the top 10.

 

[Jiggs'Hamstring]

He has three 'that goal's

 

[Lynk]

L. Ronaldo higher than Pele. OH HO HO ! The caf!

 

[Chrisjn]

Luis Ronaldo is overrated. Wonderful yes, but he's not better than most of those in the top 10.

Ronaldo de Lima? Fat Ronadlo? He's my favorite player I've ever seen. I don't think he's overated. I preferred him to the current Ronaldo, he was, as he is dubbed, a phenomenon.

Totally different league to Bergkamp for example.




However, I haven't seen where he is rated in that list so can't really argue with you there.

Try and keep the thread on topic though guys, can discuss other players in the other thread.

 

[Lynk]

He was wonderful, but people are overrating him because of their childhood memories. He is not the 3rd best player ever. No chance.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Can anybody confirm Ronaldo's performance against us at Old Trafford was really that good? Can't really remember it aside from the goals. Or was it the applause he got that made it better over time?

 

[Lynk]

Can anybody confirm Ronaldo's performance against us at Old Trafford was really that good? Can't really remember it aside from the goals. Or was it the applause he got that made it better over time?

From what I remember, it was clinical as hell. He took every chance he got, it wasn't like he was peppering us with shots all game.

 

[Chrisjn]

Can anybody confirm Ronaldo's performance against us at Old Trafford was really that good? Can't really remember it aside from the goals. Or was it the applause he got that made it better over time?

By that stage he was just a beast, the whole world ha been talking about him and watching him shred teams for fun. He was one of them players who you shit yourself when ever he received the ball, ran through defences for fun and clinical as hell. Maybe the ovation was not just for the goals but also just a tip of the cap to his brilliance in general.

 

[simonhch]

It's funny because my feeling was that if Bergkamp was over rated on English shores, he was certainly under rated overseas.

He was an absolutely magical player. One of my favourite of all time, despite playing for a rival. Johan Cryuff, when asked who was the best dutch player of all time, said that on technique alone 'Dennis Bergkamp'.

I understand the OP's point. And when you look at those 'greatest' ever lists, you realize that most of it is very subjective.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

The "top 25" thread is a bit of a joke. People shouldn't be including names of players they've never seen and if the do that, it renders the thread pointless because most of the people here wouldn't have seen players who played 20 years (and beyond) back. It's a fun exercise but to actually add peoples choices up points towards feck all really.

Bergkamp may still be overrated but the top 25 thread isn't really the best indicator of anything.

 

[Chrisjn]

It's funny because my feeling was that if Bergkamp was over rated on English shores, he was certainly under rated overseas.

He was an absolutely magical player. One of my favourite of all time, despite playing for a rival. Johan Cryuff, when asked who was the best dutch player of all time, said that on technique alone 'Dennis Bergkamp'.

I understand the OP's point. And when you look at those 'greatest' ever lists, you realize that most of it is very subjective.

On technique alone? That's like saying on 'best saves' alone, Peter Schmeichal is the best player ever. Van nistlrerooy for example was a much more prolific player than Bergkamp, played at a similar time, is Dutch, yet gets nowhere near the credit Bergkamp does. Bergkamp pulled off the magical at times yes, but you can't rate a player on the whole because of moments that he didn't display week in week out, or anywhere near that.

 

[Lawman]

He was wonderful, but people are overrating him because of their childhood memories. He is not the 3rd best player ever. No chance.

Good post Lynk spot on mate.

 

[Grinner]

Bergkamp was better than Cantona.

 

[Chrisjn]

The "top 25" thread is a bit of a joke. People shouldn't be including names of players they've never seen and if the do that, it renders the thread pointless because most of the people here wouldn't have seen players who played 20 years (and beyond) back. It's a fun exercise but to actually add peoples choices up points towards feck all really.

Bergkamp may still be overrated but the top 25 thread isn't really the best indicator of anything.

The 25 player thread just got me thinking. I don't think anyone is taking it that seriously. For that matter, it would interesting to see a thread on the best players of the last 20 years. With players everyone has seen.

 

[Guy Incognito]

The one where he flicked it round the defender then slotted past the keeper. Might have been against Newcastle. Possibly the most overhyped goal of all time.

The Leicester one was probably better.

I only remember him having two 'good' seasons at Arsenal -- the ones when they won the double. Other than that, he was hardly a starter, I seem to recall Kanu and Wiltord being rotated.

 

[Chrisjn]

Bergkamp was better than Cantona.

Depends how you compare. The influence cantona brought to the team, as well as tonnes of goals and grace says that could be a lengthy debate.

I know who's team I'd rather be in.

Cantona for me though, everytime.

 

[Thisistheone]

He has three 'that goal's

Newcastle and the one against Argentina in '98. What's the other one?

 

[antohan]

Can anybody confirm Ronaldo's performance against us at Old Trafford was really that good? Can't really remember it aside from the goals. Or was it the applause he got that made it better over time?

From what I remember, it was clinical as hell. He took every chance he got, it wasn't like he was peppering us with shots all game.

Yeah, he didn't have a continuous storming game, he just got the ball a few times, glided past defenders like they weren't there and killed us off.

It was insane, Ronaldo's performance, our comeback, the entire game was a joy to watch. It was probably the one and only time when I've seen my team crash out of a competition and not caring much for it, just feeling blessed to have watched that game.

 

[antohan]

Bergkamp was better than Cantona.

I would expect you to say that, but he does rank higher than him, on RedCafe. Mind-boggling.

 

[antohan]

It's funny because my feeling was that if Bergkamp was over rated on English shores, he was certainly under rated overseas.

He didn't like planes, that's why

 

[manutddjw]

His skill and technique was world class, and when that's true people tend to overlook his overall game, which is nowhere near greatest of all time level. It's similar to how some people (myself included) viewed Berbatov during his time here. A joy to watch and one of the most skilled players we've seen here, but overall was nowhere near a United great or one of the best in the world.

 

[Snake Plissken]

not for me.

Arguably the best player thats played in the Premier league

 

[Widnes]

Bergkamp was better than Cantona.

Nah he was a good player but the king was better, in his 6 years in English football Cantona was easily the best player i'm not sure you could say the same for Bergkamp

 

[Pink Moon]

I agree. Great player but not that good.

His placing is nowhere near as embarrassing as Paul Scholes' though.

 

[Widnes]

I agree. Great player but not that good.

His placing is nowhere near as embarrassing as Paul Scholes' though.

Embarrassing because Scholes is placed to high? or not high enough?

 

[Thisistheone]

Depends how you compare. The influence cantona brought to the team, as well as tonnes of goals and grace says that could be a lengthy debate.

I know who's team I'd rather be in.

Cantona for me though, everytime.

Same here. Cantona all day long. Bergkamp does have similarities to Eric though, including being pretty fecking dirty sometimes.

 

[Grinner]

Depends how you compare. The influence cantona brought to the team, as well as tonnes of goals and grace says that could be a lengthy debate.

I know who's team I'd rather be in.

Cantona for me though, everytime.

I'm talking about a career here, not a few seasons in one team.

 

[Pink Moon]

Embarrassing because Scholes is placed to high? or not high enough?

Too high. I love the guy, he's one of my all time favourite players but he ain't the 13th best player to ever play the game.

 

[Widnes]

Too high. I love the guy, he's one of my all time favourite players but he ain't the 13th best player to ever play the game.

I would have him on a similar level to Zidane over his career, if he is in the top 13 players to ever play the game is hard to say but suppose it's what you are looking for. Personally I would say what Scholes has done over say 16 years makes him a better player than Ronaldinho for what he done over 4 years although you do have to say for them 4 years he was one of the great players so people will always judge these things differently.

 

[SteveJ]

I wonder if having Bergkamp & Cantona in the same team would be a great as I imagine...or not?