David de Gea | 2011-14 Performances

[ciderman9000000]

All this armchair retrospective criticism fails to acknowledge that De Gea had to make this decision in about 1 second. What seems obvious to some now, which actually isn't so obvious since the line was so thin between getting it exactly right and getting sent off, had to be decided before his critics could again gleefully get the words "De Gea is having a mare of a season." out of their fukking gobs.

Unfortunately that's the kind of time frame in which goalkeepers are required to make decisions on a regular basis. There can be no complaints about that.

You're being incredibly defensive here; you do realise that de Gea's most ardent critic has been banned from the caf for WUMmery? The people you're left with here, those you're repeatedly accusing of hating de Gea, are mostly those who spent a long time calling Kietotheworld a spastic for his retarded and unfair criticisms. Nevertheless, most of us aren't so stubborn as to blindly ignore a time when de Gea has indeed made a genuine mistake, a trait that cannot be associated with you it would seem.

You're coming across as being a bit paranoid.

 

[Gazza]

Was it worth the risk though? I wouldn't say so - one flicker and the referee could have just given Southampton the penalty and sent De Gea off for stopping a goal-scoring opportunity. Who knows? I would have preferred to concede that goal, than to risk playing with 10 men AND with Southampton gaining an instant penalty.

De Gea was fine.

This is my feeling too. Although it doesn't look attractive on De Gea's part - he does look like he's flounced out of it a bit meekly, can't deny that - it was probably the better outcome to going for the ball and getting it wrong. It's just hard to say whether De Gea realized this or whether he simply didn't go for it.

 

[Count Orduck]

If he was going to pussy out of the challenge he'd have been better staying on his line.

 

[Chabon]

So imo - the only time you can really send off a goalkeeper for handling the a backpass and denying a goalscoring opportunity is:

Never.

You can never send off a goalkeeper for handling the ball inside his own box, even if quite literally stops a goal from happening.

 

[Plechazunga]

It was 80% Carrick's fault but also extremely weak from De Gea.

He's got too many mistakes in him at the moment and it doesn't take an ABU to admit that. But he's 22. He won't hit his peak for another five years, probably longer. Plenty of time to iron out that stuff.

Give him a settled defence and a couple of years and he'll start looking a very good player.

 

[Gazza]

Changing focus slightly; a couple of times he seemed pissed off at his teammates for not providing more movement when he had the ball. Smalling and Vidic were rolling back passes towards him on that cabbage patch of a pitch and De Gea sometimes didn't have an option but to just focus on not fecking up the clearance. When we don't use wingers we have no one to spray long balls to and we ended up just giving Southampton the ball back constantly. However, it did reinforce that De Gea *usually* makes clean contact with his kicking and on a pitch like ours that could be important.

 

[Sassy Colin]

Anyone would think that no other goalkeeper in the Premier League has ever made a mistake.

Why do they splash De Gea all over the back pages all the time when they don't for other 'high profile' keepers? (Hart, Reina, the Arse guy, Cech, Loris, etc)

 

[Adebesi]

Because we are United and so we are more newsworthy than others. The most supported, reviled, feared and respected club in the land. When you see double standards relating to the media coverage of Manchester United dont be surprised or offended by it. Its a compliment.

 

[Isotope]

Just like every car accident, there's always "you could've done better to avoid it" element; but the fault is always on the party that cause it or not following the traffic rule. Carrick is the responsible party here; so the blame 'game' should've stopped at him.

 

[Escobar]

When was the last time a goalkeeper was under the microscope after every single game? There is not many other goalkeeper who's not doing the same mistakes week in week out yet here, it always gets highlighted.

Yes he's not perfect, but so is none of our young players but that is the way we do it. I personally like DDG and he's not doing half as bad as others say. He saved our asses plenty of times, esp. last season.

 

[Ruud10]

Unfortunately that's the kind of time frame in which goalkeepers are required to make decisions on a regular basis. There can be no complaints about that.

You're being incredibly defensive here; you do realise that de Gea's most ardent critic has been banned from the caf for WUMmery? The people you're left with here, those you're repeatedly accusing of hating de Gea, are mostly those who spent a long time calling Kietotheworld a spastic for his retarded and unfair criticisms. Nevertheless, most of us aren't so stubborn as to blindly ignore a time when de Gea has indeed made a genuine mistake, a trait that cannot be associated with you it would seem.

You're coming across as being a bit paranoid.

We're not talking about a ball slipping through a keeper's hands or between his legs. Or a short throw that goes right back to the forward who's then free on goal. Or being caught off his line and being beaten by a shot from the center circle. Or muffing a cross. Or trying to dribble the ball past a forward and getting stripped. Or handing the ball outside the box. Or running wide of the box for the clearance and leaving your goal unprotected. Those are mistakes.

We're talking about a play in which De Gea was put in an impossible position, right? Right.

THE lesson to be learned is that you don't lob a back pass to your keeper when a forward is rushing the keeper.

The only serious criticism of De Gea on the play is he didn't have his arms in the air at the moment in time he was beaten on the ground, which is a dispute over aesthetics, not substance. I get that. It looks ugly, which leads to criticisms that De Gea "pranced" and "twirled", but such words come across as frivolous rather than serious. I can only imagine the conversation between Fergie and De Gea: "David, you and not to prance and twirl in a 1v1 situation when you've been given a shitty backpass. Got it? Got it, boss, no more prancing and twirling."

I don't think so.

The other options, which are not serious options, are to accept the red card or give up the indirect free kick, which in that particular situation are not viable options. No manager would ever admonish his keeper to take the red card in the second minute against Southampton.

Being beaten, due to a very nifty play by Rodriguez to bring the ball down rather than go with the expected lob (the ball was somewhere between knee and hip high) De Gea made the right decision, in a split second, not to bundle forward and not get sent off.

Disagreement, that De Gea should have risked getting sent off, is fair, but. But i can guarantee you Fergie would never, ever want to see hs keeper get sent off in the second minute against any opponent, even Barcelona. If you're in stoppage time trying to save a lead, then take the forward down. But not in the second minute. No way.

 

[ciderman9000000]

We're talking about a play in which De Gea was put in an impossible position, right? Right.

Wrong.

The ball was there to be won; had he not chickened out of the challenge he'd have won it rather easily. The chances of giving away a penalty were minimal.

That isn't an impossible position.

I can only imagine the conversation between Fergie and De Gea: "David, you and not to prance and twirl in a 1v1 situation when you've been given a shitty backpass. Got it? Got it, boss, no more prancing and twirling."

I don't think so.

No, "David, win the fecking ball next time, make every fecking ball your own, grow some fecking bollocks and take command of your area!" would have been something like what he'd have said to de Gea after the game.

 

[Shark]

Wrong.

The ball was there to be won; had he not chickened out of the challenge he'd have won it rather easily. The chances of giving away a penalty were minimal.

That isn't an impossible position.



No, something like, "David, win the fecking ball next time, make every fecking ball your own, grow some fecking bollocks!" would have been what he'd have said to de Gea after the game.

I don't even think it had got anything to do with 'chickening out'.

He looked to me he was caught by surprise with a wayward backpass and hesitated to come off his line. He could have been a bit more decisive in reaching the ball first but because the ball was bouncing and he could not reach it in time, he instinctively jumped a little in an attempt to distract.

 

[ciderman9000000]

I don't even think it had got anything to do with growing 'chickening out'.

He looked to me he was caught by surprise with a wayward backpass and hesitated to come off his line. He could have been a bit more decisive in reaching the ball first but because the ball was bouncing and he could not reach it in time, he instinctively jumped a little in an attempt to distract.

okay

He hesitated certainly, then elected completely the wrong course of action. A goalkeeping mistake if ever I've seen one.

 

[Ruud10]

Wrong.

The ball was there to be won; had he not chickened out of the challenge he'd have won it rather easily. The chances of giving away a penalty were minimal.

That isn't an impossible position.

I agree to disagree on this point -- the assertion that the ball was "there to be won" and that there was no risk whatsoever of being sent off or giving up an indirect kick outside the six yard box in the first two minutes of the game.

Fair enough.

I would say, however -- and I pray there is no disagreement on this point -- that keepers are not afforded the referee protection in that situation that they are afforded when attempting to collect a cross inside their own six yard box. If this point is disputed here I really will have to hunt down that photo of Picard.

 

[Shark]

okay

He hesitated certainly, then elected completely the wrong course of action. A goalkeeping mistake if ever I've seen one.

An excellent ball from Carrick to Rodriguez if I've ever seen one.

 

[ciderman9000000]

I agree to disagree on this point -- the assertion that the ball was "there to be won" and that there was no risk whatsoever of being sent off or giving up an indirect kick outside the six yard box in the first two minutes of the game.

Fair enough.

I would say, however -- and I pray there is no disagreement on this point -- that keepers are not afforded the referee protection in that situation that they are afforded when attempting to collect a cross inside their own six yard box. If this point is disputed here I really will have to hunt down that photo of Picard.

Yeah, we might as well leave it at that, since I've never asserted the above at all and you seem to be arguing against your own imagination.

Shut up about that fecking picture of Picard.

 

[ciderman9000000]

An excellent ball from Carrick to Rodriguez if I've ever seen one.

Agreed.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Media can say what they want about him, but as long as we don't turn against him - which is something I most certainly won't do - then it's all good.

 

[SharkyMcShark]

okay

He hesitated certainly, then elected completely the wrong course of action. A goalkeeping mistake if ever I've seen one.

I thought he jumped to block a potential chipped effort.

Which makes only slightly more sense than to distract

 

[Isotope]

The things like: could've punch it harder, could've deflected the shot harder or on different area, or could've more imposing and take more risk are all minor things that can be iron out easily through experience.

But saving shots like that deflected one against Spurs, that freekick against Southampton, or even better one Mata-Chelsea enough to suggest we have a potentially best GK in the world. You just can tell when you see one.

The whole DDG thing is like criticizing Wilshere because he's a whiny bitch and doesn't score where he 'could've done better'.

 

[JakeC]

I thought he jumped to block a potential chipped effort.

Which makes only slightly more sense than to distract

He made a judgement call, he didn't think he'd make it in time, so he tried to make himself as big as possible, he showed himself a bit early if anything, and was left for dead.

Carrick was at fault. It was an awful back pass.

 

[Steven Seagull]

I thought he jumped to block a potential chipped effort.

Which makes only slightly more sense than to distract

That's what I thought. At no point does it look like he really thinks he can get to the ball first so he tries to close the angle and stop a shot. Replays suggest he could've got there though if he really wanted to

 

[Plechazunga]

Just like every car accident, there's always "you could've done better to avoid it" element; but the fault is always on the party that cause it or not following the traffic rule. Carrick is the responsible party here; so the blame 'game' should've stopped at him.

This is kind of like a car was bearing down on a little kid, and the lollipop lady ran over but when she got to the kid she just kind of hopped, feyly and irrelevantly, and then watched him get mown down.

So yeah, the driver's fault, but the lollipop lady didn't look great either.

 

[Utd heap]

This is kind of like a car was bearing down on a little kid, and the lollipop lady ran over but when she got to the kid she just kind of hopped, feyly and irrelevantly, and then watched him get mown down.

So yeah, the driver's fault, but the lollipop lady didn't look great either.

I like this analogy and think i agree with it.

 

[Verminator]

We are still debating this, days after the event, having seen multiple angles!

He had a second to react, in the 2nd minute, in front of 70,000 people, when caught by surprise, due to a Carrick brain fart.

Should he be getting criticised, or even questioned on his reaction?

 

[Brophs]

We are still debating this, days after the event, having seen multiple angles!

He had a second to react, in the 2nd minute, in front of 70,000 people, when caught by surprise, due to a Carrick brain fart.

Should he be getting criticised, or even questioned on his reaction?

Yes.

It's what he does. Judging him by our standards is apples and oranges.

 

[Plechazunga]

I don't know why anyone ever criticised Taibi. All his errors were committed in front of literally thousands of people, and some were early in the game.

 

[Verminator]

Yes.

It's what he does. Judging him by our standards is apples and oranges.

Our best ever.
Check 30secs esp.

 

[adexkola]

you do realise that de Gea's most ardent critic has been banned from the caf for WUMmery?

He has? Shame

 

[NM]

We are still debating this, days after the event, having seen multiple angles!

He had a second to react, in the 2nd minute, in front of 70,000 people, when caught by surprise, due to a Carrick brain fart.

Should he be getting criticised, or even questioned on his reaction?

I don't know why anyone ever criticised Taibi. All his errors were committed in front of literally thousands of people, and some were early in the game.

 

[Brophs]

Our best ever.
Check 30secs esp.

Sorry, what point are you making?

People make mistakes. We can all agree on that. Why does the fact Peter Schmeichel made them mean we can't question whether de Gea made one?

 

[Rossa]

You are all going overboard with DDG's mistake here. If that was on the middle of the pitch and Carrick or Cleverley had done the same thing, none of you would have said anything. It was a piss poor back pass from Carrick, who admitted it was his fault in the dressing room. Why bother discussing it any further? It wasn't great play by DDG, but you see outfield players do that on a regular basis, so why the hell would you blame a goalie for reacting a bit slow to the most ridiculous backpass in recent time?

 

[Verminator]

Sorry, what point are you making?

People make mistakes. We can all agree on that. Why does the fact Peter Schmeichel made them mean we can't question whether de Gea made one?

No. Just comparing Oranges with Oranges.

 

[Platato]

Does the Caf usually talk about goalkeepers like this? Just curious.

 

[100]

It's OK to admit he made errors, it's nothing abnormal. He just turned 22, everyone should be expecting mistakes at his age. For me the question isn't whether or not he'll be good enough in the future it's more whether or not we can cope with the errors until he removes them from his game, I think his shot stopping is great so we'll be fine.

 

[Isotope]

This is kind of like a car was bearing down on a little kid, and the lollipop lady ran over but when she got to the kid she just kind of hopped, feyly and irrelevantly, and then watched him get mown down.

So yeah, the driver's fault, but the lollipop lady didn't look great either.

Unless the lollipop lady did a quick risk calculation, and decided that probability of her die helping him was too high, and the kid didn't worth her own (as she still has kids to take care off).

The lady didn't look great at first glance, but took a better option on the grand scheme.

 

[roseguy64]

Ian Darke and redhaman used to be a decent pair but they've clearly gone off the boil with that piece of commentary. Nani's future in severe doubt because of Zaha? Jaysus!

Aye. They're generally decent and give credit where it's due but that game was awful from them.

 

[Ruud10]

Yeah, we might as well leave it at that, since I've never asserted the above at all and you seem to be arguing against your own imagination.

The fundamental objection to De Gea's alleged "mistake" appears to be that "The ball was there to be won." and therefore De Gea should have won it. No other argument, that he "pranced and twirled", comes close to being rational, let alone compelling.

This was no midfield 50/50 ball or match-saving situation. De Gea had in fact been compromised by a lobbed back pass, for which using his hands in any way (a good time to point out that even punching the ball away would constitute an illegal use of the hands), which would have resulted in an indirect free kick well inside the penalty box. Yes, De Gea could have challenged for the ball but he truly was at risk of getting the man and getting a piece of the ball. The moment De Gea makes contact with the man and not the ball, in that situation, he's sent off. That would have been very bad, which you seem to dismiss as something we could have handled with ******.

Yes, it's possible that De Gea could have gotten the ball but the ball was in the air -- surely we agree on this -- De Gea would have had to go in with his foot high to win the ball. Miss the ball and get the man and you're sent off. You can still get the ball but if you get the man in the wrong way you're still at extreme risk of getting sent off.

The risk of getting sent off, or even coughing up a free kick -- if any keeper on the planet had the presence of mind in a split second to go through that analysis that quickly -- was not worth it. Better to stay on the pitch than to risk not staying on the pitch. THAT is the point. And De Gea made the right call in not fukking things up even worse. This can't be that hard to comprehend.

Didn't it work out for the best, anyway? We gave up the goal, De Gea stays on and we kept all 11 men on the pitch for the remaining 88 minutes (a relevant point, which you dismiss, cider) to claim the victory...and we win the game. What exactly is there to bitch and moan about when De Gea instantly, and rightly, decides to NOT make a bad situation worse by taking an unnecessary risk?

Shut up about that fecking picture of Picard.

Fine, I'm sure there's one of Janeway.

 

[Plechazunga]

Not convinced by the idea that he pulled out of the challenge because he calculated that the chances of being sent off, or even giving away a free-kick, outweighed the chance of saving it.

I think he just spazzed his attempt to narrow the angle a bit.

As 100 said, it's fine. He's getting a bit too much wrong at the moment but he's learning all the time, and making up for it with some top saves.