I did say several times, that Sammer's main task is to help containing Zidane?
Redcafe Sheep Draft - Balu vs Polaroid
- Thread starter Moby
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yes, how football works is that my other players say Redondo will be exploiting the space and carving openings when yours are preoccupied with Zidane
If Bale beats Reuter, it will be Kohler on Bale?
I rate Brian, but his fullback is not going to help him at all so it's all down to Zidane and Redondo and what service he gets.
I can see that hardworking German midfield jointly limiting Redondo as much as possible, but not both, which is why Sammer on Zidane is critical.
I frankly don't see the point of him being a sweeper to cover two excellent CBs who in turn have to deal with one striker and covering needs of two very strong fullbacks. All them covering needs have a root cause, and it's the two men in the midfield. Sort it out or get fecked really.
I can see that hardworking German midfield jointly limiting Redondo as much as possible, but not both, which is why Sammer on Zidane is critical.
I frankly don't see the point of him being a sweeper to cover two excellent CBs who in turn have to deal with one striker and covering needs of two very strong fullbacks. All them covering needs have a root cause, and it's the two men in the midfield. Sort it out or get fecked really.
Help contain and man-marking him are two entirely different things.
Probably difficult to argue on this board, but he wasn't that impressive against Bayern. Our line-up in the home win in the semifinal for example:Well we would need to disagree there. All your players are good on the ball - and it would sound terribly cliched but I need to give credit where it's due - Zizou and Redondo would dominate the strongest of midfields in possession, and I don't doubt that for a second. Again, that sounds terribly boring because it looks like I am looking at big names but more than the names it is the specific ability of both of them to control the game like very, very few others. Redondo all by himself absolutely schooled Keane and Scholes - a treble winning midfield duo - in that 2000 CL game. I won't pretend I'm not getting a bit romantic here but it's easy to do so with a player like Redondo and that is what makes him so great, that he not only has the ability to shield the defense brilliantly but also the ability to dictate everything that goes on in the game.
If it wasn't for Passarella and his retarded strict rules that he would have probably been a World Cup hero as well, and deserved at least one shot to avenge the horrible outing against Romania in 94. Argentina and the bullshit manager is a sad story. From that nonsense by Passarella to Pekerman's genius idea of subbing Riquelme against you guys to the greatest of them all, Maradona not even taking Cambiasso and Pupi!
Anyway, I do think deciding the share of possession in this game is sort of out of your hands. You can harry those two all you want, but there's a reason why Sir Alex was fascinated by "El Principe" and was forced to wonder if he had magnet in his boots...
Yeah, we lost the return leg and narrowly went out on aggregate, but we beat that Real team with Redondo 3 out of 4 times that season and it was damn close in the end. Of course, you can say now, that those weren't his best games and discount the impressive defensive jobs the players did against him like you did with Zidane in the Dortmund - Juve final earlier
.Yes, now add Zidane to Redondo and shut out both of them in their prime
Fair enough, but I don't see it as necessary to have Sammer on him while I'm in possession to keep Zidane from receiving the ball. That's almost impossible anyway and can leave me vulnerable at the back, if he gets past him. It's much more effective to have Sammer shielding the defense and pick up Zidane when he gets into the dangerous area.
In which case you are happy to take on the pressure, which is fair enough, but then I'd agree you would have been better off with Frings in midfield and playing a more counterattacking style.
Yeah all players have those games, that's not what I take into consideration. That for me isn't different from a Chelsea fan coming a saying Messi couldn't score against them so putting out the same defense will do the job again. Tons of things change from game to game, nevermind a fantasy one. Redondo also struggled against Hagi in 94 WC, but so has every player in some of the important games they have played. In the end you look at their career and how they performed most times, which is what matters. Anyone can find games where your players failed as well, makes no sense to bring them out. Rather you take the best performances of your players, Pol takes the best of his and then we compare, at least that's how I would.Probably difficult to argue on this board, but he wasn't that impressive against Bayern. Our line-up in the home win in the semifinal for example:
Yeah, we lost the return leg and narrowly went out on aggregate, but we beat that Real team with Redondo 3 out of 4 times that season and it was damn close in the end. Of course, you can say now, that those weren't his best games and discount the impressive defensive jobs the players did against him like you did with Zidane in the Dortmund - Juve final earlier
As for Zizou, you have to agree that if Paul Lambert contained Zizou, then obviously he wasn't at his best. It's obvious to me and I have seen that game, and he wasn't.
Well, I have significantly better players in basically every position. There's not a single player in this team who would get into my team, if he isn't already playing, so I think I'm goodYes, now add Zidane to Redondo and shut out both of them in their prime
./edit:
Ffs, I'm of course talking about the players in that Bayern side that played brilliantly against Real time and time again.
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Defence and Midfield are owned by Balu's, but Polaroid's has better attack. Just based on personal interpretation, I just think Balu's is more cohesive. Maybe because the romanticism in me always rate team with more 'past' players, when everything is perhaps equal.
That's besides the point. Your dismissing the reasons why they struggled and they didn't struggle once or twice, they struggled quite often against these type of teams.
None of them are German?Well, I have significantly better players in basically every position. There's not a single player in this team who would get into my team, if he isn't already playing, so I think I'm good
It's still not equal to the rest of the career, is it? I don't think it should be considered and I wouldn't consider it, and that's why bringing real evidence is really the border beyond which it becomes a farce. Redondo there was in a completely different situation than here and I won't even begin to look for comparisons. He could be worse or better than he was, but you cannot take a game or a small set of games as a reference. I mean, of course you can say that it was a fair way to contain him but what you shouldn't do is assume that the result would be the same.
Yes, now add Zidane to Redondo and shut out both of them in their prime
Not about better players, but the right players in the right set-up. Like what Aldo and Anto said about Frings, he may not be as good a footballer as Kroos but he would be better against Zizou AND Redondo for the game your team needs to playWell, I have significantly better players in basically every position. There's not a single player in this team who would get into my team, if he isn't already playing, so I think I'm good
So you rate Effenberg over Redondo individually? That pretty much explains the difference of our opinion so far because I rate Redondo among the very best CMs of all time.Well, I have significantly better players in basically every position. There's not a single player in this team who would get into my team, if he isn't already playing, so I think I'm good
@Balu for the 3rd time
Honestly, I don't see the point why you're trying to single out events all the time. Of course the centerback covers. But you play Bale here on the left wing, where he heavily relied on pace, on getting past fullbacks who commited forward to much and cross in. He's not an outstanding dribbler and you're not playing him inverse like he plays now for Real and Reuter can cover his pace down the line. I would be much much worried about Bale on the right.
Are you kidding me? I was talking about that Bayern team
. Ffs, of course several of those Real players would get into my team, Carlos vs Ziege as an pretty obvous example.Are you kidding me? I was talking about that Bayern team
I assumed you were talking about Pol's team in fact.In fairness Aldo, that Bayern side was incredibly hard to break down and succeeded in grinding it out more foten than not. It has been improved with Sammer-Kohler-Reuter and Muller-Klinsmann. I have a hard time seeing them get dominated or beaten as convincingly as it's being made out to be the case.
Yup, no worries about Bale on the left getting past the right back and scoring
Honestly, I don't see the point why you're trying to single out events all the time. Of course the centerback covers. But you play Bale here on the left wing, where he heavily relied on pace, on getting past fullbacks who commited forward to much and cross in. He's not an outstanding dribbler and you're not playing him inverse like he plays now for Real and Reuter can cover his pace down the line. I would be much much worried about Bale on the right.
So you need Kohler to cover, leaving Eto'o vs Buchwald, Zidane vs Sammer, Laudrup vs Ziege
Holy crap, that's even worth. You do realise that Zidane is the standout player on the pitch, right?
Same here, that's why I said they weren't German!
Definitely, I agreed to it as well. Ffs I am a massive Sammer lover, I'd never put him down like that.
I don't see much problem in Pol dominating the midfield with those two (and Petit, who was pretty fecking neat even if not at the level of all others here). I precisely wrote that Balu will hold him out but over 90 minutes I can see them getting the ball around neatly enough 2-3 times out of which Eto'o would surely get one in the back of the net. That should show how much I admire his defense and overall setup because Pol's midfield in a regular game would easily carve open the opposition multiple times.
You can't see Klinsmann scoring as well? I can.
I ignored that comment for a reason, because I knew that you would come up with that video. Well, if Reuter was as slow and stupid as Maicon in those two games, I would care. I don't. Again, if Reuter, Kohler with Müller tracking Alaba and Sammer around to put out a fire is the reason I loose the game against Bale, so be it.Yup, no worries about Bale on the left getting past the right back and scoring
So you need Kohler to cover, leaving Eto'o vs Buchwald, Zidane vs Sammer, Laudrup vs Ziege
I am loving this thread. A lot of confusion but the result has been genuinely good discussions.
At the expense of allowing Pol's wide players more room, in which case I take back what I said and Pol will score more. If he wants to keep Pol's team out he would need his fullbacks to be defense first attack second which sorta screws up the transition.
No it would be because Kohler covering leaves Eto'o vs Buchwald, Zidane vs Sammer and Laudrup vs Ziege, not to mention Redondo, that could lose you the game.
I think this is a point people have kind of ignored. Klinsmann absolutely relished the challenge of being the lone striker and he had the individual quality needed to score against top centre back pairings from there.
I can see the Zidane/Redondo axis create a goal in this game but at the same time Hummels and Ferdinand lacks the natural stopper that you'd ideally desire against Klinsmann. I can see Klinsmann abusing Hummels in this game who quite clearly is some levels below the rest of the CB's on the pitch.
I can't see either team keeping a clean sheet.
I find Balu team solid and Pol team inspirational
Does no one care about the huge elephant in Pol's defense? Someone mentioned it earlier, but Hummels + Ferdinand really is the wrong pairing. Both had their bad ass Serb next to them for a reason? And does no one see Alaba getting caught out in defense time and time again, if he's attacking so much? Kroos sending Müller in behind Alaba is a huge problem, way bigger than anything I have in my team. Müller is actually really quick and a brilliant counterattacking player. He basically won the golden boot at the worldcup by making those runs despite tracking his fullbacks before.
Sure, I have a bunch of hardworking Germans here that wouldn't give a feck and just stand around watching
. Anyway, I'm done with this type of discussion, I wanted to write about some of my players earlier and it seems like you're seriously underrating Buchwald here, who could easily keep Eto'o quiet on his own, let alone with all the help he has, I'll start with him.I keep forgetting you are Balu's AM, I had to check the first page again
You make Hummels sound like a soft wussy
he has come up against the world's top forwards and he has shown why he is regarded as among the world's bestSo when he gets the ball Reuter, Ziege, Effenberg, Muller and Scholl just punt it to Klinsmann because they are too busy worried about the defending? Doesn't sound very likely TBH.
Often the case with them boring Krauts. Never worked for them
Neither would my players be standing watching tooSure, I have a bunch of hardworking Germans here that wouldn't give a feck and just stand around watching
It is quite clear
Eto'o vs Buchwald, Zidane vs Sammer and Laudrup vs Ziege
Is Eto'o not rated on here? Laudrup?
Sit through these 2 videos and tell me again that Eto'o can be easily kept quiet, especially with Zidane, Redondo, Laudrup, Bale, Petit supplying him
Or ask Rio and Vidic, all it takes is one split second and he will bury the chance as he did to us in Rome