Manager Draft Final - Harms VS Edgar

Who would win based on peak under the managers?


  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .
:(

The thing is you are very predictable, particularly in terms of priorities (certainly not which players you will pick). You always prioritise the attack and big defenders, leaving the question of width and creativity in central midfield for later, which makes you vulnerable to surgical tactical picks in this sort of limited pool setup. Particularly with a manager like Capello, the problem was never going to be finding good defenders or DMs, or even forwards, the problem was creativity and width.

Here's how it happened so you can see where it all went wrong for future reference.

02. AngeloHenriquez/Stobzilla:- Fabio Capello- 1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit 3. Van Basten 4. Hierro 5. Totti 6. Samuel 7. Emerson 8. Boban 9. Tassotti 10. Candela 11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah.

12. Edgar Allan Pillow:-
Fabio Capello - 1. P. Maldini 2. Nedved 3. Redondo 4. Desailly 5. Savićević 6. Costacurta 7. Albertini 8. Donadoni 9. Panucci 10. Suker 11. Casillas 12. Montero.

1. P. Maldini
1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit
2. Nedved 3. Redondo
3. Van Basten 4. Hierro - First slip, you don't need Hierro when you have Baresi. Desailly would be a better defensive partner and holding midfielder.
4. Desailly 5. Savićević - EAP wanted Billy and planned to get Savicevic later, but I thought he was a Stob pick if I ever saw one and completed his midfield while having the sort of creativity and wide played you needed to be starved of
5. Totti 6. Samuel - I truly have no idea what you were thinking. You already had Marco-Gullit, Baresi and Hierro. I think EAP had an orgasm.
6. Costacurta 7. Albertini - At this point EAP has his shape and plan sorted. Time to push you into the hole you dug taking the only proper creative CM left.
7. Emerson 8. Boban - You are now in reaction mode, with EAP dictating who you pick and these being poor-man's substitutes of those he takes away.
8. Donadoni 9. Panucci - You still hadn't sorted width, looked like a back five, so take away Panucci and leave you with Tassotti and no RW to make up for it
9. Tassotti 10. Candela - Presto, Baresi, Gullit and van Basten nicely lined up :)
10. Suker 11. Casillas - EAP paying the price for screwing with you, Buffon gone :(
11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah
12. Montero - Insurance in case Desailly was needed in midfield instead of Albertini

The draft side is where the fun is, no doubt :D
It's not just that anyone who could compete for Edgar's players went out in first round - rinus , del bos que , van gaal
 
It's not just that anyone who could compete for Edgar's players went out in first round - rinus , del bos que , van gaal

That was very lucky, particularly you (MvB-Gullit), less so van Gaal (already had Rijkaard and Desailly was absolutely fine). Not sure why del Bosque. A more voter-friendly modern side was bound to knock you out sooner or later though.

He had a strong enough side to get by without the Dutch guys in the first couple of rounds bar MvB so the risk primarily was that you went through and picked Marco straight off the bat. That would have been mostly to screw him as, frankly, you needed Gullit and Rijkaard (if LvG lost) more than Marco.

It was really a matter of time before he got them but he was indeed quite lucky to just pick them up straight away in order of priority safe in the knowledge the others would still be knocking around in the next round.
 
My side was impossible from the start and more of a joke, it would have looked ridiculous in a final. Can't even field a competent first eleven as there are no CB/DM/CM options at all but I did have Romario, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu, Carlos for a very entertaining 2nd round if the other manager somehow fecked up massively tactically or didn't have time to continue.

Wouldn't have been very good anyhow but at least they'd play some of the most entertaining football in a draft! Rivaldo was more of a right midfielder at the time(98 ish), and Ronaldinho was just entering the scene.
 


What I wanted to play eventually, dunno how well it would have worked though.Maybe replace pirlo with nedved.

No chance, EAP had him. That was an inspired early pick actually, Nedved was the one that would keep him in it while waiting for Gullit, so much so that by the final he seemed to be regarded as the most important player on the pitch!
 
My side was impossible from the start and more of a joke, it would have looked ridiculous in a final. Can't even field a competent first eleven as there are no CB/DM/CM options at all but I did have Romario, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo, Ronaldo, Cafu, Carlos for a very entertaining 2nd round if the other manager somehow fecked up massively tactically or didn't have time to continue.

Wouldn't have been very good anyhow but at least they'd play some of the most entertaining football in a draft! Rivaldo was more of a right midfielder at the time(98 ish), and Ronaldinho was just entering the scene.

It was 1998-2000, which took you pretty close if not bang on everyone's peak. It was a shame you didn't go through as it was a fantastic sleeper cell team with everyone instantly turning from youths/has beens to their peaks :eek:
 
No chance, EAP had him. That was an inspired early pick actually, Nedved was the one that would keep him in it while waiting for Gullit, so much so that by the final he seemed to be regarded as the most important player on the pitch!


True thats why said maybe in the unlikely event EAP lost. I really didnt plan my picks too smartly, should have taken kohler/cannavaro earlier before I started on the midfield but oh well. Still would ahve lost against tiki fecking taka.
 
True thats why said maybe in the unlikely event EAP lost. I really didnt plan my picks too smartly, should have taken kohler/cannavaro earlier before I started on the midfield but oh well. Still would ahve lost against tiki fecking taka.

Yeah, tiki-taka was perfect kryptonite for any of the more stylish Italian sides. Shame, I liked how your team could have evolved into a great Lippi side, but it was never going to make it in this company.
 
It was 1998-2000, which took you pretty close if not bang on everyone's peak. It was a shame you didn't go through as it was a fantastic sleeper cell team with everyone instantly turning from youths/has beens to their peaks :eek:

Yeah, it would have been good for one(more) laugh to be fair! Like you say, all the has been/will be suddenly in their near peaks.
 
:(

The thing is you are very predictable, particularly in terms of priorities (certainly not which players you will pick). You always prioritise the attack and big defenders, leaving the question of width and creativity in central midfield for later, which makes you vulnerable to surgical tactical picks in this sort of limited pool setup. Particularly with a manager like Capello, the problem was never going to be finding good defenders or DMs, or even forwards, the problem was creativity and width.

Here's how it happened so you can see where it all went wrong for future reference.

02. AngeloHenriquez/Stobzilla:- Fabio Capello- 1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit 3. Van Basten 4. Hierro 5. Totti 6. Samuel 7. Emerson 8. Boban 9. Tassotti 10. Candela 11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah.

12. Edgar Allan Pillow:-
Fabio Capello - 1. P. Maldini 2. Nedved 3. Redondo 4. Desailly 5. Savićević 6. Costacurta 7. Albertini 8. Donadoni 9. Panucci 10. Suker 11. Casillas 12. Montero.

1. P. Maldini
1. F. Baresi 2. Gullit
2. Nedved 3. Redondo
3. Van Basten 4. Hierro - First slip, you don't need Hierro when you have Baresi. Desailly would be a better defensive partner and holding midfielder.
4. Desailly 5. Savićević - EAP wanted Billy and planned to get Savicevic later, but I thought he was a Stob pick if I ever saw one and completed his midfield while having the sort of creativity and wide played you needed to be starved of
5. Totti 6. Samuel - I truly have no idea what you were thinking. You already had Marco-Gullit, Baresi and Hierro. I think EAP had an orgasm.
6. Costacurta 7. Albertini - At this point EAP has his shape and plan sorted. Time to push you into the hole you dug taking the only proper creative CM left.
7. Emerson 8. Boban - You are now in reaction mode, with EAP dictating who you pick and these being poor-man's substitutes of those he takes away.
8. Donadoni 9. Panucci - You still hadn't sorted width, looked like a back five, so take away Panucci and leave you with Tassotti and no RW to make up for it
9. Tassotti 10. Candela - Presto, Baresi, Gullit and van Basten nicely lined up :)
10. Suker 11. Casillas - EAP paying the price for screwing with you, Buffon gone :(
11. Sebastiano Rossi 12. Weah
12. Montero - Insurance in case Desailly was needed in midfield instead of Albertini

The draft side is where the fun is, no doubt :D
Great, brutal analysis.
 
When I saw your pick, I was Vanderwho:confused: At least I now know him better. Must have been a bitch to check on his players!

:lol: I was a bit unmotivated for a serious draft and I was the draftmaster so I figured I would try to add a level of entertainment by managing one of the teams and not taking it very seriously myself. Would have been even better if someone had Rivaldo/Ronaldinho/Cafu/Carlos/Romario all for themselves and I came in and snatched them just before.

Didn't end that funny though.
 
:lol: I was a bit unmotivated for a serious draft and I was the draftmaster so I figured I would try to add a level of entertainment by managing one of the teams and not taking it very seriously myself. Would have been even better if someone had Rivaldo/Ronaldinho/Cafu/Carlos/Romario all for themselves and I came in and snatched them just before.

Didn't end that funny though.
It was a good effort to go down the Luxembergo route. Our plan A was a South American manager but nobody really stood out as genuinely competitive in the first round. Whereas there were 2/3 Europeans who were both competitive in the first round (subject to the draw against the early peakers) and with a realistic chance of winning a final following reinforcement.
 
It was a good effort to go down the Luxembergo route. Our plan A was a South American manager but nobody really stood out as genuinely competitive in the first round. Whereas there were 2/3 Europeans who were both competitive in the first round (subject to the draw against the early peakers) and with a realistic chance of winning a final following reinforcement.

You got unlucky with that first round draw. Opponent's team was final ready from get go.
 
You got unlucky with that first round draw. Opponent's team was final ready from get go.

Indeed, TRV was probably the last opponent anyone wanted. Gio would have walked most if not all other games, it already looked almost final-ready itself but came across the worst possible system riddled with proven partnerships and gameplay. Even then, I still voted for him... well, only once he brought Rui Costa on :lol: That was a cracking game, TRVs face must have been a picture when he woke up and saw a done deal turned into the oppo breathing down his neck.
 
BTW, it's been said before, but great format @Annahnomoss, it makes the drafting a bit too simplistic with the exclusive pools but it produced excellent proven and coherent teams by design, even letting relatively underrated players shine and not justifying shiny upgrades.
 
It was a good effort to go down the Luxembergo route. Our plan A was a South American manager but nobody really stood out as genuinely competitive in the first round. Whereas there were 2/3 Europeans who were both competitive in the first round (subject to the draw against the early peakers) and with a realistic chance of winning a final following reinforcement.

There were a few better options actually from there, but none that would be able to steal so many players and be so hard to research for the opponents.
 
BTW, it's been said before, but great format @Annahnomoss, it makes the drafting a bit too simplistic with the exclusive pools but it produced excellent proven and coherent teams by design, even letting relatively underrated players shine and not justifying shiny upgrades.

I really loved following it as well. It was a really brilliant draft and pretty much every match up was between two sides without too many superstar names.
 
Nah the whole point of Lothar being best b2b of all time is that he does not need to have 2 MF men alongside him to play his best game. At his absolute peak he should be able to do participate both in defensive and offensive side of things. That's what you want from your B2B. According to you he is like Yaya whose best role is in front of 2 CMs.

Aye, completely agreed. Matthaus already had three centre backs behind him, well four actually when you include Gentile, and Tardelli as a midfield partner. Quite clearly doesn't need any one else covering for him.
 
Aye, completely agreed. Matthaus already had three centre backs behind him, well four actually when you include Gentile, and Tardelli as a midfield partner. Quite clearly doesn't need any one else covering for him.

Agree, even if I am not sure I'd consider him the best B2B of all time. The competition is rough and the three in this match up are damn near equal. He's certainly on of those in the discussion but hard to pinpoint him as the one and only best ever b2b.
 
Brehme as a RWB.

I know you don't have 4 CBs but I think three of Bergomi, Scirea and Gentile/Kohler would have been enough against EAP's attack of Van Basten and Gullit. Also, Its not the peak Gullit EAP has here. He has the post injury Gullit, who while a good player wasn't the same player he was in eighties. Not to mention he and Capello didn't get along that well either. So, your three of CBs of Bergomi, Scirea and Gentile/Kohler would have been enough to deal with Van Basten and a waning Gullit, IMO.

Also, I don't agree your defence isn't as good as EAP's. All of your defenders and midfielders played their best football and had their peak under Trap. A couple of EAP's players though didn't. I know I am clutching straws here but in a close match like this, that could have been the deciding factor.

This would have been my team:-


-----------------------Batistuta-----------------------
---------Baggio----------------------------------------
-------------------------Platini------------------Boniek
----------------Tardelli-----------Matthaus-------------
Cabrini----------Kohler-------------Scirea----Bergomi---
--------------------------Zoff--------------------------

Aye, with the players he had that's what I would have done too. But ideally I would have picked Brehme and played both him and Cabrini.

I don't think there's much between those two teams though, I actually really like the lob sided version with Boniek there. But at a push I'd go with Brehme.
 
Congrats, @Edgar Allan Pillow - and well done, @harms!

Brilliant draft, @Annahnomoss - turned out better than I had thought too: I was a bit afraid it would get stale beyond the first round of matches, but it certainly didn't. It was more about teams than names - and a surprising amount of unsung heroes got to shine here. Absolutely brilliant, all things said and done.
 
Aye, completely agreed. Matthaus already had three centre backs behind him, well four actually when you include Gentile, and Tardelli as a midfield partner. Quite clearly doesn't need any one else covering for him.

Not covering for him, that's not the issue. It's aboout doing the defensive job that would be required of him as one of two midfielders with a deep-sitting backline and oceans of space in between. It needs to be done, but you just don't want him to be doing dog's work, it's a waste. Get rid of one of them unnecessary defenders and get a midfielder to do it for him, sorted.
 
So how do we proceed with this? One solution would be to have four vote options;

Edgar
Harms
Draw(Adv. Edgar)
Draw(Adv. Harms)

So if the two draws added together wins, it is a draw and it goes to penalties. But if the draw option doesn't win, we still don't lose the "regular" votes importance - and we just count them together with the team who they thought had the adv.

While I agree with those who have warned against over-complicating things, the model you propose isn't exactly rocket science. It would clearly be manageable, I think. The problem I see with this model is that it could lead to draws en masse - because those who would normally allow even a slight advantage (a 1-0 or a 4-3 scenario) to benefit either A or B, could now opt for "advantage A" or "advantage B" instead. And that wouldn't be good, would it? To my thinking either you believe the match is a draw, flat out, period - or you believe that there is a little something which separates the sides, in which case there is a winner, not a draw.

See the thing?
 
Aye, with the players he had that's what I would have done too. But ideally I would have picked Brehme and played both him and Cabrini.

I don't think there's much between those two teams though, I actually really like the lob sided version with Boniek there. But at a push I'd go with Brehme.

I take it you suggest doing that with a back three at Boniek's expense? Do yourself a favour and watch this: Traps' Juve

Every single big game they protray you see it settled via the Platini-Boniek combo. Even when it isn't shown, it was (e.g. Heysel peno was a peno on Boniek after a fabulous ball from Platini). You just don't drop Boniek when you have Platini, not for Brehme at right back, or Baggio-Batistuta, or anyone however big a name he is. Does it carry through to the popularity contest of voting? Probably not, but who gives a shit? It's one of the most brilliant and proven mutually beneficial partnerships in the history of the game.
 
Not covering for him, that's not the issue. It's aboout doing the defensive job that would be required of him as one of two midfielders with a deep-sitting backline and oceans of space in between. It needs to be done, but you just don't want him to be doing dog's work, it's a waste. Get rid of one of them unnecessary defenders and get a midfielder to do it for him, sorted.

I don't agree at all that he was restricted in the previous set up, or burdened with a big defensive job. As I said before Gentile, Scirea, Bergomi, Kohler and Tardelli were already there which is quite the array defensively. Aye it's a two man midfield, but it's a two man midfield with a five man defence which is obviously completely different, there's already lots of security there. It's also a two man midfield in which he's paired with Tardelli who was excellent defensively himself.

In a previous draft Matthaus was in a two man midfield in a 4-2-3-1 and he was also playing next to Didi. In that set up you would be quite right to say that he was overburdened defensively but I don't see that here in this set up at all.
 
I don't agree at all that he was restricted in the previous set up, or burdened with a big defensive job. As I said before Gentile, Scirea, Bergomi, Kohler and Tardelli were already there which is quite the array defensively. Aye it's a two man midfield, but it's a two man midfield with a five man defence which is obviously completely different, there's already lots of security there. It's also a two man midfield in which he's paired with Tardelli who was excellent defensively himself.

In a previous draft Matthaus was in a two man midfield in a 4-2-3-1 and he was also playing next to Didi. In that set up you would be quite right to say that he was overburdened defensively but I don't see that here in this set up at all.
That 4231 was part of a WC draft and that team went won the whole thing. It is only recently people have decided that Lothar must be played as an AM
 
That 4231 was part of a WC draft and that team went won the whole thing. It is only recently people have decided that Lothar must be played as an AM
I mentioned in that game against Annah, that he's basically playing '94 or '98 Matthäus, and definitely not the Ballon d'Or winning 1990 version. Not that anyone cared :(
 
Something like:

Müller Rummenigge
Maradona
Schuster Matthäus
Stielike
Brehme Schwarzenbeck Beckenbauer Vogts
Maier
@Joga Bonito or @Skizzo probably know better what their final line-up would have been.

1148805_FC_Bayern_Munchen.jpg



Is how I was thinking...I've always wanted Beckenbauer to play his role, rather than just a Cb..so I would have partnered Schwarzenbeck back where with him and Augenthaler. Freeing Beckenbauer to push up, and having Stielike alongside Matthaus to drop back and cover also.

Whether anyone would have liked it or not is a different idea...and it all depended on when myself of Joga went out (although we both did at the same time :lol: ) as to what players would have been available to put together.
 
What's with those ultra defensive 5 man backlines? Vogts right wingback is the same as Gentile right wingback. Have a bit of faith in your defenders ;). You really don't need Augenthaler in there.