Manager Draft Final - Harms VS Edgar

Who would win based on peak under the managers?


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Annahnomoss

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Harms - Trapattoni

What happens when an unstoppable force immovable object meets an immovable object? Probably nothing. Despite all the firepower on both sides of the pitch in Van Basten, Gullit, Baggio and Platini I fully expect this much to be decided by one or, maximum, two goals.

Edgar’s team is based on, probably, the greatest club team in history, but, as he chose Capello and not Sacchi, it is the same players, yet not on their non-arguable peak, which was a few years earlier. I just want to describe the situation – when Capello replaced Sacchi, Matthäus was the current Ballon D’Or winner and he will be a runner-up for the next one. In 1992 Van Basten won it, in 1993 it was Baggio and in 1994 Baggio was a runner-up. What am I talking about? Capello’s Milan was dominant in the league, but the best individual players from that time (who played in inferior teams) are, actually, playing against him today.

That Milan (both Sacchi’s and Capello’s) was the best side in the great Serie A of late 80’s and 90’s. The best players from all over the world played there and the games against Milan were a litmus test for them to prove their claims for a true greatness. Matthäus was the main inspiration for Inter to won the 88/89 Serie A title with a huge points gap, Baggio proved himself to be the best player in the world during their dominance, even on the bench I have Batistuta, who played for an awful Fiorentina side (8-2 defeat against Lazio in 94/95 comes to mind, for example) and still managed to score a couple of goals past Baresi, Maldini and Costacurta. He also tore apart Costacurta a few years later, when he was in the form of his life under Trapattoni.


Some tactical nuances. I changed my defensive strategy for this game. Gentile is moving on the right to man-mark Nedved and Kohler takes his place next to Scirea to help him and Bergomi to deal with physicality of Gullit and Van Basten. It was incredibly hard to score against me before – now it will be impossible.


Key points:

  • My midfield is going to dominate the game here – defensive change frees up Scirea to participate in midfield battle and I also have the best central midfielder on the pitch (and arguably in history). Matthäus’s runs will be my wildcard here.
  • There is a story about Platini’s first weeks in Juve – he struggled do adapt due to his injury/fitness problems and disappointed Gianni Anielli supposedly said: "It's useless to have Platini, if the game goes through the feet of Furino". Furino (36 years old at this point) was dropped and Platini had one of the best spells of his career – he managed to lead the team to the second place in Serie A and the finals of European and Italian Cups (he won the latter) and to become a Serie A top scorer. Well, Platini didn’t set the world alight in this draft so far – but, with Furino on the bench, maybe we will see his magical transformation once again? Just a reminder – he is a playmaker that has 1 in 2 goal record overall his career.

Capillows are fantastic because they are based on a real team – this is their strength and this is their weakness. It’s incredibly hard to upgrade that side, especially with the restricted pool – and Edgar made the best of it. But that side, as mythical as it is, was still beatable – and some of my players actually did it (both in one game and on the distance) with their teams being much weaker than mine. I would imagine it would be much easier with GOAT’s all around you. Stone-wall defence, hardworking and immensely talented midfield, free-flowing attack - it looks just like the team in the final of fantasy tournament should look like.

Some footage of my players against Capillows is posted below

In the game that Juventus won 1:3, Baggio provided a beautiful assist (3:00) and a world-class goal (5:40)
Completely run the show in 1:3 win against Sacchi's Milan. Assisted a goal, won and converted the penalty. Trapattoni's Inter had a pretty good record against Milan in that years.
The first goal is just brilliant. Maldini, Baresi? Who?

And here is the humiliation of Costacurta, as I promised

PLAYER PROFILES
PLAYER PROFILES 2
------------------------------------Harms(sub after 3h)---------------------------------------------------------------------------Edgar

Edgar - Capello
Formation
:

A conservative 4-3-3 or a attacking 4-5-1 depending on how you look at it. :lol:

Team Improvements:
Frank Rijkaard takes his place in the team, the man Sacchi had to fight with Berlusconi to get into this team. 'The Hurricane' with his power, pace, tactical nous became a defensive mainstay in the team and this along with his elegance in game play and willingness to push forward in open play and at set-pieces made him a threat to opposition as much as he was a shield to ours.

Gigi Buffon is widely considered by experts to be one of the most dominant and successful goalkeepers in history. There are no weaknesses to his game and he is able to deliver top performances consistently. An outstanding shot stopper, one of the best in world in dealing crosses, a master defensive organizer, this man has it all and despite having a legendary back line in front of him, his calm and composed performance will surely be appreciated by them.

Dynamics:
+ Rock solid back 4. Arguably the greatest defensive unit in history. As best as it could get. As a defensive unit, Maldini-Baresi-Costacurta are a shade better than what Scirea was part of. Talking about 1982 WC, I would argue that it was more on Gentile man-making that proved to be more effective rather than them as a defensive unit closing down opposition totally...something that Baresi's Milan were masters of.
+ From a defensive point of view, Redondo-Desailly-Rijkaard as just perfect. Positioning, power, pace, strength, elegance, their ability will inevitably dominate the midfield.
+ Moving up, Redondo and Rijkaard cannot be classified as simple DM's. Both are equally comfortable moving up to dictate play and are a threat to opposition on their own.
+ Nedved and Gullit roam the attacking midfield. Good workrate, technical ability, flexibility to cut inside or drift out, they will are perfectly poised to transition and support offence and defence as quickly.
+ van Basten. Best striker on the pitch. The proven partnership of playing with Gullit adds more to my favour.

Tactics:
+ Cafu is a better fullback than Cabrini. With simply unlimited stamina, he will motor up and down shoring defence when off possession and pushing up to provide width when in possession (allowing Gullit to move up as support striker). Baggio who would not contribute in tracking back that much (which Gullit will) and Gullit's presence there ensures Cabrini does not commit forward too much or too often... and... this creates a big link up problem there. Cafu/Gullit will function better and much more productive than Cabrini/Baggio. I hold a significant advantage that side.

+ Platini is the playmaker in harms team and the way he is st up, most of the plays will flow through Platini. The presence of Desailly will hamper Platini much. Marcel was immense under Capello and he has the power and pace to mitigate Platini to a great extent. Rijkaard and Redondo (who are world class and would complement each other perfectly) would simply sink back to form a 3 man shield in front of that already super efficient defence and comfortably handle anything Matthaus/Tardelli can throw at them. Bergomi's defensive role coupled with Nedved there would ensure that Boniek would be isolated. Without Platini to channel and Boniek isolated Baggio would be dropping deeper to create, blunting his threat upfront.

On the other hand, both Nedved and Gullit have the pace and work rate to effective bridge the midfield. they are excellent grafters. Off possession, they will hound after the ball as a 5 man midfield and when on possession, they just step up to increase the threat upfront. The versatility of the players provides for a much smoother transition for the team as a whole which would be highly difficult for harms team to handle.
 
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Annahnomoss

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One of the best finals in draft history here. Not too many flashy names ruining a brilliant team, instead some smart additions to already world class foundation. Harms has improved that Juventus side with Bergomi(who played with the defense for Italy) and Kohler who is one of the few who actually played in a LCB role and was good enough to push Gentile away from his spot.

Matthaus takes place next to the equally great Tardelli and Baggio replaces Paolo Rossi.

On the other side Edgar has added Cafu, Nedved, Desailly and Redondo to a brilliant Milan side. Redondo I guess doing Albertinis playmaking role next to Rijkaard and Desailly added in the defensive midfield.
 

Annahnomoss

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@Edgar Allan Pillow I don't think Cafu is a better player than Cabrini to be fair I think their roles are just very different. Cabrini being better offensively, having a much broader technical skill set while Cafu is better defensively and was more a physical monster.

So many brilliant tactical things going on here. Desailly being able to step down if Baresi pushes forward, Desailly-Albertini and Rijkaard-Albertini played together and Redondo is a great replacement(upgrade).

Scirea is completely covered to go on his runs as a libero here with that back five. Bergomi and Kohler are absolutely brilliant in the air and physically which is the main strength of that Gullit-van Basten pairing. Good choice to remove Gentile from that central area and turning Scirea in to a bonus, rather than having him required to beat Gullit/van Basten in the air through out the game.

I have a hard time seeing Gullit/van Basten getting past Bergomi and Kohler, when Scirea was the master at sweeping up behind whenever it happened. Gentile won't be needing to resort to fouling as Nedved is nowhere near a Zico/Maradona in terms of dribbling so he can handle him roughly but without fouling. He doesn't need to risk fouls in dangerous areas as Scirea would be sweeping up whenever Nedved did get past.

I think that Boniek-Platini-Baggio-Tardelli-Matthaus will certainly score goals, they look like a lethal attack while for EAP I think that Cafu-Cabrini is an even match up where neither will have an advantage. But Maldini on the other side will be forced to push up and overlap for Nedved - it is the only way to break down harms defense.

I certainly see that leading to good crosses as Bergomi would have to move wide(which he comfortably would), which would leave Scirea-Kohler inside the box and Kohler. Rijkaard will also be entering the box most likely every now and then.But at the same time having Maldini so far forward, with Boniek in the opponent team makes me shiver. He's the type of player to just prey on that open space.

One of my favorite draft games ever, maybe the favorite.
 

Annahnomoss

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This match-up :drool:

0-0 written all over it! Definitely not voting yet.
Yeah no doubt if Maldini doesn't push forward to try and create chaos the the organization of Harms back line then only a moment of brilliance will decide this match. I edge it to Baggio-Platini-Boniek though in that regard, maybe not enough to vote though.
 

Raees

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Surely a draw is the only option here as it stands. We need some more attacking substitutions as this is a stalemate - fantastic quality mind you.
 

Balu

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Can we directly go to the penalty shoot-out? This is 8 out of 10 times a 0-0 :lol:. With the other 2 games ending in a fluked 1-0 win once for each team.

I like that harms chose a 5man backline when his midfield is Tardelli and Matthäus. I also respect that EAP finally turned that team into a Capello borefest, well in the spirit of a draft theme about the managers.
 

sajeev

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Trappatoni to win this after a match like the 2003 Champions League final between Milan & Juve which Milan won on penalties. Was a really good watch to match, but I wouldn't watch it again.

I prefer harms team, has the better individuals all round the park, and I think is set up better.
 

Kazi

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Prefer Harms' team overall too, but Van Basten being the only natural goalscorer on the pitch must count for something.
 

Annahnomoss

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Can we directly go to the penalty shoot-out? This is 8 out of 10 times a 0-0 :lol:. With the other 2 games ending in a fluked 1-0 win for once for each team.

I like that harms chose a 5man backline when his midfield is Tardelli and Matthäus. I also respect that EAP finally turned that team into a Capello borefest, well in the spirit of a draft theme about the managers.
Agreed. Matthaus and Tardelli is one of the best midfield duos you can possibly field, was scared Tardelli wouldn't be appreciated enough though but I think giving them a lot of responsibility is definitely the right way to go. Tardelli is a bit underrated but he's easily up there as one of the best central midfielders ever.

He's quite similar to Matthaus in that he has that magical drive and dribbling run in his locker, even if he didn't use it nearly as often as Matthaus.
 

Annahnomoss

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Prefer Harms' team overall too, but Van Basten being the only natural goalscorer on the pitch must count for something.
Platini? He was the top scorer in this set up for Juventus and Serie A. Rossi who played instead of Baggio wasn't much of a goalscorer at all and they scored a lot of goals - usually most in the league.

EDIT: "He finished top scorer in Serie A for three consecutive seasons (1982–83, 1983–84, and 1984–85)"

But VB is in a different level in terms of scoring goals though for sure.
 

Kazi

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Platini? He was the top scorer in this set up for Juventus and Serie A. Rossi who played instead of Baggio wasn't much of a goalscorer at all and they scored a lot of goals - usually most in the league.
Fair point. I did check it up and his numbers are very decent. But I still have Van Basten some way ahead of him in the goalscoring department.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Good luck to you too, mate!

@Edgar Allan Pillow I don't think Cafu is a better player than Cabrini to be fair I think their roles are just very different. Cabrini being better offensively, having a much broader technical skill set while Cafu is better defensively and was more a physical monster.

So many brilliant tactical things going on here. Desailly being able to step down if Baresi pushes forward, Desailly-Albertini and Rijkaard-Albertini played together and Redondo is a great replacement(upgrade).

Scirea is completely covered to go on his runs as a libero here with that back five. Bergomi and Kohler are absolutely brilliant in the air and physically which is the main strength of that Gullit-van Basten pairing. Good choice to remove Gentile from that central area and turning Scirea in to a bonus, rather than having him required to beat Gullit/van Basten in the air through out the game.

I have a hard time seeing Gullit/van Basten getting past Bergomi and Kohler, when Scirea was the master at sweeping up behind whenever it happened. Gentile won't be needing to resort to fouling as Nedved is nowhere near a Zico/Maradona in terms of dribbling so he can handle him roughly but without fouling. He doesn't need to risk fouls in dangerous areas as Scirea would be sweeping up whenever Nedved did get past.

I think that Boniek-Platini-Baggio-Tardelli-Matthaus will certainly score goals, they look like a lethal attack while for EAP I think that Cafu-Cabrini is an even match up where neither will have an advantage. But Maldini on the other side will be forced to push up and overlap for Nedved - it is the only way to break down harms defense.

I certainly see that leading to good crosses as Bergomi would have to move wide(which he comfortably would), which would leave Scirea-Kohler inside the box and Kohler. Rijkaard will also be entering the box most likely every now and then.But at the same time having Maldini so far forward, with Boniek in the opponent team makes me shiver. He's the type of player to just prey on that open space.

One of my favorite draft games ever, maybe the favorite.
Some points, I briefly touched upon in my OP.

Edit : On Scirea stepping out its not that necessary in this game when he has Redondo and Rijkaard to playmake in front of him. I know we had this theme with Kaiser before in this draft, but Baresi? No way. I would expect him to play his natural game and stop opposition with his reading of the game.
As I expected, harms is set up to route most plays through Platini. With him facing Desailly (when off possession, Rijkaard and Redondo are also there) , it leaves Matthaus/Tardelli/Cabrini to share the load. Again similar for me, he's playing a 5 man back that requires support from the deep. When it comes to support from middle I still would prefer Redondo / Rijkaard Tobe able to provide the turning point much more than his.

Cabrini linking with Baggio is not as straightforward as you make it. I have Cafu and a grafting Gullit there and with Baggio not suited to tracking back it will be tenuous at best. Definitely not a full time threat.

And tbh, I'm not sure on Gentile as wing back either. I remember he was a left back, but far more effective as CB and Juve all time teams list him at CB only. I can understand the reasons, but that Gentile is not what made him famous. I mean everything that you normally associte with that name is taken out, what remains I'm really not sure.
 
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Annahnomoss

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Good luck to you too, mate!



Some points, I briefly touched upon in my OP.

As I expected, harms is set up to route most plays through Platini. With him facing Desailly (when off possession, Rijkaard and Redondo are also there) , it leaves Matthaus/Tardelli/Cabrini to share the load. Again similar for me, he's playing a 5 man back that requires support from the deep. When it comes to support from middle I still would prefer Redondo / Rijkaard Tobe able to provide the turning point much more than his.

Cabrini linking with Baggio is not as straightforward as you make it. I have Cafu and a grafting Gullit there and with Baggio not suited to tracking back it will be tenuous at best. Definitely not a full time threat.

And tbh, I'm not sure on Gentile as wing back either. I remember he was a left back, but far more effective as CB and Juve all time teams list him at CB only. I can understand the reasons, but that Gentile is not what made him famous. I mean everything that you normally associte with that name is taken out, what remains I'm really not sure.
Don't think I was making Cabrini sound like he'd have a blinder linking up with Baggio here. I thought I said Cafu and Cabrini will be having a battle of their own with neither having an advantage - but that doesn't mean both wonçt have their successful moments.

If I did then it must have been a typo!
EDIT: Can't find me saying it, maybe it was from the OP from harms.
 
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Edgar Allan Pillow

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Don't think I was making Cabrini sound like he'd have a blinder linking up with Baggio here. I thought I said Cafu and Cabrini will be having a battle of their own with neither having an advantage - but that doesn't mean both will have their successful moments.

If I did then it must have been a typo!
No worries mate. But I still think Cafu will have a edge to those battles. Both individually and when counting in the support provided go Gullit vs Baggio.
 

sajeev

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:lol: I just knew you would be on the other side!
yup Capello is a big no-no for me since he managed Real, and then resigned supporting John Terry :houllier:

and i think a few of your players are over-rated but yeah an incredible team, i just don't like it
 

antohan

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@Edgar Allan Pillow I don't think Cafu is a better player than Cabrini to be fair I think their roles are just very different. Cabrini being better offensively, having a much broader technical skill set while Cafu is better defensively and was more a physical monster.
I think the point was more along the lines of it being a battle Cafú would win, which I think is fair. Not taking anything away from Cabrini, but it's interesting that both attacking fullbacks are having their own little battle on the same flank and EAP makes a good point that Gullit would get involved and tip that battle more than Baggio would, more so now that he is effectively the striker upfront and not in midfield.

I'm not quite sure what the logic of playing Baggio ahead of Batistuta was. I get the 5-man backline and think harms absolutely needed that to navigate this game. It's a selection headache having to pick two out of Baggio-Batistuta-Boniek and, if I may say, Rossi. Personally, once you have Platini and Boniek you may as well play Rossi there. Batistuta is an upgrade individually, but Rossi spent years playing with those other two. Baggio? Only reason I can find is harms being worried about Platini getting shut out and needing to drop him back to start up moves... but then you have no focal point in attack.
 

antohan

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And tbh, I'm not sure on Gentile as wing back either. I remember he was a left back, but far more effective as CB and Juve all time teams list him at CB only. I can understand the reasons, but that Gentile is not what made him famous. I mean everything that you normally associte with that name is taken out, what remains I'm really not sure.
:houllier: He is not playing wingback but RB, as a spare wheel on a man-marking mission, which is very much how Italy used him in '82.
 

antohan

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yup Capello is a big no-no for me since he managed Real, and then resigned supporting John Terry :houllier:

and i think a few of your players are over-rated but yeah an incredible team, i just don't like it
:lol: Classic!
 

VivaJanuzaj

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Classic all Seria A final going to prove itself as a 0-0 draw! I'm voting for a draw as I don't see any team scoring here and perhaps a change from either manager will make me change my vote.
Class write up @harms
 

Annahnomoss

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I think the point was more along the lines of it being a battle Cafú would win, which I think is fair. Not taking anything away from Cabrini, but it's interesting that both attacking fullbacks are having their own little battle on the same flank and EAP makes a good point that Gullit would get involved and tip that battle more than Baggio would, more so now that he is effectively the striker upfront and not in midfield.

I'm not quite sure what the logic of playing Baggio ahead of Batistuta was. I get the 5-man backline and think harms absolutely needed that to navigate this game. It's a selection headache having to pick two out of Baggio-Batistuta-Boniek and, if I may say, Rossi. Personally, once you have Platini and Boniek you may as well play Rossi there. Batistuta is an upgrade individually, but Rossi spent years playing with those other two. Baggio? Only reason I can find is harms being worried about Platini getting shut out and needing to drop him back to start up moves... but then you have no focal point in attack.
I am torn about it. Cabrini will be a fully covered wing back and he can afford being caught out, it still leaves Kohler covering with Scirea-Bergomi-Gentile about. I think both Cafu and Cabrini will have a difficult time imposing themselves offensively, Cafu because Boniek may abuse the space he leaves behind or Cabrini may just as well do it if he gets a good chance.

Would be a brilliant match up where they'd both have their moments. Cabrini's early crossing was hard to stop. As will Cafu's for that matter, even if it wasn't quite his speciality.
 

harms

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We need to make the draw legitimate option for those matches, i.e. if the draw have more votes than either of the managers, it should go to penalties. My guys certainly didn't deserve to be losing 2-6 already :(
 

Balu

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Baggio? Only reason I can find is harms being worried about Platini getting shut out and needing to drop him back to start up moves... but then you have no focal point in attack.
He had to start, so that harms could post the video ;)
 

Annahnomoss

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If EAP accepts it, it is fair enough. Otherwise I am quite sure it pans out like always that the votes evens out in the end as people who think a draw is far actually adjust their vote.
 

harms

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He had to start, so that harms could post the video ;)
Did you see Batistuta videos? They are probably even more impressive. It was an incredibly hard decision.
 

Balu

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Did you see Batistuta videos? They are probably even more impressive. It was an incredibly hard decision.
Yeah, I did and I'd actually prefer if you started him and in case you took the lead would sub him off for Baggio and point to that Baggio goal on the counter to finish the game.
 

harms

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If EAP accepts it, it is fair enough. Otherwise I am quite sure it pans out like always that the votes evens out in the end as people who think a draw is far actually adjust their vote.
I'm just moaning a little, though it could be an interesting idea for the future - if I would've been a voter in that game I certainly would think that this would be a 0:0 draw. I don't think that I've seen so defensive games before though
 

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I have decided to vote for my Brother in Capello. Strikers generally decide games like this and Van Basten is one of the best.
 

harms

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As I expected, harms is set up to route most plays through Platini. With him facing Desailly (when off possession, Rijkaard and Redondo are also there) , it leaves Matthaus/Tardelli/Cabrini to share the load. Again similar for me, he's playing a 5 man back that requires support from the deep. When it comes to support from middle I still would prefer Redondo / Rijkaard Tobe able to provide the turning point much more than his.
Boniek, Baggio, Matthäus, Scirea and Cabrini are on the pitch - Platini is certainly not the only playmaker on the pitch and even if you will manage to somehow stop him, which I'm not sure that you are capable of, it won't be that bad.
 

Balu

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How good was van Basten's record against Kohler after the '88 disaster? Kohler always stated that the game at the Euro in '88 showed him how much he still had to learn about defending and he definitely did. From '90 onwards, Kohler had a few fantastic performances against van Basten (the one at the World Cup in '90 stands out) and with Scirea and Bergomi next to him in defense, it doesn't get any easier. Of course, it's van Basten, he's always capable of scoring a goal, but how likely is it really in this game? Great to see that match-up again, at least from a German perspective with the Germany-Netherlands rivalry at the absolute peak from 88-92, the van Basten - Kohler match-ups have a special place in my memory. I'm also still annoyed that Bayern went out on away goals in extra-time against Milan in the semifinal in 1990. I always felt we were the better side and deserved to go through :(.

On the other hand, the only way I can see harms scoring is from a Platini freekick, but those Milan guys didn't commit many fouls in dangerous positions. I can't see Baggio scoring a goal on the counter like the one in the op unless harms already is in the lead and EAP's team has to push higher to chase the game. Both sides won't create a lot from open play here, so set-pieces should be really important.
 

sajeev

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oh i don't mean to say i hate him for managing Real but rather for the way he made them play during his second reign. Absolutely hated it, and ruined some of my hours which I spent dedicated to watching football, while almost everyone else on campus was doing something as boring but ultimately with more utility
 

antohan

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harms said:
Edgar’s team is based on, probably, the greatest club team in history, but, as he chose Capello and not Sacchi, it is the same players, yet not on their non-arguable peak, which was a few years earlier.
....
That Milan (both Sacchi’s and Capello’s) was the best side in the great Serie A of late 80’s and 90’s. The best players from all over the world played there and the games against Milan were a litmus test for them to prove their claims for a true greatness.
TBH, the only player that really applies to is Gullit, whose Sacchi/Capello form I would liken to Ronaldo before and after injury. The early one was a force of nature that promised to take over the world and the GOAT roster, the later one still a World Class player up there with the very best of his time. I get the romance with Sacchi, I too prefer to think about the Dutchies as Sacchi's Milan, but the fact is they won the league once and then came second twice and third once. Capello won three leagues on the trot and wasn't far from bettering Sacchi's two European Cups by reaching three CL Finals on the trot, but only winning one (by then it wasn't as good a side as the 91-92 one, clearly, which is what sticks in the mind).

It's interesting you end up making a point not far from what I was making the other day: Milan's dominance came at a time when the very best players in the world played in Serie A. That's actually what makes their record all the more remarkable. Juve, on the other hand, didn't quite face the same level of competition and as soon as that competition started arriving they lost their grip on the league and their own clean sheets.

Up until 1982, when Juve get their 20th title, Serie A had been a procession of big teams: Juve, both Milans and Torino, with the occasional upset like Riva's Cagliari in 1969-70. In the ten seasons after that it entered a stage of flux as various stars from all over the world started arriving and making it a far less predictable league. Three clubs got their first Scudetto (Verona, Napoli and Sampdoria), another two added a second (Napoli and Roma) and the big clubs had to make do with the odd title here and there. It was Capello's Milan that restored order, winning three on the trot, whatever the oppo had to throw at them, and since then it has been largely Milan and Juventus, with an Inter period in the noughties (partly calcipoli acquired).

I think it's relevant to stress that because all too often we just throw around "probably the best club side in history" without quite delving into how fecking remarkable it was, let alone the fact you needed to span ten seasons to find three clips where they look vulnerable!
 
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antohan

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oh i don't mean to say i hate him for managing Real but rather for the way he made them play during his second reign. Absolutely hated it, and ruined some of my hours which I spent dedicated to watching football, while almost everyone else on campus was doing something as boring but ultimately with more utility
Sounds like the typical Capello Experience package. Agreed, better go for one in a spa.
 

harms

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let alone the fact you needed to span ten seasons to find three clips where they look vulnerable!
I found them quite easy, to be fair, and I have more, those are just the most remarkable ones.

They won it because they had the best team overall, with world-class or almost world-class players on every position. Matthäus, for example, won that league with young Berti (who was compared to Tardelli, actually) beside him. He had only Brehme, Bergomi and maybe Zenga who were world-class at the time. Yet he did it. And now he has an actual Tardelli on the right and the well-oiled team full of world-class and even GOAT players to do what he does best. That's the thing - I have a fantasy side and Edgar has an upgraded real side, which would've been unbeatable in the real world, but this isn't it.
 

sajeev

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It's interesting you end up making a point not far from what I was making the other day: Milan's dominance came at a time when the very best players in the world played in Serie A. That's actually what makes their record all the more remarkable. Juve, on the other hand, didn't quite face the same level of competition and as soon as that competition started arriving they lost their grip on the league and their own clean sheets.
but the other side of the equation if i am wrong is the money Berlusconi pumped in around that time, making Milan a much stronger entity, and able to compete with Juve and the upstarts