Ched Evans

[Getsme]

Yes they are, or at least they are doing their level best to stop them.

I think it's disgraceful how he's being treated to be honest, whether he is guilty or not. Assuming for one moment that he is guilty, the laws of the land as implemented by the courts have seen him sentenced, do his time and be released. The judge didn't impose any special restrictions saying he must not work in football for a period of xyz years, or indeed at all. So what these protesters are in fact saying is "we didn't like the sentence, so we'd like to impose our own more stringent sentence instead". Well what if those protesters were in favour of capital punishment for rape convictions? Would it be OK to decided now to round up a lynch mob and have him killed? No of course it wouldn't, and in the same way it is not right to seek to force others to make his punishment worse than that which the law intended.

And just imagine for one moment that perhaps this man is actually innocent? We don't have capital punishment in this country, in large part because we recognise that people are found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But not beyond ALL doubt, and sometimes our courts get it wrong.

You do realise these type of things happen to ordinary people every single day of the week, most for committing crimes far less serious than that of Ched Evans. He isn’t being victimised here at all, just because he served his time doesn’t mean people are going to forget what he did. Why should a Club take a risk on him if it means that they will lose fans, sponsorship and other royalties?
It doesn’t matter if you or I think he is innocent, he has been found guilty, therefore until proven otherwise he will be a known convicted rapist, Evans is NOT the victim here, and quite frankly I’m surprised people are showing him so much sympathy.

Rape is one of the most hideous crimes that have lifetime lasting effects on the victim and their families, why should Evans be treated different to any average Joe on the street who commits this vile act.

 

[Marching]

Yes they are, or at least they are doing their level best to stop them.

I think it's disgraceful how he's being treated to be honest, whether he is guilty or not. Assuming for one moment that he is guilty, the laws of the land as implemented by the courts have seen him sentenced, do his time and be released. The judge didn't impose any special restrictions saying he must not work in football for a period of xyz years, or indeed at all. So what these protesters are in fact saying is "we didn't like the sentence, so we'd like to impose our own more stringent sentence instead". Well what if those protesters were in favour of capital punishment for rape convictions? Would it be OK to decided now to round up a lynch mob and have him killed? No of course it wouldn't, and in the same way it is not right to seek to force others to make his punishment worse than that which the law intended.

And just imagine for one moment that perhaps this man is actually innocent? We don't have capital punishment in this country, in large part because we recognise that people are found guilty beyond reasonable doubt. But not beyond ALL doubt, and sometimes our courts get it wrong.

Yes are courts get it wrong but as we type he is guilty....IF the appeal is upheld then we've all wasted far too long waffling on about this.

However, the point went whooshing over your head.

The ONLY people who can stop Evans getting a job are the owners of the football club. No amount of shouting, protesting, petition signing, moaning on football forums, withdrawing sponsorship can actually stop him getting a job....IF the owners stand firm and say it's their right to employ him which of course it is.

 

[MancunianAngels]

But that does not preclude him from working in other jobs.

In many cases it does.

If he was applying for a bog standard customer sservice job, having a rape conviction isn't going to put him near the top candidates.

Onto other points

The most worrying part of this is how a fairly developed country views rape victims. She might well of been "on the pull" but she didn't give consent for Ched Evans or the bastard filming them.

The "he shags who he wants" brigade will be out in force when he actually starts playing again. I don't believe footballers are role models but that isn't sending great message especially when victims of sex offences are still treated awfully even in the time of Operation Yewtree

 

[cyberman]

Fans have a right to sign a petition. A petition isn't a legal binding document that states you must do as we ask, it's a show of opinion. That's a right.

Sponsors have the right to back out if they refuse to be associated with the club that's signing the highest profile rapist in Britain. That a right.

Owners also have a right not to hire a player that disrupts or sets the club back from what they want to achieve. That's a right

I know there's other more sadistic rapists and I know it's not fair but being a footballer is like being a politician. A Sunday rag breaking a story about Giggs would get more fanfare that nameless MP scandal number 863. That's just the world we live in. Footballers are expected to live on the straight and narrow in the public conciseness. We all know they don't but there is a public facade to abide by.
That's the way of the world.

 

[Jippy]

Yes are courts get it wrong but as we type he is guilty....IF the appeal is upheld then we've all wasted far too long waffling on about this.

However, the point went whooshing over your head.

The ONLY people who can stop Evans getting a job are the owners of the football club. No amount of shouting, protesting, petition signing, moaning on football forums, withdrawing sponsorship can actually stop him getting a job....IF the owners stand firm and say it's their right to employ him which of course it is.

It's a big if when it comes to sponsors pulling money.
The culture or sport secretary is calling for the FA to withhold his registration while the appeal is being worked through. Wonder what the legality of that would be?

 

[ravi2]

You might try disproving the logic of the post rather than just shouting 'Aaaaaah, it's shit'.

Peter, to be honest most of your posts are shit too, so I'm really not too concerned what either of you two have to say.

 

[ravi2]

absolutely right. NOBODY is stopping ANYONE giving Evans a job. BUT those employers have the right to NOT give him a job. Just as those who feel strongly enough against him playing have the right to sign a petition or take their sponsorship away from a club.

For those who don't understand why he's only served half his sentence behind bars....he serves the remainder on licence which comes with restrictions as does being on the sex offenders list such as not being allowed abroad and having to meet his parole officer and not work in certain areas such as with children.

...Kinda the same way that the woman has to live with the fact that someone raped her for the rest of her life. Ched Evans is dealing with his karma now.

 

[peterstorey]

Peter, to be honest most of your posts are shit too, so I'm really not too concerned what either of you two have to say.

You're a great addition to the caf.

 

[ravi2]

You're a great addition to the caf.

Ive heard many similar sentiments echoed about your honourable name, as a newb and in here as well.

 

[Jippy]

Just watching Channel 4 news. The reporter is seemingly moaning that neither Ched Evans' school nor Rhyl's mayor, a local community centre and the local paper wouldn't comment.
'Rhyl appears to prefer the no comment approach.'
What the feck did they expect his old PE teacher to say? 'He always had rape in them eyes.'

 

[RedRover]

Thanks for that, got a better understanding now.




Aside from this, I don't think Evans or anyone else should complain that no one will sign him. Perhaps people are demonstrating double standards but this may not be the precedent from now on.

People are entitled to their opinion and that's fine, it just raises all sorts of issues for me.

Maybe this is a turning point in football and people won't put up with bad behaviour from players anymore. I suspect not though.

As I said above its the arbitrariness of it I think could be problematic. The public deciding what's acceptable and what isn't based on what sort of chaos that can be drummed up on social media.

I think rape is an abhorrent crime and anyone found guilty deserves to be punished.

But I have an issue with continuing to punish someone after they've been sent to prison and served their time for any crime. I don't see the point of rehabilitation if that's the case - you might as well lock people up forever.

I also don't like the power the media seems to have in incidents like this. We live in a free country and I can't see the benefit of rule by mob. A lot of the people signing these petitions are just jumping on a media bandwagon.

 

[Rado_N]

This must be one of the most shit posts I've read here in a very long time.

Peter, to be honest most of your posts are shit too, so I'm really not too concerned what either of you two have to say.

If you've nothing to actually say, don't post.

 

[Eugenius]

I'm fairly sure Mike Tyson doesn't have half this controversy?

 

[Getsme]

I'm fairly sure Mike Tyson doesn't have half this controversy?

He did, difference is he doesn’t have to play as part of a team or have a boss etc.

 

[Eugenius]

He did, difference is he doesn’t have to play as part of a team or have a boss etc.

You can't just sanction a fight by yourself. You need a promoter, a broadcaster, an opponent. Evidently at least 1.52 million households didn't care about his conviction because that's how many bought his comeback fight PPV making $63m. He's also on mainstream TV a lot.

Compare that to Ched Evans who can't even play league one football.

 

[Getsme]

You can't just sanction a fight by yourself. You need a promoter, a broadcaster, an opponent. Evidently at least 1.52 million households didn't care about his conviction because that's how many bought his comeback fight PPV making $63m. He's also on mainstream TV a lot.

Compare that to Ched Evans who can't even play league one football.

I know that, but he will be the boss, that’s the difference. If somebody didn’t want to work for him he’d find someone else, if somebody didn’t want to fight him, he’d find someone else, if a certain TV station didn’t want to show it, he’d find another one. Evans has to rely on other people, Tyson didn’t.

 

[Jippy]

I'm fairly sure Mike Tyson doesn't have half this controversy?

Seem to remember a hoohah about him getting a visa when he came to the UK.

 

[MoneyMay]

Ched Evans case shows law is an ass, not the clubs wanting to sign him

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Seem to remember a hoohah about him getting a visa when he came to the UK.

Yes, and mobbed with a heroes welcome when he did arrive. It was a different era. I wonder how that would play out in the current landscape. Having said that, Floyd Mayweather is a serial physical abuser of women and I am sure that he would still get the heroes welcome here like he did last time.

 

[sullydnl]

Yes, and mobbed with a heroes welcome when he did arrive. It was a different era. I wonder how that would play out in the current landscape. Having said that, Floyd Mayweather is a serial physical abuser of women and I am sure that he would still get the heroes welcome here like he did last time.

Tyson still gets a hero's welcome when he's promoting something or doing one of his talks. Not a lot has changed, I think.

 

[peterstorey]

Yes, and mobbed with a heroes welcome when he did arrive. It was a different era. I wonder how that would play out in the current landscape. Having said that, Floyd Mayweather is a serial physical abuser of women and I am sure that he would still get the heroes welcome here like he did last time.

No differently for Tyson I suspect due to his massive celebrity. Evans for all the hoopla is/was just a little-known championship forward - hence easy meat for a witch-hunt.

 

[Mogget]

No differently for Tyson I suspect due to his massive celebrity. Evans for all the hoopla is/was just a little-known championship forward - hence easy meat for a witch-hunt.

It's not a witch hunt because he's been found guilty.

 

[peterstorey]

It's not a witch hunt because he's been found guilty.

He served the sentence of a guilty man, the witch-hunt is determined to see him serve a further sentence.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

No differently for Tyson I suspect due to his massive celebrity. Evans for all the hoopla is/was just a little-known championship forward - hence easy meat for a witch-hunt.

He is the perfect target for the liberal press: a white male footballer, just about talented enough to be considered privileged but not talented enough to be considered important.

Look at Marlon King, for example, a hideous human being and a higher level and higher paid player than Evans but he could get back into the game with minor fuss after his many crimes.

 

[Jippy]

Yes, and mobbed with a heroes welcome when he did arrive. It was a different era. I wonder how that would play out in the current landscape. Having said that, Floyd Mayweather is a serial physical abuser of women and I am sure that he would still get the heroes welcome here like he did last time.

Pretty sure the massive reception he got in Brixton was a different occasion but could be wrong.

 

[peterstorey]

Tyson Brixton 2000. Women's groups are angry that home secretary Jack Straw allowed the convicted rapist to enter the country even though non-EU citizens who have served long jail terms are usually kept out.

 

[Jippy]

Ched Evans case shows law is an ass, not the clubs wanting to sign him

Not notmally a Marina Hyde fan- find her restaurant reviews a bit catty, for example- but she speaks a lot of sense there.
@SteveJ what do you make of Marina? Her stock at the Guardian has flown over the last two years.

 

[SteveJ]

Pretty good generally, mate, I think but I do get a bit tired of the whole 'star journalist/columnist' thing going on in recent years - I'm more interested in what they write rather than any **** of personality thing.

 

[sparky]

People are entitled to their opinion and that's fine, it just raises all sorts of issues for me.

Maybe this is a turning point in football and people won't put up with bad behaviour from players anymore. I suspect not though.

As I said above its the arbitrariness of it I think could be problematic. The public deciding what's acceptable and what isn't based on what sort of chaos that can be drummed up on social media.

I think rape is an abhorrent crime and anyone found guilty deserves to be punished.

But I have an issue with continuing to punish someone after they've been sent to prison and served their time for any crime. I don't see the point of rehabilitation if that's the case - you might as well lock people up forever.

I also don't like the power the media seems to have in incidents like this. We live in a free country and I can't see the benefit of rule by mob. A lot of the people signing these petitions are just jumping on a media bandwagon.

Whilst I agree with the last bit. He has not served his time. He has served half in prison and is currently serving the rest in the community. For me, I think the issue is that Football today is such a privileged job for those that are able to compete at a high level. The rewards are immense and those of us doing an ordinary job can not even comprehend how much they earn. Whether people like it or not, players are role models and most probably live an a world where they believe they can do no wrong (probably through hangers on and agents etc) - though that is speculation on my part. I think it is very hard for many people who have committed a crime to restart their lives, his case is not helped by what he does for a living. That being said, I am saddened by the way some people also use the free speech and mob mentality to defend him and further ruin the life of the victim and she is a victim. He himself has shown no remorse despite being convicted and an appeal turned down.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

I also don't like the power the media seems to have in incidents like this. We live in a free country and I can't see the benefit of rule by mob. A lot of the people signing these petitions are just jumping on a media bandwagon.

"I have no choice but to impose an immediate custodial sentence to reflect the public outrage at what you have done."

Judge in Liam Stacy's case. It's troubling.

 

[itso 7]

He served the sentence of a guilty man, the witch-hunt is determined to see him serve a further sentence.

Sort of agree with that because that's what it's starting to look like. He's served his debt to society and should be allowed to live a normal life like any other person and anyone who is willing to offer him a break shouldn't be targeted since his sentence did not include a lifetime ban from football.

 

[Getsme]

Sort of agree with that because that's what it's starting to look like. He's served his debt to society and should be allowed to live a normal life like any other person and anyone who is willing to offer him a break shouldn't be targeted since his sentence did not include a lifetime ban from football.

Again, this happens to people on a day to day basis, it's difficult for anyone to get a job after a jail sentence.
If one of your colleagues at work was a convicted rapist do you think he would be accepted into the work place by everybody?

 

[finneh]

No differently for Tyson I suspect due to his massive celebrity. Evans for all the hoopla is/was just a little-known championship forward - hence easy meat for a witch-hunt.

Correct; just like if it were Messi every club in the Premier League would try to sign him, despite the baggage. Having this baggage merely makes him a less attractive option, which means he'll have to settle for a worse club and a lower salary than he would otherwise be at. The punishment doesn't stop at a prison sentence for convicted rapists, usually their job prospects are somewhat harmed too.

 

[sparky]

Sort of agree with that because that's what it's starting to look like. He's served his debt to society and should be allowed to live a normal life like any other person and anyone who is willing to offer him a break shouldn't be targeted since his sentence did not include a lifetime ban from football.

No. He is still serving his sentence. He only did half in jail. His victim should also be allowed to lead a normal life, but she will never be able to.

 

[Marching]

Sort of agree with that because that's what it's starting to look like. He's served his debt to society and should be allowed to live a normal life like any other person and anyone who is willing to offer him a break shouldn't be targeted since his sentence did not include a lifetime ban from football.

As Sparky pointed out he's not yet served his debt to society and I'm not sure I'd call someone with their name on the sex offenders list as living a normal life.

However, taking all that into account it has to be remembered nobody is stopping a club giving him a job. In fact it seems it might come down to his rich and odd father in law is looking at splashing his cash to make up any loss of income Oldham might suffer from sponsors walking away from the club.

Again, this happens to people on a day to day basis, it's difficult for anyone to get a job after a jail sentence.
If one of your colleagues at work was a convicted rapist do you think he would be accepted into the work place by everybody?

Good points.

 

[Dion]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...TIN-SAMUEL-Ched-Evans-victim-mobs-going.html?

It's too long to post here (stupid character limit) but there's not much more to say really.

 

[sullydnl]

No. He is still serving his sentence. He only did half in jail. His victim should also be allowed to lead a normal life, but she will never be able to.

He's served his time to the extent that was required by the justice system before being allowed to return to employment. What more do you expect him to do? Wilfully abstain from employment for the next few years or demand to be allowed to serve out the rest of his sentence?

As for the point you made above about him showing no remorse, of course he hasn't. He thinks he's innocent. He has to be allowed to continue protesting his innocence even if nobody else agrees with him. In fact I'd imagine his legal team would be dead set against him showing any sort of remorse given that he's still appealing his conviction....

 

[Ixion]

He is out on license for 2.5 years so he is still serving a sentence, I don't see why he should get such a high profile job during that time.

From what I understand his entire argument is that he disagrees with what rape actually is, the legal definition of it. He's never going to show remorse and I don't think he should be accepted back into football until he does.

 

[Tarrou]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...TIN-SAMUEL-Ched-Evans-victim-mobs-going.html?

It's too long to post here (stupid character limit) but there's not much more to say really.

I love how they pass judgement on 'the angry mob' for making that internet troll kill herself then go on to say this "Katie Hopkins (pictured) is a troll having been a failed reality show contestant of weak intellect"

 

[Dion]

He is out on license for 2.5 years so he is still serving a sentence, I don't see why he should get such a high profile job during that time.

Because what qualifies as a "high profile" job is such an arbitrary and spiteful concept. What if he revolutionises road sweeping or refuse collection and makes billions within a year? Do we asset strip him and stop papers publishing stories about it? The wealth and fame doesn't come into it for a reason, because it's entirely subjective.

I love how they pass judgement on 'the angry mob' for making that internet troll kill herself then go on to say this "Katie Hopkins (pictured) is a troll having been a failed reality show contestant of weak intellect"

He's making an (accurate) comment about the way she operates and behaves as a journalist. It's not a targeted, coordinated attack on her right to do what she likes within the law. They're considerably different.