Van Hoof of course and then Giggs takes over in the summer of 2017. And every rival fan will laugh.
Louis Van Gaal | 2015-16 Performance Thread
- Thread starter Nighteyes
- Start date
Does this guy even train on off the ball movement? 
We'll be lucky if we'll get just one player of our club's needed standards but in the past we saw some truly awesome deals going on at this time of the year. Saha, Vidic, Evra, Suarez, Coutinho... Can't see why United wouldn't want to use the power of it's scouting department and LvG's rich connections across the whole Europe to at least try and make this season look like we're serious about returning to the very top.
The only ball he's moving is made from meat in his favorite restaurant.Does this guy even train on off the ball movement?
It would be valid for him to complain about us not taking our chances if today was an isolated incident. Well, valid if we ignore the fact that West Ham created four huge, huge chances that were bigger than most of if not every chance we carved out.
It isn't though. We've drawn four of our last six home matches , scoring three goals in those matches and the draws have all finished 0-0. That's atrocious and frankly not anywhere close to United standard.
And looking at the bigger picture, I think I saw a statistic after last weekend putting us in 18th place in the league in chances created. Which is absolutely awful.
Playing LVG-ball maximizes the risk of us losing points against sub-par opposition since we're relying on taking most of very few chances, while at the same type keeping it absolutely tight at the back since 1 mistake can cost us the game (like we saw vs Leicester).
It's just not a clever way to play when possessing better players than most of your opponents.
It isn't though. We've drawn four of our last six home matches , scoring three goals in those matches and the draws have all finished 0-0. That's atrocious and frankly not anywhere close to United standard.
And looking at the bigger picture, I think I saw a statistic after last weekend putting us in 18th place in the league in chances created. Which is absolutely awful.
Playing LVG-ball maximizes the risk of us losing points against sub-par opposition since we're relying on taking most of very few chances, while at the same type keeping it absolutely tight at the back since 1 mistake can cost us the game (like we saw vs Leicester).
It's just not a clever way to play when possessing better players than most of your opponents.
Yes I saw this too. It's just indefensible.
I feel we've had this problem for years. Even going back to SAF's last season.Does this guy even train on off the ball movement?
Our off the ball movement compared to other teams is atrocious. I thought LVG would remedy this problem.
Serious doubts now, though they've been there for most of this season, and even his ardent fans can't exactly keep pointing to 'results over style', we've drawn 4 of our last 6 and are lying 4th with just three more points compared to last season at this stage, and anything but a win away to Wolfsburg and we're probably out of a very winnable group in the CL, already out of the (admittedly less important) League Cup, with performances still rubbish and far too many players wholly out of form, the season could be very well in jeopardy if things don't change. I'm already hearing talk of a big spend in January and I'm just rolling my eyes in response, who are we spunking stupid amounts at now? Mahrez/Vardy/Ighalo or some other flavour of the month? Or are we going to waste our time trying to 'bring Ronnie home' or prize some unhappy star out of form?
The job of a coach is to get the best out of the players available to him and request improvements when necessary, as in you have to do the first in order to get a chance at the second, Moyes didn't do this and was rightly sacked before he had the chance to get his hands on the transfer budget again. Van Gaal did the bare minimum last season and got us 4th, great, wonderful, but we expected progress from that this season, and aside from the back end, I think we've gone backwards. We play with no tempo, no intent, happy to pass the opposition to death and rely on the odd bit of Martial magic or rare decent cross. There's absolutely no cohesion to the team's attack, no clear blueprint or tactical nous involved. He refuses to change our basic setup and his only 'plan b' is to throw on Fellaini to try and knock down Ashley Young's floaty crosses to the backpost. He refuses to change the approach of the team on the pitch and instead makes a whole set of usually bizarre changes, often leaving on out of form players who clearly aren't having their day. He has tried to shoehorn the players he has into this philosophy of his, instead of doing what most managers do and adapting and modifying their philosophy to suit the players available. Imagine Guardiola going into West Brom expecting them to play like like his Barca/Bayern sides, it would be hilariously bad to watch.
His squad management has been next to laughable. He decides to gut most of the squad players, fine, some of them weren't up to scratch, whatever, but he still had to replace them, and didn't, now we have our oh so surprising injury crisis #453, and lookie here, we're lacking squad depth in several positions and have to plug in players out of position and throw in youngsters. I was sure after 3 transfer windows he'd have the team prepared for a big season but after the joke of an end to last summer he goes into the season with Januzaj as our no.10, oh so he has real faith in this new setup? Nope, loaned out after the first month and we change our first 11 again. This just tells me he was making it up as he went along and didn't have a clue as to what his first 11 was. We go into the season with Rooney and Martial as our only true striker options? How shocking that injuries/form would make this a problem. The team he has that aren't performing are his own doing and I have no sympathy for him, and I honestly would not trust another 100/200m with him again.
And of course we have all the excuses from certain fans at the ready. Whether it's Rooney's/Mata's/Memphis's/Carrick's fault, or the whole team not being good enough to form a single attack, us lacking a Messi/Ronaldo/Neymar to do it all on their own, or all those individual mistakes, or all those mean midtable sides coming to play for a draw, or the referees, or bad luck or whatever, it's usually not HIS fault. I saw this under Moyes, he had the whole school of 'it's not my fault' out in force, it's complete whataboutery and just avoids the main problem. So many of our fans are (once again) more than happy to throw the whole team under the bus just to avoid possibly blaming the manager for these shite performances, utterly bizarre. We've seen an out of form Rooney become the sole scapegoat for this place, completely saving LVG from the flak he gets. I can't blame Van Gaal for every little thing gone wrong under his tenure, but I can say that the buck does indeed stop with him, and if he can't sufficiently get the best out of this team and get them performing then I don't believe he should continue as manager. Things could change, we could beat Wolsfurg and get our act together, but it's hard to be positive about this team, and it's manager right now.
The job of a coach is to get the best out of the players available to him and request improvements when necessary, as in you have to do the first in order to get a chance at the second, Moyes didn't do this and was rightly sacked before he had the chance to get his hands on the transfer budget again. Van Gaal did the bare minimum last season and got us 4th, great, wonderful, but we expected progress from that this season, and aside from the back end, I think we've gone backwards. We play with no tempo, no intent, happy to pass the opposition to death and rely on the odd bit of Martial magic or rare decent cross. There's absolutely no cohesion to the team's attack, no clear blueprint or tactical nous involved. He refuses to change our basic setup and his only 'plan b' is to throw on Fellaini to try and knock down Ashley Young's floaty crosses to the backpost. He refuses to change the approach of the team on the pitch and instead makes a whole set of usually bizarre changes, often leaving on out of form players who clearly aren't having their day. He has tried to shoehorn the players he has into this philosophy of his, instead of doing what most managers do and adapting and modifying their philosophy to suit the players available. Imagine Guardiola going into West Brom expecting them to play like like his Barca/Bayern sides, it would be hilariously bad to watch.
His squad management has been next to laughable. He decides to gut most of the squad players, fine, some of them weren't up to scratch, whatever, but he still had to replace them, and didn't, now we have our oh so surprising injury crisis #453, and lookie here, we're lacking squad depth in several positions and have to plug in players out of position and throw in youngsters. I was sure after 3 transfer windows he'd have the team prepared for a big season but after the joke of an end to last summer he goes into the season with Januzaj as our no.10, oh so he has real faith in this new setup? Nope, loaned out after the first month and we change our first 11 again. This just tells me he was making it up as he went along and didn't have a clue as to what his first 11 was. We go into the season with Rooney and Martial as our only true striker options? How shocking that injuries/form would make this a problem. The team he has that aren't performing are his own doing and I have no sympathy for him, and I honestly would not trust another 100/200m with him again.
And of course we have all the excuses from certain fans at the ready. Whether it's Rooney's/Mata's/Memphis's/Carrick's fault, or the whole team not being good enough to form a single attack, us lacking a Messi/Ronaldo/Neymar to do it all on their own, or all those individual mistakes, or all those mean midtable sides coming to play for a draw, or the referees, or bad luck or whatever, it's usually not HIS fault. I saw this under Moyes, he had the whole school of 'it's not my fault' out in force, it's complete whataboutery and just avoids the main problem. So many of our fans are (once again) more than happy to throw the whole team under the bus just to avoid possibly blaming the manager for these shite performances, utterly bizarre. We've seen an out of form Rooney become the sole scapegoat for this place, completely saving LVG from the flak he gets. I can't blame Van Gaal for every little thing gone wrong under his tenure, but I can say that the buck does indeed stop with him, and if he can't sufficiently get the best out of this team and get them performing then I don't believe he should continue as manager. Things could change, we could beat Wolsfurg and get our act together, but it's hard to be positive about this team, and it's manager right now.
The pro LVG posters are going to slaughter you mate, but I can't fault what you're saying at all. Very good post!
Don't think we gain anything from sacking him now. We have best defence in the league, not even close, and if he can work out how to score a goal a game, whether it's some mystery combo of player he hasn't tried, like last season, or a january signing, then we have a legitimate title challenge on.
Yes his squad management is a bit strange, but this is what he's done at other clubs in the past and it's worked. 14 players and then stacked young kids on top, build the spirit and team over a few years.
I''d almost be inclined to keep him next summer too until august and then sack him, he has done very good early business the last two summers, although the late business has been poor
Yes his squad management is a bit strange, but this is what he's done at other clubs in the past and it's worked. 14 players and then stacked young kids on top, build the spirit and team over a few years.
I''d almost be inclined to keep him next summer too until august and then sack him, he has done very good early business the last two summers, although the late business has been poor
Can anyone explain to me why our genius took Blind off corners today even though he showed in just one game or two that he is clearly the best in the club when it comes to corner taking?
Also why did he play Mcnair on RB when he actually had Blind who played half of his career as a fullback so we could play actual fullbacks on their natural positions and McNair on his natural position?
I tried to think of a valid reason for these two today but I couldn't come up with anything else apart that he intentionally wants us to be worse than we are. There is simply no other answers for these two questions.
There is also the Schweinsteiger's substition, but I am sure there isn't person in the world who could understand and explain that. Not even King Louis himself.
Also why did he play Mcnair on RB when he actually had Blind who played half of his career as a fullback so we could play actual fullbacks on their natural positions and McNair on his natural position?
I tried to think of a valid reason for these two today but I couldn't come up with anything else apart that he intentionally wants us to be worse than we are. There is simply no other answers for these two questions.
There is also the Schweinsteiger's substition, but I am sure there isn't person in the world who could understand and explain that. Not even King Louis himself.
Smalling looks better now
I wasnt surprised by the Schweini sub at all - he has taken off one of the DMs in several games to go to a more attacking formation and since Carrick didnt start it was obviously going to be Bastian.
Did think it was a strange decision to go with McNair at fullback though
He wants to have one centre back left footed and another right footed... But Its looks like he as no problem to use a right footed player in the DL position.
The only reason I can see of the Schweinsteiger's substition is that we need him fresh for the game on Tuesday.
That would certainly turn things if the players feel the reason for the poor attacking play is LvG, although today it was down to their lack of quality in front of goal.
I always thought the ex player brigade were so noisy because we sacked Fergie's choice and went with a foreigner rather than their boy, Rio's response when asked by Lineker if the players liked LvG the other week made me wonder if there was more to it though.
Can't say I noticed but in truth I was numb watching that half and actually barely reacted when Schweini scored, so if they were feeling like me......
That's true but Moyes was somewhat protected by Fergie's request to the fans at the end of the previous season.
That's true, but I'd also add that despite Moyes being rubbish, at least he tried. He gave Januzaj free-reign and to an extent our play wasn't nearly as lethargic as it is under LVG currently. All this after we spent close to 200m in transfers. Worrying. A team like ours shouldn't be scoring so little, philosophy or not, it's all just so bland.
I wonder how much these 11 v 11 practice matches take out of the players. Certainly some of the older players look to be tired and needing to be subbed.
EDIT: I may be just trying to find excuses here. Some like Bastain look tired.
EDIT: I may be just trying to find excuses here. Some like Bastain look tired.
Plus, Moyes was in his FIRST season. There's no reason to believe that the patience/pity/blind hope that protected him from a more universally negative reaction would've lasted into a second season.
What we're seeing more and more now is that people who were initially patient with LVG are turning on him. The same would've undoubtedly happened with Moyes had he been given more time and failed to deliver the goods.
But that clip is fake. It can't be that Scholes was passing backwards! This clip is missing the guy who runs past five defenders and ramming the ball into the top corner.
He definitely must take criticism for selling all our strikers and not adequately replacing them. He put a lot of faith in Rooney (who has been playing as a #10 a lot recently anyway) and is now expecting a lot from Martial. So he only has himself to blame.
I didn't think we were that bad. We created chances and just couldn't finish them. But when it is your sixth 0-0 for the season or whatever then you can't get too much slack because the players missed some chances, clearly his system is stifling the team.
Some of his decisions were strange too. At home to West Ham, who like to sit in and defend, and he plays McNair at RB instead of Young? Sure, Young can be frustrating and inconsistent but at least he gets forward. Also, with Fellaini playing you would think that would make even more sense for Young to play because his crosses might actually find somebody. Van Gaal just seems to make really obvious errors.
I didn't think we were that bad. We created chances and just couldn't finish them. But when it is your sixth 0-0 for the season or whatever then you can't get too much slack because the players missed some chances, clearly his system is stifling the team.
Some of his decisions were strange too. At home to West Ham, who like to sit in and defend, and he plays McNair at RB instead of Young? Sure, Young can be frustrating and inconsistent but at least he gets forward. Also, with Fellaini playing you would think that would make even more sense for Young to play because his crosses might actually find somebody. Van Gaal just seems to make really obvious errors.
Few times I thought the team fancied Blind to take a couple of pops outside the box.
I thought Blind was better played at CB this time, at least he gives you a better probability of distributing the ball from back. Darmian did ok at left back, he played their in his previous club as well.
Schweinsteiger looked out of gas, wasn't surprised he got subbed. Who else can you bring on in that case except Carrick?
1. Blind was taking corners. There were 6 corners today. Looks like Blind took 4 of them the other 2 were Mata who wanted to take them quickly.
2. We've split the Blind/Smalling partnership up before and looked signicantly weaker. Conceded goals because of it too.
3. Schweinsteiger was fecked and needed taking off.
Did you even watch the game?
You said it.
When?
Jones & Smalling have conceded a single goal together as a CB partnership. Rojo gave away a stupid penalty against Leicester at CB but that was about it. Blind almost gave away a stupid goal today if it wasn't for De Gea stopping a clear 1v1.
How do you guys have the balls to make up complete and utter shite to support a wrong point, that can be proven completely false by about 2 minutes of googling?
Fantastic post.
Good post. I agree with most of what you have to say.
I will say that, in my opinion, United created way more than enough chances to win the game today, and many others in recent weeks. Despite the injuries and lack of squad depth, we should have scored today - in fact, we should have scored a few. Van Gaal can't be on the field to put the ball in the net. The blame rests firmly with the players as far as that goes. The players should be embarrassed, quite frankly. Van Gaal has been quite reserved with his public comments in that regard, but behind closed doors I sure hope he's ripped into a few of the players. This is a stretch in our schedule where we really needed to make hay, and we're letting it slip through our fingers. A very winnable league title is being thrown away. While there's plenty of blame to go around, the players cannot be excused.
What I really blame Van Gaal for is the manner in which he's gone about building the team. He's depleted the first team of many experienced squad players. That, in and of itself, is fine, provided you replace them. He's seemingly simply chosen not to. Going into the season with the limited attacking options we had was a mind-numbingly foolish decision. It's not his first season in England. He would know that the rigours of a long, tough season brings plenty of injuries and requires strength in depth. He certainly had more than enough injuries to cope with last season. It was a very obvious lesson which he did not learn. He's relied too heavily on players who, even at the start of the season, were clearly past their prime (Rooney being the most obvious example). He's also put many other young players in very unfair positions, counting on them to play vital roles despite their lack of experience (Martial and Mata illustrate this).
While I appreciate your comments about another big splash in the coming transfer window, I fear that if we don't spend our season will simply follow the same pattern. I do think that a couple of strong additions in attack could completely transform this team. It's unlikely that those players would be available in January, however. Forget the Bale, Ronaldo, Muller and Neymar nonsense - well struggle to close deals for players like Mane or Mahrez until the summer.
It's reaching a point where United and van Gaal need to part ways at the end of the season and throw the kitchen sink and some more at Pep Guardiola or maybe Carlo Ancelotti. This league is wide open for anybody, but United aren't going to score enough to goals to win enough games. Their defense is fine, but you won't win if you can't score.
The bold part is the nail on the head. Martial was bought on the last day and no way was LVG planning to keep him as an important part of his team this season. But he has had to because he could not have planned this season worse.
After reading his post match comments, I would want him out now although I voted for the end of the season option. The guy has no clue. He claims we need a Suarez or Aguero type striker. Which team does not?! Blaming players or wanting more players is all he does. Never any blame on himself stifling the shit out of the ones he already has.
I am sure he would turn this Barca team into a dull team as well if he got the charge of that team tomorrow.
I am sure he would turn this Barca team into a dull team as well if he got the charge of that team tomorrow.
He didn't bring Suarez and Aguero up, the journo asked him if he thought they would score goals in this team, he said yes but that nothing is certain.
Absolutely spot on. This mans like the emperors clothes, at some point people are going to see this is just complete and utter garbage. We are no further on than under Moyes, the issues are different but LVG approach at present is like a drunk trying to find his way home on a Saturday night. For me, get him out, thank him for the improvement in Smalling, and Giggs can steer the ship with Butt until the summer when we'll have to look at the whole thing again.
@Arytonblue : A block of text but a very good one.
I agree with the second part regarding Moyes. Regarding the first part, I think We didn't have a choice. No one else was available and appointing someone not experienced at the highest level could have been disastrous.
Jose!
Players don't like taking the blame. You could see it coming to a head. LvG starts blaming the players and vice versa.
Watched the game yesterday with my West Ham-supporting brother. He doesn't watch us play much. He lasted 75 mins before he fell asleep in the armchair, poor thing.
Watching us shouldn't be a chore. It should be excitement, winning games by outscoring the opposition. Not keeping the ball so the oppo's can't score.
For the people saying; "Uh, LvG can't make them miss chances/The players aren't good enough" etc: It's clear there's a intimidation factor there. Our manager has put fear into our players. They're not allowed to make mistakes. They just aren't allowed the freedom to be creative. Natural instinct has been coached out of them. I've said it before and many others also have; they're tactical robots.
I consider myself a fairly patient man. I voted 3 in the above poll. However, just can't imagine watching this style of play for another season. If we have a chance to hire Pep in the summer we'd be absolute idiots not to pay of the remainder of LvG's contract.
Watching us shouldn't be a chore. It should be excitement, winning games by outscoring the opposition. Not keeping the ball so the oppo's can't score.
For the people saying; "Uh, LvG can't make them miss chances/The players aren't good enough" etc: It's clear there's a intimidation factor there. Our manager has put fear into our players. They're not allowed to make mistakes. They just aren't allowed the freedom to be creative. Natural instinct has been coached out of them. I've said it before and many others also have; they're tactical robots.
I consider myself a fairly patient man. I voted 3 in the above poll. However, just can't imagine watching this style of play for another season. If we have a chance to hire Pep in the summer we'd be absolute idiots not to pay of the remainder of LvG's contract.
We are shit, we aren't improving and I'm sick of it. I can't remember the last time I saw a one-two around the opposition box, a give and go. No combination play at all. Has to go in the summer.
That's what is painful. The league is an open goal this season. Our rivals are losing matches left, right and center but we can't score so keep drawing.
All doom and gloom, this thread. Am I seriously the only one who thinks that we are on the right path and slowly improving? I mean, sure, we are having a frustrating few weeks now but the curve goes up and down in the short-term, that's normal for me.
Memphis and Fellaini yesterday.