Manchester United proved in FA Cup final they don't understand fan culture

[ZupZup]

I can't disagree with anything he's said in that article... the atmosphere was poor. It's just a stark difference between the club's away support which is fantastic and the home support which seems to only get vocal for the big matches (and that tends to be the usual parts of the ground... Stretford End, East stand and the singing section).

Derby away was absolutely brilliant. 90 minutes of non-stop loud singing from 5,000 travelling fans... it was bouncing! It's a shame, but there really should be a way of getting the fans who want to make a noise, stand and sing all grouped together for big matches like the Cup Final. Having everyone scattered around the ground amongst the less vocal fans does nothing to help the atmosphere at all.

 

[Kraftwerker]

I thought the Palace end was a bit cringe when I first got in. A really tedious repetitive song over and over. No one can tell me United don't have much better chants than this mob (and most southern clubs). However, by the end of the game I left pretty impressed with them. They didn't stop the whole game and were bouncing and singing in tandem, albeit mostly a shite chant.

If we could get something similar but with our repertoire of chants, it would be incredible. Difficult to see how it happens though. A good start would be to mob the hardcore away support together at all times. There's no doubt our fans weren't great at Wembley, but a lot of it is down to circumstance. Fans fatigued with Van Gaal, a game against a 'lesser' club that you're just expected to win, and a corporate soulless bowl of a stadium with fans spread all over the place.

 

[markelphick]

Agree 100% with the article, I was there at Wembley and even I thought our fans were poor, I've never seen us so quiet. Palace completely put us to shame in that respect. I thought the atmosphere was so much better at the semi-final v Everton.

 

[3Crowns]

I don't think anyone that was there can actually disagree with the article. It has been a similar experience every time I have been to Wembley to watch United.

The main difference this time was the nervous and somewhat negative energy in the crowd when the match started. It seemed that a significant portion of the crowd was expecting a rubbish performance from United. Personally I tried to sing and make some noise but I did find it hard to shed the negativity that was built up throughout the season.

 

[McLovin]

not sure why Mitten gets so much stick on here?

what he writes here is completely right - the atmosphere was not great

However the solution is not that difficult at all - Palace kept one block aside and called it the 'singing section', we now have a singing section at Old Trafford and it has worked very well so there is no reason for us not to do that at Wembley

The bigger problem is the number of tickets, many of Uniteds usual vocal support could not get a ticket, whereas Palace have much lower demand so pretty much everyone gets sorted

Spot on.

 

[pierrethesnack]

the stereotype about Redcafe being the internet home of the gloryhunting, armchair element in our support.

I've never seen anyone say this?

 

[JustAFan]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/24/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-global-fanbase

Anothe article indicating a huge rift between match going fans (who the writer seems to insist are all against Jose) and the "TV fans" who are supposedly the ones backing Jose. Then it swerves off into some rant about how unimportant match going fans have become, attendance problems, etc. Almost like he had 2 different half articles and combined them.

 

[izec]

The internet destroyed football.

 

[Striker10]

I've never seen anyone say this?

Nah mate that's alternate reality A. This is alternate reality B

 

[Lurpak99]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/24/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-global-fanbase

Anothe article indicating a huge rift between match going fans (who the writer seems to insist are all against Jose) and the "TV fans" who are supposedly the ones backing Jose. Then it swerves off into some rant about how unimportant match going fans have become, attendance problems, etc. Almost like he had 2 different half articles and combined them.

That's bullshit surely?

 

[Wumminator]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/24/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-global-fanbase

Anothe article indicating a huge rift between match going fans (who the writer seems to insist are all against Jose) and the "TV fans" who are supposedly the ones backing Jose. Then it swerves off into some rant about how unimportant match going fans have become, attendance problems, etc. Almost like he had 2 different half articles and combined them.

Brilliant.

I think that's certainly true. Id certainly suggest there's a difference in opinion. I'm not happy about Jose. Neither are some of the lads I go with. People on here (from other countries) have been criticising the home fans for supporting the team too much.

 

[Wumminator]

Honestly that Guardian article is fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I've been going to Old Trafford and singing songs about hating Mourinho every week for last ten or so years. My fondest memories include "Mourinho are you listening" and sending him packing.

On here there seems to be a culture of "I can't wait ". I don't get it at all.

 

[SteveJ]

I'd say that it's flawed thinking to compare such an untamed arena like social media with matchday fandom, and it's way too easy to falsely denigrate or elevate one over the other.

 

[#07]

Honestly that Guardian article is fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I've been going to Old Trafford and singing songs about hating Mourinho every week for last ten or so years. My fondest memories include "Mourinho are you listening" and sending him packing.

On here there seems to be a culture of "I can't wait ". I don't get it at all.

There were people singing Jose's name on Saturday evening!

It's not as clear cut as saying match going fans don't want him, glory hunters do. There are plenty of season ticket holders and members on the caf who back Mou.

Of course nobody has forgotten the stuff from 10 years ago. Chelsea were the big bad and Mou the ring leader. That's the past though. It's not like he was the Liverpool manager.

I can't help but be relieved at what I think he will bring to United. Hopefully now we'll stop being a soft touch, go back to being hated, adored but never ignored.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Brilliant.

I think that's certainly true. Id certainly suggest there's a difference in opinion. I'm not happy about Jose. Neither are some of the lads I go with. People on here (from other countries) have been criticising the home fans for supporting the team too much.

Why are you against Mourinho to this great extent?

 

[JustAFan]

Why are you against Mourinho to this great extent?

Read his tag line.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

Read his tag line.

There's no way an act of such wummery could go on for so long. I genuinely think he believes what he says.

 

[Wumminator]

Read his tag line.

You're right mate I've been wumming this forum for six years.

 

[Minimalist]

Honestly that Guardian article is fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I've been going to Old Trafford and singing songs about hating Mourinho every week for last ten or so years. My fondest memories include "Mourinho are you listening" and sending him packing.

On here there seems to be a culture of "I can't wait ". I don't get it at all.

Seriously?

That speaks volumes. You're not just against Mourinho - you're one of those 'supporters'.

 

[SteveJ]

Like Twigg, I don't really want Mourinho - I've been a critic of his for years - though I'm prepared to give him a chance, which is only fair; in my case, though, I just wanted an end to the Moyes reign and LVG's soulless United. Further, for me it's not solely about our last two managers: our recent lack of top-tier success says a lot about our more established players, and is a case of chickens coming home to roost.

 

[SirAF]

Honestly that Guardian article is fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I've been going to Old Trafford and singing songs about hating Mourinho every week for last ten or so years. My fondest memories include "Mourinho are you listening" and sending him packing.

On here there seems to be a culture of "I can't wait ". I don't get it at all.

Surley it can't be that hard to get, even if you don't agree. Most people would say that Mourinho is United's best chance of getting back to winning ways now - why on earth would supporters not be yearning for that?

 

[Minimalist]

Like Twigg, I don't really want Mourinho - I've been a critic of his for years - though I'm prepared to give him a chance, which is only fair; in my case, though, I just wanted an end to the Moyes reign and LVG's soulless United. Further, for me it's not solely about our last two managers: our recent lack of top-tier success says a lot about our more established players, and is a case of chickens coming home to roost, IMO.

Which manager is flawless though? I think that's the biggest issue here and why I can't really fathom the hatred towards Mourinho from some. All managers have their weak spots, some larger than others.

Mourinho is one of the few managers still active that has very little and most of his flaws aren't restrictive with regard to him winning trophies (playing style means feck all if it puts Barcelona out of Europe...just ask Liverpool).

Totally agree though about it being a lot to do with poor transfers and the make up of the squad - something I have much more faith in Mourinho to set right than most others.

 

[NoLogo]

Like Twigg, I don't really want Mourinho - I've been a critic of his for years - though I'm prepared to give him a chance, which is only fair; in my case, though, I just wanted an end to the Moyes reign and LVG's soulless United. Further, for me it's not solely about our last two managers: our recent lack of top-tier success says a lot about our more established players, and is a case of chickens coming home to roost.

Very well said. He is going to be our manager now and whether we personally like him or not shouldn't matter too much as long as he does good work with the team and I hope he does. Still would have prefered someone young like Poch who could have build here something in the long run but I'm also aware how important it is for us to get back among the top teams in England and Europe and if Mou has proven one thing then it's that he can get almost any team there.

 

[SteveJ]

Which manager is flawless though? I think that's the biggest issue here and why I can't really fathom the hatred towards Mourinho from some. All managers have their weak spots, some larger than others.

Everyone has their own personal take on some matters Mourinho - me, I can't stand aspects of his behaviour (which, admittedly, has little or nothing to do with his managemental abilities).

 

[Boycott]

I don't like Mourinho either. But the fact we're appointing him three years after the position first came available and choosing a romantic appointment in David Moyes ("cut from the same cloth") and having many public figures relating to the club including SAF going for another romantic appointment in Giggs tells a story. We wanted to avoid turning to Mourinho but things have turned so bad we've no choice but to swallow our pride.

It's like a weak, bony guy who is really struggling to open a jar and gets offered by a strong and muscular bloke he really detests to do it for him. You don't want to watch him succeed as it makes you humiliated so you insist you'll do it yourself. 10 minutes pass and having tried the spoon, a knife and a rubber cloth it's still tight. That bloke returns, takes it out of your hands and instantly opens it. The smug look on his face warrants a beating. But reluctantly you nod your head as you can't bare say thanks.

 

[Verminator]

I don't like Mourinho either. But the fact we're appointing him three years after the position first came available and choosing a romantic appointment in David Moyes ("cut from the same cloth") and having many public figures relating to the club including SAF going for another romantic appointment in Giggs tells a story. We wanted to avoid turning to Mourinho but things have turned so bad we've no choice but to swallow our pride.

It's like a weak, bony guy who is really struggling to open a jar and gets offered by a strong and muscular bloke he really detests to do it for him. You don't want to watch him succeed as it makes you humiliated so you insist you'll do it yourself. 10 minutes pass and having tried the spoon, a knife and a rubber cloth it's still tight. That bloke returns, takes it out of your hands and instantly opens it. The smug look on his face warrants a beating. But reluctantly you nod your head as you can't bare say thanks.

Jesus!
Would you like to talk to someone?

 

[devilish]

Sometimes I feel that I'm reading Pride and Prejudice and Romeo and Juliet and not posts about football. Jeez some of the people are way too emotional and romantic.

We're getting a manager whose a proven winner and whose considered one of the top 5 managers in the world. Most fans would be thrilled about that

 

[Lennon7]

I thought the caf loved Mitten? Clearly not

 

[SteveJ]

Sometimes I feel that I'm reading Pride and Prejudice and Romeo and Juliet and not posts about football. Jeez some of the people are way too emotional and romantic.

We're getting a manager whose a proven winner and whose considered one of the top 5 managers in the world. Most fans would be thrilled about that

It's just as valid to discuss José's poorer shenanigans as it is to discuss, say, Carlo's nicer traits - both are generally-accepted aspects of the people involved, hence the debates.

And never mind the more 'precious' posts you mention - have you any idea how f*cking tedious it is to constantly read how (for instance) "Keane will f*cking sort them out" - yes, that's Roy Keane who barely threw an actual punch in anger in his career - or "All our players are soft as shit"? It's like reading how the Caf was amazing before all us newbie metrosexuals arrived, when most of what I've read of the old days consists of shit like "You*re a c*unt, hur hur" & "No - you're a c*nt". Big whoop.

 

[Boycott]

Sometimes I feel that I'm reading Pride and Prejudice and Romeo and Juliet and not posts about football. Jeez some of the people are way too emotional and romantic.

We're getting a manager whose a proven winner and whose considered one of the top 5 managers in the world. Most fans would be thrilled about that

I don't doubt his coaching pedigree. I just dislike his character and that is years in the making. Him becoming Utd manager won't automatically undo that.

 

[VP]

Honestly that Guardian article is fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I've been going to Old Trafford and singing songs about hating Mourinho every week for last ten or so years. My fondest memories include "Mourinho are you listening" and sending him packing.

On here there seems to be a culture of "I can't wait ". I don't get it at all.

How can you, the eternal optimist, not be excited by a new manager? And given how excited you were by LVG's shite football, you're going to go mental with Mourinho.

Like Fergie, he'll win matches and wind up the opposition - and like Fergie, the matchgoing fans are going to adore him.

 

[hobbers]

All you need to beat Palace in support is a drum and a large number of neanderthals.

 

[devilish]

I don't doubt his coaching pedigree. I just dislike his character and that is years in the making. Him becoming Utd manager won't automatically undo that.

Lets be honest. The top 5 managers in the world are probably Pep, Ancelotti, Mou, Conte and Simeone. Conte is a top manager but he's nowhere near to Mou

Character wise Pep is more obsessed with philosophy then LVG and he would either force it into everyone's throat or leave (he will leave just the same, its only a matter of time). Conte is a mix between the typical old Italian school manager were the manager is some sort of God who is always right and a cry baby who will bitch and threaten to leave because the club hasn't bought him the toy he wanted (in Juve's case Cuadrado). Simeone on the other hand want to remain with Athletico, which you can't really blame him for as he's building a legacy there.


Out of the bunch Ancelotti was, in my opinion, the best for us. He's a nice lad, whose used to tip toe himself into top clubs without hurting anyone's feelings and yet still win trophies. If the guy could stick to Berlusconi snr, Berlusconi jnr (the female version of daddy) and Galliani then he surely can keep the failed Preston manager, SAF and the one who feels that he's entitled for the top job because SAF likes him and Gaz got his chance with Valencia happy. Mou will never show that amount of patience and jeez he loves being an arse.

Having said that all the above is meaningless because Conte had signed to Chelsea (and I cant see him being successful there), Pep had signed with a squad that will play CL football (and are in a better shape then us) while Simeone and Ancelotti are leading much better squads then we are at the moment.

Mou is not perfect but he's the best we could have gotten. He's a proven winner and he knows the EPL enough to know that philosophy and processes won't work.

 

[DuncanEd]

This.
Andy Mitten is a lot more in-touch with match-goin fan culture than most on this forum.
His article is spot on.

I have always found that at Wembley, the atmospere/noise from United fans tends to peak too early, usually in the pubs about an hour before kick-off.

Such a bizarre overreaction to a perfectly valid article - the sort of reaction that reinforces the stereotype about Redcafe being the internet home of the gloryhunting, armchair element in our support.

Both 100% my views and impression of the FA cup crowd and redcafe.

Anyone who was in the crowds knows it was absolute shite in there until we scored and Palace put us to absolute shame with the display and chanting. Even when they walked around with the cup it was polite applause mixed with the odd "wahey". And that was from the people who stayed on.

 

[RK]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2016/may/24/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-global-fanbase

Anothe article indicating a huge rift between match going fans (who the writer seems to insist are all against Jose) and the "TV fans" who are supposedly the ones backing Jose. Then it swerves off into some rant about how unimportant match going fans have become, attendance problems, etc. Almost like he had 2 different half articles and combined them.

I think the article is in the right direction. I can't back it up with a peer-reviewed analysis, but I believe that match-going fans on average are far less enamoured with the idea of Mourinho.

 

[Lurpak99]

Brilliant.

I think that's certainly true. Id certainly suggest there's a difference in opinion. I'm not happy about Jose. Neither are some of the lads I go with. People on here (from other countries) have been criticising the home fans for supporting the team too much.

I'm not a season ticket holder, but I've always hated the idea of Mourinho being our manager, mainly because he's an arrogant cnut, an opinion I've had of him ever since we met Porto in 2004. Having said that, I feel we're in a desperate place now, we can't continue fecking around if we want to keep our status as one of the big clubs in more areas than just making money, and while I'm wary of the fact that last season could be the first signs of Mourinho in decline, I don't see us having other choices at this point.

As I've said, I don't like Mourinho either, and I can't stand the love he gets on the Caf, but the most important thing for me is that United is winning. Not because I'm a glory hunter who can't live with supporting a rubbish team, but because I'm a fan who wants my team to win, and isn't that the purpose of being a fan, that you want your team to win? If that takes Mourinho, then so be it, and if not, then atleast people's ball licking of the guy can stop.

 

[lem8sh]

Valid and well written article, the reaction from the majority on here is strange to say the least.

 

[lem8sh]

Honestly that Guardian article is fantastic. Absolutely brilliant. I've been going to Old Trafford and singing songs about hating Mourinho every week for last ten or so years. My fondest memories include "Mourinho are you listening" and sending him packing.

On here there seems to be a culture of "I can't wait ". I don't get it at all.

That was a brilliant chant in fairness.

 

[Wumminator]

I'm not a season ticket holder, but I've always hated the idea of Mourinho being our manager, mainly because he's an arrogant cnut, an opinion I've had of him ever since we met Porto in 2004. Having said that, I feel we're in a desperate place now, we can't continue fecking around if we want to keep our status as one of the big clubs in more areas than just making money, and while I'm wary of the fact that last season could be the first signs of Mourinho in decline, I don't see us having other choices at this point.

As I've said, I don't like Mourinho either, and I can't stand the love he gets on the Caf, but the most important thing for me is that United is winning. Not because I'm a glory hunter who can't live with supporting a rubbish team, but because I'm a fan who wants my team to win, and isn't that the purpose of being a fan, that you want your team to win? If that takes Mourinho, then so be it, and if not, then atleast people's ball licking of the guy can stop.

Yeah, that's fair enough. I can see it might be viewed as a good appointment pragmatically, but that's not what I really follow football for.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Yeah, that's fair enough. I can see it might be viewed as a good appointment pragmatically, but that's not what I really follow football for.

It's a question of perspective. It's certainly pragmatic and a decision that hammers home that United is really just another big club after being relatively insulated from the modern game by Fergie's 26 year reign. I'm by no means delighted with Mourinho and it will most likely end in tears after a few trophies have been won. But I don't see any real alternatives (a damning indictment on United's managerial planning).And, going back to perspective, in terms of the Plan B, I'd view Giggs' appointment as cronyism unworthy of United rather than something romantic.