Social cohesion post-Brexit: let 'em rot?

[Mozza]

I've been wondering this ever since the vote. My normal response would be to want to tackle the problem with the standard tools of the left: infrastructure investment, education, wealth redistribution etc, but I don't think it's going to be possible to win an election from the left in Britain for a long time.

Labour's traditional working-class voters in the north have deserted them on the referendum. Scotland is voting SNP and could well leave the UK. And above all the party has awful leadership and doesn't know what it is trying to accomplish.

I have no good answers right now.

I think Corbyns policies are largely the right ones when it comes to work, states need to effectivly unionise so business has no choice but to provide decent working conditions or they cant trade across Europe. However its not an easy policy to reduce to a sentace or two. He's also a personality vacumn

 

[Jippy]

Well they bleated about the 4000 jobs they lost when the Teeside Steel works was shut but no one gave a feck.

Of course when the London banks were destroyed by their own greed avarice stupidity and corruption the govt put billions of pounds of the Sunderland, Yorkshire Cornwall and Welsh tax payers money into saving them because they were too important to go to the wall. I do wonder whether the sense of entitlement of people in those banking service centres wanting more and more can always be met by honest hard working people in the rest of this country. We should make sure we never give them a say again in anything in case they vote a way London does not like.

Could we really say feck you Thatcher style and let the banks fold destroying London's economy. Oh silly me we should stay in the EU even if the whole Brexit idea is lead and funded by city types and the London Murdoch media fed by the vile vomit inducing sycophancy of the city.

I do wonder if the UK will survive if people from Sunderland who work day in day out in the most productive car plant in the world don't tug their forelocks to their betters in London and admit the only reason they have jobs is because people in London let them have jobs. Once they understand this it should be plain sailing to feck them in the ass forever.

Interesting response that underlines the divide. Some of those banks were Scottish and regional you know. Annoying thing is I am northern and my generation at home would rather sit around and moan about stuff, do feck all, then blame the north-south divide.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Literally absolutely none of that whatsoever has anything to do with the EU.

It is a response to the opening post of this thread though,

"
Brexit fallout is becoming a mega-thread. What interests me now is how the UK moves forward.
Sunderland voted 61% in favour of out. They'll be first to moan if they lose their 6,700 Nissan jobs.
Ditto Yorkshire, Cornwall and Wales bleating about their lost subsidies when all strongly voted out.
How do you get past this? Their sense of entitlement is they want the same or more. Can we really say feck you Thatcher-style and throw thousands more on the scrapheap.
Do wonder if the UK will survive as we know it. No unity."

So try to understand the concept of threads and keep up.

 

[Jippy]

It is a response to the opening post of this thread though,

"
Brexit fallout is becoming a mega-thread. What interests me now is how the UK moves forward.
Sunderland voted 61% in favour of out. They'll be first to moan if they lose their 6,700 Nissan jobs.
Ditto Yorkshire, Cornwall and Wales bleating about their lost subsidies when all strongly voted out.
How do you get past this? Their sense of entitlement is they want the same or more. Can we really say feck you Thatcher-style and throw thousands more on the scrapheap.
Do wonder if the UK will survive as we know it. No unity."

So try to understand the concept of threads and keep up.

I think it's a legit thread that is based on the vote, but takes it forwards. More hoping my own dour take on our outlook is overdone tbh.

 

[HabeasC]

Well they bleated about the 4000 jobs they lost when the Teeside Steel works was shut but no one gave a feck.

Of course when the London banks were destroyed by their own greed avarice stupidity and corruption the govt put billions of pounds of the Sunderland, Yorkshire Cornwall and Welsh tax payers money into saving them because they were too important to go to the wall. I do wonder whether the sense of entitlement of people in those banking service centres wanting more and more can always be met by honest hard working people in the rest of this country. We should make sure we never give them a say again in anything in case they vote a way London does not like.

Could we really say feck you Thatcher style and let the banks fold destroying London's economy. Oh silly me we should stay in the EU even if the whole Brexit idea is lead and funded by city types and the London Murdoch media fed by the vile vomit inducing sycophancy of the city.

I do wonder if the UK will survive if people from Sunderland who work day in day out in the most productive car plant in the world don't tug their forelocks to their betters in London and admit the only reason they have jobs is because people in London let them have jobs. Once they understand this it should be plain sailing to feck them in the ass forever.

You have a point in as much as there is a massive disconnect between London and the rest of the UK, bar the other big cities. People feel like Westminster and the 'elite' doesn't care about them.

That is exactly why voting to leave was a horrendous idea for them. The subsidies, workers' rights, the business attraction that supplied so many jobs. Also the opportunity for working class students to study abroad through the ERASMUS program. The projects by the EU that helped revive dying areas.

Do you really think that the conservatives, especially BoJo and Gove will have the best interests of miners in Wales or farmers in the Yorkshire? They really do not.

Also bailing out the banks was important for everyone. If they went under, 'normal' people would lose their money. If we don't bail out the banks we all suffer, but if we don't bail out steel works which, unfortunately, are no longer competitive in the global market compared to Chinese steel, the economic impact for us all is much less. What needs to be done is give people the opportunity to re-skill in areas that we are good at. Give people the opportunity to educate themselves or learn skills. That is the biggest mistake made when industries fold because of an innate lack of competitiveness.

I'm coming across as a massive Tory here, which is the exact opposite of what I am but it is simple economics. I can understand why people are pissed off but things are done for a reason, education and the explanation is the issue. When the Sun and the Daily Mail are the two most sold papers and are sold overwhelmingly to disenfranchised working-class people and when they spew a hatred, blatant lies and promote anti-intellectualism it is not a surprise that people are pissed off. However, their protest vote against London, against the 'elite' has just ushered in a more right wing and more elite set of politicians, as well as fecking up the prospects of my generation.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

Interesting response that underlines the divide. Some of those banks were Scottish and regional you know. Annoying thing is I am northern and my generation at home would rather sit around and moan about stuff, do feck all, then blame the north-south divide.

I know I'm venting but Christ Jippy I voted remain and Nigel and Boris are not from Sunderland. This whole thing is a conservative invention and the people they have brought on board are more victims than villans. You guys, are the ones who thought the whole fecking thing up, but lets stick it to the poor saps you got to believe the bullshit, they are from the North.

 

[Rory 7]

I have two friends I can't bring myself to talk to at the moment. This is gonna cause enormous division.

That is really interesting @Rado_N , one of my oldest and best friends and I have fallen out (without actually falling out) with each other over this topic. It's incredibly hard to find any common ground when Nationalism comes into the equation....

 

[SteveJ]

This notion of "f*ck 'em, let 'em rot" might have some merit if everyone in Wales, Sunderland etc actually voted to leave; as it is, thousands like me voted to stay and yet we Remainers will suffer regardless of that fact. We lament the lazy thinking which led to us leaving the EU yet many of you can't be arsed to avoid the simple mistake of generalisation.

 

[Don't Kill Bill]

You have a point in as much as there is a massive disconnect between London and the rest of the UK, bar the other big cities. People feel like Westminster and the 'elite' doesn't care about them.

That is exactly why voting to leave was a horrendous idea for them. The subsidies, workers' rights, the business attraction that supplied so many jobs. Also the opportunity for working class students to study abroad through the ERASMUS program. The projects by the EU that helped revive dying areas.

Do you really think that the conservatives, especially BoJo and Gove will have the best interests of miners in Wales or farmers in the Yorkshire? They really do not.

Also bailing out the banks was important for everyone. If they went under, 'normal' people would lose their money. If we don't bail out the banks we all suffer, but if we don't bail out steel works which, unfortunately, are no longer competitive in the global market compared to Chinese steel, the economic impact for us all is much less. What needs to be done is give people the opportunity to re-skill in areas that we are good at. Give people the opportunity to educate themselves or learn skills. That is the biggest mistake made when industries fold because of an innate lack of competitiveness.

I'm coming across as a massive Tory here, which is the exact opposite of what I am but it is simple economics. I can understand why people are pissed off but things are done for a reason, education and the explanation is the issue. When the Sun and the Daily Mail are the two most sold papers and are sold overwhelmingly to disenfranchised working-class people and when they spew a hatred, blatant lies and promote anti-intellectualism it is not a surprise that people are pissed off. However, their protest vote against London, against the 'elite' has just ushered in a more right wing and more elite set of politicians, as well as fecking up the prospects of my generation.

I know you mean well but if at this point if you really think anyone in gives a feck about the ERASMUS program you have to be high on something.

The South vote in the Tories over and over again, its the Tories that started this whole thing while the North steadfastly vote against them and then get fecked but its the Norths fault when the most toxic brand of absolute southern bullshit takes hold.

Just fecking shoot us all and put us out of our misery you cock sucking southern excusing wankers.

 

[FlawlessThaw]

This notion of "f*ck 'em, let 'em rot" might have some merit if everyone in Wales, Sunderland etc actually voted to leave; as it is, thousands like me voted to stay and yet we Remainers will suffer regardless of that fact. We lament the lazy thinking which led to us leaving the EU yet many of you can't be arsed to avoid the simple mistake of generalisation.

People are still in shock and in some form of depression as well. When I read that Guardian article about Ebbw Vale, my initial reaction was to be callus and say feck them. Reality is when things die down, most of the people who are angry will realise we can't just abandon regardless of how they voted.

 

[Silva]

Bill for PM

 

[Jippy]

I know I'm venting but Christ Jippy I voted remain and Nigel and Boris are not from Sunderland. This whole thing is a conservative invention and the people they have brought on board are more victims than villans. You guys, are the ones who thought the whole fecking thing up, but lets stick it to the poor saps you got to believe the bullshit, they are from the North.

I'm northern and voted remain too! Sorry, we may be at cross-purposes here. Crazy days with fast-moving threads.

 

[HabeasC]

I know you mean well but if at this point if you really think anyone in gives a feck about the ERASMUS program you have to be high on something.

The South vote in the Tories over and over again, its the Tories that started this whole thing while the North steadfastly vote against them and then get fecked but its the Norths fault when the most toxic brand of absolute southern bullshit takes hold.

Just fecking shoot us all and put us out of our misery you cock sucking southern excusing wankers.

I'm not sure what your argument is and its not a north south thing. Look at Kent and Sussex. They are in the south but voted to leave just as much as a lot of the north did.

All I was saying was that a large amount of the working class vote to leave was a vote against the establishment, Cameron and was massively influenced by papers like the Sun and the Daily Mail. To say that a lot of people weren't well versed in either the consequences of leaving or even the benefits of the EU is not particularly controversial. Erasmus was an example of opportunities lost by exiting. By voting leave, the working class are going to get more fecked by even more right wing politicians. If little attention was paid before, even less will be paid now as, unfortunately, it will have to be the high grossing banking and financial services sector that will help us grow again so the economy will become even more London-centric.

The real problem for the remain vote was that 30 years of politicians and the right wing press blaming the EU and immigration for every little problem could never be overwritten by 3 months of campaigning.

Even though I'm a labour supporter, they have done shite all to connect with working class people and are as much to blame for this as the tories. UKIP were just profiteers.

 

[Parry Gallister]

No. Both remain and leave made it anow us vs them situation which has escalated by the remain reaction to the Leave vote.

The leavers have taken a massive shit in the bed, do you want people to praise them for it? It's still raw, people are going to be pissed off awhile. And the 'patronising' argument is just stupid, if you want to feel that way blame our politicians and government. The EU's done more for the North and Wales in funding and infrastructure than any conservative government have or will.

 

[Andrew~]

I must say, the melodramatic reaction from Remainers to this has so far been incredibly funny and also incredibly disconcerting. It has an almost American feel to it.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

No. Both remain and leave made it anow us vs them situation which has escalated by the remain reaction to the Leave vote.

Well technically with a yes/no binary vote, it is a us vs them situation. There is no middle ground here, tbh.

 

[11101]

I don't think we will have much choice but beg to stay in the EEA. And it will be begging, with some difficult compromises on our part. The regions will see very hard times if we don't stay in, without access to the market we can't afford to keep them propped up.

I am hoping Boris will be the new PM. Love him or hate him he has personality, and that has been lacking from our politicians for years. He will get people interested again.

 

[Wibble]

Brexit fallout is becoming a mega-thread. What interests me now is how the UK moves forward.
Sunderland voted 61% in favour of out. They'll be first to moan if they lose their 6,700 Nissan jobs.
Ditto Yorkshire, Cornwall and Wales bleating about their lost subsidies when all strongly voted out.
How do you get past this? Their sense of entitlement is they want the same or more. Can we really say feck you Thatcher-style and throw thousands more on the scrapheap.
Do wonder if the UK will survive as we know it. No unity.

I think this has hastened the breakup of the UK. I think Scotland will be off if they can force another referendum as many voted to stay part of Britain out of fear of losing access to the EU. Not that an independent Scotland would necessarily get in to the EU, as countries like Spain won't want to encourage their regions to break away. I wonder what will happen to Gibraltar?

 

[Wibble]

I am hoping Boris will be the new PM. Love him or hate him he has personality, and that has been lacking from our politicians for years. He will get people interested again.

Are you insane? You want a lying opportunist sack of shit because he has personality? Someone who picks his opinions according not on what he believes but on what he thinks will be best for him. He was pro-Europe until he saw a chance to usurp Cameron.

The only politicians with convictions these days seem to be clinically insane.

 

[ShadesOfTomato]

Let's just have civil war.

Starks vs Boltons v2.

 

[Rory 7]

Whilst my knee jerk emotional response is 'let's teach the little Englanders a lesson', I realise at a rational level that will only fuel chaos over the medium to long term. I actually think the best option for the EU is to drag the arse out of the Brexit process, hope that by some miracle there is a British U-Turn and pray that no domino effect kicks in elsewhere. I recognise this strategy at EU level is a bit of a punt but you never know what else will happen at a global level in the meantime. Aggression by Russia in the Baltic states, for example, might slow down a Brexit. The EU need to be firm but calm with Britain in my view. The reality is there is no one to negotiate with in London until Cameron goes.

 

[NinjaZombie]

https://theintercept.com/2016/06/25...tablishment-institutions/?comments=1#comments

So much of the reactions to the Leavers in this thread mirror what's written in this article.

Both Brexit and Trumpism are the very, very, wrong answers to legitimate questions that urban elites have refused to ask for thirty years.

 

[Adisa]

I'm angry because people were willfully conned.

 

[Revan]

I'll be brutally honest with you. I'm holding back way more anger than my posts suggest and I don't think I'm alone in thinking that.

I'm white and English and I feel ashamed of being so. My life finally got back to normal following the recession having being made redundant and having a year of being depression following my father and grandmothers death. I changed industry, turned my life around started to feel happy and then bam! Now my job is under threat again. So why the feck should I remain calm and 'deal with this better'.

Would you consider reallocating to some other country (be it on Europe or somewhere else) if things go tits up. I guess that a lot of developed European countries would keep British workers even if they don't get a deal with UK 2 years from now.

I also think that a lot of remainers are quite unhappy not only for economical reasons, but because they feel that they are living in a xenophobic country full of idiots.

I genuinely sympathize with the remainers and in a perfect world, only the leave voters should suffer the consequences of this. Which to a degree is what is going to happen considering that on general they are less educated and so less likely to get good jobs in an economy in recession. But unfortunately a lot of remainers would be affected too, as will be a lot of people outside of UK. I am almost sure that this thing will trigger a global recession (which very likely would have happened even without UK leaving).

 

[Penna]

As an older remainer, I'm sad. My local authority (Sefton) was a remain area. I live in the poorest part of our town - mixed commercial and residential with social and old terraced housing. We are a seaside town and we do have many eastern Europeans here, there is a lot of seasonal work. Every young person I know here has voted leave. The lovely girls who work in the shop next door freely admitted they didn't know what to vote, so they asked their mums. The younger women at the gym also voted against "immigrants".

I don't believe in letting people rot, it's against my religion and my sense of social justice. However, I was so upset on Friday morning that I felt I had to go to Mass and get my head together - I don't usually go during the week. I don't want to become bitter, it's not the right way. It's difficult to stay balanced, though. It's just so disastrous.

A couple of days on, and I still feel all wrong inside. At 58, I've been disappointed lots of times by results of elections, but never anything like this.

 

[#07]

I think the premise of this thread is mistaken. This country is about to get poorer. Even if we wanted to, we won't have the money to replace the EU funding so many communities up and down our country are about to lose. The money these people were promised by the Leave campaign simply does not exist. It is not like the Prime Minister who follows Cameron will be sitting on a pile of cash, which will allow him or her to say 'community X can get this amount, community Y will get none.' There will be no money left for anybody. We will be lucky just to keep the central government funded public services going at their current rate. All of us can look forward to higher council tax as local authorities struggle to make up the shortfall.

 

[Siorac]

I don't think we will have much choice but beg to stay in the EEA. And it will be begging, with some difficult compromises on our part. The regions will see very hard times if we don't stay in, without access to the market we can't afford to keep them propped up.

I am hoping Boris will be the new PM. Love him or hate him he has personality, and that has been lacking from our politicians for years. He will get people interested again.

If you stay in the EEA and accept freedom of movement then this referendum has been a spectacularly pointless and expensive farce that won't even satisfy the leavers.

 

[LuisNaniencia]

This notion of "f*ck 'em, let 'em rot" might have some merit if everyone in Wales, Sunderland etc actually voted to leave; as it is, thousands like me voted to stay and yet we Remainers will suffer regardless of that fact. We lament the lazy thinking which led to us leaving the EU yet many of you can't be arsed to avoid the simple mistake of generalisation.

Angry as I am Steve I completely agree with you. We need to be more aware than ever that people feel incredibly disconnected.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-class-revolt-grieve?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

This article sums up nicely what has happened and what needs to be done now.

Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state. (Chomsky) People have voted for a big red bus with a blatant lie smothered on it instead of listening to experts. It's not because they are racist or stupid, it's because they believe things can't get any worse.

 

[Siorac]

I'm angry because people were willfully conned.

In the age of the internet, it's very hard to sympathise with them. Information is readily available, all you need to do is dig a bit.

Also, anyone who took the Leave campaign seriously after one of the idiots said that 'people have had enough of experts' deserves little sympathy.

 

[Walrus]

I'm going to speak what's on my heart and mind right now - it is probably overly dramatic and I'm sure plenty will raise eyebrows but I can't help how I feel.

<snip>

Great post. Just try to remember that 48% of folk (including most of the younger generations) did vote Remain and - given the reactions - are pretty passionate and furious about what has happened. I include myself firmly in that category.

I'll be brutally honest with you. I'm holding back way more anger than my posts suggest and I don't think I'm alone in thinking that.

I'm white and English and I feel ashamed of being so. My life finally got back to normal following the recession having being made redundant and having a year of being depression following my father and grandmothers death. I changed industry, turned my life around started to feel happy and then bam! Now my job is under threat again. So why the feck should I remain calm and 'deal with this better'.

I share a lot of these sentiments. At my 'low point' about 8 years ago, I was doing door to door sales in Glasgow with a posh English accent, in the middle of winter, living on about £5/week. After that I worked in a phone shop for five years - hardly glamorous, but I worked hard and saved up enough money to go back to Uni and get a Master's degree, I again worked hard and got a distinction (diploma arrived through the post yesterday!), which has allowed me to move into a better job with better prospects.

I thought things had really been looking up this year, but now I feel as though I - and the entire country - has just been hit with a bombshell. I am passionate about this and I am disgusted by the fact that the older generations and the racists (which doesnt mean all leave voters) have essentially fecked things up. There are people who have valid reasons for voting leave - fine. There are plenty of educated and informed people on both sides of the fence, but unfortunately when it comes to the racists, the idiots and the completely uninformed, they all tend to sit on one side of the fence in this debate - and the result of that has been sending shockwaves around the world.

To give an example, someone I work with literally flipped a coin to decide which way to vote (it came up Leave, for what its worth). His vote is worth just as much as anyone elses - as much as mine, as much as the expert economists or those who actually understand the repercussions of this decision. Things like that really do make me question the effectiveness of democracy on issues like this.

Would you consider reallocating to some other country (be it on Europe or somewhere else) if things go tits up. I guess that a lot of developed European countries would keep British workers even if they don't get a deal with UK 2 years from now.

I also think that a lot of remainers are quite unhappy not only for economical reasons, but because they feel that they are living in a xenophobic country full of idiots.

Pretty much.
The thought of relocating has crossed my mind, unfortunately (as I said above) I have just started a new job and am also in the process of buying a house (price is already agreed, but now I have very real concerns that the buyer for my current property is going to pull out or demand a discount). What I really needed right now was a good few years of stability.

Still, I have always heard good things about Canada...

 

[#07]

If you stay in the EEA and accept freedom of movement then this referendum has been a spectacularly pointless and expensive farce that won't even satisfy the leavers.

It would guarantee a UKIP breakthrough at the next election. You can't mobilise 17 million people to vote for something, mostly by campaigning against immigration, and then not give it to them. If even half of those people just voted UKIP next time they would become a real force at Westminster, and they would run their entire campaign on the promise to implement article 50. Guaranteed.

 

[Fener1907]

In the age of the internet, it's very hard to sympathise with them. Information is readily available, all you need to do is dig a bit.

I think people overestimate the internet in relation to your average voter. Seems to be a tool to propagate the kind of behaviour you would see without it anyway e.g. people don't want relevant statistics, they want those that help result in confirmation bias. Even if you're undecided and go to the internet to help make an informed decision, you need to know where to look (I believe many don't), and in reality they just end up being bombarded with the same nonsense that platforms like Facebook are awash with.

 

[Siorac]

I think people overestimate the internet in relation to your average voter. Seems to be a tool to propagate the kind of behaviour you would see without it anyway e.g. people don't want relevant statistics, they want those that help result in confirmation bias. Even if you're undecided and go to the internet to help make an informed decision, you need to know where to look (I believe many don't), and in reality they just end up being bombarded with the same nonsense that platforms like Facebook are awash with.

That is true, but hours after the vote one of the highest trending Google searches was "What is the EU" - which suggests people started doing research after voting.

 

[Swaters16]

Rename the thread: "utter contempt for humans who disagree with me"

 

[11101]

Are you insane? You want a lying opportunist sack of shit because he has personality? Someone who picks his opinions according not on what he believes but on what he thinks will be best for him. He was pro-Europe until he saw a chance to usurp Cameron.

The only politicians with convictions these days seem to be clinically insane.

Who else is there? Whoever takes over, there will be tough times ahead. I just want some proper choices in time for the next election, and for that people need to take more interest. Right now there has never been a more lacklustre set of candidates in any party.

 

[Classical Mechanic]

Angry as I am Steve I completely agree with you. We need to be more aware than ever that people feel incredibly disconnected.

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...ng-class-revolt-grieve?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

This article sums up nicely what has happened and what needs to be done now.

Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state. (Chomsky) People have voted for a big red bus with a blatant lie smothered on it instead of listening to experts. It's not because they are racist or stupid, it's because they believe things can't get any worse.

Owen Jones obviously has to rationalise why the section of society he champions have gone in the opposite direction to him. No doubt he will keep betting on his three legged horse Jeremy Corbyn and continue to write many more laments as the right tighten their grip on the country.

 

[Fener1907]

That is true, but hours after the vote one of the highest trending Google searches was "What is the EU" - which suggests people started doing research after voting.

My problem with this is, I believe it proved my point. To echo what I've already said in relation to this, if I saw somebody going onto the internet and typing in 'What is the EU?', they would look bit simple to me. It's not because the answer is complex, it's because the question is so incomprehensibly basic, as in where do you even expect me to begin? Do you need to literally have the European continent explained to you, the number of members, the economics of it all, etc. Also, would such a query realistically help you make an informed decision? I think not. Then again, I'm a bit of a twat, so maybe I'm reading a bit too much into it.

 

[Siorac]

Rename the thread: "utter contempt for humans who disagree with me"

Well if we're being needlessly dramatic it should at least be "Utter contempt for humans who threw an entire generation under the bus for no reason whatsoever".

 

[LuisNaniencia]

Owen Jones obviously has to rationalise why the section of society he champions have gone in the opposite direction to him. No doubt he will keep betting on his three legged horse Jeremy Corbyn and continue to write many more laments as the right tighten their grip on the country.

Do you disagree with the sentiment of the article?

 

[Mozza]

As an older remainer, I'm sad. My local authority (Sefton) was a remain area. I live in the poorest part of our town - mixed commercial and residential with social and old terraced housing. We are a seaside town and we do have many eastern Europeans here, there is a lot of seasonal work. Every young person I know here has voted leave. The lovely girls who work in the shop next door freely admitted they didn't know what to vote, so they asked their mums. The younger women at the gym also voted against "immigrants".

I don't believe in letting people rot, it's against my religion and my sense of social justice. However, I was so upset on Friday morning that I felt I had to go to Mass and get my head together - I don't usually go during the week. I don't want to become bitter, it's not the right way. It's difficult to stay balanced, though. It's just so disastrous.

A couple of days on, and I still feel all wrong inside. At 58, I've been disappointed lots of times by results of elections, but never anything like this.

Chin up mate. It is sad.

I fear what happens when the promises made to the leavers don't materialise. Those that voted leave will get angry, but they won't direct it at themselves for their stupid decision, those who lied to them will direct it to immigrants again and be more vicious lest that anger turns on them