What, no ready list of match-winners and dominant performances against decent opponents? *waits*
Look, we can all be as exasperated as you are, no matter if we're pro or anti-Rooney; but 'Jesus wept' proves nothing.
Who wants Rooney gone and who wants him to stay
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Look, we can all be as exasperated as you are, no matter if we're pro or anti-Rooney; but 'Jesus wept' proves nothing.
Did you even read my post mate?
That was when i worked it out, i copy pasted it from a post from then.
He explained why that period because he is quoting himself from last year and presumably has better things to do that go and look up stats. But it seems like the argument is continually shifting here. Earlier he was described as a work horse for Ronaldo but now apparently he was the main man being served by top creative players and he should have scored more.
The truth is he has rarely occupied the central role and I think his best years were on the left where he drove at people and linked with Ronaldo. However he was a special player and brought unique things that helped United and Ronaldo, not a workhorse like Park who was only in the team to help more creative players.
I would be interested to see Shearer or Ruud's numbers against Rooney minus penalties though as I am sure their numbers were inflated by always taking pens whereas Rooney hasn't done that as suggested above. As for Newcastle, you could argue that the team was set up around Shearer whereas United always wants goals to come from all over the team and so it is harder to monopolise the scoring. When we did have that with Ruud I remember people saying we were very one dimensional and less of a team.
Why should i bother mate?
This statement tells me the guy either has an agenda or some sort of memory problem.
So do you agree that Rooney hasn't on many occasions scored the winner in a decisive match, or scored a last minute winner, or put in a performance to dig out a result?
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The people defending him in this thread base their defence on history; his goal scoring history of at least 4 years ago, and the questionable intangibles of the concepts of "he's a legend and deserves respect". That should tell you how insane this is.
I don't think people defending him are saying they still want him here or arguing that he is great now. I myself stated that I had changed from undecided to he should go.
I just have an issue with the revisionism happening that he was just a work horse for Ronaldo and was never a special player or our talisman which is plain untrue. I think that is the basis of the argument and don't think anyone is saying he is great now.
Whats with comparing Shearer to Rooney. Shearer best days were gone by the time he hit 26/27, in fairness Rooney peaked when he was 24.
I can only speak for myself here but I do agree with you that the people saying he was never a special player for us are taking it a little too far. But he should be gone and the sooner it happens the better. The more importance we place on him without recognising his decline (as Moyes and LVG have done) the worse off we will be in terms of moving forward.
I haven't......I have consistently said he was a very good player. He isn't and never was world class
Is jojose and jojojo the same poster?
I like Wayne, unlike some I was giddy with excitement when we gave him that new contract three years ago because I thought he would do great things, but dear me I couldn't have imagined he would decline at such an alarming rate.
I'd keep him in the squad and if he starts I hope it's based entirely on merit alone, none if that "undroppable" garbage please.
I'd keep him in the squad and if he starts I hope it's based entirely on merit alone, none if that "undroppable" garbage please.
It'll be interesting to see how Mourinho handles rooney. One of the bigger challenges he'll face
How is that bashing? RvN was a more prolific goalscorer and there's no shame in that, it's likely than he'd have that record sooner than Rooney of he stayed here longer. It's daft to act as if Rooney hasnt been great for us, however we've had better strikers than him and he's an average striker right now.
Really?
Wasn't he the EPL top goal scorer between the ages of 27-30?
I can't remember exactly as it was a long time ago, but I'm sure someone can check this up.
For me, during that period he was the best finisher in the World and MUFC were prepared to break the World record transfer fee....but he went to NFC instead (for a lower fee, which was also a WR transfer fee).
Fair enough mate maybe that was a bit unfair.
RVN was more prolific that i won't debate it's a fact, had he stayed i have no doubt he would probably be our top scorer ever right now. But i was only trying to highlight that fact that Rooney's scoring record is much much better than most people seem to realize by comparing it to the records of the great out and out strikers.
I won't disagree with either of those opinions mate. If someone thinks he's average or done now, fair enough i can't argue against that because he has been average/poor the last 2-3 years. But i also have to point out when i think someone is being harsh on his previous form. Between roughly 2006-12 i think he was a brilliant player for us and had some great seasons.
I want him to stay for another season. I still think there's more to him.
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-5#post-17924287
Credit to @Mrs Smoker and her great thread
Honestly speaking I'm not exactly a fan of Rooney in his current state and think we would be better off without him, but during his heyday he was quite the player and a fairly decisive one - not just from a productivity perspective alone but through the influence he generally exerted on matches with his all-round play. He was more or less single-handedly dragging us through the 09-10 season and there were plenty of 1-0s and winners from Rooney during this point of time if I'm not wrong.
Just quoting one of my earlier posts on his 09-10 exploits.
The question is this. Do we have to put up with this conundrum given the amount of ground we need to catch up on?
Re: penalties
Shearer scored slightly south of fifty, so a considerable percentage of his total.
Ruud scored 18 for United (as far as I can tell).
FWIW
ETA The exact number for Shearer is 45.
Shearer scored slightly south of fifty, so a considerable percentage of his total.
Ruud scored 18 for United (as far as I can tell).
FWIW
ETA The exact number for Shearer is 45.
They also loved De Gea.
And if you think Woodward 'doesn't hesitate to sack managerial failure' I really don't know what to say. That's exactly what he does.
Van Gaal didn't love David initially but grew to him as he got bailed out match after match. Woody didn't hesitate to sack Moyes he just waited until it was cheap to do so and I suspect the same happened with LVG.
That's clearly nonsense, when we are talking about hesitation what are really talking about? Anyway its just semantics so lets leave it at that, the bottom line is that Rooney is a millstone on the team's neck and if Mourinho doesn't deal with him swiftly and appropriately then what befell his two predecessors will certainly befall him.
That would've been 1996. No way was Shearer close to his best days being behind him. As a goal scorer there is no real comparison. Shearer was far better.
Shearer got injured early on in the 97/98 season and wasn't the same player afterwards, he lost a yard of pace; He certainly scored plenty of goals after that but wasn't as dynamic, like Rooney after his injury against Bayern in 2010.
Shearer was unreal in his first 5 seasons of the PL, scored 137 goals in 169 games. I really think if he'd been at United in that time he'd have scored a goal a game if not more, he barely missed any chance. Shearer is the best no 9 the premier league has seen.
Great info mate, thats certainly puts to bed the nonsense argument that Rooney didn't score many important goals or winners.https://www.redcafe.net/threads/man...sts-1987-88-today.396084/page-5#post-17924287
Credit to @Mrs Smoker and her great thread
Honestly speaking I'm not exactly a fan of Rooney in his current state and think we would be better off without him, but during his heyday he was quite the player and a fairly decisive one - not just from a productivity perspective alone but through the influence he generally exerted on matches with his all-round play. He was more or less single-handedly dragging us through the 09-10 season and there were plenty of 1-0s and winners from Rooney during this point of time if I'm not wrong.
Just quoting one of my earlier posts on his 09-10 exploits.
Cheers, but all credit should go to @Mrs Smoker for those great stats.
Good reminder to update those images. 
Cheers.
Cheers.
Some of the garbage posted by the Rooney apologist on here is madness. Do they not watch United or England play?
To be fair most of the last few pages have been discussing Rooney's past exploits not his recent form.
Will José Mourinho’s Manchester United leave Wayne Rooney out in the cold?
Acquisitions up front and in midfield raise questions as to where the captain may fit in as Mourinho pursues a serious push for the Premier League title
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/15/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-wayne-rooney
Acquisitions up front and in midfield raise questions as to where the captain may fit in as Mourinho pursues a serious push for the Premier League title
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/jul/15/jose-mourinho-manchester-united-wayne-rooney
And who wants him take a leak???
He's vegetated enough, don't you think!
The problem with Rooney is we have or can get better players for the positions he can play. It could be a tough year for him, I can see him losing the Manchester United and England captaincy but then again he is earning 300 bags a week so can't feel too sorry for him.
Hope he gets back to his best this season playing in the 10.
If you were picking an all time Premiership team Shearer would probably be in it purely for his longevity, since he played his entire career there. However, IMHO I would argue that RVN is the best centre forward that's played in the Premiership. He has a better strike rate in the Premier League than Shearer, a better career strike rate than Shearer and a better International strike rate than Shearer. RVN also won the golden boot (or its equivalent) across three countries. Sergio Aguero has probably got a dog in the race too.
Since it's a Rooney thread. IMHO Rooney wasn't/isn't as good as any of them as an out an out centre forward. However, having said all that, at his best he was a very, very, very good player. I do think now might be time for him to move on though.
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In 45 minutes Mkhitaryan showed what we've been missing in the #10 position. Rooney doesn't offer that sort of directness. I really don't see where Rooney fits in really, he's not great at anything anymore. Perhaps he could be 3rd choice striker behind Zlatan and Rashford...
Rooney's head will explode if he's third choice.
He showed nothing. This was just the first friendly of the summer, against nobodies. It doesn't mean anything.
(But I do hope that Mkhitaryan will become a great player for us!)
Should go. has been past it for some years now.
"rooney should be played in front of goal", does terribly, "rooney is an attacking midfielder now", does even worse, "rooney has the vision and passing ability to play as a central midfielder, a general that controls the tempo", does not cut it, "rooney should play in front of goal, he's finishing is still top notch". Feels like we have been stuck in this cycle for eons, goalposts seem to always be changing for him, and I feel like at this point he's an hindrance to the team/club progressing.
Good player over the years and his contribution to our success should not be glossed over but Rooney is one of those weird cases for me, never thought of him as "world class" and a part of me always felt like his status/reputation was somewhat pushed by the media and less so a true reflection of his ability.
"rooney should be played in front of goal", does terribly, "rooney is an attacking midfielder now", does even worse, "rooney has the vision and passing ability to play as a central midfielder, a general that controls the tempo", does not cut it, "rooney should play in front of goal, he's finishing is still top notch". Feels like we have been stuck in this cycle for eons, goalposts seem to always be changing for him, and I feel like at this point he's an hindrance to the team/club progressing.
Good player over the years and his contribution to our success should not be glossed over but Rooney is one of those weird cases for me, never thought of him as "world class" and a part of me always felt like his status/reputation was somewhat pushed by the media and less so a true reflection of his ability.