Who wants Rooney gone and who wants him to stay

Wayne Rooney - do you want him to stay or go?

  • Stay

    Votes: 270 23.9%
  • Go

    Votes: 706 62.5%
  • Undecided

    Votes: 153 13.6%

  • Total voters
    1,129

jojose

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To be honest, I couldn’t care less what he earns. I don’t care what we pay for him or Pogba. I don’t care what anybody earns in comparison to Ronaldo, Messi or whoever else. Literally could not give one single flying f**k.

All I am bothered about is performance on the pitch.

Irrespective of Rooney’s reputation and earnings, he hasn’t performed well enough for 4-5 years now. Not even close to the standard I expect of our main man. So let’s not compare his wages, let’s compare his performances of our main men / captains for the last 25 years. Are his performances and leadership equivalent or even comparable to Robbo? Cantona? Keano? Ruud? Ronaldo? RVP? Nope. Nowhere near. Granted those players are all very different but all contributed an equally high level of performance over various lengths of time.

I was dead against Moyes giving him the contract.

I was excited at the prospect of LVG making an example out of him and getting rid and so massively disappointed when he was made captain.

However, on reflection. Moyes simply didn’t have the charisma, the experience, the ability or the bollox to manage us. He gave Rooney the contract as a substitute for a marquee signing. We couldn’t break the transfer record but we have the best paid player in England. Easy option and marketing / PR ploy from Moyes and Woodward.

LVG didn’t know the league, we were massively short on any kind of leadership and out of the 15 or so senior players, making Rooney captain was again a fairly easy option. We needed stability, not more unrest.

However, Mourinho is a winner. He knows the league. Speaks the language. Knows all about managing not only a massive club but the expectation that comes with it. He knows how to play the media, how to play experienced players and even how to play the fans. Despite the inevitable ins / outs, the squad seems more stable. A contradiction I know but that’s the way it seems. Smalling and De Gea are now much bigger presences and personalities within the squad. Plus we have true leaders who know how to win in Basti and Zlatan. We are now far less reliant on Rooney. In the Moyes days and early LVG days had we bombed out Rooney I could understand younger, less experienced players getting disillusioned and siding with Rooney and against the manager. Now though, if Mourinho bombs him out or benches him, his whinging and whining to other players will fall on def ears. The training ground is apparently buzzing. All these players will be itching to impress Jose.

Then when Zlatan rocks up, swaggers about in training braying in goals and having the aura about him. The Martials, Miki, Memphis etc will be buzzing off him. They’ll see how Zlatan can hold the ball up and bring them into play, they’ll see how Zlatan will be on the end of their crosses. The midfielders will see a focal point who they can ping a pass into and trust his touch. The back four will see a presence that if they are under pressure, they can knock a ball into his chest and he’ll hold it up and win a foul.

They’ll all see progress. Although it’s a team game the majority of footballers are selfish. They want players in the team and around them that make them look better, that make their job easier and that increase their chance of medals.

That realisation is imminent. Rooney is now competing with Zlatan, Martial, Miki, Mata and maybe Pogba. That’s a significant step up in pace, strength, creativity, assist making, goal scoring and basic technical ability. He falls someway short of all of those players.

The way I see it is, best case scenario. He’s told the day he reports (like LVG with Hernandez), “your not my main man, your way down the pecking order and I cant see you playing much. If you want to stay around, that’s fine but the second there is a sniff of bad attitude your gone – I suggest you start looking for a new club, you have been a great servant and so the club wont demand much of a fee and you can go where you want”

Worst case scenario……Jose gives him his chance. However, it wont take long for Jose, the players, maybe even Rooney to realisation he’s lost it. That may come through sheer poor form and getting dropped. Or a huge positive difference the first time he misses a game.

He’s been very lucky over the last 4 years that his poor form has coincided with an injury crisis.

This will be his last season with us. But with Jose’s comments about his position and about how “some players may not like being in the bench and may want to go” I could see him in an Everton shirt in Spetember.
 

welshwingwizard

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To be honest, I couldn’t care less what he earns. I don’t care what we pay for him or Pogba. I don’t care what anybody earns in comparison to Ronaldo, Messi or whoever else. Literally could not give one single flying f**k.

All I am bothered about is performance on the pitch.

Irrespective of Rooney’s reputation and earnings, he hasn’t performed well enough for 4-5 years now. Not even close to the standard I expect of our main man. So let’s not compare his wages, let’s compare his performances of our main men / captains for the last 25 years. Are his performances and leadership equivalent or even comparable to Robbo? Cantona? Keano? Ruud? Ronaldo? RVP? Nope. Nowhere near. Granted those players are all very different but all contributed an equally high level of performance over various lengths of time.
I don't disagree with your post but think it is unfair to say he is not comparable to the above players because most of them played here for a short period at their peak. Only Robson and Keane were here for the period of time Rooney has been and by the end both of them were not the same player that got them legendary status and salary.

I don't think Rooney should be here anymore in fact I just changed my vote from undecided because I just think some players have different career spans and his is coming to an end. However we shouldn't forget everything he did for this club when his body was not failing him. During his key years he was up there with RVP, Ruud, Ronaldo and even Cantona in terms of impact on the club. He was our heartbeat for so long he deserves to be remembered as a United legend.
 

jderbyshire

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When we go on the pre-season tour in China, just leave him there - job done.
 

red4ever 79

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I want him gone because no matter where he'd play, we possibly have better players. He holds back the team by starting automatically.
This in a nutshell. If he plays as striker, then Ibra and Rashford offer more. If he plays as a 10, I would prefer to see Mata or Herrera there. And thank f*ck Mourinho came out and squashed the "Rooney in midfield" bull*it before it escalated
 

LawCharltonBest

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Genuine question

If we forget how good he was between 2006-2011, forget his reputation, his scoring records for England and United etc... How good is Wayne Rooney now as a football player in 2016 on talent alone?

Personally, I don't think on talent alone, he even breaks into the best 20 PL players any more. Maybe not even the top 30.
 

jojose

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I don't disagree with your post but think it is unfair to say he is not comparable to the above players because most of them played here for a short period at their peak. Only Robson and Keane were here for the period of time Rooney has been and by the end both of them were not the same player that got them legendary status and salary.

I don't think Rooney should be here anymore in fact I just changed my vote from undecided because I just think some players have different career spans and his is coming to an end. However we shouldn't forget everything he did for this club when his body was not failing him. During his key years he was up there with RVP, Ruud, Ronaldo and even Cantona in terms of impact on the club. He was our heartbeat for so long he deserves to be remembered as a United legend.
No.........no he wasn't.
When he goes, you wont here his name sung the week after, never mind the decade after
 

welshwingwizard

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No.........no he wasn't.
When he goes, you wont here his name sung the week after, never mind the decade after
I'll give you Ronaldo and possibly Cantona but don't think its as close as you think and certainly not with Ruud and RVP (who only had 1 good season here). Rooney was definitely a world class player for a couple of years and was our talisman in the same way Ruud was.

Anyone who denies that has either been blinded by his poor performances over recent years or never let go of the anger that he said he wanted to leave to go to City. The latter is why he won't have songs sung not because his performances from 2005-2010 were not good enough.
 

red4ever 79

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Genuine question

If we forget how good he was between 2006-2011, forget his reputation, his scoring records for England and United etc... How good is Wayne Rooney now as a football player in 2016 on talent alone?

Personally, I don't think on talent alone, he even breaks into the best 20 PL players any more. Maybe not even the top 30.
Only in England do we debate something like this. Your absolutely correct he isnt even one of the best strikers in the league anymore. I think you guys hold onto the past too long. An example I think of is Raul, he knew, and the people at Madrid knew when his time was up at the elite level. Rooney's time went 2 seasons back, but the English media, culture still hold onto that belief that the old Wayne Rooney is still in there.

It's over guys. He would struggle in a mid table team in the EPL these days
 

kouroux

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Only in England do we debate something like this. Your absolutely correct he isnt even one of the best strikers in the league anymore. I think you guys hold onto the past too long. An example I think of is Raul, he knew, and the people at Madrid knew when his time was up at the elite level. Rooney's time went 2 seasons back, but the English media, culture still hold onto that belief that the old Wayne Rooney is still in there.

It's over guys. He would struggle in a mid table team in the EPL these days
Worst thing about it is how exaggerated are his actions when he does something that ranges from ok to good. A long pass from to an isolated full back is praised like it was never seen before. Tbh, I wonder if most us are crazy on the caf because he's still so highly rated in the media. What does he get rarely criticized ?
 

jojose

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I'll give you Ronaldo and possibly Cantona but don't think its as close as you think and certainly not with Ruud and RVP (who only had 1 good season here). Rooney was definitely a world class player for a couple of years and was our talisman in the same way Ruud was.

Anyone who denies that has either been blinded by his poor performances over recent years or never let go of the anger that he said he wanted to leave to go to City. The latter is why he won't have songs sung not because his performances from 2005-2010 were not good enough.
I don't think he was. He was a very good player. He would put in the occasional world class performance. What he did in his best years was the donkey work for Ronaldo.

Wayne Rooney has never, ever put in 10 performances in 20 games that where world class. He has only a couple of genuine "wow" moments in his entire career. His debut (arguably his best performance in a United shirt), the volley against Newcastle, the biccy against city and maybe the goal at upton park.......Note the level / stage / opposition. World Class is Ronaldo, Messi, Bale, Iniesta, Di Maria performance in Champions League Final.....Zidane in World CUp finals and Hamden Park......fat Ronaldo....Ronaldinho against Real Madrid. Sorry but Wayne Rooney has never been close to that.

World class players perform a a much higher level than him far more consistently.

Rooney is a posh mans Jonathan Walters. Nothing wrong with that. It should not be seen as a criticism because he's had a very good career.
 

itso 7

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Genuine question

If we forget how good he was between 2006-2011, forget his reputation, his scoring records for England and United etc... How good is Wayne Rooney now as a football player in 2016 on talent alone?

Personally, I don't think on talent alone, he even breaks into the best 20 PL players any more. Maybe not even the top 30.
The only criteria should be - is he good enough to be the first choice main/support striker for a top 3 EPL and perennial CL semi finalist side? You know the level we are trying really hard to get back to. The answer, imo and to most not blinded by sentimentality and fanboyism is clearly no! I wouldn't mind if, even at his obscene wage, he is relegated to squad player status and gets to start matches on merit not through special privileges that smack of a manager scared shitless of what Rooney's media buddies will do to him if he dares acknowledge what we have seen over the past three years and acts on it.
 

SteveJ

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Worst thing about it is how exaggerated are his actions when he does something that ranges from ok to good. A long pass from to an isolated full back is praised like it was never seen before.
Neil Ashton of The Sun said:
Wayne Rooney was a revelation alongside Alli in the centre of midfield, picking off passes at will when he was in possession. His swerving 40-yard pass into the path of Alli after just over half an hour was ball-of-the-century stuff.
...
 

welshwingwizard

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I don't think he was. He was a very good player. He would put in the occasional world class performance. What he did in his best years was the donkey work for Ronaldo.

Wayne Rooney has never, ever put in 10 performances in 20 games that where world class. He has only a couple of genuine "wow" moments in his entire career. His debut (arguably his best performance in a United shirt), the volley against Newcastle, the biccy against city and maybe the goal at upton park.

World class players perform a a much higher level than him far more consistently.

Rooney is a posh mans Jonathan Walters. Nothing wrong with that. It should be seen as a criticism because he's had a very good career.
This is historical revisionism at its worst and has no basis in reality. Rooney's mistake has been staying around too long especially after alienating the fans. If he hadn't done the city thing, people would have accepted his decline like they did that of Neville.

Also by your logic a team full of world class players such as Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand, Tevez, Vidic, Evra etc were just doing donkey work for Ronaldo. You make it seem like one of the best United teams ever was like Wales with Bale. A well drilled team with one star player.
 

stevoc

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I don't think he was. He was a very good player. He would put in the occasional world class performance. What he did in his best years was the donkey work for Ronaldo.

Wayne Rooney has never, ever put in 10 performances in 20 games that where world class. He has only a couple of genuine "wow" moments in his entire career. His debut (arguably his best performance in a United shirt), the volley against Newcastle, the biccy against city and maybe the goal at upton park.......Note the level / stage / opposition. World Class is Ronaldo, Messi, Bale, Iniesta, Di Maria performance in Champions League Final.....Zidane in World CUp finals and Hamden Park......fat Ronaldo....Ronaldinho against Real Madrid. Sorry but Wayne Rooney has never been close to that.

World class players perform a a much higher level than him far more consistently.

Rooney is a posh mans Jonathan Walters. Nothing wrong with that. It should not be seen as a criticism because he's had a very good career.
Jesus i've heard some shit on here in regards to Rooney and then theres this.

Look at his scoring record over his United career despite not being an out and out striker for the vast majority of it. Right up there with the best strikers around. He was world class for quite a few years. He's been on the decline for the last few years but lets not re-write history.
 

stevoc

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This is historical revisionism at its worst and has no basis in reality. Rooney's mistake has been staying around too long especially after alienating the fans. If he hadn't done the city thing, people would have accepted his decline like they did that of Neville.

Also by your logic a team full of world class players such as Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand, Tevez, Vidic, Evra etc were just doing donkey work for Ronaldo. You make it seem like one of the best United teams ever was like Wales with Bale. A well drilled team with one star player.
The worst thing is for all we know he never even wanted to go to City. There is no solid info to suggest there was any real link beyond tabloid bullshit that seems to have stuck in peoples minds as fact.
 

jojose

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This is historical revisionism at its worst and has no basis in reality. Rooney's mistake has been staying around too long especially after alienating the fans. If he hadn't done the city thing, people would have accepted his decline like they did that of Neville.

Also by your logic a team full of world class players such as Scholes, Giggs, Ferdinand, Tevez, Vidic, Evra etc were just doing donkey work for Ronaldo. You make it seem like one of the best United teams ever was like Wales with Bale. A well drilled team with one star player.
That effectively what Fergie always had. We always have hard working mentally strong payers that did their jobs and had 1 player….Eric, Ruud, Ronaldo and RVP…..that made the difference.


Don’t get me wrong, Scholes, Gigsy, Rio, Vida and Evra where indeed all world class. But they played in an entirely different position to Rooney. They all fulfilled the role dictated by their position to a world class level.

As a goal scorer and finisher, Rooney isn’t world class and never was.
As a provider he isn’t world class and never was
As a passer he isn’t world class and never was
As a dribbler he isn’t world class and never was.
As a header of the ball he isn’t world class and never was.
His movement isn’t world class and never was.

At his very best, his hunger, work rate and passion where exceptional, combined with his then pace and power and generally being a good player made him a very good player. Never world class.

What he was is irrelevant anyway. Lets agree to disagree on Rooney at his peak. He’s now far from that. Rooney the player he is now would get nowhere near any of our title winning teams and if we intend on winning the league again this season, he should be nowhere near it.

For me, he’s been finished since he renewed after the first contract dispute. After the City threat. To be fair, he was right. And it goes back to what I said earlier about players being selfish. Wayne Rooney knew he needed Tevez and Ronaldo to make him look better. To make his job easier and to increase his chances of winning the league. He was bang on that the club appeared to lack ambition by letting them too go and replacing them with Valencia. He went about it wrong but the sentiment was correct. The show is on the other foot now though, we are showing a lack of ambition by not being ruthless enough to get rid of him.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Rooney's best season was the 2009/10 campaign, the one after Ronaldo left.

That was the closest he ever got to a genuinely consistent full season of world class performances, he was fantastic right up to his injury in Munich.

He finished the 2010/11 season well and he scored a lot in 2011/12, even if his all round performances were pretty average, but then after that it was a slow gradual decline in my opinion. People seem to forget, Rooney's game started to deteriorate when Fergie was still here and everything was settled.
 

I_live_cement

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To be honest, I couldn’t care less what he earns. I don’t care what we pay for him or Pogba. I don’t care what anybody earns in comparison to Ronaldo, Messi or whoever else. Literally could not give one single flying f**k.

All I am bothered about is performance on the pitch.

Irrespective of Rooney’s reputation and earnings, he hasn’t performed well enough for 4-5 years now. Not even close to the standard I expect of our main man. So let’s not compare his wages, let’s compare his performances of our main men / captains for the last 25 years. Are his performances and leadership equivalent or even comparable to Robbo? Cantona? Keano? Ruud? Ronaldo? RVP? Nope. Nowhere near. Granted those players are all very different but all contributed an equally high level of performance over various lengths of time.

I was dead against Moyes giving him the contract.

I was excited at the prospect of LVG making an example out of him and getting rid and so massively disappointed when he was made captain.

However, on reflection. Moyes simply didn’t have the charisma, the experience, the ability or the bollox to manage us. He gave Rooney the contract as a substitute for a marquee signing. We couldn’t break the transfer record but we have the best paid player in England. Easy option and marketing / PR ploy from Moyes and Woodward.

LVG didn’t know the league, we were massively short on any kind of leadership and out of the 15 or so senior players, making Rooney captain was again a fairly easy option. We needed stability, not more unrest.

However, Mourinho is a winner. He knows the league. Speaks the language. Knows all about managing not only a massive club but the expectation that comes with it. He knows how to play the media, how to play experienced players and even how to play the fans. Despite the inevitable ins / outs, the squad seems more stable. A contradiction I know but that’s the way it seems. Smalling and De Gea are now much bigger presences and personalities within the squad. Plus we have true leaders who know how to win in Basti and Zlatan. We are now far less reliant on Rooney. In the Moyes days and early LVG days had we bombed out Rooney I could understand younger, less experienced players getting disillusioned and siding with Rooney and against the manager. Now though, if Mourinho bombs him out or benches him, his whinging and whining to other players will fall on def ears. The training ground is apparently buzzing. All these players will be itching to impress Jose.

Then when Zlatan rocks up, swaggers about in training braying in goals and having the aura about him. The Martials, Miki, Memphis etc will be buzzing off him. They’ll see how Zlatan can hold the ball up and bring them into play, they’ll see how Zlatan will be on the end of their crosses. The midfielders will see a focal point who they can ping a pass into and trust his touch. The back four will see a presence that if they are under pressure, they can knock a ball into his chest and he’ll hold it up and win a foul.

They’ll all see progress. Although it’s a team game the majority of footballers are selfish. They want players in the team and around them that make them look better, that make their job easier and that increase their chance of medals.

That realisation is imminent. Rooney is now competing with Zlatan, Martial, Miki, Mata and maybe Pogba. That’s a significant step up in pace, strength, creativity, assist making, goal scoring and basic technical ability. He falls someway short of all of those players.

The way I see it is, best case scenario. He’s told the day he reports (like LVG with Hernandez), “your not my main man, your way down the pecking order and I cant see you playing much. If you want to stay around, that’s fine but the second there is a sniff of bad attitude your gone – I suggest you start looking for a new club, you have been a great servant and so the club wont demand much of a fee and you can go where you want”

Worst case scenario……Jose gives him his chance. However, it wont take long for Jose, the players, maybe even Rooney to realisation he’s lost it. That may come through sheer poor form and getting dropped. Or a huge positive difference the first time he misses a game.

He’s been very lucky over the last 4 years that his poor form has coincided with an injury crisis.

This will be his last season with us. But with Jose’s comments about his position and about how “some players may not like being in the bench and may want to go” I could see him in an Everton shirt in Spetember.
I think you're going to have another rude awakening like you did with LVG. Mourinho is a big admirer of Rooney and he will play him in his proper position.
 

jojose

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I think you're going to have another rude awakening like you did with LVG. Mourinho is a big admirer of Rooney and he will play him in his proper position.
I think so too.
I think he's start behind Zlatan.
But I think his inept performances will stand out like a saw thumb and Jose will be ruthless enough to drop him. He wont be able to hide, or be carried.
 

jojose

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Jesus i've heard some shit on here in regards to Rooney and then theres this.

Look at his scoring record over his United career despite not being an out and out striker for the vast majority of it. Right up there with the best strikers around. He was world class for quite a few years. He's been on the decline for the last few years but lets not re-write history.
His goal scoring record is as a result of longevity not pure class. A world class forward playing for United for 12 years would have smashed that record out of sight years ago.
 

red4ever 79

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Worst thing about it is how exaggerated are his actions when he does something that ranges from ok to good. A long pass from to an isolated full back is praised like it was never seen before. Tbh, I wonder if most us are crazy on the caf because he's still so highly rated in the media. What does he get rarely criticized ?
It was like this in the Euro's first match v Russia. He played a few long balls to the right and gave a 7/10 performance, but the media and fans on here jumped on it and even created the cringeworthy "Rooney midfield General" thread. Fortunately the dream was instantly shattered by his performance versus Iceland and I am so happy Mourinho came out and said what he did.
 

pauldyson1uk

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I have wanted him gone ever since the first contract crap.
I don't like him , never have done, but while he is a United player I will clap and cheer when he does well and slag him off when he does bad, but once he has gone that will be it, I wont care who he plays for or what he does.
 

itso 7

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His goal scoring record is as a result of longevity not pure class. A world class forward playing for United for 12 years would have smashed that record out of sight years ago.
Aye like Ronaldo has done at Real or Messi at Barca. Does anyone really believe it would take RVN the best part of thirteen years to score circa 250 club goals? That he has taken this long is testament to his inconsistency which meant that no manager trusted him totally as a goal scorer and always had to me moved around to accommodate more reliable goal getters.
 

jojose

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Jesus i've heard some shit on here in regards to Rooney and then theres this.

Look at his scoring record over his United career despite not being an out and out striker for the vast majority of it. Right up there with the best strikers around. He was world class for quite a few years. He's been on the decline for the last few years but lets not re-write history.
You also need to look at the importance of goals.

When I think back to our early premier league / double winning days. I remember a lot of 1-0 cantona’s. I remember the volleyed lob mid week at home to arsenal. I remember the volley away at Newcastle. I remember the last minute volley at Wembley against Liverpool.

When I remember the Ruud days, we had basically a season of 1-0 Ruud. Winners. Big game winners.

When I remember the Ronaldo years, I remember goals in cup finals, I remember goals in Champions League finals, I remember the screamer away against Porto when we were flat and struggling. I remember the last minute winner away at Fulham.

RVP….countless winners. The last minute free kick away at city.

All game changers. All contributions to a title / double winning season.

I honestly do not recall a last minute, big game decisive Wayne Rooney winner. I don’t recall him dragging us through big games with massive performances.

Zlatan will. Even at his age. Zlatan, miki and martial this season will be a damming indictment of the level of player Wayne Rooney now is.
 

Sparky10Legend

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You also need to look at the importance of goals.

When I think back to our early premier league / double winning days. I remember a lot of 1-0 cantona’s. I remember the volleyed lob mid week at home to arsenal. I remember the volley away at Newcastle. I remember the last minute volley at Wembley against Liverpool.

When I remember the Ruud days, we had basically a season of 1-0 Ruud. Winners. Big game winners.

When I remember the Ronaldo years, I remember goals in cup finals, I remember goals in Champions League finals, I remember the screamer away against Porto when we were flat and struggling. I remember the last minute winner away at Fulham.

RVP….countless winners. The last minute free kick away at city.

All game changers. All contributions to a title / double winning season.

I honestly do not recall a last minute, big game decisive Wayne Rooney winner. I don’t recall him dragging us through big games with massive performances.

Zlatan will. Even at his age. Zlatan, miki and martial this season will be a damming indictment of the level of player Wayne Rooney now is.

Really dont want to waste a post but this is on the money!
 

kouroux

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It was like this in the Euro's first match v Russia. He played a few long balls to the right and gave a 7/10 performance, but the media and fans on here jumped on it and even created the cringeworthy "Rooney midfield General" thread. Fortunately the dream was instantly shattered by his performance versus Iceland and I am so happy Mourinho came out and said what he did.
The only way I won't mind him is if he accepts a very different role, basically that he won't be a starter but a bench warmer.
 

red4ever 79

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Let him have his testimonial and as he is walking off, someone convince Koeman to hand him a contract from Everton. (Even then he would struggle to get into that team with Lukaku up top and Barkley behind)
 

welshwingwizard

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Aye like Ronaldo has done at Real or Messi at Barca. Does anyone really believe it would take RVN the best part of thirteen years to score circa 250 club goals? That he has taken this long is testament to his inconsistency which meant that no manager trusted him totally as a goal scorer and always had to me moved around to accommodate more reliable goal getters.
I feel sorry for any player if this is now the yardstick they are being held up to. What Messi and Ronaldo have been doing is phenomenal and we won't see it again for a long time. They are abnormal in how they stay fit all season, play every match and are just ruthless. However that is what has put them up as challengers for the best player ever.

As for Ruud, he had the system set up to play completely through him as an out and out striker and luckily had Beckham at his peak putting pin point crosses in. The season Rooney played as dedicated centre forward, the focus of our team whilst still being fit he had a great season and did score more than 30 goals.

Anyway I have a feeling I am not changing anyone's mind so I'll stop after this...

That effectively what Fergie always had. We always have hard working mentally strong payers that did their jobs and had 1 player….Eric, Ruud, Ronaldo and RVP…..that made the difference.
Every successful United player has been mentally strong but try telling Eric that Kanchelskis, Sharpe and Giggs were just hard working or Ruud that Beckham and Scholes were just hard working. These were top class creative talent that ripped the league to shreds. The reason we have been successful for so long is that goals and assists are able to come from everyone exactly the opposite of relying on one player. We have never been Liverpool for gods sake.
 

stevoc

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His goal scoring record is as a result of longevity not pure class.
Except that isn't true his scoring record is right up there with the best. I posted this last september when someone else made the same assertion (accurate up to Sep 2015 so it obviously doesn't include last season or the equivalent seasons of other strikers).

Over their careers between 18-29 (same time frame as Rooney's United career) Van Nistelrooy scored 237 goals and Shearer scored 236. Rooney has 233 so hardly a big difference in numbers.

Their international goals are Van Nistelrooy 35 in 70, Shearer 30 in 63 and Rooney 49 in 106 so roughly 1 in 2 for all three, hardly a big difference there either.

Going back further between the ages of 18-29 Lineker scored 218 and Law scored 236 goals.
And i'll say the same now as back then, considering he's only ever really had 1-2 seasons where he played as a 9, and the fact he never took penalties for the first 5-6 years of his career. I think it's pretty fecking impressive.

A world class forward playing for United for 12 years would have smashed that record out of sight years ago.
So after seeing his numbers compared to the likes of Shearer, RVN and Law do you still believe that?
 

stevoc

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You also need to look at the importance of goals.

When I think back to our early premier league / double winning days. I remember a lot of 1-0 cantona’s. I remember the volleyed lob mid week at home to arsenal. I remember the volley away at Newcastle. I remember the last minute volley at Wembley against Liverpool.

When I remember the Ruud days, we had basically a season of 1-0 Ruud. Winners. Big game winners.

When I remember the Ronaldo years, I remember goals in cup finals, I remember goals in Champions League finals, I remember the screamer away against Porto when we were flat and struggling. I remember the last minute winner away at Fulham.

RVP….countless winners. The last minute free kick away at city.

All game changers. All contributions to a title / double winning season.

I honestly do not recall a last minute, big game decisive Wayne Rooney winner. I don’t recall him dragging us through big games with massive performances.

Zlatan will. Even at his age. Zlatan, miki and martial this season will be a damming indictment of the level of player Wayne Rooney now is.
Jesus wept
 

stubie

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He is past his peak now, only heading in one direction

Would even let him go at a cut price deal thus saving big on over inflated wages!
 

Sammyjunn

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Except that isn't true his scoring record is right up there with the best. I posted this last september when someone else made the same assertion (accurate up to Sep 2015 so it obviously doesn't include last season or the equivalent seasons of other strikers).



And i'll say the same now as back then, considering he's only ever really had 1-2 seasons where he played as a 9, and the fact he never took penalties for the first 5-6 years of his career. I think it's pretty fecking impressive.



So after seeing his numbers compared to the likes of Shearer, RVN and Law do you still believe that?
And what about matches played? Ruud had a ratio close to 0.7 while Rooney is under 0.5 I believe for example. (Goals per match)
 

2mufc0

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Can't believe some of the things being written here, trying to make him out as some sort of Emile Heskey, yes he's not a Ronaldo or Messi but was a top player at his peak, don't know how people can deny this.
 

itso 7

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Except that isn't true his scoring record is right up there with the best. I posted this last september when someone else made the same assertion (accurate up to Sep 2015 so it obviously doesn't include last season or the equivalent seasons of other strikers).



And i'll say the same now as back then, considering he's only ever really had 1-2 seasons where he played as a 9, and the fact he never took penalties for the first 5-6 years of his career. I think it's pretty fecking impressive.



So after seeing his numbers compared to the likes of Shearer, RVN and Law do you still believe that?
Why 18-29 when Rooney is closing in on 31? Shearer spent a large part of career playing for Newcastle where Rooney had ten uninterrupted years playing for what was then a top two side alongside creative talents like Scholes, Giggs etc. Didn't Ruud had two seasons effectively written off due to injury during that period? The only excuse he has is that of being shunted around but then someone could say he suffered that fate because managers didn't have absolute faith in his reliability/consistency in his favoured position.
Be that as it may he has been a great servant and if he didn't have those ugly contract renewal periods he'd be a legend imo. Those instances to me tainted his legacy and I now view him as a high priced whore who has overstayed.
 

stevoc

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And what about matches played? Ruud had a ratio close to 0.7 while Rooney is under 0.5 I believe for example. (Goals per match)
Ah the ever shifting goalposts of a Rooney bashing debate.

Yes Van Nistelrooy does indeed have a better ratio as you would expect from someone who played his entire career upfront and took penalties for the duration of it.

Heres goals/games ratio of the three for the previously mentioned period:

Shearer P-467 G-236
Nistelrooy P-341 G-237
Rooney P-479 G-233

His scoring record is still very impressive and not solely down to longevity. He was a top player for a long period of time.