Pre-season tour 2016-17

[parisite]

Since English Euro players won't play, we are light on strikers for the tour, putting it mildly.

They're there, they might as well play. The only reason for not going on the tour would be continuing vacation
or preventing unnecessary fatigue. If they don't play then dragging them out there can only be for commercial reasons. With the flight time and 2 games they'd be as well off training back at Carrington and perhaps have a run out with the U21s and the other returning missing against local opposition at the end of next week... Whole tour is just abysmally thought out, I mean it's not like we didn't know that half of our players would be on Euro duty is it so it must have been planned to do the tour without the England players as no-one would think they'd get knocked out in the round of 16.

 

[Nickosaur]

Oh really? Please tell me some of his best qualities. I'll wait!

I don't think you've seen much of him at youth level if you honestly believe that he's only got pace. He's a fantastically composed finisher and has a great touch and technique. Holding the ball up is what he's really poor at, and against men he's shown that he is a long way away physically.

A more reasonable argument would be that he hasn't shown any capability to make the step up from U21 level to the first team.

 

[kenny19]

At youth level, his main qualities were his finishing and link up play.

Lies.

I haven't seen any of it for the past 2 years. All he does is run like the wind.

 

[kenny19]

I don't think you've seen much of him at youth level if you honestly believe that he's only got pace. He's a fantastically composed finisher and has a great touch and technique. Holding the ball up is what he's really poor at, and against men he's shown that he is a long way away physically.

A more reasonable argument would be that he hasn't shown any capability to make the step up from U21 level to the first team.

How can you guys quote finishing as an attribute when he is a striker?

Technique shouldn't be tossed around so easily. From the few games we've seen of him in the first team his touches have been horrible and he hasn't even got on the ball to ever show off anything.

 

[Cassidy]

I haven't seen any of it for the past 2 years. All he does is run like the wind.

Hes also hardly played for the past 2 years.

 

[OohAahMartial]

I don't think Varela was particularly great at defending but I still preferred him over Darmian and Valencia be ause without him our right flank offered zilch, zero, nada, nothing in attack and when he came in his crosses and runs were a welcome relief. Maybe Mourinho could coach more tactical skill into him. But I guess he's off now. Problem is we actually have many players who can play right back but none at a top class level.

 

[Sigma]

I don't think Varela was particularly great at defending but I still preferred him over Darmian and Valencia be ause without him our right flank offered zilch, zero, nada, nothing in attack and when he came in his crosses and runs were a welcome relief. Maybe Mourinho could coach more tactical skill into him. But I guess he's off now. Problem is we actually have many players who can play right back but none at a top class level.

Valencia is a top class right back.

Valencia can more than 'do a job' at right back.

Valencia's whoscored stats for the last 2 seasons (both played at right back)

• Played 32 premier league games with an average rating of 7.23 in the 2014/15 season. (Compare that to Ivanovic - who got in the team of the season that year in a title winning team - he got 7.25). Also compare that to Martial in the 2015/16 season who got the exact same score of 7.23. Everyone said he was brilliant, no such mention of how good Valencia was in 2014/15.
• Played 14 premier league games (due to a long injury) with an average rating of 7.05 in the 2015/16 season.

Darmian on the other hand:

• Played 33 games (for Torino) league games with an average rating of 6.98 in the 2014/15 season. And remember, we bought him after this season.
• Played 28 premier league games with an average rating of 6.91 in the 2015/16 season.

That's just using stats. But, using my eyes, there's an even clearer difference.

Valencia is laughably underrated on this forum just because he switched to right back fairly recently (and because his performances when he was a winger in his last season were not up to his usual standards).

@devilish you should probably read this too.

 

[Hernandez - BFA]

Also Andries Pereira and TFM

Ah fair enough. I guess I've never considered Pereira as a CM, always as a more advanced player in the 3 of a 4-2-3-1.

I'll gladly enjoy seeing TFM getting game time at CM though.

 

[Android1974]

Also Andries Pereira and TFM

The squad is really light on strikers and central midfielders, but there's plenty of wingers and, specially, center-backs (7 of them!, even if Smalling won't feature). So, maybe one of them will be used in the defensive midfield: Blind (the non-specialist coming in handy), taken as a right-back, seems like a good option, though; maybe McNair, I've been told he can play there (and has played there for NI). Fosu-Mensah was also taken as a right-back, but would probably be a good option (since he kind of disappointed in the first friendly). Also, maybe the news about Rojo already being told to look for a team is false. Would Mourinho take him on tour otherwise?

The mad size of the squad took here the first trim (Blackett, Varela, Wilson). This squad number of 25 players is a serious indication of how many will stay in the first team, in my view. Any player outside these should lose all hope of making it (except the youngsters who will stay with the U21), since Mourinho underlined the importance of the tour for ‘spending time together’. And with 6 Euro players still waiting (Darmian, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger, Fellaini, Martial, Ibrahimović), plus Pogba himself (or his double), I guess at least the same number will be trimmed come 31st August. Some tough options, if you ask me!

 

[ChaddyP]

Valencia is a top class right back.

no matter what, there is a common consensus that Valencia is crap at right back, no matter how well he does or how crap everyone else is

 

[Sigma]

no matter what, there is a common consensus that Valencia is crap at right back, no matter how well he does or how crap everyone else is

As Peter Griffin would say, it really grinds my gears

 

[m1y2]

Also Andries Pereira and TFM

and Paddy McNair possibly as no 6

 

[dichinero]

Zlatan is four years older than Rooney, so he needs more rest.

For all we know Zlatan is keeping up in shape but the other is still living it large in Ibiza

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

I can't see us selling James Wilson aged only 20. I fully expect him to go on loan.

 

[CS@SG]

Varela on loan to Frankfurt soon

http://www.espnfc.com/story/2914471...illermo-varela-set-for-frankfurt-loan-sources

 

[OohAahMartial]

Valencia is a top class right back.

By top class I mean would get into any top team. Which of the big clubs would he get into?

 

[Sigma]

By top class I mean would get into any top team. Which of the big clubs would he get into?

Played 32 premier league games with an average rating of 7.23 in the 2014/15 season. (Compare that to Ivanovic - who got in the team of the season that year in a title winning team - he got 7.25).

I just proved to you that he would get into a top team.

 

[Raw]

Everyone off to China

Spoiler

 

[ChaddyP]

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[Hawkeye]

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[Raw]

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[Raw]

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Anders face

 

[Hawkeye]

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[Hawkeye]

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[settembrini]

Played 32 premier league games with an average rating of 7.23 in the 2014/15 season. (Compare that to Ivanovic - who got in the team of the season that year in a title winning team - he got 7.25).

I just proved to you that he would get into a top team.

Why are you so convinced by whoscored.com's player ratings?

According to them Rooney, Rojo and Darmian were all in our top 10 performing players last season while De Gea was 22nd. Do you think that's accurate?

 

[Hawkeye]

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Anders face

Look at every picture he's in on the plane.

 

[parisite]

Why are you so convinced by whoscored.com's player ratings?

According to them Rooney, Rojo and Darmian were all in our top 10 performing players last season while De Gea was 22nd. Do you think that's accurate?

Anyway whoscored is simple. If you score goals you get big marks, if you're a defender you don't.
It's a very basic system which has no real value as a yardstick for performance. If you're a sub your average plunges because it takes no account of the fact that you only played 20 minutes or whatever.

 

[parisite]

Cheapo Russian charter then. Obviously need to save money to waste on Pogba's agent.

 

[Jacko21]

I'm just glad someone has seen sense and updated the official club suit. Much nicer. As opposed to the outdated, ill-fitting black suit that Sir Alex used to insist on everyone wearing.

It's all in the detail.

 

[Mrs Smoker]

I've never seen Jose so....official?


And really dig the suits. But then they put those crappy backpacks, and they become kids again.

 

[Johan77]

So, where's the flight tracker?

Edit...
Must be this one:

https://www.flightradar24.com/AFL7206/a6420a2

 

[Sigma]

Why are you so convinced by whoscored.com's player ratings?

According to them Rooney, Rojo and Darmian were all in our top 10 performing players last season while De Gea was 22nd. Do you think that's accurate?

I finished of the post by saying I can judge with my eyes that Valencia is a very good right back. Obviously it isn't a fool proof system but it has a lot of data that it goes through and stats are a way of backing up your point.

Valencia is fast and strong yes. But he is also technically very good. His first touch, his link up play are all brilliant and his crossing is drastically underrated on this forum (yes isn't not as good as it used to be but I seem to remember him being involved in quite a few goals near the end of last season). No full back/winger hits 100% of their crosses. Most full backs/wingers don't even hit 50% of their crosses as they would want to.

One of the reasons we struggled so much last season was due to the lack of attacking influence our full backs had (which are a big thing under LVG). Darmian and Rojo just weren't good enough in the attacking sense and both were suspect at the back as outlined countless times.

Darmian got schooled against Arsenal and Tottenham and LVG even said he brought on Valencia at half time against southampton because Tadic had too much space and also said that he didn't see Tadic in the second half. Rojo is also rash and supect.

One on one Valencia unstoppable and uses his pace and strength to win the battle. Also I find it funny that people saying he's a liability positionally and then when TFM was all over the place positionally when he was playing at right back he was being lauded for the exact same thing Valencia was doing, using his pace to get back into position. And lets be honest, Valencia was nowhere near as much out of position as TFM was in the games he played there.

Anyway whoscored is simple. If you score goals you get big marks, if you're a defender you don't.
It's a very basic system which has no real value as a yardstick for performance. If you're a sub your average plunges because it takes no account of the fact that you only played 20 minutes or whatever.

And yet Valencia gets a big score.

 

[Robertd0803]

That red hoody looks pretty sweet. (Blind/Young Pic). Make me laugh seeing everyone get on board in the suit and then everyone is magically in t-shirts on board. Amusing to think of the whole team doing a Clark Kent and pulling open the suit to reveal a generic United tshirt underneath.

*Edit* Memphis groups picture is pretty amusing as well. Young and Blind with their hoods up and the look on Carricks face like an old fella telling you to get off his lawn. Either that or he is thinking ''another bloody photo???''

 

[Acole9]

So Wilson, Varela and Blackett all on their way out then.

 

[parisite]

So Wilson, Varela and Blackett all on their way out then.

I'd think so, amongst others.

 

[top1whoisman]

Varela's agreed a loan move to Eintracht Frankfurt.

 

[parisite]

Varela's agreed a loan move to Eintracht Frankfurt.

Really, I'd have thought he could find a better loan move than that. Just avoided relegation last season didn't they ?

 

[top1whoisman]

Really, I'd have thought he could find a better loan move than that. Just avoided relegation last season didn't they ?

At least he’ll probably play a lot, that’s the most important thing for him at this stage of his career.

 

[parisite]

At least he’ll probably play a lot, that’s the most important thing for him at this stage of his career.

At 23 he's not really a spring chicken in footballing terms so he obviously needs to be playing somewhere
but bottom grubbers in the Bundesliga are really a step back for him.