Jose Mourinho's Utd

[royboy16]

We've seen some dire football from Moyes and LVG(bar a few good select performances)but how long do people think it will it take for the team to gel,have a playing style JM wants and stamp his mark on the team ?
I guess it will depend on how quickly the lads can erase LVGs methods and adapt to change but would 3 -6 months be fair or too long ?

 

[ADJUDICATOR]

I'll get back to you in a year.

 

[royboy16]

I'll get back to you in a year.

I think we should have an idea by January what type of football we are playing.

 

[ShakeUnBake]

I think we'll play cautious solid football and try to win the ball back in midfield and let Pogba, Micky, Zlatan and Martial figure out how put the ball in the net on the break. That's probably the gist of it. We should score some from corners too with the height of Pogba and Zlatan, and Mourinho doesn't give much away.

I don't think it will be easy on the eyes, though.

 

[Lawman]

Thinking it will be fun this year as LVG was dreadful what he served up! A dozen 0-0 at half time at home! He should have been sacked for that alone! Jose will have us playing good football plus he has signed a better quality of player that makes it easier. If we get Pogba (I think we will) we are a right back and right winger away from being a top team in Europe again imo. Plus I expect Rooney, Depay, Morgan all to improve. Plus we have Luke Shaw to welcome back, I don't think Jose could have picked a better time to do it. But the club should have done it in January (we might not have won the FA cup) but we would have been in the Champions league.

 

[nick2004]

By September it will be obvious. Jose always wants to have a winning start.

 

[The United]

Based on one match (which is nothing at all), but i think the way jose was talking, he is kinda of playing LVG's style in term of possession but with higher tempo with FBs going forwards more to get behind. I would love it imo.

You still have to know how to play possession football at highest level. We don't have to play it often but I think this team knows a bit of it already which is always a bonus to base on.

 

[Trigg]

Based on one match (which is nothing at all), but i think the way jose was talking, he is kinda of playing LVG's style in term of possession but with higher tempo with FBs going forwards more to get behind. I would love it imo.

You still have to know how to play possession football at highest level. We don't have to play it often but I think this team knows a bit of it already which is always a bonus to base on.

He's said he doesn't like possession for the sake of it which is good to hear. I think it'll be similar to what we've seen but more direct and more freedom in the final third.

Plus some better players have come in which will help. Players who can do the unexpected.

 

[2 man midfield]

Anything will look like a step up. Just a few goals and some excitement again, and he'll look like a messiah.

 

[royboy16]

By September it will be obvious. Jose always wants to have a winning start.

Winning start fair enough the mans a winner but identity,what type of football we will be playing and when should we start to see his stamp on the team was what I was getting at.

 

[The United]

He's said he doesn't like possession for the sake of it which is good to hear. I think it'll be similar to what we've seen but more direct and more freedom in the final third.

Plus some better players have come in which will help. Players who can do the unexpected.

It seemed like we used possession to create spaces on the wings then broke with pace whereas LVG style was like players were staying in their 'zones' and were not get out of them much.

But it is hard to tell with preseason games. We looked like world beaters back in LVG's first preseason games. We just have to believe that Jose will do better.

 

[Striker10]

We played alright but we saw the problem again. We didn't create enough AND we missed two guilt edged chances. We have to start taking chances again. I'm sure it will come but to mount a challenge, we'll need Depay - Micky etc to be scoring those types of chances. I think Micky would be good centrally - against teams that park the bus. He's good at taking his man on and exploiting any gaps. I'd have taken Mane or Mahrez for a bit more quality out wide. Add Pogba in and we should be fine ..

 

[prath92]

Based on one match (which is nothing at all), but i think the way jose was talking, he is kinda of playing LVG's style in term of possession but with higher tempo with FBs going forwards more to get behind. I would love it imo.

You still have to know how to play possession football at highest level. We don't have to play it often but I think this team knows a bit of it already which is always a bonus to base on.

FBs go the same as LvG's FBs did. Maybe even less. Azpilicueta and Ivanovic barely crossed half line and he benched attack minded FBs in Filipe Luis and baba Rahman

 

[The United]

FBs go the same as LvG's FBs did. Maybe even less. Azpilicueta and Ivanovic barely crossed half line and he benched attack minded FBs in Filipe Luis and baba Rahman

I was talking about our first match. So much going forward on right side FBs especially.

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

It's not only a matter of time, it's also, or even more, a matter of quality. Although i believe that LvG's methods proved to be incompatible with the set of players in our squad, Mourinho won't bring the 'good old days' back with just a snap of his fingers. In fact, this may be Mourinho's biggest challenge to date simply because it's the first time he goes to a club where the previous manager had tried to implement a completely different style of football. So, it may take some time until we actually get there.

Once we get this clear, it all depends on the expectations each of us the fans holds for this United squad and what kind of football he likes to watch on the pitch. But my gut tells me that if you want flamboyant, high octane, end to end football, you'll have to be patient. It's true that Mourinho broke all kinds of records in Spain and that his Real Madrid side played some fantastic counter attacking football but it's also true that this particular Real Madrid side was oozing with quality. Here's their first xi

Spoiler: Real Madrid 2011-12

We're a long way from having that much quality on the pitch ourselves. I'd say we look more like his Chelsea side when he returned to London in 2013-14. He treated them as a project that would benefit from doing the basics well and avoiding any unnecessary risks. A very good keeper, two very experienced players to lead the way (Terry/Lampard), a world class attacking player (Hazard) to be the focal point in the attacking half... these were the main ingredients of a rather unimaginative but very hard working and efficient side. The hard working part is what probably cost Mata, KdB and Shurrle their places in the first team.

I expect that he'll follow a similar approach next season, he'll focus more on embedding a "three points is everything" attitude in the players' brains and he'll implement a more pragmatic football style. He'll probably be right too because it's his first season at the club, many players are still on vacation and these players haven't shown many great things in the first place. It will be a Mourinho side, just not a very pleasing to the eye one. But it'll probably be a side that will come closer to a title challenge than any of LvG's or Moyes' sides did.

But i also believe that his ultimate goal is to create a side similar to the one he had in Madrid. One that will be able to take more risks on the pitch and win because of its higher quality. In modern football you can't do well in the CL unless you have enough quality. The days when you could just sit deep and try to absorb pressure and expect that you can win the trophy with the big ears are long gone. High intensity football, one touch passing and the ability to create and finish moves while running with the ball are prerequisites even when you leave the lion's share of possession to your opponent.

 

[Robertd0803]

I expect that he'll follow a similar approach next season, he'll focus more on embedding a "three points is everything" attitude in the players' brains and he'll implement a more pragmatic football style. He'll probably be right too because it's his first season at the club, many players are still on vacation and these players haven't shown many great things in the first place. It will be a Mourinho side, just not a very pleasing to the eye one. But it'll probably be a side that will come closer to a title challenge than any of LvG's or Moyes' sides did.
.

Great point. An attitude that's been missing for far too long. Ill quite happily take grinding out results when needed while everyone gets settled in.

 

[golden_blunder]

playing style was a major gripe for me during the last managers tenure

But more shocking was the lack of direction, purpose, will to win. I'm confident that I will not be saying that about Mou's team.

playing style can follow. I just want United to become aggressive and teams to be afraid of playing them again. We got beat by Midgetland FFS

 

[slir32]

I think the transition from being zombies to footballers won't be that long at all, around 3 months. When players forget LVG's "philosophy" we will back to the United we have all known.

 

[keener]

Not finding a better place to put this response and not wanting to start a new thread, I'll just use this Mourinho's Utd thread.

In world football, it's my opinion that the highest performing clubs are the ones with a mix of world class talent and talent that is supportive to those world class players AND that the core players have played together for a number of years. We occasionally see exceptions to this rule but generally if you look at Barcelona's success with the players from the academy (not making a case to be an academy club btw...) or if you look at Real madrid, OR Bayern Munich, Juve... all of these teams have a significant number of staples that have been there for a long time.

As I get excited about new players, I do believe some significant improvements can be made to a club like ours to bring us to or near the top of the EPL (and I believe we are actively making those.... with top marks to the Glazers and Woodward) but to expect truly special football that can compete on the highest European levels, I believe that will only come with time. I think if Mourinho brings in 5 or 6 players that are near world class, I think we could expect the club to begin to compete with the likes of Madrid or Bayern within 2 or 3 years as they gel together as a squad. Unfortunately, many clubs have to get lucky to get to this point because there is no patience with management these days. They need to be lucky with several fixtures to get results to keep the manager around long enough even if he has a nice plan and foundation. If we can keep this core of players together for 3 or 4 years, I believe we'll be enjoying a run of trophy winning that could last a while. With DDG, Smalling, Shaw, Pogba??, Martial, Rashford, MK, that is a strong core that can certainly last 5+ years and be complimented year to year with additional talent that can help achieve on the highest levels but this group will need time.

Under Fergie, we were great for a long time and for a lot of reasons.... but not the least of those was the core group of players that played well together for a long period of time. Look at Leicester City, look at Bayern Munich probably the best example. Those guys play together adding a piece or 2 each year as the BFS of the world age out of their team. For pete's sake, they are basically the German national team too. No wonder they are like clock work.

To my ultimate point. There was no bigger hater of Mourinho that me. I hated Chelsea, Hate their owner and hated all the antics Mourinho and Costa pulled. I loved hating them. BUT, I'll now admit that I'm as excited as the next guy with the swagger he brings and the open purse that the owners and Woodward have given Jose to craft the core of his club. The football these guys played in the first game was enjoyable to watch (Depay aside) and it's aggressive attacking possession football. For me, that's the United way and frankly, that's the way forward beyond the foundation that LVG established.

And let me go on record as saying I DON'T CARE HOW MUCH WE PAY FOR PLAYERS. The market is different today. No argument can change my mind on that one. Pogba for 120 million, Martial for 30 million, shaw for 26 million, blah blah blah. Qualify under the FFP and spend to get that solid core (which we are).

 

[OohAahMartial]

What I noticed from yesterdays friendly was a change in style of play that was almost diametrically opposite to LVG's. Instead of pressing, we stood off and let them have the ball as long as they liked, as long as it wasn't in a dangerous area. So instead of having possession for the sake of possession, we let them have that. When we did get the ball instead of horizontal sideways passing we immediately made a vertical pass looking to counter. At times it resembled route one football. Even the defenders were given permission to blast the ball forward to the front line. Often times our possession lasted for just one pass because of this. This team right now is more capable of possession football and looks very guileless at how to play counter-attacking football. This will take quite a bit of time to retrain, and players more capable of it, either from first teamers coming back into training or new additions. Since these first teamers are coming back very slowly, after a busy euros/copa, and will end up having very little to no preseason, hence lacking in fitness and opportunity to train in the new style, I think that we will have a very poor start to the season, but hopefully a very good end to it once the team gets the new style. I hope fans give Mourinho this time to transform the style this radically and don't panic if the start is very shaky.

 

[Perrick Dubois]

I was discussing with one of my staff the other day and he made an interesting observation. "Hopefully we don't see Mourinho's United and we just see United". Thought that was quite poignant.

 

[Footyislife]

Still needs time to get rid of LVG's brainwashing. It will take some time for the players to realize they won't get yelled at or left off the team for taking a risk. I still saw players like Herrera, Blind, Lingard making some possession passes, instead of aggressive vertical passes. I definitely like the higher tempo we play on the counter after we draw them in to our half. Though we saw him mix it up with some high pressing.

I doubt we've seen his true tactics. He's just getting players individually a better sense of the style and rhythm he wants them to play with.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I thought against Dortmund there were some pretty clear indications that we have changed tactics and that was the main positive I was looking for pre season. We counter attacked on a couple of occasions with real pace, the best example the missed pass from Depay that really should have been better and would have lead to a goal. It was that speed of transition that was so clear to see. I also think the pressing seemed different with real hounding of the opponent in the midfield combined with letting them have the ball when in deeper zones. For me personally (and I think Mounrinho) there was actually more positives than negatives in the game that I think a lot of people will not be able to see because all they care about is results. I can't wait for our full squad to play and the season to kick off, think Mourinho will win the title this year.

 

[ManUchosenbosslvg]

I don't expect any miracles to be honest, I'm expecting him to start from the back and make us hard to beat like he did with Chelsea in his 1st year on his return.

People expecting us to be playing like his Madrid side at their best, tearing teams apart on the break are setting themselves up for disappointment.

His Chelsea side didn't really contest the league with Citeh or the red sh!te that season despite having easily the best head to head record against the big teams. I'd hope he shows a bit more bravery this season, fed uo with the conservative 1 goal and sit back football lately.

 

[fallengt]

I don't care what type of football he's gonna play in his 1st season here tbh, enough of philosophy bull crap. Comfortable top 3 and somewhat challenging for title should be a good start.
When he stamps his authority and establish a solid foundation to build from there (should be in 1.5 year or 2) then we'll talk about his football.

 

[peridigm]

I think the transition from being zombies to footballers won't be that long at all, around 3 months. When players forget LVG's "philosophy" we will back to the United we have all known.

Adding to this, I think we'll see a majority Jose United by next season. Looking at turnover, in Jose's 3rd year, I can only see DDG being the last remaining Fergie signing. We could see Moyes signings gone this year or next. LVG's signings, we'll probably still have Shaw, Martial, and maybe Schneiderlin if Jose can get him back to form.

I'll reserve my youth assessment until we see what shape the squad takes this summer.

 

[blue blue]

I think I'm nearly as interested to see how you lot do as I am CFC. As a Chelsea fan I still can't get my head round what went on behind the scenes last season and to see how Jose does this season will, perhaps, help the rehabilitation. If you get off to a good start I'm pretty confident it will continue and you'll get top 4, but if the results are a bit dodgy after 6-8 games I think he'll start to have a few problems. I think he's developed a fragility that wasn't there in 2004/5/6. Last season must have made him question his methods and the last thing he needs is for his team to start dropping points. Despite the general consensus I'm of the view that Jose isn't a tactical genius but a motivational manager. Don't get me wrong he knows how to get tune out of team but many times I've seen him make radical substitutions, double subs early in a game or even at half time and they didn't work. I think he relies heavily on getting the most out of each of his players. The rumour was always that the players loved to play for him. They loved him and he loved them. From the outside last season it looked like they didn't love him and in the end they didn't respect him. He lost that connection with the players. It's all supposition but if he can get your players to connect with him, and them to respect him I think success will come. If he doesn't get the players on side early you could be the first club at which he has completely failed. I feeling better already.

 

[Android1974]

I think I'm nearly as interested to see how you lot do as I am CFC. As a Chelsea fan I still can't get my head round what went on behind the scenes last season and to see how Jose does this season will, perhaps, help the rehabilitation. If you get off to a good start I'm pretty confident it will continue and you'll get top 4, but if the results are a bit dodgy after 6-8 games I think he'll start to have a few problems. I think he's developed a fragility that wasn't there in 2004/5/6. Last season must have made him question his methods and the last thing he needs is for his team to start dropping points. Despite the general consensus I'm of the view that Jose isn't a tactical genius but a motivational manager. Don't get me wrong he knows how to get tune out of team but many times I've seen him make radical substitutions, double subs early in a game or even at half time and they didn't work. I think he relies heavily on getting the most out of each of his players. The rumour was always that the players loved to play for him. They loved him and he loved them. From the outside last season it looked like they didn't love him and in the end they didn't respect him. He lost that connection with the players. It's all supposition but if he can get your players to connect with him, and them to respect him I think success will come. If he doesn't get the players on side early you could be the first club at which he has completely failed. I feeling better already.

Mourinho was tactically very good till, say, the Real Madrid experience. What he did with Porto, the first Chelsea and Inter was not obvious at all, from a tactical point of view. But after that he seems somewhat less connected to the tactical subtleties of the game (not jumping on the possession-based football bandwagon so as not to be deemed a Guardiola follower) and he has struggled to have his team play good football. I'm hoping he can do it again at United, but the pressure for results and not being able to go out in his usual rambles, might turn it into a very difficult job.

 

[blue blue]

Mourinho was tactically very good till, say, the Real Madrid experience. What he did with Porto, the first Chelsea and Inter was not obvious at all, from a tactical point of view. But after that he seems somewhat less connected to the tactical subtleties of the game (not jumping on the possession-based football bandwagon so as not to be deemed a Guardiola follower) and he has struggled to have his team play good football. I'm hoping he can do it again at United, but the pressure for results and not being able to go out in his usual rambles, might turn it into a very difficult job.

He's done it before so he should be able to do it again but times change and players seem to have more power these days. I get the feeling that SAF ruled with a rod of iron in the end and could almost demand a good performance but Jose will have to coax a decent performance using his very best people skills. I'll be watching for the early signs, and like someone else on here has already noted, he used to build his teams from the back and I would expect him to do the same now. If the defence shuts out on a regular basis it'll be a good sign. I'm expecting this to happen. Even if they don't score many but don't concede in the first few games this will be a good sign. One nil, nil nil, one nil will be a very good start. I really think the start is crucial for Jose. I agree the tactics of his recent teams hasn't been obvious and I thought this when Chelsea won the prem in 2015. They started the season pretty well and after a while were playing some excellent passing football but this changed at Xmas and defence became more important. Tottenham bashed us at WHL on boxing day and he reverted to defence after that. Those tactics got us over the line and you can't argue if you win in the end but the early form seemed to be of the players making. Hazard was creating a lot and going round opposing players at will. Costa was bashing his way into the scoring books and Matic was holding the midfield. I would have thought most tactics would work with players like that at the top of their form. They were motivated and were playing for each other. For me Jose's main quality is that he motivates his players to levels they haven't reached before. And here lies the problem. When things aren't going well a good tactician can change things around and can fall back on his tactical knowledge to get him through. Intelligent players understand this and will work with a manager on this. Jose is strong on motivation and if this goes wrong the problem is harder to fix. How do you fix an unmotivated player?
I'm sure it's not as simple as this but when you have been psychologically damaged like all Chelsea fans were last season you start to think all sorts of things.

 

[Sammyjunn]

We have really poor midfielders, Schneiderlin cant play meaningful passes for shit and lacks some severe vision, Schweinsteiger is slow, and he just plays for the ball retention, no incisive passes, no through balls, no cross passes, no change of speed but just passing it sideways and backways (mostly short) and by that "controlling the tempo". I think Herrera showed some decent potential in his first season, quite a nothing player nowadays and hit and miss. And Carrick is old, it made him get caught out more often and his normal play less effective. Signing Pogba would help, but I still feel we have too little natural ability on the ball in our side to play good football. In attack it seems decent though bar the likes of Rooney, Memphis, Lingard (of whom I hope, they wont be starters).

 

[Oneunited26]

I think we'll play cautious solid football and try to win the ball back in midfield and let Pogba, Micky, Zlatan and Martial figure out how put the ball in the net on the break. That's probably the gist of it. We should score some from corners too with the height of Pogba and Zlatan, and Mourinho doesn't give much away.

I don't think it will be easy on the eyes, though.

Mourinho is trying to recover united from a combination of the later fergie era of value for money era 2009-13, the Moyes era titled the clueless one 2013/14, and VG the stubborn one 2014-16, so Jose has a job on his hands. I think with his track record, winning has the priority he could change united's fortunes, he deserves has much time as possible pending how he has a vision for united. We are all hoping its the Jose Mourinho model 2004 - 14, not the 2015 Jose Mourinho model, lets hope its the former not the latter

 

[Organic Potatoes]

Our defense should stiffen, and with DDGod in goal the goals allowed will again be among the lowest in the league. Barring a bad injury to Martial or Henry Mediterranean we will also score more, especially on the counter.

Our pre-season isn't doing us any favors, though. They should've went back to the US so I could watch the games.

 

[Sweet Square]

As everyone has said give him a few months.

But if I was to guess now(Based off our last 2 games) I would say it will be something similar to Fergie last couple of years here - A solid attack and defence with a few special moments sprinkled in.

 

[Lawman]

Think this squad is good but we still need a right back right winger and centre mid regardless of Pogba.

 

[monosierra]

Excellent counter-attacking football ... pending a squad rebuild per Mourinho's specifications.

His Porto, Chelsea, Inter, and Real have all been different teams though. At Real, he had the best squad available of the bunch and they managed to play great attacking football at their best. The first three teams were under-dogs in Europe and played defensively.

 

[Kag]

I really like Mourinho and we should have appointed him three years ago, but I'm actually a little bit confused with regards to his pursuit of Pogba and his apparent decision to press ahead with a two man midfield.

The only midfield player we have that could compliment Pogba in a two is Schneiderlin, and even that doesn't seem like an ideal partnership. Whether it be Carrick, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Pogba, Bastian, or even Fellaini, every one of them would work better in a proper three man midfield. It's a great set of options, and hugely underrated on here at the moment, but none of them are really going to work sat behind Rooney at #10.

 

[Oneunited26]

I really like Mourinho and we should have appointed him three years ago, but I'm actually a little bit confused with regards to his pursuit of Pogba and his apparent decision to press ahead with a two man midfield.

The only midfield player we have that could compliment Pogba in a two is Schneiderlin, and even that doesn't seem like an ideal partnership. Whether it be Carrick, Herrera, Schneiderlin, Pogba, Bastian, or even Fellaini, every one of them would work better in a proper three man midfield. It's a great set of options, and hugely underrated on here at the moment, but none of them are really going to work sat behind Rooney at #10.

If we look at those midfield options, carrick, bastian, fellaini, none of those 3 should really be here, when fellaini is not a natural midfielder, carrick and bastian have lost their legs, Schneiderlin is the only practical option to play alongside pogba, if we really want to build something special. we probably need 1 more CM after pogba, we need that modric/carrick in his prime type midfielder to anchor the midfield, then there is pogba IF he is signed, and I still think herrera could be that goalscoring midfielder, since he does have that mobility.

Of all our options currently if we snap up pogba, I would be very interested in this midfield and front line

Schneiderlin
Pogba herrera
Mkhitaryan Zlaten Martial

Rooney like always is the white elephant in the room that is a problem, when he is nowhere near at a level jose needs to succeed

 

[Sb_16]

GK: DDG/Romero/Johnstone
RB*: Valencia/Darmian
CB: Smalling/Jones
CB: Bailly/Blind
LB: Shaw/Rojo
CM*: Carrick/Schneiderlin
CM: Pogba/Herrera
AM: Rooney/Mata/Fellaini
RW: Mkhitaryan/Lingard
LW: Martial/Memphis/Young
ST: Ibrahimovic/Rashford

*Areas where additions would be made

Going into the new season without a holding CM capable of reading the game would be very dangerous since Carrick is getting old, Schweinsteiger will probably be sold, Blind won't be first choice and none of the other senior CMs are capable in that role.

I'm starting to think Mourinho is not going to use Periera, Januzaj, Mensah and Jackson as much as we'd want.

 

[MoskvaRed]

Pogba will be a huge upgrade on our current attacking midfeld options. Throw Martial, Mikhitaryan and Zlatan into the mix, with some back up from Rashford, and Luke Shaw back, and I think we should play some good stuff.

 

[luke511]

GK: De Gea
LB: Shaw
CB: Smalling
CB: Bailly
RB: Valencia/Darmian
CDM: Schneiderlin/Carrick/Bastian
CM: Pogba
CM: Herrera
LW: Martial
RW: Mkhitaryan
ST: Ibrahimovic/Rashford

That's our strongest XI, that's how we should line up.