Trump and Brexit: What has happened to the world?

sullydnl

Ross Kemp's caf ID
Joined
Sep 13, 2012
Messages
35,608
Explain this to me.

I don't just mean "people are stupid" or "people are racist". People have always been stupid and racist. So where has this regressive surge come from? Also, what the hell comes next?

Btw, if you don't think Brexit and Trump are part of the same thing, just stop. Seriously.
 
Wall to wall TV coverage scaring the shit out of people for almost 20 years. Making them despise the establishment while encouraging them to punch down.

White people are also living way longer, meaning there's millions more out of touch folk than at any time before.
 
Somewhere Noam Chomsky and others like Michael Moore are unwillingly muttering 'I told you so'.

The elite have been given the finger, regardless of the consequences.
 
The fact that people like you automatically assume and label people that disagree with you are stupid or racist.
That's a huge part of your answer. People are sick of being told what to think and who they should be by people who believe they're better than them.
 
This is the post-modern rejection of globalism, of internationalism, of multiculturalism in favor of nationalist populism.
 
Carolina Red said:
This is the post-modern rejection of globalism, of internationalism, of multiculturalism in favor of nationalist populism.
Click to expand...

Wonder how it breaks down age-wise?

Wondering if we can expect a massive backlash against this anti-intellectual, nationalist surge from the millennial generation in the future or if they're part of the problem in some way.

Basically, where does the hope for the future come from here?
 
Swaters16 said:
The fact that people like you automatically assume and label people that disagree with you are stupid or racist.
That's a huge part of your answer. People are sick of being told what to think and who they should be by people who believe they're better than them.
Click to expand...
So they avoid good reason and logic to prove some sort of point or what?
 
People just got sick of how the establishment is running things.

The wealth of the world's richest 1% equals to the other 99%, and every year the gap keep increasing. Its fecking ridiculous, and that have been happening under democrats and republicans, right and left governments, so people is waking up to the scam that their democracy was not a real democracy.

Hillary is the only reason Trump won. She is the official mascot, the political face of the establishment. People is fed up with them.

If Bernie had ran, he would have won this shit.

2020 is the chance for a third party runner to take over.
 
People want change and not people who have been making deals for past decade to run as president and to perpetuate the status quo.
 
As long as people are well off economically they don't care. As soon as there is a little trouble they start blaming anyone and everyone instead of taking personal responsibility.

We won't work towards 'Making America/Britain Great Again' by getting a better education, believing in equality and moving ahead with time. We'll 'Make America/Britain Great again' by moving back towards the stone ages.

Don't tell us what is better for us. Tell us what we want to hear.

But let's not worry too much, it's only a temporary phenomenon (I hope). In the next 4 years they'll find out that talking the big talk is easy, walking the walk isn't. Michigan and Cleveland ain't getting their factories back. Automation is the way forward. There will be no wall. And Color is very much part of America.

May be it's the jolt the progressives needed to wake up from their slumber. The racists, the bigots and the white nationalists are serious.
 
Swaters16 said:
The fact that people like you automatically assume and label people that disagree with you are stupid or racist.
That's a huge part of your answer. People are sick of being told what to think and who they should be by people who believe they're better than them.
Click to expand...

I didn't assume and label people as stupid and racist. I've been posting away in the Brexit threads arguing against the depiction of Leavers as mindless racists. I even fecking bolded the part of the OP that said I didn't want people to throw out those simplistic answers.
 
sullydnl said:
Explain this to me.

I don't just mean "people are stupid" or "people are racist". People have always been stupid and racist. So where has this regressive surge come from? Also, what the hell comes next?

Btw, if you don't think Brexit and Trump are part of the same thing, just stop. Seriously.
Click to expand...

It has a lot to do with the rising cost of living relative to wages. In the US, less and less people feel the "American Dream" is achievable.

I'm not a big Chomsky fan, but if you have Netflix check out his Requiem film.

 
The white working class decided to stop voting the way they were expected to.
 
sullydnl said:
I didn't assume and label people as stupid and racist. I've been posting away in the Brexit threads arguing against the depiction of Leavers as mindless racists. I even fecking bolded the part of the OP that said I didn't want people to throw out those simplistic answers.
Click to expand...

That's exactly what you did.

"I don't just mean people are stupid and racist... People have always been stupid and racist... where has the surge come from"

You've literally said that there's been a surge of stupidity and racism and that's the reason Trump/Brexit are happening. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but it was your implication. Regardless, one of the biggest problems is the left's condescension towards opposing view points, there ivory towers and there conviction that the without doubt no better than everyone else. It does not appeal to millions of people, clearly it isn't working for a majority of people.
It's pretty clear that average people cannot relate to that kind of messaging and are unhappy about being told what to do and how they should think.
 
2008 coming home to roost? People don't trust standard politicians & want a dramatic change. I really don't think the media helps either.
 
sullydnl said:
Wonder how it breaks down age-wise?

Wondering if we can expect a massive backlash against this anti-intellectual, nationalist surge from the millennial generation in the future or if they're part of the problem in some way.

Basically, where does the hope for the future come from here?
Click to expand...
I dunno. 90% of the teens I teach love Trump. But I'm in a very very red county, so I'm not sure how that plays out elsewhere.
 
Twigg said:
So they avoid good reason and logic to prove some sort of point or what?
Click to expand...

Much harder to bring people across to your side if you're constantly labeling and belitting them. Kind of like the difference between your significant other speaking to you constructively, and nagging you.

Twitter is ground zero for this nonsense. Opinions not widely accepted are shooed the feck out. People find your personal info and get you fired. And so on.

The counter reaction is to lay low and make those unsavory/unpopular opinions made known at the polls. It almost happened with the Scottish referendum. It happened with Brexit. And now Donald Trump will, barring a miracle, be president.
 
Twigg said:
I wasn't necessarily suggesting that, but it looked like you were.
Click to expand...

My mistake. But clearly, people aren't voting out of spite, they aren't uneducated dregs just out to prove a point and stick a finger up to some nebulous establishment.
There's obvious logic and reason behind the decisions. The inability of some from the opposing view to even consider the existence of this logic is part of problem.
 
People aren't happy, and want radical change.
 
Swaters16 said:
That's exactly what you did.

"I don't just mean people are stupid and racist... People have always been stupid and racist... where has the surge come from"

You've literally said that there's been a surge of stupidity and racism and that's the reason Trump/Brexit are happening. Maybe that wasn't your intent, but it was your implication. Regardless, one of the biggest problems is the left's condescension towards opposing view points, there ivory towers and there conviction that the without doubt no better than everyone else. It does not appeal to millions of people, clearly it isn't working for a majority of people.
It's pretty clear that average people cannot relate to that kind of messaging and are unhappy about being told what to do and how they should think.
Click to expand...

No. I said I don't just mean people are stupid and racist. Don't. I put that part in bold. I followed it up by pointing out that there have always been racist and stupid people, which means that people being racist and stupid doesn't explain this. I then asked where this regressive surge had come from, indicating that I wasn't blaming it on racism and stupidity

How you read that as me blaming stupid and racist people, I have no idea.
 
People are fed up with globalisation, rightly or wrongly. Other countries are winning at it now.
 
sullydnl said:
No. I said I don't just mean people are stupid and racist. Don't. I put that part in bold. I followed it up by pointing out that there have always been racist and stupid people, which means that people being racist and stupid doesn't explain this. I then asked where this regressive surge had come from, indicating that I wasn't blaming it on racism and stupidity

How you read that as me blaming stupid and racist people, I have no idea.
Click to expand...

"Where has this regressive surge come from" <-- Pretty big tell.

It's pretty clear what your feelings are. Racism is regressive and apparently, according to you, regressives are driving Brexit and Trump. Your phrasing and syntax are saying: stupid and racist people are voting for Trump.
So there's the problem. Even when asking for answers you write like you already know the answer.

At any rate, the fact that you felt the need to say don't just reply with people are stupid and racist kind of proves the point doesn't it?
 
Swaters16 said:
"Where has this regressive surge come from" <-- Pretty big tell.

It's pretty clear what your feelings are. Racism is regressive and apparently, according to you, regressives are driving Brexit and Trump. Your phrasing and syntax are saying: stupid and racist people are voting for Trump.
So there's the problem. Even when asking for answers you write like you already know the answer.

At any rate, the fact that you felt the need to say don't just reply with people are stupid and racist kind of proves the point doesn't it?
Click to expand...
Trump himself is demonstrably stupid and racist. It's not exactly a stretch to claim that his voters do not support him on the basis of any sort of intellectual merit.

Also, speaking of the ivory towers of the left is quite hilarious when the supposed champion of the people was following the election coverage in Trump Tower.
 
sullydnl said:
Explain this to me.

I don't just mean "people are stupid" or "people are racist". People have always been stupid and racist. So where has this regressive surge come from? Also, what the hell comes next?

Btw, if you don't think Brexit and Trump are part of the same thing, just stop. Seriously.
Click to expand...

Britain has always been Eurosceptic, people had been waiting years to express that directly. A more apt comparison would be the drift of Labour voters to UKIP, as many economic and social factors are analogous to the US.

But in short, established political parties have left too many people behind. Macroeconomic measures and global trade deals have been the benchmark, whereas the many voters are seeing their lives become more difficult year-by-year. The social mobility and certainties of the past no longer exist.
 
Swaters16 said:
Or they have reason and logic. They just disagree with you. Maybe your issue is intolerance
Click to expand...

This is gold. It is intolerant to call the supporters of a candidate who wants to ban all Muslims from entering the USA, deport all undocumented immigrants and is supported by the KKK, racists?
 
Swaters16 said:
"Where has this regressive surge come from" <-- Pretty big tell.

It's pretty clear what your feelings are. Racism is regressive and apparently, according to you, regressives are driving Brexit and Trump. Your phrasing and syntax are saying: stupid and racist people are voting for Trump.
So there's the problem. Even when asking for answers you write like you already know the answer.

At any rate, the fact that you felt the need to say don't just reply with people are stupid and racist kind of proves the point doesn't it?
Click to expand...

I think Trump and Brexit are regressive. I also think racism is regressive. That doesn't mean I blame racism for Trump and Brexit. Similarly, I think eating shit off the floor is regressive. That doesn't mean blame it for Trump/Brexit either.

I even put the stupid/racist arguments in quotation marks, to indicate that they weren't my arguments.

You can't seriously not be getting this.
 
Nick 0208 Ldn said:
Britain has always been Eurosceptic, people had been waiting years to express that directly. A more apt comparison would be the drift of Labour voters to UKIP, as many economic and social factors are analogous to the US.

But in short, established political parties have left too many people behind. Macroeconomic measures and global trade deals have been the benchmark, whereas the many voters are seeing their lives become more difficult year-by-year. The social mobility and certainties of the past no longer exist.
Click to expand...
But then why vote for a rich smug idiot whose middle name could be "global trade deal"? And a lot of his campaugn was absolutely shitting on people who are the worst off in the current systems.
 
Carolina Red said:
This is the post-modern rejection of globalism, of internationalism, of multiculturalism in favor of nationalist populism.
Click to expand...

The scary part is that the situation in the US has a lot of similarities with post WW1 Germany. A fecked up economy and high unemployment despite having a lot of resources and industry. A lot of animosity among the different "classes" and a middle class in steady decline. Fair fecks to Trump though, he managed to turn all this hostility and anger into votes.

Am i saying Trump is going to go on a murderous rampage? No, but with two narcissistic arses leading two of the greatest military powers on earth there could be trouble brewing
 
Bobcat said:
The scary part is that the situation in the US has a lot of similarities with post WW1 Germany. A fecked up economy and high unemployment despite having a lot of resources and industry. A lot of animosity among the different "classes" and a middle class in steady decline. Fair fecks to Trump though, he managed to turn all this hostility and anger into votes.

Am i saying Trump is going to go on a murderous rampage? No, but with two narcissistic arses leading two of the greatest military powers on earth there could be trouble brewing
Click to expand...
History doesn't "repeat itself", but it sure does rhyme.
 
People believing they deserve a larger share of the world's wealth without their productivity warranting it.

Americans want those chinese factory jobs just as much as the british want the agricultural jobs currently done by immigrants. The current "system" isn't delivering people the wealth they feel entitled to.
The underlying problem is a lack of understanding of what they perceive as the "system". Both Brexiteers and Trump fans will be disappointed sooner than later, as their valve deteriorates the situation instead of improving it.
 
sullydnl said:
I think Trump and Brexit are regressive. I also think racism is regressive. That doesn't mean I blame racism for Trump and Brexit. Similarly, I think eating shit off the floor is regressive. That doesn't mean blame it for Trump/Brexit either.

I even put the stupid/racist arguments in quotation marks, to indicate that they weren't my arguments.

You can't seriously not be getting this.
Click to expand...

You can't seriously not see the connection between claiming one side is regressive and the question you asked initially.
 
sullydnl said:
Explain this to me.

I don't just mean "people are stupid" or "people are racist". People have always been stupid and racist. So where has this regressive surge come from? Also, what the hell comes next?

Btw, if you don't think Brexit and Trump are part of the same thing, just stop. Seriously.
Click to expand...
People have had enough of the same old shit. Simple as that.
 
The liberal left wing getting hung on preaching and lecturing about people's real lives and how they should feel/think etc - has finally been blown apart. Was coming IMO - I've been saying for a while (but didn't think it'd happen so soon, in 2016)!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.