Brown Toothpick
Full Member
Democracy is overrated.
Nope, but you can still blame them when they do stupid thingsSo older people should only get half a vote?
If you make Donald fecking Trump POTUS because of some reactionary whim, well then you are as thick as can be, reap what you sow and deserve what ever is coming your way.Probably quite a lot of people were also fed up with all the anti-trumpism that was literally everywhere. I couldn't give a shit about USA elections for various reasons, paid absolutely no attention to it, didn't follow charts, polls, didn't watch any TV programmes related to it and still I was constantly bombarded by every single fecking media, 'celebrities' who apparently had this nous regarding politics for some reason, politicians including this cnut president of European Council telling me that Trump is dick and nobody should vote for him because he's literally the second coming of Hitler and we're all fecked if he wins.
Mind you that it's in Poland and I'm talking about Polish media somehow still shoving all this shit down my throat. I believe that there were quite a many people in the USA who were fed up with even bigger portion of all this and who would probably not even go to voting wasn't it for all the anti-trumpism.
Its not politics, it's economics. Lives are stagnant. Twice now people have picked a jump into the dark over the steady course.I think a lot is to do with anger at the general state of politics and how vacuous it has become.
You also see it on the left - With the rise of Corbyn and Sanders swinging away from the middle. There was a window of opportunity to change the world for the better in all this that has now come and gone.
It's just easier to pick up votes on a patos-driven ticket. Welcome to the post-centric era.
She did also lose a damaging proportion of millennial voters in important run-offs, or do you refute that point? White women too saw a noticeable decline, as did university educated white men IIRC.She won voters under 44, and she won by bigger margins voters under 30. Trump did badly with young voters.
Will check that tomorrow. TBH I'm not sure how reliable the exits were, given the discrepancies with the actual outcome.She did also lose a damaging proportion of millennial voters in important run-offs, or do you refute that point? White women too saw a noticeable decline, as did university educated white men IIRC.
That is so so far from the truth.The liberal left wing getting hung on preaching and lecturing about people's real lives and how they should feel/think etc - has finally been blown apart. Was coming IMO - I've been saying for a while (but didn't think it'd happen so soon, in 2016)!
I do believe it is part of it. The reasons for Brexit and Trump are multifaceted though. Reductive hysterical arguments don't really help anyone.That is so so far from the truth.
Soon as Mexico stump up the cash.So when will they start building the wall?
Any experts call this one correctly?
People voted for any alternative to the status quo rich/poor divide, a working class revolt if you will. You can't call that a left wing system.I do believe it is part of it. The reasons for Brexit and Trump are multifaceted though. Reductive hysterical arguments don't really help anyone.
Soon as Mexico stump up the cash.
For white people.I do believe it is part of it. .
Populism, left or right.Feels like the world is reaching a tipping point towards some sort of major shift or revolution in the way way we do politics.
A lot of the 'white people' @Mockney refers to believe the staus quo to be a left wing liberal elite focused on bringing the world multiculturalism. A lot of these voters are definitely railing against 'cultural Marxism'.People voted for any alternative to the status quo rich/poor divide, a working class revolt if you will. You can't call that a left wing system.
They were also voting against things like TPP, of which the incumbent was a leading supporter. Many of these people have been forgotten by the mainstream right and left for decades.People voted for any alternative to the status quo rich/poor divide, a working class revolt if you will. You can't call that a left wing system.
When is the last time the left had power if at all? Obama may have some lefty ideals but he's centrist and Hillary is more right than left. I don't see how the left are really involved in this at all?They were also voting against things like TPP, of which the incumbent was a leading supporter. Many of these people have been forgotten by the mainstream right and left for decades.
Bingo.The fact that people like you automatically assume and label people that disagree with you are stupid or racist.
That's a huge part of your answer. People are sick of being told what to think and who they should be by people who believe they're better than them.
This is what I don't get. Did they really think Trump was gonna open a factory for all of them?The one thing I will say, it won't take long before rural America realises he offers them nothing.
For all intents and purposes, the Democratic Party is the left in America. I also think you are wrong about Obama's individual politics but that is a small matter.When is the last time the left had power if at all? Obama may have some lefty ideals but he's centrist and Hillary is more right than left. I don't see how the left are really involved in this at all?
This is exactly it - while there may be xenophobes, racists and other kinds of terrible people in both Brexit and Trump voters, they wouldn't have been enough to make them win. The real reason is that people are just fed up and disenfranchised. For them this is a protest vote to the establishment. In both cases the votes have come from the less well-off (not necessarily uneducated or old), especially those negatively affected by globalisation.People just got sick of how the establishment is running things.
The wealth of the world's richest 1% equals to the other 99%, and every year the gap keep increasing. Its fecking ridiculous, and that have been happening under democrats and republicans, right and left governments, so people is waking up to the scam that their democracy was not a real democracy.
Hillary is the only reason Trump won. She is the official mascot, the political face of the establishment. People is fed up with them.
If Bernie had ran, he would have won this shit.
2020 is the chance for a third party runner to take over.
And in both cases it's turkeys voting for Christmas. That's what is so sad about all of this. People who wanted to make a statement about being sick of the way powerful people always act in their own interest end up being fooled into helping political opportunists making a naked power grab of their own.This is exactly it - while there may be xenophobes, racists and other kinds of terrible people in both Brexit and Trump voters, they wouldn't have been enough to make them win. The real reason is that people are just fed up and disenfranchised. For them this is a protest vote to the establishment. In both cases the votes have come from the less well-off (not necessarily uneducated or old), especially those negatively affected by globalisation.
Exactly. I've found making posts in favourite of Trump a rather pointless exercise since the majority of posters here are blindingly intolerant of views that differ from their own. The post-election analysis on TV reflects the same attitude by the democratically-leaning commentators, who refuse to consider that there are intelligent people who don't share their points of view.Or they have reason and logic. They just disagree with you. Maybe your issue is intolerance
Isn't Trump part of the self interested establishment? At least he was upfront about it, I'll give him that.It's a vote against the self interested corrupt establishment as much as it's a vote against cultural marxism as much as it's a vote against (failing) multiculturalism and globalisation.
The left allowed itself to morph into a hysterical liberal elite who thought their moral superiority would make up for utterly failing all the working people they once represented.
In a nutshell.
Absolutely. Well said!Said this elsewhere but this is a failure of a sanctimonious liberal left which largely focuses on individual freedoms when things like community, religion and nationalism matter to a lot of people. And these things matter because it's been hardwired in our genes: we are a tribal species. Within our species, some of us are genetically more receptive to change (liberals), while others favour stability (conservatives).
The problem is that the media and elite are dominated by the liberals who have ignored or arrogantly dismissed many of the issues - for instance, the erosion of traditional institutions like the church or marriage - important to conservatives.
Jonathan Haidt explains all this much better.
One could equally state 'You know what? They were wrong. All of them.' We advance no further.You know what? They were right. All of them.
I'm no expert, but I won some moneyAny experts call this one correctly?
More than half the people hate arrogant people like you, simple as that.Explain this to me.
I don't just mean "people are stupid" or "people are racist". People have always been stupid and racist. So where has this regressive surge come from? Also, what the hell comes next?
Btw, if you don't think Brexit and Trump are part of the same thing, just stop. Seriously.
Labelling those who think differently to you as racists and idiots is never a good way to get them on your side.It's because the Remainers and the Democrats both ran spectacularly bad campaigns.
That's another obvious similarity. On the flipside, this is the first time I can ever think of when the successful campaign(s) were based on so many blatant lies.It's because the Remainers and the Democrats both ran spectacularly bad campaigns.
Yeah, they both decided to defend the status quo vs. some vague hopeful dream of the future... really hard to win it if you frame it like that.It's because the Remainers and the Democrats both ran spectacularly bad campaigns.