Yup. 'If' anything good comes from all of this I'd hope that we finally see a move away from 2 party politics. I think that puts a lot of the younger generation off voting too. They're told they're wasting their vote if it doesn't go to Party A or B (and it's true). That needs to change.
Trump and Brexit: What has happened to the world?
- Thread starter sullydnl
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Which brings us back to the idea that honest, decent and caring people in general don't feel a need to get into politics which implies the current political scene is filled with ice-cold careerists and I think this phenomenon is becoming more and more true nowadays.
he's within the trade union pockets for example. I absolutely hate them
That's not a commie view. The Labour party has always had strong association with trade unions, even the neoliberal, right of centre leaders.
Thats just Labour
He made it worse. I can never vote for somebody who was literally elected by these idiots. I can vote for left leaning party not for a trade union in government
He wasn't elected by those 'idiots', he was elected by a huge mandate of ordinary people across the country and has been credited with making Labour the party with the largest number of registered members in Europe.
Why?
Electoral reform is essential. FPTP or Electoral College is just gerrymandering. Clinton won the popular vote but not the presidency. Hell, I'm a remainer and think it's wrong for UKIP to get 12% of the vote and 0.2% of the seats.
Amazing really that both US and UK conservative governments have been installed into power by working class people.
That Labour, Liberal and Democrats who are supposed to know this demographic have completely misread people's thoughts and values. They have ignored the shift from socialist left to right of centre and they have a lot to do now to get anywhere near power again.
It's an absolute mess and my hope now is these "checks and balances" do what they're supposed to do.
Scary times ahead I feel and it's astonishing the a population of 290 mill cant find two better candidates than Clinton/ trump.
Can't be going down the nationalist route are we? People are more educated than that, surely!
Did see a tweet today which lightened the mood a little.
"I've not been this concerned about the right wing since Jamain Pennant"
That Labour, Liberal and Democrats who are supposed to know this demographic have completely misread people's thoughts and values. They have ignored the shift from socialist left to right of centre and they have a lot to do now to get anywhere near power again.
It's an absolute mess and my hope now is these "checks and balances" do what they're supposed to do.
Scary times ahead I feel and it's astonishing the a population of 290 mill cant find two better candidates than Clinton/ trump.
Can't be going down the nationalist route are we? People are more educated than that, surely!
Did see a tweet today which lightened the mood a little.
"I've not been this concerned about the right wing since Jamain Pennant"
Cause they only care about their own, not the people as a whole. Take the union of the tube trains as an example. Their working conditions and salaries are way over the norm. Its ridiculous
i fully agree with that
So, I gather Hitler won then?
I disagree
Anyway, back to important things. I see England have had a good day in the cricket
Setting aside bizarre examples like that one, there is indeed a very good reason why polling is getting worse, and it's not because of vested interests. With the decline of landlines, its becoming harder and harder for pollsters to reach a statistically appropriate range of subjects. Some top US pollsters have openly said that the cost and the difficulty of reaching mobile owners (they pick up unknown numbers at a vastly reduced rate apparently) is increasing year on year and they simply don't know how to correct it effectively.
Greizmann is flirting with us
I agree that it would be best to achieve positive change for everyone and not just a group but don't you think it's possible to fight for both at the same time? I obviously don't know what the trade unions in the UK are like so I can't comment on them in particular.
But in general I don't really see a problem fighting for better conditions in your own job and at the same time trying to achieve a change for everyone.
I mean it's pretty hard to change society as a whole / improve the situation for everyone but you wouldn't want to be stuck with crappy working conditions because of that, right?
True, but young people today are getting a pretty crappy time of things compared to the baby boomer generation with sky high rents, far more limited opportunities to get on the housing ladder, and now an older generation who decided it was ok to remove their right to freely work and move around Europe. There is a resentment building and its not going to go away if the boomers don't start realizing that no things aren't the same anymore, and yes young people are facing problems they didn't have to.
I'm not a millenial btw.
I believe that a politician should have a social conscience. However I am against a politician being control by external forces whose agenda is different than national interest and irrespective if its a business lobby or a trade unions. Jeremy would be a nobody without his unions. That does sound like the US politicians in the 50s who were elected thanks to union lobbying.
LBC has right wingers on their main broadcasts (breakfast, drive). What I've heard of Talk Radio is the same.
I'll give you chanel 4 news. I won't give you the Beeb
100%. Intellectual laziness.
Desperate people (they've been genuinely let down) and they've made desperate choices. Hopefully it works out better than we fear.
Yeah, but, Hilary got more votes from the people than Trump, that just isn't how the US elect a president. So it's a majority in terms of how the US carve up the states and attribute their votes but in terms of voter volume, Hilary comes out on top.
So, yes, I and many others can moan about it.
Its the treaty of Versailles all over again. Put people into a ridiculous situation and they will take ridiculous decisions.
I can kind of see your point but being controlled by them just means the people who organize themselves in unions vote for him, right?
It's this kind of vitriol that makes you the classic example of a keyboard warrior.
It advances your cause not one bit.
Don't understand the issue with the electoral college system - in general I mean. A popular vote would be just as unfair - dense cities just dominate the vote then surely? What about the rest of the country?
People opposed to the current system also don't seem to acknowledge these states (their leanings) change over time.
People opposed to the current system also don't seem to acknowledge these states (their leanings) change over time.
That's a unions job, to represent their members. Labour exists to extend it to the rest of the work force. Why you hate it I don't understand
Oh and over-population. That's a big factor in all of this. Too many people competing for too few resources. Conflict over these resources was bound to happen and the disenfranchised will take increasingly drastic measures to try and roll back the inevitable. Throw in a hefty dose of climate change and jobs being lost to new technologies and you have an awful lot of people in a very bad place, with very little to lose.
Richly ironic that all of this has resulted in a US president who denies that climate change is actually happening, surrounded by cronies who will stamp down any efforts at population control in case that infringes on "family values". You couldn't make it up...
Richly ironic that all of this has resulted in a US president who denies that climate change is actually happening, surrounded by cronies who will stamp down any efforts at population control in case that infringes on "family values". You couldn't make it up...
You make Unions sound sinister
and most are. I happen to be quite versed with unions. They care about
their own interest > their members interest >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>national interest
That's fair enough but I wouldn't want them to mix with politics or have any influence in it let alone having the PM in their pockets
We're going backwards as far as humanity is concerned. These results are based on one thing and one thing only, no matter how many people dispute that.
But his evil was not the typical slime associated with politicians, that was relegated to the background. His evil was more personal.
But that's why they are connected to the Labour party, it's the unions/workers voice in politics. Also there's not a lot to suggest Corbyn is in the unions pockets at all, as it's been mentioned Corbyn has the backing of Labour members - which includes a range of people, some from the unions but others like myself have no connection to the any union.
Anyway since we talking about Left Labour MPs, I think this quote is well worth repeating today
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Old people. You should lose your vote aged 60
What falls in between millenial and baby boomer? Cause I don't have a pension, and I'll be damned if I ever join snapchat.
https://theintercept.com/2016/11/08/trump-transition-lobbyists/
@Pogue Mahone
I've been posting these articles for ages. He does the same sleazy shit that all politicians do.
But you look at his opponent, and then you realise why she would never make it a talking point.
@Pogue Mahone
I've been posting these articles for ages. He does the same sleazy shit that all politicians do.
But you look at his opponent, and then you realise why she would never make it a talking point.
I am a few years older (not many
) than @Penna and experienced life before and after the EEC. It was not easy getting on the housing ladder then either, especially with interest rates much much higher than they are now and property prices were rocketing then far more than they are now.More people own property now than they did 40 50 or 60 years ago. Council houses were sold off.
When I first bought a property I really struggled to pay the mortgage and we didn't have mobile phones, sound sytems, massive TVs, computers and all the rest
that people now take for granted. Just to live and eat was a struggle. The Uk was not a bed of roses in the 60s and 70s.
As you know I am a strong EU supporter and the problem is that the older generation remember the good things that happened but don't remember the struggles. It is more a question of education and not being able to distinguish between lies and reality plus people believing what they wanted to believe.
Even the immigration issue was similar then with resentment of the colonial immigrants of the 50s and 60s.
Nothing really changes, other than now it is more acceptable to voice one's prejudices
Agree with that. Although would make it 65