Trump and Brexit: What has happened to the world?

[bleedred]

It's not that it's wrong, it's just plain fact. He may not be a career politician, but he has money only people can dream of and most importantly, he's got influence and he built an audience. We're not born into equal settings which is obvious. The thing that made America so unique, for so long is the ability to climb the socialeconomic ladder upwards. It's harder and harder each passing year for millions of Americans. You see that with the diminishing so called American middle, working class with stagnant wages, increasing or unbalanced local, state and federal taxes.

You dont get my point at all, do you??... People here are talking about restricting voters by age, intelligence, brain scans , etc.., I am saying why do it from bottom up, when you can screen these candidates with high degree of standards even before they are considered as nominees.... Does that make any sense??

 

[Xeno]

I don't agree that America is in anyway special in terms of social mobility. The 'American Dream' is just hyperbole; a proportion of immigrants into any nation will work hard and prosper, what's so fundamentally different about the US that it gets this title?

 

[Amadaeus]

I am not arsed by what is happening to the majority of the world because young voters are actually being progressive as their vote will show. The future will be better and this is just a step backward at the moment for humankind.

If not, the science community will leave them behind and we can create a better society on another planet. Reading everything about EM Drive, reuseable fuel and quantum computing, I am excited about the future. So, feck all these backward thinking, singled minded, bigoted and negative -ism individuals.

 

[bleedred]

I am not arsed by what is happening to the majority of the world because young voters are actually being progressive as their vote will show. The future will be better and this is just a step backward at the moment for humankind.

If not, the science community will leave them behind and we can create a better society in another planet. Reading everything about EM Drive, reuseable fuel and quantum computing, I am excited about the future. So, feck all these backward thinking, singled minded, bigoted and negative -ism individuals.

Where are they going to get their money from?. Most research in UK was funded by European research council and they have kind of put a stop to it.

And Trump in US is not very scientific, doesnt believe in climate change, Vaccinations etc..,

 

[edcunited1878]

You dont get my point at all, do you??... People here are talking about restricting voters by age, intelligence, brain scans , etc.., I am saying why do it from bottom up, when you can screen these candidates with high degree of standards even before they are considered as nominees.... Does that make any sense??

How did the Fit and Proper Person Test work out for the Premier League? You cannot do that in any objective way. It's up to the people to become informed enough to screen (i.e. vote).

 

[surf]

I don't agree that America is in anyway special in terms of social mobility. The 'American Dream' is just hyperbole; a proportion of immigrants into any nation will work hard and prosper, what's so fundamentally different about the US that it gets this title?

The American Dream is also about the ability to reinvent oneself. It is a large and varied enough country that anything is possible if you are mobile. I agree that the outcomes usually don't match the aspirations.

 

[berbatrick]

Where are they going to get their money from?. Most research in UK was funded by European research council and they have kind of put a stop to it.

That is correct (the ascendant right is generally cold on science funding). If this trend continues I've wasted the 1st 30 years of my life.

 

[bleedred]

How did the Fit and Proper Person Test work out for the Premier League? You cannot do that in any objective way. It's up to the people to become informed enough to screen (i.e. vote).

Its a start. Also, just because it didn't work in one scenario doesn't mean it couldn't work in other. Political reforms are need of the other. Its better to do something about it rather than nothing...

 

[JPRouve]

How about for starters, expect them to be dignified and not make the comments he had made over the last year or so.

I mean, if you or me made those comments we would be jobless right now...

So you want a discrimination based on the historic political correctness of candidates. To me that's included in the votes, people voted for Trump despite his history because the american society believes that it's not a big deal which for me is fair enough.

Basically it's way too subjective and would require a moral police which I'm against.

 

[Will Absolute]

...but that basically says, if you're not very intelligent, you're not allowed to speak up and have a say.

Look, I'm as devastated as the rest that Donald has found his way into power, but I really don't see how engineering the system through exclusion to suit our agenda is ever acceptable.

It's not hard to see the psychological origins of Mao and Stalin when you read the Cafe, is it? The left's total inability to accept the right of others to have a different opinion to themselves, and eagerness to deprive them of control of their own lives is the foundation stone of tyranny.

 

[bleedred]

So you want a discrimination based on the historic political correctness of candidates. To me that's included in the votes, people voted for Trump despite his history because the american society believes that it's not a big deal which for me is fair enough.

Basically it's way too subjective and would require a moral police which I'm against.

So you are ok if someone is making racist comments at a work place??

 

[podurban2]

It's not hard to see the psychological origins of Mao and Stalin when you read the Cafe, is it? The left's total inability to accept the right of others to have a different opinion to themselves, and eagerness to deprive them of control of their own lives is the foundation stone of tyranny.

Nice one.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

It's not hard to see the psychological origins of Mao and Stalin when you read the Cafe, is it? The left's total inability to accept the right of others to have a different opinion to themselves, and eagerness to deprive them of control of their own lives is the foundation stone of tyranny.

Eh? What evidence do you have for the left having a monopoly on not wanting others to hold dissenting views? This idea that the right never shouts down or tries to suppress the opinions of people they disagree is one of the biggest myths going round these days.

 

[JPRouve]

So you are ok if someone is making racist comments at a work place??

Is that what I said? I told you that I can't decide what is socially right and wrong on my own, it is a decision that is taken by the group and in that case you can clearly see that in the US the group thinks that Donald Trump is morally fit enough to be president.

 

[Eckers99]

We're just repeating the 1930's.

 

[Paul the Wolf]

We're just repeating the 1930's.

Not quite there yet, 1929 is still two or three years away

 

[NinjaFletch]

Eh? What evidence do you have for the left having a monopoly on not wanting others to hold dissenting views? This idea that the right never shouts down or tries to suppress the opinions of people they disagree is one of the biggest myths going round these days.

Especially as we're talking about an election cycle when the right candidate has literally threatened to lock up his rival and has had mass cries of 'lock her up' at his rallies ffs.

 

[elnorte]

Nice one.

Believe me he means it.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Sorry billy that was a good one

 

[saivet]

...but that basically says, if you're not very intelligent, you're not allowed to speak up and have a say.

Look, I'm as devastated as the rest that Donald has found his way into power, but I really don't see how engineering the system through exclusion to suit our agenda is ever acceptable.

Agreed, that would only end up marginilising the poor and uneducated even further.

 

[bleedred]

Is that what I said? I told you that I can't decide what is socially right and wrong on my own, it is a decision that is taken by the group and in that case you can clearly see that in the US the group thinks that Donald Trump is morally fit enough to be president.

I didnt say that you said it. I was just asking you.

No, He is not morally fit enough just because a group decides so. What you are saying is moral relativism.Are you saying you cannot inherently decide what is right and wrong yourself. Nevermind, this is going way off topic. Just ignore that and answer me this, Should People in the position of power be held to a standard better than your average Joe?. And if so what is wrong in deciding that standards and implementing it before the nominations??

 

[Eriku]

People just got sick of how the establishment is running things.

The wealth of the world's richest 1% equals to the other 99%, and every year the gap keep increasing. Its fecking ridiculous, and that have been happening under democrats and republicans, right and left governments, so people is waking up to the scam that their democracy was not a real democracy.

Hillary is the only reason Trump won. She is the official mascot, the political face of the establishment. People is fed up with them.

If Bernie had ran, he would have won this shit.

2020 is the chance for a third party runner to take over.

That there is it. Trump and Bernie were fuelled by the same disillusionment, the only difference being that the Republican scene can stomach more WWE tendencies than the left, and so Trump could get free exposure by being outrageous, whereas Bernie was fighting a coronation and had no real way to gain enough media attention for his movement to take off sufficiently.

It's a shame it had to come to this, but how many decades have people been scare-mongered into voting for the lesser evil, and told that a third party vote is selfish and destructive?

It's also plain as day that humans revert to their baser instincts when the going's are tough, and politicians and media are all too happy to stoke the fires. Surprise surprise, they stoked the fire to the extent that they could no longer contain it.

I hope the scourge is brief and that it'll leave in its wake a fertile soil that will be conducive to an actual grass-roots movement for the people.

Sorry for being heavy on the metaphorical platitudes.

 

[Dante]

I think the Trump election has more in common with Boris Johnson's mayorship and Arnold Schwarzenegger's governorship. It's a celebrity appointment made by voters who have a limited view of what makes an individual competent.

On the other hand, Brexit was misguided but I do believe it was voted for on good faith. That faith may well have been misplaced, but still...

I don't think these two election results have much to do with each other. Maybe you could point to rising Islamophobia as a totem pole for both campaigns, but the nature of them was very different.

 

[JPRouve]

I didnt say that you said it. I was just asking you.

No, He is not morally fit enough just because a group decides so. What you are saying is moral relativism.Are you saying you cannot inherently decide what is right and wrong yourself. Nevermind, this is going way off topic. Just ignore that and answer me this, Should People in the position of power be held to a standard better than your average Joe?. And if so what is wrong in deciding that standards and implementing it before the nominations??

That's your opinion, I agree with you but it seems that we are in the minority.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

My mother told me she's buying me mouthwash for Christmas for repeating the very same things as the guy she voted for.

 

[Randall Flagg]

So far on here today I've seen that old people shouldn't be allowed to vote, and now the uneducated

feck sake

 

[JustAFan]

So far on here today I've seen that old people shouldn't be allowed to vote, and now the uneducated

feck sake

Voter Suppression FTW!

 

[GloryHunter07]

Politics has gone full X factor. Its all about hype and drama, not serious content.

Combine that with millions of disenfranchised people and you get results like this.

 

[JustAFan]

...but that basically says, if you're not very intelligent, you're not allowed to speak up and have a say.

Look, I'm as devastated as the rest that Donald has found his way into power, but I really don't see how engineering the system through exclusion to suit our agenda is ever acceptable.

Agreed, that would only end up marginilising the poor and uneducated even further.

I actually was not seriously suggesting that. The part about literacy test was a big clue

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_test

 

[Dante]

It's the Leicester effect in some ways. Everyone wants to be part of something historic and something that will never be repeated. It's why we had United, Liverpool and City fans all celebrating the same team.

Neither result will happen again.

 

[Randall Flagg]

It's the Leicester effect in some ways. Everyone wants to be part of something historic and something that will never be repeated. It's why we had United, Liverpool and City fans all celebrating the same team.

Neither result will happen again.

I'm still blaming Fergie

 

[crappycraperson]

I think the Trump election has more in common with Boris Johnson's mayorship and Arnold Schwarzenegger's governorship. It's a celebrity appointment made by voters who have a limited view of what makes an individual competent.

On the other hand, Brexit was misguided but I do believe it was voted for on good faith. That faith may well have been misplaced, but still...

I don't think these two election results have much to do with each other. Maybe you could point to rising Islamophobia as a totem pole for both campaigns, but the nature of them was very different.

Immigration was a big issue in both the elections so they definitely had something in common.

 

[Billy Blaggs]

Politics has gone full X factor. Its all about hype and drama, not serious content.

Combine that with millions of disenfranchised people and you get results like this.

In a nutshell

 

[Dante]

Immigration was a big issue in both the elections so they definitely had something in common.

Immigration is an issue in every election.

But the complexion of the campaigns was very different.

 

[sullydnl]

For all the complaints here about older voters, it really shouldn't be that hard to empathise with them. I imagine they've spent a long time feeling the way a lot of us do now: The world had shifted away from the values they believed in and they wanted to put things right. I don't agree with those values at all but still....

The people who really irk me are the younger liberals who claimed that Clinton was just as bad as Trump and didn't vote for her as a result.

 

[Wibble]

I don't agree that America is in anyway special in terms of social mobility.

The US is one of the worst developed nations for social mobility. The American Way in fact entrenches poverty.

 

[Wibble]

The sobering reality is that the decades of being ruled by generally terrible politicians has resulted in an electorate who feel disenfranchised and that they are being ignored/left behind. This makes people upset and angry. Upset and angry people often do stupid things without neccesarily thinking things through.

Result = Brexit and President Trump

Politicians of the world hang your collective heads in shame.

 

[Dante]

One thing that the two elections definitely had in common (and that may well deserve a thread on its own) is the power of social media. Facebook and Twitter played a big role for both Trump and Brexit.

Neither campaign was particularly rooted in logic. In years gone by, TV or newspapers would have torn apart the flimsy premises that each was built on. But with Facebook and Twitter deciding what news you see, the Left only saw leftist news and the Right only saw right-wing news. Neither side got a big picture view of what was going on, and neither side saw their own favoured theories broken down in a meaningful way.

This may be the sign of things to come. Social media algorithms could be more influential than we'd ever considered.

 

[JPRouve]

The sobering reality is that the decades of being ruled by generally terrible politicians has resulted in a disenfranchised electorate who feel they are being ignored/left behind. This makes people upset and angry. Upset and angry people often do stupid things without neccesarily thinking things through.

Result = Brexit and President Trump

Politicians of the world hang your collective heads in shame.

Yeah, some like me don't vote while others protest by voting for genuinely awful politicians.

 

[endless_wheelies]

I was very much against Brexit but I think Trump is a good thing.

Big brash idiot Republican to counteract Obama's wussiness on the international stage, Putin might welcome Trump now but I see them becoming huge rivals over time, if Putin thinks he can ride roughshod over American interests with only monetary punishments with redneck Trump in charge backed by his tub thumping hillbilly support he has another thing coming. Trump is someone who will actually address problems he sees without any thought for stepping on shoes or political correctness, a quality we never see with actual politicians.

He's been very positive about a post-Brexit trade deal to boot.