Why are you answering a question with a question? Who are they? Valencia has been in much better form i'll say that, but they're on similar wages
Mourinho's real task at Utd - An overpaid, over-hyped squad that needs fixing
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) was joined by comedian Ali Woods to look back at the best and worst moments of a rollercoaster season with the annual United Hour Awards.
Has Ten Hag been sacked yet? We're not sure and we hope not, but it's looking more likely as the days pass.
Who should replace him and why is it taking so long to make a decision?
No one overhyped this squad last season; if anyone caused the hype it was Jose's signings. Bit weird to call the whole squad this.
Are we supposed to underhype martial- Rashford - shaw - de gea - bailly - TFM - P0gba - Lingard etc etc
These are young players and this manager of ours simply hasn't had much of a track record of getting the best out of them anywhere.
Relax your self. Jose will do decent but he isn't the second coming of SAF & he is simply not all that 'special'.
Are we supposed to underhype martial- Rashford - shaw - de gea - bailly - TFM - P0gba - Lingard etc etc
These are young players and this manager of ours simply hasn't had much of a track record of getting the best out of them anywhere.
Relax your self. Jose will do decent but he isn't the second coming of SAF & he is simply not all that 'special'.
Well Valencia is doing better because he suits the game play directed to the new sergeant at United - Ibrahimovic.
Shaw is a defensive fullback much like TFM would be if he played there. Shaw is the best fullback at United but we do not currently play in a system that requires that.
We want attacking fullbacks that are more advanced than the wingers themselves who also happen to be forwards
talk about a mind bender.De gea WC
Bailly - Future star
Shaw- future star
Smalling - More than good enough ie better than cahill
Blind - again probably the best squad rotation player in the league if used right
POgba- WC
Rashford- future star
Martial- Future star
Lingard - Hard worker & at times the right man for the right job
Valencia - 0nly few RB's better than him in the league
TFM- Future star
Herrera- Hard worker
Mkhitarayan- WC unless Jose efd up
Mata- technically as an AM not much better without spending a lot of money
Then
Carrick, Scweinsteiger, Ibrahimovic, Rooney - all arguably was WC and now here for experience.
That to me is as balanced as we can get WITHOUT winning the Pl which we haven't in so long.
It is not 0verhyped; it is that we have some bloody quality youngsters in the first team and even jn the reserves that can be WC but we are either under utilizing them or completely messing up their development by making them fill roles they are not used to.
Valencia is a better full back than Shaw, full stop.
If they were the same age no-one would even contest it, same with Blind.
I'm fairly sure that at this point, José would agree with me.
If we sold Shaw, how much do you think he'd go for now? And what level of club do you think would be starting him in their first 11?
I think he'd fetch a decent fee as he's still young and he's an English international. Minimum 20M in my opinion and that would be very cheap. Shaw has time on his side. He's still very young with high ceiling potential. Blind is a utility player and not a full time fullback but yes he does a job when called upon. In any case Shaw is not on higher wages than both. Blind makes more and Valencia gets the same weekly wages according to various sources. Let's not forget Shaw was in a rich vein of form before his leg injury at PSV and he was considered one of our best outfield players. You just need to look at his thread from last season.
Furthermore, Shaw would get into any of the top four teams at the moment. Liverpool have Milner as their main LB these days FFS. Monreal at Arsenal is not a better leftback than Shaw, he'd definitely have a shot there under Wenger. Guardiola would play him too in all honesty. He fits the project that City are working on. Young, high potential plus he's English. I can see Pep relishing the chance to work with him, mould him like he's doing Stones and Sterling, young English talent. His other options are aging, Kolarov and Clichy. You don't see Shaw fitting in there? Then there's Pochettino who highly rates Shaw and made him a regular at Southampton. He'd get games there in support of Rose and would eventually displace him IMO
Director of football as soon as possible.
Shaw's name keeps reappearing a lot like he is the root of our problems....I guess now that Rooney is not starting we have to focus all the negativity on to Shaw......but let's not forget where we would be if our attackers were not so terrible at finishing. If they had done their job we wouldn't be witch hunting and pretending to know the players attitude and personalities in their everyday lives
I do not know what a defensive fullback or attacking fullback is, and not to argue with you. I only remember last season, early in the season, until Shaw got that terrible injury, he was very very good offensively. He was 1 of the attacking outlet, attacking at will, which made me feel so gutted when he got that terrible tackle by that a55hole.Well Valencia is doing better because he suits the game play directed to the new sergeant at United - Ibrahimovic.
Shaw is a defensive fullback much like TFM would be if he played there. Shaw is the best fullback at United but we do not currently play in a system that requires that.
We want attacking fullbacks that are more advanced than the wingers themselves who also happen to be forwards
I have no issue with overpaid, Utd have paid at least in recent history more for transfers and wages just because of the stature and financial position of the club, I do however think that we have a seriously overhyped squad.
Comapare us to;
City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Spurs
Liverpool
and how many of our players would get into their starting elevens, De Gea maybe but apart for Liverpool it wouldn't be a massive upgrade, more worryingly, compare us to the squads of;
Leicester
West Ham
Everton
and okay they may not be over performing, this season but I still struggle to see that many of our squad waltzing straight into their starting elevens! and therein lies the bind, for the last 6-8 years we have had sub par squads, just SAF got them performing at levels which n o other manager since has been able to come close to!
Comapare us to;
City
Arsenal
Chelsea
Spurs
Liverpool
and how many of our players would get into their starting elevens, De Gea maybe but apart for Liverpool it wouldn't be a massive upgrade, more worryingly, compare us to the squads of;
Leicester
West Ham
Everton
and okay they may not be over performing, this season but I still struggle to see that many of our squad waltzing straight into their starting elevens! and therein lies the bind, for the last 6-8 years we have had sub par squads, just SAF got them performing at levels which n o other manager since has been able to come close to!
I'd happily take.
DDG at GK
Shaw at LB medium term
Bailly for Lovren
Pogba for Gini/Can
Martial in the long term for one of the front 3.
You're massively under-rating your squad. You have some excellent players.
De Gea in every team.
Bailly from what he's shown so far would fit nicely in Liverpool, Chelsea and Arsenal squad.
Shaw would play for City, Arsenal and Liverpool easy. Maybe even for Chelsea if he'd be a bit more offensive.
Herrera could play for Arsenal, City and Liverpool due to his work rate, conditioning and technical abilities.
Pogba even tho he's world class his mobility would pose him problems in teams that are playing high pressing game like City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Ttham but i don't doubt their coaches would love having him in team.
Martial would excell in Arsenal, City and arguably Liverpool since his pacey, agile and has great finishing and technique.
As a first team we're a way below the quality we should be. At our peak we had 4 or 5 on the pitch that'd fit into the world class category and were at their peak.
I know it'll take a bit of time, but that's what we should be aiming for asap imo.
I'd add in Rashford as a rotation striker in any of those squads.
I don't like the 2nd Argument. Most of the players you named are our back up/ carling cup / Europa players. People give too much grief to the players who aren't even the ones who are going to be playing. None of those guys are 1st teamers except Fellaini and he is a Jose favourite. Its like saying, would Navas, Nasri, Fernando, Gnabry, (what ever shite player is on Liverpool bench), would they get into an elite team? course not! so its a moot point.
Also If you look at the sides at the top of the low standard EPL, how many players in each side could get into an elite team? Very Few. De Bruyne could. Aguero may squeeze into Real or Bayern. Sanchez was discarded by an elite team and promptly replaced. So was Ozil. everyone else wouldn't make it. People say Hazard? He could possibly play at Bayern. Costa too. All the others wouldn't get into an elite European Team so it isn't an excuse to be how we are in the Europa Cup and Premier league
Simply because of this statement:
Which implies that it is only him who created his character, the way he was motivated and he drove the team because of his will to win.
It does make sense, but you stated earlier in a post that we have players now who are not clearly good enough to join an elite European team, which again implies that at the time when Sir Alex was manager, we did have those type of players. If we did, then why didn't we win more European Champions leagues? It could be a mixture of reasons to be honest, but it was for me, the only black mark against him, however, to dominate the Premier league against other "quality" teams for years on end, suggests that it could have been Premier league quality only. Either way, his overall performance as manager with the players he has had ha been fantastic and his records will stand the test of time.
You simply have to give players who have had bad injuries in their careers. Players have character and this is why Bryan Robson will always be held in high-esteem at Manchester United. As a left-back earlier on in his career he suffered a broken left leg and then two months later, it was refractured again in a match. A couple of seasons later he broke his right ankle. Perhaps Shaw can adapt to another role and I certainly hope so and as he is young, he surely has to have the benefit of the doubt, since Rooney has been given that ever for his bleak record over the last 4 seasons.
Great post!!
De Bruyne would get into quite a few teams, Aguero, no matter how good he is would simply be a substitute on the bench for either Real Madrid or Barcelona, simply because Real have Ronaldo, Benzema and Bale, and Barcelona have Neymar, Suarez and Messi and not one of those players would be displaced. Alexis Sanchez and Pedro are pretty good players, but as far as Barcelona was concerned, only really good enough to either replace an injured player or simply to be used as substitutes. Hazard is a great little player and he might be able to get into a few top teams, and Costa, the fact he is doing well is an enigma. He wasn't the best striker in la Liga, yet he is the best this season. The mind boggles. To put it bluntly, with respect to Wayne Rooney, if he had been Spanish, he would have been a substitute for a majority of his career if he had been at Real or Barcelona. They demand high standards.
I have this conversation with my brother who says he is attacking fullback.
I however think his defensive game is better than his attacking.
He isn't the best at cross service & this is shown by Jose playing blind at LB to get the best out of Ibrahimovic.
Other defensive fullbacks include - zabaleta, Fabinh0 and TFM. In my opinion the person shaw should emulate is carjaval who is a well rounded defensive fullback who has the ability to have a decent input as an offensive fullback but primarily has a WC ability to hold on to his position -I.E few can actually beat him at his primary position.
On the attacking full back list - Valencia, Alba and Rodriguez sprint to mind. They can be beaten and taken out of position but have more stability afforded by the rest of their defenders to allow them to attack. Their input as fullbacks to the whole team is considerably greater than someone like Shaw.
Some good points. When all is said and done, Shaw's best season was years ago when he was a fearless teenager with no expectation.
Jose Mourinho has reportedly ‘scared off’ a mole that was hindering his pre-match plans by giving away Man United starting line-ups early.
Opponents have been given extra time to perfect their game plans against the Red Devils but Jose Mourinho has successfully stopped the leak after launching his own investigation into the matter.
The report claims that team line-ups were being sent to a Manchester United fan via text message, one of which was seen three hours before the official announcement. However, the issue now looks to have been resolved.
A United insider said last month: “Mourinho is spitting feathers after discovering he’s being betrayed by someone within the club.”
(Teamtalk)
Opponents have been given extra time to perfect their game plans against the Red Devils but Jose Mourinho has successfully stopped the leak after launching his own investigation into the matter.
The report claims that team line-ups were being sent to a Manchester United fan via text message, one of which was seen three hours before the official announcement. However, the issue now looks to have been resolved.
A United insider said last month: “Mourinho is spitting feathers after discovering he’s being betrayed by someone within the club.”
(Teamtalk)
So, here is an updated Pivot table with a graph which includes all managers of Manchester United since I was born give or take a few months:
http://prntscr.com/d5knxg
Edit:
Forgot David Moyes...
http://prntscr.com/d5kq4v
http://prntscr.com/d5knxg
Edit:
Forgot David Moyes...
http://prntscr.com/d5kq4v
Deserves it's own thread, unless it's a joke that I'm not getting or a daft rumour.
Those players I named that I think should be moved on complete our squad. Sure, we'd have a starting 11 if we remove those but what about any depth? A few injuries to our "starting 11" and these players will be called up. Our squad in 2008 and 2009 had brilliant quality even on the bench.
You are rightly saying fringe players from City, Liverpool etc won't get into an elite team. That's why nobody is saying they are elite teams, they will struggle in Europe. To have someone like Aguero on your bench says a lot about the quality of the team don't you think? That's what United should be aiming for.
Remove De Bruyne and Aguero from City, Sanchez and Ozil from Arsenal, Hazard and Costa from Chelsea and tell me they won't struggle in the Premier League. Our squad is realistically worthy of competing for top 4 this season. To say this United squad will walk the league or easily manage top 4 is an overestimation.
We overpaid for players because we were desperate. I don't like bringing it up regularly but the serious lack of investment throughout the Glazers ownership left a squad in dire need of changes, it wasn't an easy transition because results went to shit and the manager's put under massive pressure.
I fully support Mourinho and would sell half the squad before I got rid of him, he knows what it takes to win the premier league and champions league whereas these players have seen us finish 7th/4th and 5th in the last 3 seasons, simply not good enough. Mourinho must be backed to make the necessary changes.
I fully support Mourinho and would sell half the squad before I got rid of him, he knows what it takes to win the premier league and champions league whereas these players have seen us finish 7th/4th and 5th in the last 3 seasons, simply not good enough. Mourinho must be backed to make the necessary changes.
He bought the likes of mkhitaryan, Pogba and Ibra with wages of 140k and 290k and 220k per week respectively. But the likes of Shaw and (70k per week) and Smalling (80k per week) were being labeled as overpaid with ridiculous wages. I remember in Fergie era, Jones got wages of 50k per week and Smalling was about the same as well. This time we all know the market is increased significantly compared to a few years back then. To me Shaw wages isn't considered to be ridiculously overpaid, wages between 50 to 90k per week for first team squad in a big club like Manchester United is normal value. overpaid is what we paid on Pogba, Ibra, Rooney, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin. At least Ibra's shirt selling is massive so 220k per week can still be covered.
If Jose first task is to fix the overpaid and overhyped squad then people who thinks that way have failed because Jose's first summer signings are overpaid.
If Jose first task is to fix the overpaid and overhyped squad then people who thinks that way have failed because Jose's first summer signings are overpaid.
I agree that Bailly looks the real deal, Shaw, Pogba, Martial and Rashford have massive potential, and I love Herrera, but I am not talking about squads, or potential, I am talking about guaranteed 1st eleven.....
Pogba on reputation maybe, not form, but the others sure they would be in the squads, but improving their first teams? don't think so. Even still you have quoted 5 players that would maybe be fringe for the other teams.... how is that not overhyped when we are looking for players good enough to win us the league?
On Herrera, love what he does and he would defo be in most fans and managers squads.... but he is hardly the midfield maestro that dominates and controls games, he is a great player to have as a midfielder alongside Pogba.... past successful squads have shown you need a blend of world class and good players, but world class he aint and starting 11 for most teams in the top 7 or 8 he aint, not if we are looking at replacing Carrick with him!
BTW not trying to hate on lots, just think we are unrealistic, I love the players you have listed and would not want them to be anywherw but Utd, however when they are the best supporting by the likes of Felani, when our strike force is admittedly talented but way over the hill for a league of this energy. We have too many weak and under performing players in and around these players, we are therefore relying on Martial, Rashford ect... to carry the team, it is no wonder we are so often disapointing.
BTW 2, also would not want Mata, Blind, Carrick, Valencia moving on, but yet again guaranteed 1st teamers to win the league... we need more quality.
If I were proper ace at football you would have to pay me loads to live and work in Manchester.
Maybe the solution is to move the club to London, or somewhere just outside like Reading or Swindon. That would be ace because then I would get a season ticket.
Or China...
Maybe the solution is to move the club to London, or somewhere just outside like Reading or Swindon. That would be ace because then I would get a season ticket.
Or China...
Agree with most of the posts. the players are over paid, the club became toxic after Moyes and Gaal and we have lost our values of playing for the badge but also enjoying the game.
The other issue is we don't have a game winner. my issue with buying pogba was simple, he don't win games and u cannot expect to break the record with a player who don't change games
The other issue is we don't have a game winner. my issue with buying pogba was simple, he don't win games and u cannot expect to break the record with a player who don't change games
Only two WC players from your list, and a lot of future stars. That implies we're a team in transition, which we are.
When we were winning titles our entire starting 11 was practically WC (ignoring the last title).
It is interesting that you have only pointed out City, Arsenal and Chelsea as possible strugglers without said players. In fact, it goes to show how bad we really are under Mourinho and that is with players like Wayne Rooney, Herrera, Zlatan and Paul Pogba who start virtually every single match. I think it is safe to say that if we hadn't had the aforementioned players, with a possibly exception to Wayne Rooney; then we would clearly be even further behind. Further to that point, you failed to mention Liverpool, who have some ok players with only Coutinho as the exception. How is it possible for Klopp to get the best out of the others? It is too early, but his man management is similar to Sir Alex Fergusons and it seems that he is capable making his ok players go beyond their maximum potential. Herein, lies the difference between Klopp this season and Mourinho this season. With respect, what Klopp is doing at the moment defines the expression "making a silk purse out of a sow's ear." Whereas Mourinho is doing nothing different to either LVG or David Moyes.
The fact that Moyes and LVG (been infamous throughout his career for being stubborn and hard to work with) aren't exactly player magnets like other managers so in order to get some players to join us we had to reach much deeper in our pocket.
I dont get why anyone would want him sold. He was fantastic before the injury. He deserves plenty of time to prove himself.
Preaching to the converted my friend. Just that most think that at 21, they think he is finished.
When SAF left he left an ageing squad that needed surgery no doubt. Vidic Rio Evra RVP etc etc the problem is what we have bought has not been good enough under both Moyes and LVG. With the exception of Mata and Martial we got rid of better players and the standard dropped (Nani, Evans, Hernandez, Rafael, Fletcher) as opposed (Depay, Fellaini, Rojo, Blind, Morgan, Darmain even Herrera although I'm still hopeful with him has failed to be a regular). With Jose he signed 4 players and 3 of them in my opinion have improved the team 2 (Pogba and Bailley) could be here for next 5-6 years and look very good signings (regardless fees) Zlatan is a good stop gap and Myktarin is still an unknown quantity in this league. Hopefully Jose keeps buying good players and we will soon be back as opposed to the scatter gun and strange signings of our previous two managers.
Please don't compare Shaw to Rojo. Shaw is one of the best/talented players in the world in his position (for his age). Rojo is Rojo and will be moved on when we have our players fit or buy new ones.
As far as I'm concerned, Herrera should be in the team every game. He has performed his job to the best of his abilities and has done really well. His performances against Liverpool, Chelsea and Manchester City attest to this. He cost how much by the way compared to Pogba? As far as the signings are concerned, I would have to say that only Bailly has done his job as regular as clockwork up until his injury. Zlatan nearly broke his own record of going 7 matches without scoring a goal (going back to his Juventus days) until the Swansea match, and Pogba has failed to impress against the big boys so far, by the same token, I don't class Liverpool either as the big boys considering they only really have one good player plus the rest. It is just that Klopp has them functioning like a unit. As for Micky, when he came on against Fenerbaçe, he did quite well, contrary to what Mourinho said in the press. He passed the ball as many times as Zlatan and Mata and his passing accuracy was ok. My opinion on him is that I don't have one. He has not played enough minutes or games to suggest that I have one.
It is with regret that, it will never happen. Both Mourinho and Rojo use the same agent.
Don't think that will be an issue.
I think Bailey has done well I also think contrary to press Pogba looks a class above what we had. I really don't care he cost 90 million as that will work itself out as I think a bit like Ronaldo the fee will look small in a couple of years.