Really - why did so many of you think Mourinho was better than LVG?

[ryansgirl]

Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.

One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.

LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.

However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.

Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.

United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?

 

[Champagne Football]

Mourinho is clearly a better fit by miles. It will take him time to fix the damage caused by 2 managers who were not fit to manage any team in the top 6. Nearly all Van Gaals signings have been duds. We're actually playing really well but just don't have enough quality in the forwards to finish teams off. With one more forward who scores regularly such as a Coutinho, a Hazard, a Sanchez or a De Bruyne and we'll be in good shape...hopefully Mkhitaryan can become that player soon

 

[Snow]

It's foolish to think that United will at all regain their glory days. Very few teams in world football ever have that kind of glory days. United are however much better under Mourinho than they ever were under LvG. LvG never gave me reason for optimism and his football was more boring that Pulis at the height of his Stoke career.

I'm only annoyed at a few players now whilst last season and the season before there were only very few things to be happy about.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

LVG was not good enough and Mourinho has not been good enough so far.

 

[Attila]

Van Gaal made watching football tedious and we didn't seem to be improving during the course of his reign. A lot of his signings have been awful as well...the summer of Depay, Schneiderlin, Schweinsteiger and Darmian comes to mind (that's like around £70m wasted).

I don't miss the 2 shots on target games and I'm glad he's gone. There's no way LVG was putting us back on the right track. He arguably did more damage than Moyes

 

[TheReligion]

Yes, I am saying that some of us 'told you so'. That Louis Van Gaal would bring success in the longer term despite his flaws.
One of the reasons was his extensive experience in pressure cooker clubs. Another was his amazing knowledge of football and his commitment to total football. And he has never been a weak manager and has shown the same quality of Sir Alex - managers have to be strong than the players.
LVG was never going to be given Sir Alex's long-term generous stretch of time by footballing standards to re-build the Manchester United team - that was from a bygone era and the United administration should forever be thanked for sticking by the younger Alex Ferguson when he was struggling to implement a new style and mentality.
However, it was disgraceful the way he LVG was dumped as if he were just any manager who couldn't produce instant results in a middle table club that will never win anything because of the sense of entitlement of the players and administration who set such high standards for managers yet don't live up to them.
Some of us stated long before Mourinho came to Old Trafford that he was not the right person for United. Temperamentally. In terms of footballing style. He's had a very good career - yes. But he should not have been brought in to replace Louis Van Gaal so soon even if some of you thought it was a great idea.
United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?

You're talking absolute rubbish

 

[lem8sh]

The football forum has has hit rock bottom.

 

[bosnian_red]

We are 100x better this season with Mourinho then we were with Van Gaal. We are really good to watch, play quickly, create loads of chances, while being dominant. Van Gaals style was possession with De Gea bailing us out.

 

[Devil may care]

As frustrating as the results have been I have enjoyed a lot of the football we have played this season, under LvG most games were soul destroyingly boring.

 

[Attila]

We are 100x better this season with Mourinho then we were with Van Gaal. We are really good to watch, play quickly, create loads of chances, while being dominant. Van Gaals style was possession with De Gea bailing us out.

And the attack being hoping Martial comes up with something

 

[bosnian_red]

And the attack being hoping Martial comes up with something

Basically. We were about a 2 man team as it gets. Defensively we had games where we looked kind of organized, but far too often De Gea had to bail us out with plenty of saves. Going forward, we literally wouldn't create a chance if Martial wasn't on it. Yes we won the FA cup which was nice, but the football was fecking depressingly shit for 2 whole seasons with the guy. It's actually funny that some people have some strange (and completely wrong) perception of the last 3-4 months of the season. They remember Rashford coming in, a couple of big wins, and winning the FA cup. Suddenly they think we did it all by playing great football, dominating teams, playing on the break and all that shit. No, Rashford was incredibly clinical which glossed over a few performances, and that was always unsustainable. A few decent games, a few awful ones including getting beaten deservedly by liverpool in the europa league which knocked us out, and then missing out on the top 4 at the end even though City tried their absolute hardest to gift it to us.

 

[CS@SG]

Because he won PL champion 18 months ago, so he said himself.

 

[12OunceEpilogue]

The football forum has has hit rock bottom.

We've got Spurs coming up, we haven't seen shit yet.

The 20 minutes after half time yesterday were as bad as anything under Van Gaal. Slow, ponderous passing with zero goal threat, wasting precious time so that we were left hoofing it desperately in the last ten minutes.

I don't want LVG back and I think Mourinho could do good things with us, but we haven't seen a significant improvement from last season regularly enough; our derisory points total tells us that.

 

[TheReligion]

Is it Mourinho's fault that Rashford and Martial have lost form and Zlatan is still missing more than he's scoring?

At what point do the actual players take any responsibility for some of you guys?

 

[bucky]

As frustrating as the results have been I have enjoyed a lot of the football we have played this season, under LvG most games were soul destroyingly boring.

Agreed.

 

[sunama]

United will not regain its glory days under Mourinho - is it sinking in now or do some of you still want to justify getting rid of the man who would have put United back on the right track?

So you gave LVG 2 years, to display his final vision of boring football.
And you have only given Jose 4 months, where the football have been far better, but finished has been poor.

I honestly can't believe that people are giving up on Jose, after 4 months.

 

[Hahao]

Is it Mourinho's fault that Rashford and Martial have lost form and Zlatan is still missing more than he's scoring?

At what point do the actual players take any responsibility for some of you guys?

It actually might as well be Mourinho's fault because for one, Rashford should never be starting. Ditto for Lingard btw. As for Martial, he was playing brilliantly last year, yet he hit a slump but he is being used sporadically and by using him like that he can never really get it going again. And let's not even get into the Mikhitarian bag of worms cuz that would really be opening the Pandora's box. Yes, Mourinho's player management and team selection have been terrible. In that respect at least, LVG was better by a mile.

However, LVG had to be fired. There was no sense of progress and our soccer was very dull, boring and even outdated. I definitely wanted Mourinho because I saw him as someone with a winning mentality, someone that wins wherever he goes and I thought the bad season with Chelsea was a fluke but it might have been both ignorance and wishful thinking on my part. I was wrong and I think that we made a mistake with Mourinho. Whatever he had before, he either lost it or soccer today is different and he can't quite catch up to the nuances of the modern game but it does feel like it's passed him by a bit and the bad season at Chelsea was no fluke, it was a sign of things to come.

So to summarize, LVG had to go. Hiring Mourinho made sense at the time but it's turning into a very bad decision. Not making the Champions League again is a paramount disaster and it looks like that's what's going to happen. A bitter pill to swallow but what can you do. I can't be really mad at the front office for hiring Mourinho, it absolutely made sense at the time, he was the best option and the most reasonable one as well.

 

[Charlie Foley]

If Mourinho fails it is by no reason a guarantee that LVG would have succeeded.

By that logic the flaws of LVG's reign displayed the merits of Moyes still being manager.

 

[Stack]

So you gave LVG 2 years, to display his final vision of boring football.
And you have only given Jose 4 months, where the football have been far better, but finished has been poor.

I honestly can't believe that people are giving up on Jose, after 4 months.

All of those who opposed Jose's appointment were mocked mercilessly by those who wanted Mourinho. When Mourinho was appointed this place was giddy with joy and the overwhelming and I really mean overwhelming expectation was that we would be challenging for the title and Champions league place right away.
We wont be challenging for the title this season and its going to be a battle to make it to Champions League qualification.
So for all of those (a nice big number of people) who were so strident in their belief Jose was going to have us challenging for titles right away, please explain WTF happened to all those predictions and expectations? Do you all move the goalposts now?

 

[TheReligion]

It actually might as well be Mourinho's fault because for one, Rashford should never be starting. Ditto for Lingard btw. As for Martial, he was playing brilliantly last year, yet he hit a slump but he is being used sporadically and by using him like that he can never really get it going again. And let's not even get into the Mikhitarian bag of worms cuz that would really be opening the Pandora's box. Yes, Mourinho's player management and team selection have been terrible. In that respect at least, LVG was better by a mile.

However, LVG had to be fired. There was no sense of progress and our soccer was very dull, boring and even outdated. I definitely wanted Mourinho because I saw him as someone with a winning mentality, someone that wins wherever he goes and I thought the bad season with Chelsea was a fluke but it might have been both ignorance and wishful thinking on my part. I was wrong and I think that we made a mistake with Mourinho. Whatever he had before, he either lost it or soccer today is different and he can't quite catch up to the nuances of the modern game but it does feel like it's passed him by a bit and the bad season at Chelsea was no fluke, it was a sign of things to come.

So to summarize, LVG had to go. Hiring Mourinho made sense at the time but it's turning into a very bad decision. Not making the Champions League again is a paramount disaster and it looks like that's what's going to happen. A bitter pill to swallow but what can you do. I can't be really mad at the front office for hiring Mourinho, it absolutely made sense at the time, he was the best option and the most reasonable one as well.

If mourinho didn't play Rashford and Lingard people would moan about him and youth.

The man can't win whatever he does.

 

[Hahao]

All of those who opposed Jose's appointment were mocked mercilessly by those who wanted Mourinho. When Mourinho was appointed this place was giddy with joy and the overwhelming and I really mean overwhelming expectation was that we would be challenging for the title and Champions league place right away.
We wont be challenging for the title this season and its going to be a battle to make it to Champions League qualification.
So for all of those (a nice big number of people) who were so strident in their belief Jose was going to have us challenging for titles right away, please explain WTF happened to all those predictions and expectations? Do you all move the goalposts now?

I have no problem admitting I was wrong. If someone told me at that time when we hired Mourinho, especially after landing Pogba, Zlatan, Mikhi that we would most likely miss top 4, I would freak. I definitely expected us to dominate this year.
I understand people preaching patience but not making top 4 is terrible. No two ways about it. It's just awful.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

Is it Mourinho's fault that Rashford and Martial have lost form and Zlatan is still missing more than he's scoring?

At what point do the actual players take any responsibility for some of you guys?

Yeah Mourinho is responsible for getting players to perform. It is sort of his job.

 

[TheReligion]

Yeah Mourinho is responsible for getting players to perform. It is sort of his job.

What do you suggest he does Einstein?

 

[Hahao]

If mourinho didn't play Rashford and Lingard people would moan about him and youth.

The man can't win whatever he does.

Rashford is a super sub. He needs to play but shouldn't be starting. Lingard, in all honesty, I don't think anyone would be mad if he never played for us again. No one really thinks highly of him. Most agree that he is a squad player at best, most think he isn't United quality and I would be inclined to agree.
On the other hand Martial could become special, he is a real talent. And Mikhitarian is proven as well.
Jose's team selection is probably what has cost us some 10 points so far. All those draws vs Burnley, Stoke, games where we didn't score...well...might have helped if we actually played our best players.

 

[r0663664]

I don't think hiring Mourinho is wrong. I am very disappointed with his start but I still believe he will bring us glory in the next 2-3 years. The difference between LVG and Jose is experience in EPL, LVG doesn't know what it takes to be successful in the English games whereas Jose has won the title in both stints with Chelsea. Yes, we may finished outside Top 4 or win nothing this year but next year, we will compete for top honours just like Chelsea and Liverpool with no Europe games. Jose will get 2 more transfer windows to get the team right. I think he will find a CB, winger maybe 1 more CM. We are on top in the last 4 home games, it seems that all the goal keepers playing the match of their life to give their team a draw. As long as this team continue to create and dominate possession, we will likely win most of our team. We just need 1-2 transfer window to tweak our team.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

What do you suggest he does Einstein?

Mourinho is the one who is getting paid handsomely to figure that out. If I had the answers I would not be here arguing with people on a Sunday night.

 

[CS@SG]

I don't think hiring Mourinho is wrong. I am very disappointed with his start but I still believe he will bring us glory in the next 2-3 years. The difference between LVG and Jose is experience in EPL, LVG doesn't know what it takes to be successful in the English games whereas Jose has won the title in both stints with Chelsea. Yes, we may finished outside Top 4 or win nothing this year but next year, we will compete for top honours just like Chelsea and Liverpool with no Europe games. Jose will get 2 more transfer windows to get the team right. I think he will find a CB, winger maybe 1 more CM. We are on top in the last 4 home games, it seems that all the goal keepers playing the match of their life to give their team a draw. As long as this team continue to create and dominate possession, we will likely win most of our team. We just need 1-2 transfer window to tweak our team.

If there is need of 1, 2 transfer windows, then it is not just a "tweak". Just buy a new team to play his football then.

Conte's work on Chelsea, is a "tweak".

 

[Cantonagotmehere]

We are 100x better this season with Mourinho then we were with Van Gaal. We are really good to watch, play quickly, create loads of chances, while being dominant. Van Gaals style was possession with De Gea bailing us out.

Exactly. Great post. I liked LVG the man, but the football this year has been much better in my humble opinion.

There is just no patience in this place. Like sports fans most places these days I guess. Seems the guttersnipe media has an influence.

 

[Theonas]

Mourinho is the one who is getting paid handsomely to figure that out. If I had the answers I would not be here arguing with people on a Sunday night.

Perfect response to that kind of logic. I never understand it when people argue "Well what would you do?". It's like going to a restaurant and being told you can't judge the food to be $hite unless you can cook it better yourself. Ridiculous.

 

[Raoul]

You're talking absolute rubbish

And doing so with rubbish formatting.

 

[Theonas]

If there is need of 1, 2 transfer windows, then it is not just a "tweak". Just buy a new team to play his football then.

Conte's work on Chelsea, is a "tweak".

Are you insane? Everybody knows that in order to be decent at football, you need 24 world class established players that the manager hand selects himself. Anything less like say buying the star names from Italy, Germany and France plus a number of established internationals and CL winners is totally unreasonable.

 

[redzombie]

In LVG's first season there were signs (briefly) that he may have been able to build something at UTD, unfortunately his second year completely destroyed any notion that he was advancing the club in any meaningful way. He under invested in the squad, sold to many players and left us criminally lacking in many departments.

His foray into our academy only emphasized his deficiencies in the previous windows. It was all well and good promoting player after player from the youth to give them a minute here and a minute there to fill in the gaps in the squad, but to drop them as soon as they put a foot wrong (TFM (FA cup semi) and CBJ as soon as Rojo was fit for the cup final, was no way to develop talent not to mention completely omitting arguably our best prospect (Perera) from barely a minutes football.

I find it hard to understand the "love in" for a manager that was showing no signs of progressing our football with his unbending "philosophy" that bored most of us to the core week in week out. You only need watch five minutes of our play to see exactly how better things are now, this is positive, attacking, entertaining football we are playing each week. The results are not there yet, but its way too soon for the "I told you so" posts.

 

[TheReligion]

And doing so with rubbish formatting.

Ban her. You know it makes sense.

 

[TheReligion]

Mourinho is the one who is getting paid handsomely to figure that out. If I had the answers I would not be here arguing with people on a Sunday night.

Insightfull as always.

 

[Theonas]

In LVG's first season there were signs (briefly) that he may have been able to build something at UTD, unfortunately his second year completely destroyed any notion that he was advancing the club in any meaningful way. He under invested in the squad, sold to many players and left us criminally lacking in many departments.

His foray into our academy only emphasized his deficiencies in the previous windows. It was all well and good promoting player after player from the youth to give them a minute here and a minute there to fill in the gaps in the squad, but to drop them as soon as they put a foot wrong (TFM (FA cup semi) and CBJ as soon as Rojo was fit for the cup final, was no way to develop talent not to mention completely omitting arguably our best prospect (Perera) from barely a minutes football.

I find it hard to understand the "love in" for a manager that was showing no signs of progressing our football with his unbending "philosophy" that bored most of us to the core week in week out. You only need watch five minutes of our play to see exactly how better things are now, this is positive, attacking, entertaining football we are playing each week. The results are not there yet, but its way too soon for the "I told you so" posts.

It is not each week. The only decent team we did it against was Arsenal. Liverpool, Chelsea and City made us look like an inferior team that is trying to punch above its weight. We look better this year because we have better individuals. Pogba and Zlatan produced some very strong moments of individual brilliance + we huff and puff much more as in we throw a lot of ball around the box and create more scrambles. We do not however open up defences the same way Liverpool or City do with the exception of the Burnley game.

 

[Devil may care]

Perfect response to that kind of logic. I never understand it when people argue "Well what would you do?". It's like going to a restaurant and being told you can't judge the food to be $hite unless you can cook it better yourself. Ridiculous.

In fairness I don't see how Mourinho can give them composure in front of goal, does Ibra really need Jose to teach him how to finish? Today alone saw Ibra, Rashford and Lingard all miss sitters, the points dropped at home are down to lack of clinical finishing, that's on the players.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

In fairness I don't see how Mourinho can give them composure in front of goal, does Ibra really need Jose to teach him how to finish? Today alone saw Ibra, Rashford and Lingard all miss sitters, the points dropped at home are down to lack of clinical finishing, that's on the players.

But, if we were winning matches and were in first place because of unteachable moments of brilliance from Zlatan, Rashford, etc Mourinho will be getting a ton of praise. It is how it is and how it has always been. When a club is playing well the manager gets a lot of credit when they are not the finger will be pointed at them. Mourinho has his reputation in World Football and has commanded huge wages in his career because he has consistently gotten results when he is not getting results questions should be asked.

 

[Devil may care]

But, if we were winning matches and were in first place because of unteachable moments of brilliance from Zlatan, Rashford, etc Mourinho will be getting a ton of praise. It is how it is and how it has always been. When a club is playing well the manager gets a lot of credit when they are not the finger will be pointed at them. Mourinho has his reputation in World Football and has commanded huge wages in his career because he has consistently gotten results when he is not getting results questions should be asked.

They aren't moments of brilliance, these are run of the mill bread and butter chances these players are squandering, the team is set up well, we are attacking well so clearly the training drills and attacking patterns we have worked on are working to create the chances, so yes the question has to be asked why we are losing so many points and the answer is that the players are not fullfilling their end.

 

[Theonas]

In fairness I don't see how Mourinho can give them composure in front of goal, does Ibra really need Jose to teach him how to finish? Today alone saw Ibra, Rashford and Lingard all miss sitters, the points dropped at home are down to lack of clinical finishing, that's on the players.

I actually don't think we are creating all that many chances apart from the Burnley game. We have more individual quality in the form of Pogba, Mata and Zlatan and we play the ball in the box quicker than before which results in more scrambles but this is more huffing and puffing rather than quality offensive football. Furthermore, Mourinho made it his mission throughout his career to make it all about results regardless of how. He mocked managers who talk about philosophy or have defined footballing principles like Wenger and Guardiola. A lot of his fans support that view which is fair enough even if I don't agree with it. The downside however is that if you choose to make it solely about results and pride yourself in delivering them no matter how, the second you don't win, you have nothing to argue your case.

 

[Keeps It tidy]

They aren't moments of brilliance, these are run of the mill bread and butter chances these players are squandering, the team is set up well, we are attacking well so clearly the training drills and attacking patterns we have worked on are working to create the chances, so yes the question has to be asked why we are losing so many points and the answer is that the players are not fullfilling their end.

A club almost always underperforms because the players are not fulfilling their end. But, it is the manager's job to make sure the players are fulfilling their end. When a team is not up to standard both sides need to take blame.