The Spurs thread | 2016-2017 season | Serious thread - wummers/derailers will be threadbanned

[Random Task]

That's a very funny post, Spurs fans having a sense of entitlement is about as realistic as our chances of winning the league.

This is what seperates supporters of clubs like ours and supporters of some other high profile clubs.

Outside of North London, Herts & Essex, parts of Bucks it would be pretty unusual to find a Spurs fan unless they've moved away from the area that they grew up in. The actual best thing about our club is the fanbase because you support Spurs for one of only 2 reasons or both, you grew up locally or your family did and then moved out, that's pretty much it. Decades in the footballing wilderness hasn't dampened our support. You don't support Spurs because we win things, you support Spurs because it's in your blood. Thankfully there are no fickle glory hunting fans that believe they support our club, no so called Spurs fans born and raised in Exeter or Reigate. It's local and or it's family, and that's it and another 50 years in the wilderness won't change it, the same as it won't for West Ham, Leeds or Newcastle.

That's why a sense of entitlement doesn't exist at Spurs and other clubs like us, it's not about winning trophys and chasing glory, it's about something far more important than that, there's a far deeper and more meaningful attachment than seeking glory.

You didn't need that last paragraph, mate. It was a good post up to that point.

Assuming that all Spurs fans possess a sense of entitlement would be unjust indeed. It would be equally unjust to accuse all United fans of being glory hunters, which you clearly alluded to in the latter stages of your post. Making a generalized statement is never really fair, it's just what we do as football fans when it comes to engaging in "Topbantz" with supporters of opposing clubs.

The Spurs fans I have met since working in London for the past couple of years have been absolute tools, every single one. I mean that sincerely, I haven't met a solitary Spurs supporter of whom I've enjoyed debating football with and since we base our opinions entirely on our own experiences then, yeah, it's safe to assume that every Spurs fan on the planet has a sense of entitlement with regards to their clubs success (or lack their of ).

Admittedly the initial part of your post does go along in dispelling that myth, though.

 

[Rozay]

I must say, they look to have a player in Harry Winks. been very impressed with him so far. Very graceful on the ball. That said, I felt similarly about Tom Carroll.

 

[Lash]

Modric does too.

That said, Pogba will almost certainly become better than modric though.

Yeah, maybe i've not watched the right Madrid games. I always though he put a shift in, but was relatively light in that role.

 

[balaks]

I must say, they look to have a player in Harry Winks. been very impressed with him so far. Very graceful on the ball. That said, I felt similarly about Tom Carroll.

Yeah I like him too - I think he has more going for him than Carroll though and has a real chance at making it. Early days of course.

 

[Rozay]

Yeah I like him too - I think he has more going for him than Carroll though and has a real chance at making it. Early days of course.

Yea he looks good.

I must say that Josh Onomoah has not once impressed me though, although Poch seems to rate him very highly, and he's rarely left out of a match-day squad.

 

[balaks]

Yea he looks good.

I must say that Josh Onomoah has not once impressed me though, although Poch seems to rate him very highly, and he's rarely left out of a match-day squad.

He is ok - not as obviously talented as Winks is but that may be down to him not having a defined role yet - he can play several positions but is generally a central midfielder in the youth teams. Poch seems to rate him though.

 

[giorno]

Yeah, maybe i've not watched the right Madrid games. I always though he put a shift in, but was relatively light in that role.

Deoends on the oppos, really. Against the really good sides, he turns into an interception machine. I've seen him single-handedly dominate the barca and atletico midfields by always being in the right place at the right time. His reading of the game from 30 yards up is incredible, like WC DM level. He's pretty bad at defending in the last 3rd though.

 

[Lash]

Deoends on the oppos, really. Against the really good sides, he turns into an interception machine. I've seen him single-handedly dominate the barca and atletico midfields by always being in the right place at the right time. His reading of the game from 30 yards up is incredible, like WC DM level. He's pretty bad at defending in the last 3rd though.

Yeah that makes sense, does go to show they have totally separate skill sets and the comparison is a strange one.

 

[Vashu]

´My leg didn´t work after one in a million knee injury´ - Alderweireld

http://www.scoresway.com/?sport=soccer&page=news&view=article&news_id=894160

Toby Alderweireld is relieved to be back in action with Tottenham after a "one in a million" knee injury left the club's medical staff baffled as to how much football he was going to miss.

The Belgium international sustained damage to his knee in Spurs' 1-1 draw with West Brom on October 15 after colliding with team-mate Jan Vertonghen, but initial scans failed to reveal the extent of the problem, with ligament issues ruled out.

Eventually it was determined that a nerve in his knee had "shut down", rendering his leg almost useless and ultimately ruling him out for almost two months.

Due to the nature of nerve injuries, Spurs' medical staff were unable to hypothesise over the length of his absence, but now he is back on the pitch he insists he feels even better than before.

"It was an unusual injury, one in a million," he told Standard Sport. "It almost never happens in football.

"I got a hard knock on the nerve on the right side of my knee, so the nerve was shut down. All of my leg was shut down.

"When that happens, it takes a long time to 'restart' the nerve again, so it wasn't an injury you could put a time limit on. If you pull a hamstring, you will probably be out for four to six weeks. With a nerve, you don't know.

"My leg didn't work and I had to start all over again. The nature of the problem also meant that for a while, my foot didn't work properly, so I had do as much recovery work as possible without using my foot.

"I could walk, but not as I normally would, because it was difficult to lift up my foot. It was difficult for the medical staff to put a time on my recovery because we didn't know. It could have been two weeks, six weeks, maybe three months more.

"We just had to do everything we could to stimulate the nerve and ensure I could come back as quickly as possible. It was very frustrating, but I had to use the frustration to work as hard as possible and be ready to come back.

"I knew that when the nerve started working normally again, I had to be able to play as quickly as possible, and that was my motivation. I feel fit, even better than I did, and I'm hungry to help the team.

"It felt good to be back on the pitch against CSKA Moscow and Manchester United. I worked hard for it. Sometimes these things can happen but now I think I am 100 per cent."

I thought it's interesting.

 

[Cassidy]

If he was even half as good as you think he would have walked into the PL and torn it up, he hasn't and doesn't look likely too anytime soon, but he has undoubtedly improved the team.

But he doesnt have a cat in hells chance of reaching Modric's level, there's just a huge gulf in ability let alone footballing intelligence. After Xavi Modric is the best central midfield player of a generation. That said its not a fair stick to hit other players with.

As for Dele, rumour is PSG are going to table a £50m bid, if we took it and he went then by 23 he will also have plenty of titles and awards to his name, but it won't improve his level.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

You seriously think that going to a weak league like France would improve Adele Alli's level? Of course you are entitled to that opinion but I'm surprised it causes such hilarity as I'm sure most would agree that he would learn more in a much more competitive environment.

 

[Cassidy]

You seriously think that going to a weak league like France would improve Adele Alli's level? Of course you are entitled to that opinion but I'm surprised it causes such hilarity as I'm sure most would agree that he would learn more in a much more competitive environment.

He would improve being a UCL regular and playing with the likes of Verrati (a much better midfielder than he is right now), Rabiot and Krychwaik I mean going to such a weak league at a young age really hurt Verrati didn't it....

The crap about weak leagues and player development is played out. Most of the top players don't tend to develop in the PL if you hadn't noticed, they tend to have been developed in "weaker less competitive leagues" but anyway

EDIT: As for Pogba not having a chance of reaching Modric level lets come back in 5/6 years and see

 

[balaks]

Sir Percy you really do talk some complete tosh sometimes.

 

[Burrow]

You know your supporter base is terrible when @balaks has to be the voice of reason.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Sir Percy you really do talk some complete tosh sometimes.

Such kind of WUMS are getting really annoying, wonder what they must do for a ban.

 

[Attila]

If he was even half as good as you think he would have walked into the PL and torn it up, he hasn't and doesn't look likely too anytime soon, but he has undoubtedly improved the team.

But he doesnt have a cat in hells chance of reaching Modric's level, there's just a huge gulf in ability let alone footballing intelligence. After Xavi Modric is the best central midfield player of a generation. That said its not a fair stick to hit other players with.

As for Dele, rumour is PSG are going to table a £50m bid, if we took it and he went then by 23 he will also have plenty of titles and awards to his name, but it won't improve his level.

Now that's just nonsense

 

[SirHenryPercy]

He would improve being a UCL regular and playing with the likes of Verrati (a much better midfielder than he is right now), Rabiot and Krychwaik I mean going to such a weak league at a young age really hurt Verrati didn't it....

The crap about weak leagues and player development is played out. Most of the top players don't tend to develop in the PL if you hadn't noticed, they tend to have been developed in "weaker less competitive leagues" but anyway

EDIT: As for Pogba not having a chance of reaching Modric level lets come back in 5/6 years and see

I take your point but I still really don't see how it's hilarious to think that Alli will improve his level greater in the Premier League than in France.

He will play against better players managed by better managers week in week out in the premier League than he will in France. In fact Alli himself said this week when asked about PSG that he's in the right environment to develop.

The reason that most players develop in weaker leagues before coming to the Premier League is because with the exception of LaLiga and quite possibly the Bundesliga the other leagues are all weaker and not too much of the top talent comes here from Spain or Germany.

If Alli did want to move abroad to develop his game then he should be looking at La Liga as that's the best and he would be playing with or against the worlds best players.

As for Pogba, would be very happy to visit again in 5 or 6 years, IMHO he doesn't have the footballing intelligence to reach a player of Modric's level, but as I've said repeatedly that isn't a slight on Pogba as there are very few players operating that are capable of reaching such a high level.

 

[Kraftwerker]

I take your point but I still really don't see how it's hilarious to think that Alli will improve his level greater in the Premier League than in France.

He will play against better players managed by better managers week in week out in the premier League than he will in France. In fact Alli himself said this week when asked about PSG that he's in the right environment to develop.

The reason that most players develop in weaker leagues before coming to the Premier League is because with the exception of LaLiga and quite possibly the Bundesliga the other leagues are all weaker and not too much of the top talent comes here from Spain or Germany.

If Alli did want to move abroad to develop his game then he should be looking at La Liga as that's the best and he would be playing with or against the worlds best players.

As for Pogba, would be very happy to visit again in 5 or 6 years, IMHO he doesn't have the footballing intelligence to reach a player of Modric's level, but as I've said repeatedly that isn't a slight on Pogba as there are very few players operating that are capable of reaching such a high level.

The exact same is true of Pogba. Difficult to think of many midfielders who combine his supreme technique with his physical gifts. He is a freak of nature. It's almost unfair to be that good with the ball but also have that physique.

Already this season he's scored more goals than Modric has ever managed in any of his full seasons at Spurs or Real Madrid. He also asssists at a higher rate than Modric. He'll comfortably finish the season with double figures for both. So many aspects of his game are already ahead of Modric. Then other parts he has years and years to work on them.

Pogba's name will ring out in history more than Modric's. That's no slight on Modric. There aren't many midfielders capable of reaching Pogba's level.

 

[Sweech]

A bit rich reading all the Danny Rose comments from those who play Marcos Rojo.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

A bit rich reading all the Danny Rose comments from those who play Marcos Rojo.

Rose has turned into a very good LB going both ways.

Can only think that the supposed interest from City and to a lesser extent Chelsea (because they know they have no chance) is genuine.

Poch and the coaching staff have done an excellent job with him and he's surpassing most of our expectations. He's one player who's level hasn't dipped from last season.

 

[itso 7]

I take your point but I still really don't see how it's hilarious to think that Alli will improve his level greater in the Premier League than in France.

He will play against better players managed by better managers week in week out in the premier League than he will in France. In fact Alli himself said this week when asked about PSG that he's in the right environment to develop.

The reason that most players develop in weaker leagues before coming to the Premier League is because with the exception of LaLiga and quite possibly the Bundesliga the other leagues are all weaker and not too much of the top talent comes here from Spain or Germany.

If Alli did want to move abroad to develop his game then he should be looking at La Liga as that's the best and he would be playing with or against the worlds best players.

As for Pogba, would be very happy to visit again in 5 or 6 years, IMHO he doesn't have the footballing intelligence to reach a player of Modric's level, but as I've said repeatedly that isn't a slight on Pogba as there are very few players operating that are capable of reaching such a high level.

i think this bullshit is spread by pseudo football intellectuals who are overstating the importance of controlling midfielders like Scholes, Modric, Pirlo etc which leads to understating the importance/greatness of pure physical beasts, defensive players or players like Gerard and Pogba. Imo the latter group looks easy on the eye but you can also win titles playing a Makalele - Vieira - Gerard 3 men midfield for example, like what Mourinho did in his first stint at Chelsea. The point being that Pogba doesn't have to add Modric like qualities to be a great midfielder, perfecting the ones he already possesses will just do, for me if he perfects his attacking game by scoring and assisting more - if he becomes a 15-20 goal a season midfielder with assists to boot he will have reached the level of the greats in his own way.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

I wonder if we are going to see Poch go more regularly with 3 at the back, we seem to have the perfect personnel for this. I thought and suggested that it was possible we would go this way at Utd but maybe Poch thought it was too big a test to tinker with it there, although he did at Arsenal where I thought we largely controlled the game

.........Dier.......Alderweireld......Verts
Walker...........................................Rose
...........Wanyama.....Dembele​

Does look very secure and Walker and Rose are perfect in terms of energy for this system and even Trippier and Rose would fit it better.

In my opinion we are currently a quality attacking player short and this could help to address that issue, will be interesting to see, but I definitely expect to see this against Burnley (Dembele if fit).

 

[balaks]

The exact same is true of Pogba. Difficult to think of many midfielders who combine his supreme technique with his physical gifts. He is a freak of nature. It's almost unfair to be that good with the ball but also have that physique.

Already this season he's scored more goals than Modric has ever managed in any of his full seasons at Spurs or Real Madrid. He also asssists at a higher rate than Modric. He'll comfortably finish the season with double figures for both. So many aspects of his game are already ahead of Modric. Then other parts he has years and years to work on them.

Pogba's name will ring out in history more than Modric's. That's no slight on Modric. There aren't many midfielders capable of reaching Pogba's level.

To be fair, if you looked at stats such as goals and assists you would probably think Modric was a very average player but anybody who understands football who watches him play knows that he is an absolutely top class player. To compare Pogba to Modric is completely pointless as they are very different players. Pobga has fantastic potential and will be an amazing player, no doubt about it but you cant compare him to Modric as they are completely different in terms of style of play.

 

[balaks]

I wonder if we are going to see Poch go more regularly with 3 at the back, we seem to have the perfect personnel for this. I thought and suggested that it was possible we would go this way at Utd but maybe Poch thought it was too big a test to tinker with it there, although he did at Arsenal where I thought we largely controlled the game.

Dier Alderweireld Vertonghen
Walker Rose
Wanyama Dembele

Does look very secure and Walker and Rose are perfect in terms of energy for this system and even Trippier and Rose would fit it better.

In my opinion we are currently a quality attacking player short and this could help to address that issue, will be interesting to see, but I definitely expect to see this against Burnley (Dembele if fit).

It does solve the lack of width in our team so in that sense it is good - also it gives Eriksen a free role which seems to get the best out of him. Will be interesting to see if he uses the formation more often.

 

[NK86]

To be fair, if you looked at stats such as goals and assists you would probably think Modric was a very average player but anybody who understands football who watches him play knows that he is an absolutely top class player. To compare Pogba to Modric is completely pointless as they are very different players. Pobga has fantastic potential and will be an amazing player, no doubt about it but you cant compare him to Modric as they are completely different in terms of style of play.

You cannot even compare Zidane and Modric as they are different types of midfielders but anyone with a set of eyes and a half working brain would know that Zidane was a level or two above Modric.

That being said, Modric has developed into a WC player but in due course, IMO, Pogba will surpass him by some distance.

 

[VanGaalEra]

You seriously think that going to a weak league like France would improve Adele Alli's level? Of course you are entitled to that opinion but I'm surprised it causes such hilarity as I'm sure most would agree that he would learn more in a much more competitive environment.

typo or just not very happy with him lol.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

typo or just not very happy with him lol.

Haha, a bit of both!

 

[SirHenryPercy]

You cannot even compare Zidane and Modric as they are different types of midfielders but anyone with a set of eyes and a half working brain would know that Zidane was a level or two above Modric.

That being said, Modric has developed into a WC player but in due course, IMO, Pogba will surpass him by some distance.

Exactly, they've both operated in similar areas, played in 2's, played in 3's and they both influence games so it's daft to say you can't compare an apple with an apple just because they are different in size and shape.

The rest is just down to opinion, which I thought was one of the things that made football so great, the difference in opinions.

Yet others think if you have a different one to theirs then you are a WUM.

 

[NK86]

Exactly, they've both operated in similar areas, played in 2's, played in 3's and they both influence games so it's daft to say you can't compare an apple with an apple just because they are different in size and shape.

The rest is just down to opinion, which I thought was one of the things that made football so great, the difference in opinions.

Yet others think if you have a different one to theirs then you are a WUM.

To be fair, your opinion is so frickin unpopular that it borders on wumming. To say that one of the best young talents in the world won't ever reach the level of Modric - who is a world class CM but won't be considered as a GOAT contender ever. If you had said the same for Pogba and Xavi, you may have had takers for that opinion but Luka Modric! Kroos outshines him many times, let alone Pogba 4-5 years down the line.

 

[SirHenryPercy]

To be fair, your opinion is so frickin unpopular that it borders on wumming. To say that one of the best young talents in the world won't ever reach the level of Modric - who is a world class CM but won't be considered as a GOAT contender ever. If you had said the same for Pogba and Xavi, you may have had takers for that opinion but Luka Modric! Kroos outshines him many times, let alone Pogba 4-5 years down the line.

No my opinion so is so unpopular with Utd fans and maybe other members of this board, which I fully understand. However it's not out of kilter with many other football fans that I know, which is over a fair few clubs.

I also don't see that many so called football professionals or experts falling over themselves that Pogba is a rare talent.

At the end of the day it's a game of opinions, some of the posters here call Kane a player with nearly 60 PL goals in just over 80 appearances a donkey. That's fair enough, I think it's a nonsense but I respect the opinion and don't think they are WUM's, it's just what they think.

 

[NK86]

No my opinion so is so unpopular with Utd fans and maybe other members of this board, which I fully understand. However it's not out of kilter with many other football fans that I know, which is over a fair few clubs.

I also don't see that many so called football professionals or experts falling over themselves that Pogba is a rare talent.

At the end of the day it's a game of opinions, some of the posters here call Kane a player with nearly 60 PL goals in just over 80 appearances a donkey. That's fair enough, I think it's a nonsense but I respect the opinion and don't think they are WUM's, it's just what they think.

Which football professionals are you referring to here? Owen and the lot on Sky who bent over backwards to fawn over Rooney when he has been absolute tosh over the last couple of years?

As for fans, I too know many fans of rival teams who feel Pogba is the real deal and a future Ballon d'Or nominee. So it works both ways. I am not saying your opinion is right or wrong - as you rightly pointed out it is just an opinion. However, it is outlandish and many people are calling you out on it.

 

[Bale Bale Bale]

I wonder if we are going to see Poch go more regularly with 3 at the back, we seem to have the perfect personnel for this. I thought and suggested that it was possible we would go this way at Utd but maybe Poch thought it was too big a test to tinker with it there, although he did at Arsenal where I thought we largely controlled the game

.........Dier.......Alderweireld......Verts
Walker...........................................Rose
...........Wanyama.....Dembele​

Does look very secure and Walker and Rose are perfect in terms of energy for this system and even Trippier and Rose would fit it better.

In my opinion we are currently a quality attacking player short and this could help to address that issue, will be interesting to see, but I definitely expect to see this against Burnley (Dembele if fit).

Wanyama and Dembele together is a no. Defensively strong, yes, but the two together simply can't move the ball quickly or aggressively enough. Dembele for all his eye-catching strength and centre circle dribbling doesn't actually achieve much in an offensive sense.

 

[RedSky]

I wonder if we are going to see Poch go more regularly with 3 at the back, we seem to have the perfect personnel for this. I thought and suggested that it was possible we would go this way at Utd but maybe Poch thought it was too big a test to tinker with it there, although he did at Arsenal where I thought we largely controlled the game

.........Dier.......Alderweireld......Verts
Walker...........................................Rose
...........Wanyama.....Dembele​

Does look very secure and Walker and Rose are perfect in terms of energy for this system and even Trippier and Rose would fit it better.

In my opinion we are currently a quality attacking player short and this could help to address that issue, will be interesting to see, but I definitely expect to see this against Burnley (Dembele if fit).

............Loris...........
.........Dier.......Alderweireld......Verts
Walker...........................................Rose
.......Wanyama.....Alli
...............Son....Kane....Eriksen
​

You could switch out one of Dembele/Wanyama for Alli and then have Son in the final 3. That might provide better balance and you've got a mean defense anyway. Gives you the option of rotating Dembele, Winks and Sissoko in the middle.

 

[giorno]

You cannot even compare Zidane and Modric as they are different types of midfielders but anyone with a set of eyes and a half working brain would know that Zidane was a level or two above Modric.

Actually, they are pretty similar. Zidane was more of a #10, being more involved in the final third and not as much on defence, and was obviously a level or two above, but in terms of types of player, they were similar

 

[Kraftwerker]

To be fair, if you looked at stats such as goals and assists you would probably think Modric was a very average player but anybody who understands football who watches him play knows that he is an absolutely top class player. To compare Pogba to Modric is completely pointless as they are very different players. Pobga has fantastic potential and will be an amazing player, no doubt about it but you cant compare him to Modric as they are completely different in terms of style of play.

Read back. That was my point from the start, that it was stupid to compare them. Like comparing Patrick Vieira to Paul Scholes. Neither was ever a reference point for the other.

But Sir Henry Percy kept banging the drum that Pogba doesn't deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as Modric, which is obviously nonsense when it's quite clear some major elements of Pogba's game are out of Modric's reach. Whereas I wouldn't say any aspects of Modric's game are out of Pogba's reach. Though I would never expect him to become an extremely astute ball cycling possession retainer like Modric. His game is much more built around risk, and he's the better for it.

 

[NK86]

Actually, they are pretty similar. Zidane was more of a #10, being more involved in the final third and not as much on defence, and was obviously a level or two above, but in terms of types of player, they were similar

Modric doesn't have the creativity or the goal threat of a Zidane. Plus Modric anchors the midfield, if I am not mistaken, and is more of a deep lying playmaker.

 

[giorno]

Modric doesn't have the creativity or the goal threat of a Zidane. Plus Modric anchors the midfield, if I am not mistaken, and is more of a deep lying playmaker.

Yeah, I should specify that, in possession, they are pretty similar in the sense that they are both playmakers, dictating the game from midfield. Zidane was a bit more dynamic and benefited from playing as a classic #10 his whole career, which dispensed him from defensive duties and allowed him to play higher up the pitch and be more involved in the final third(this, btw, is kind of a knock on Modric. Modric didn't get to play like Zidane because he wasn't good enough to, so he had to move 20-30 meters back on the pitch and learn to defend. Same thing goes for Pirlo as well), but overall, they were the same type of midfield playmaker. Xavi and Pirlo also belong in that category, as did Scholes, Didi, Rivera, Falcao and Gerson

 

[SirHenryPercy]

It's going to be important for us to keep both of our FB's fit and that they keep their levels high.

Great goal from Rose last time out and Walker now has as many assists from RB as the assist King Ozil & Pogba do between them.

It's been good from these 2 of late.

 

[AXVnee7]

It's going to be important for us to keep both of our FB's fit and that they keep their levels high.

Great goal from Rose last time out and Walker now has as many assists from RB as the assist King Ozil & Pogba do between them.

It's been good from these 2 of late.

What about Rooney?

 

[lawliet354]

Always thought that Spurs lack quality wide player, but when I saw how aggressive their fullback are, they probably do not need winger that much because their fullback provided much support from out wide, Walker and Rose probably are the fastest fullback in the league and if they can improve their crossing and decision making then it's scary how good they will be in the future