If the Glazers put the club up for sale...

Red_toad

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True but id still rather be debt free.

I'm not complaining about the Glazers commitment though, debt or no debt they've invested millions into the squad so I'm thankful for that.
Who's to say any new owner wouldn't leverage the debt into the club just like the Glazers did?

The Glazers allowed the club to spend its own money, they haven't made millions in investment. They've taken a hell of a lot of money our of the club and I'd very much doubt they'll ever sell, as it's their cash cow. It'll keep many generations well funded.
 

VeevaVee

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I don't love them but they've not done that much wrong by us have they? I'd prefer that the ship was kept steady so long as they're willing to invest and want us to be up there, which makes sense for them from a business point of view.
 

InfiniteBoredom

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Why would they sell? Investments hardly come juicier or more stable than Manchester United. Look at Pool's fanbase and revenue after their last 25 years. Being in charge of one of the most well known brands in the world opens lots of doors as well.
 

Red Stone

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I want them to stay on. In hindsight I don't think they were ever that bad, even when the G&G campaign had its heyday. I think our lack of spending back then was more due to SAF being stubborn and stuck in his ways during his last seasons. From a business perspective we're run in a fantastic way. I wouldn't trade the Glazers or Woodward with anyone else from any other club. We're doing more than fine.

Our problem nowadays is on the pitch, but new owners or a new CEO won't fix that - a DOF would. Since SAF retired there's been three different managers pulling the club in three completely different directions to where SAF left it and it's evident when you look at our squad.

Moyes signed two players who are polar opposites of each other and who are still out of place today when you line up our best eleven. Mata because he's forced out on the wing more often than not despite being better through the middle, and Fellaini because he's shit. Moyes also kept Rooney and made him virtually unsellable, which I'm convinced would not have happened if SAF had stayed on for another season.

Van Gaal's signings have mostly been failures. Martial and Blind aside, they've all fallen way short of expectations and none of them are definite picks for our best eleven today, with several even already having left the club or being sure to leave imminently. Two seasons and nearly nothing done to help the strength of the squad. Herrera and Shaw not counted since they were signed before LvG took over.

Instead of moving in a clear-cut forward direction like we did for years under SAF (except for a small period in the early 00's) we've been going left and right doing somersaults, cartwheels and bellyflops. Mourinho has shown a clear vision with his four signings and every one of them has shown their worth to the team so far this season, but he's still left trying to piece together a puzzle using pieces from four completely different boxes. In fact, if you start adding names to our strongest team sheet, chances are you'll have seven or more players* signed by SAF or Mourinho. In other words, we have three years behind us with managers that have encumbered the club with more out-of-place players than definite starters. With a DOF with a clear philosophy in mind I think we'd have avoided having such a disjointed squad, and our results post-SAF would probably be better. It's also likely that Mourinho won't stay for more than five years at the most, and then we might end up in the same mess all over again.

In short; the Glazers are making us plenty of money. Our problem is that we're not spending it wisely. A DOF would help in that respect.

*DDG, Valencia, Bailly, Carrick, Pogba, Mkhi, Ibrahimovic. Possibly also Jones or Smalling.
 

Sparky10Legend

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If you all genuinely believe the man that broke British record after British record transfer fee suddenly obsessed with value then I literally shake my head. It's forever a stain on Ferguson that he towed the party line.

The Glazers are leaches, sucking away at something they didn't even buy with their own money (genius, innit).

We spend now because we didn't spend then, City bought Ageuro whilst we bought Michael Owen meaning by the time SAF left we had a hotch potch squad of never will be's and way over the hill's.

How soon y'all forget.
 
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rpg

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Basically what's important regarding a club's owner, is their willingness to spend money to buy players and having a hands-off approach towards club management especially the players and manager. Glazers have demonstrated that they are exactly that. Every managers sacked have been rightfully sacked after given enough time, and we had spent no less amount of money on player since then.

Regarding whether it is their unwillingness to spend during Fergie era or it was Fergie himself trying to skimp, it didnt matter, because we did keep on winning things back then. It wasn't like Arsenal who couldnt win things and still trying to skimp.
 
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MarchingOn

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I wouldn't be worried per se, but I like the stability we are currently experiencing under their ownership.

We can go out and get the best players, manager, sponsors, etc.

We are clearly committed to getting United back where we belong.
 

Striker10

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I would be disappointed. Whatever people think about the Glazers, they don't seemingly interfere. They recognize a mistake when they make one and they back backed recent managers. They've been to games and they seem well mannered. It's a similar thing with Jose. People feared that we'd be defensive but in the main we're looking more like our old selves. So I wouldn't be happy. We don't need to buy 5 50million pound players. What we need is the right investments. Is the right players and I think we're in good shape

We can say they've been tight in the past but we won titles even when we were being tight...at least they got their thumb out their arse and really backed the manager.
 

Invictus

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I dunno. There used to be a time when I greatly disliked the way they operated - encumbering a financially pristine club like United with a mountain of debt from the risky leveraged buyout, and seemingly clipping Fergie's wings in the market (to an extent). That kind of peaked with the Hicks and Gillet saga at Liverpool (mostly paranoia about the same unfolding at United), and the parent company's overall debt blowing up to £700+ million. But those days are thankfully gone, and the picture is much rosier now from a 'we might go bust' perspective. So the resentment factor has progressively been chipped away, by and large.

Now they allow United to spend its own money, and don't interfere in the football side of things - which can be an issue with billionaire egomaniacs who're more hands on and have a propensity for micromanaging things and remaking their new toy in their image. Not perfect by any means, and someone like Sheikh Mansour or the Emir of Qatar would take things to the next level by pouring a lot of their money into the club (especially in terms of infrastructure and training grounds - like the Etihad Campus or the Camp des Loges to Poissy development), but as a counter - if someone of that nature isn't interested, United is so valuable as an entity that there's a risk of another leveraged buyout where someone like Stan Kroenke handicaps the club further with harsh restraints, essentially setting the club back to the dark ages for a while.

So from that sense, I'm kinda happy with that status quo. They're not the best, but far from the worst. A couple things still bug me, though. Like, there's not enough money being invested into Old Trafford, when it's the physical epicenter of the club. Makes sense from a financial perspective because matchday revenues now form a substantially lower part of the overall pie:
Commercial revenue for the year was £268.3m, an increase of £71.4m, or 36.3%, over the previous year.

Meanwhile, broadcasting revenue for the year was £140.4m, an increase of £32.7m, or 30.4%, on the previous year, which the club says was "primarily due to participation in Uefa competitions".

And matchday revenue was £106.6m, an increase of £16.0m, or 17.7%,on 2014-15, thanks to that European participation and the club's run to the FA Cup final.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-37339740

But Madrid are modernizing the Bernabéu and adding a roof, Barcelona are going to expand the Nou Camp to ~105,000 in the near future, Bayern moved from Olympiastadion München to Allianz Arena and expanded the latter from 65,000 to an Old Trafford-esque 75,000, etc. United are kinda standing pat in that regard (relative to clubs of similar stature) - the last minor expansion happened in 2006, even though there's a real chance to take the stadium to 95,000+ by expanding over the freight line. The whole structure would then be more symmetric, United can realistically fill out the additional seats, there'll be greater matchday revenue, the net asset value will go up, and minor bragging rights for stadium savants I guess.
 

Reyoji-Utd

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I almost forgot that they exist and own Utd. I mean what else can you ask for, just look at all those clubs that been bought by the billionaires that involve and make controversial decisions regarding footballing matter.

New owner isn't always better. If something functioning very well, don't try to fix it.
 

Sky1981

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Who's to say any new owner wouldn't leverage the debt into the club just like the Glazers did?

The Glazers allowed the club to spend its own money, they haven't made millions in investment. They've taken a hell of a lot of money our of the club and I'd very much doubt they'll ever sell, as it's their cash cow. It'll keep many generations well funded.
As if as a PLC we're not.

Those dividends didn't come from heaven
 

2 man midfield

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In all honesty, I'd be a little apprehensive. The Glazers have done nothing but back the club both in terms of finance, and leaving the football men to do their job. Other clubs haven't been anywhere near as lucky.
 

Sarni

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Sustainable debt is not a bad thing. Quite the opposite actually. It's basic corporate finance.
Yeah. People's perception on debt in football is really weird. In vast majority of businesses, if not all of them, you need to bring external funds in.
 

Omar Little

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I almost forgot that they exist and own Utd. I mean what else can you ask for, just look at all those clubs that been bought by the billionaires that involve and make controversial decisions regarding footballing matter.

New owner isn't always better. If something functioning very well, don't try to fix it.
Agree. As far as football goes, they may as well be silent partners. You never hear anything about them in the press, really, either.

The post by @Eyepopper pretty much summed up my feelings, too.
 

Sereques

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If you all genuinely believe the man that broke British record after British record transfer fee suddenly obsessed with value then I literally shake my head. It's forever a stain on Ferguson that he towed the party line.

The Glazers are leaches, sucking away at something they didn't even buy with their own money (genius, innit).

We spend now because we didn't spend then, City bought Ageuro whilst we bought Michael Owen meaning by the time SAF left we had a hotch potch squad of never will be's and way over the hill's.

How soon y'all forget.
What I remember is Big money for Berbatov, Nani, Anderson, Hargreaves, loan Tevez, DDG, RVP. All of that is irrelevant because City bought Aguero. I guess it's their fault that 4 crucial buys flopped.
 

RC89

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Better the devil you know, and it's not like the new owners would come in and reduce ticket prices which can be the only real gripe now.
 

Dyslexic Untied

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If you all genuinely believe the man that broke British record after British record transfer fee suddenly obsessed with value then I literally shake my head. It's forever a stain on Ferguson that he towed the party line.

The Glazers are leaches, sucking away at something they didn't even buy with their own money (genius, innit).

We spend now because we didn't spend then, City bought Ageuro whilst we bought Michael Owen meaning by the time SAF left we had a hotch potch squad of never will be's and way over the hill's.

How soon y'all forget.
I am not so sure.

Ferguson also bought Berbatov for 30 M the year before Owen, and RvP for 24 M three years after. Aguero, bought in the same period, was 38 M.

Nani, Anderson, Carrick, Tevez (sort of), Jones, Young and De Gea were also bought by SAF for high figures in the last five or so years of his reign. I think the money was there, but SAF was stubborn and I do believe that he got caught up on value at some point.
 

The Man Himself

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togg

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Shaken, and very stirred......
They were never going to be popular in the beginning. Not a cats hell in chance. But over the years they have proved to be good owners when compared with the majority of other foreign owners. They always backed Ferguson and there is no way anyone can say they haven't invested in the team. They even didn't sack managers as fast as some on here wanted. Financially the debt has come down to a very servicable and advantageous level tax wise and as others have said on here, they really don't interfere with the footballing side of things at all. The revenue has gone up and up making us arguably the richest club in the world.

They've not been bad when all is said and done!
 

Globule

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They haven't been perfect owners because of the amount of money they've taken out of the club, but they've probably been among the better owners of a football club in England in recent years. They keep quiet, leaving the football side of things to those more qualified, are prepared to sanction heavy investment and are keen to get us back to where we should be. I'd hate the idea of us being sold now. We have it good currently, and it's a case of better the devil you know at this point. Who knows what kind of owner we'd end up with.
 

Globule

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I am not so sure.

Ferguson also bought Berbatov for 30 M the year before Owen, and RvP for 24 M three years after. Aguero, bought in the same period, was 38 M.

Nani, Anderson, Carrick, Tevez (sort of), Jones, Young and De Gea were also bought by SAF for high figures in the last five or so years of his reign. I think the money was there, but SAF was stubborn and I do believe that he got caught up on value at some point.
He was clearly challenging himself. "I'll bring in a crocked Michael Owen on a free and still win the damn league. That'll learn yous"
 

manc exile

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Better the devil you know, and it's not like the new owners would come in and reduce ticket prices which can be the only real gripe now.
What?

the only gripe?

we are playing better football than under LVG and Moyes but we are sixth and relying on ageing players in key positions.
We are closer to 14th than we are to the top. The expectation of the fans has been reduced, by the terrible managerial appointments the owners have made.
I think we are moving in the right direction now but its taken the owners three years to get a manager that has us doing that.

Then there is the lack of stadium investment which now possibly means a reduction in capacity by 3500 to meet disabled seating requirements, even though the introduction of the regulation has been widely discussed for the past decade.

Then there is the lack of investment in the academy until recently as well.

I am sure we can come up with more, but that took two minutes of thinking
 

lysglimt

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They have been good owners - not perfect, but you can't really complain.
 

GBBQ

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What?

the only gripe?

we are playing better football than under LVG and Moyes but we are sixth and relying on ageing players in key positions.
We are closer to 14th than we are to the top. The expectation of the fans has been reduced, by the terrible managerial appointments the owners have made.
I think we are moving in the right direction now but its taken the owners three years to get a manager that has us doing that.

Then there is the lack of stadium investment which now possibly means a reduction in capacity by 3500 to meet disabled seating requirements, even though the introduction of the regulation has been widely discussed for the past decade.

Then there is the lack of investment in the academy until recently as well.

I am sure we can come up with more, but that took two minutes of thinking

we are playing better football than under LVG and Moyes but we are sixth and relying on ageing players in key positions. - granted we are relying on Zlatan and Carrick but the rest of the team is young and promising. It wont take much to replace these two. After one transfer window under Jose we're looking much better (after a rocky start) and already names are in being mentioned about who is next to be bought, we will be fine. Either way this is nothing to do with the Glazers who have backed 3 managers in a row with huge funds and show no signs of stopping.
We are closer to 14th than we are to the top. if the season finishes that way then this will be a legitimate criticism, our form at the moment and of those around us suggests it wont play out that way.
The expectation of the fans has been reduced, by the terrible managerial appointments the owners have made. Expectations have not changed, we want to be the best, no United fan would ever settle for 5th - 7th place. However we are realistic that change takes time but we're improving now. As for the managerial appointments Moyes was allegedly SAF's pick and was fired less than 1 season into his contract. LVG had just come 3rd in the world cup with an unfancied Dutch side, there were few other managers available and likewise he was let go when it was clear he wasn't right for the club. All clubs get managerial appointments wrong, the important thing is that they act to rectify it when its clear it wont work any further.
 

manc exile

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we are playing better football than under LVG and Moyes but we are sixth and relying on ageing players in key positions. - granted we are relying on Zlatan and Carrick but the rest of the team is young and promising. It wont take much to replace these two. After one transfer window under Jose we're looking much better (after a rocky start) and already names are in being mentioned about who is next to be bought, we will be fine. Either way this is nothing to do with the Glazers who have backed 3 managers in a row with huge funds and show no signs of stopping.
We are closer to 14th than we are to the top. if the season finishes that way then this will be a legitimate criticism, our form at the moment and of those around us suggests it wont play out that way.
The expectation of the fans has been reduced, by the terrible managerial appointments the owners have made. Expectations have not changed, we want to be the best, no United fan would ever settle for 5th - 7th place. However we are realistic that change takes time but we're improving now. As for the managerial appointments Moyes was allegedly SAF's pick and was fired less than 1 season into his contract. LVG had just come 3rd in the world cup with an unfancied Dutch side, there were few other managers available and likewise he was let go when it was clear he wasn't right for the club. All clubs get managerial appointments wrong, the important thing is that they act to rectify it when its clear it wont work any further.
Either way this is nothing to do with the Glazers who have backed 3 managers in a row with huge funds and show no signs of stopping.
its everything to do with the owners, they are the owners, ultimately in charge, the buck stops with them.

if the season finishes that way then this will be a legitimate criticism, our form at the moment and of those around us suggests it wont play out that way.
Its legitimate now. Conte and Pep were appointed at roughly the same time as Jose. Chelsea were in a worse position than us and city were in the same position and we are now 13 and 6 points behind them respectively. The buck stops at the top, the owners.

Expectations have not changed
thats just rubbish. finishing top four is now a success, whereas winning used to be

As for the managerial appointments Moyes was allegedly SAF's pick
while Moyes may have been Fergies advice, it was the owners who chose to follow that advice, they could have ignored it and chosen someone else.

All clubs get managerial appointments wrong, the important thing is that they act to rectify it when its clear it wont work any further.
While this is true, I would argue the timing of the sackings and appointments have been woeful along with the choices of managers.

And the other two points? which would on their own would counter the argument that ticket prices are the only real gripe that we have now.
 

ypsipeos

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Right now, there's a light smell of Real Madrid galacticos or late 90s Inter Milan in the club. We are balancing on a very unstable seesaw: on the one side we ve got talented young players, a United tradition, but on the other side we maybe are starting to create huge egos - we are the most "marketable" club, making our players look like super-stars without even winning anything.

Jose is keeping this seesaw balanced, he is making our players soldiers againg. That's what I want from them. At first, they should give everything for the club, maybe win EPL again, and then they can be all famous they deserve. Real Madrid and Inter Milan destroyed many players, I don't want us to be a career destroyer club.

If a new owner can use this United tradition (talented youth players becoming mature champions and CHL contenders) better than the Glazers, then I'm all for it.

I am a United fan not a Glazers dog.
 

Munich_1958

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IMO this club is being run really well, They glazers have shown they want us to do well on and off the pitch were very few teams come close.
they have invested heavily in recent times and there splurge in resources for the youth academy recently gives me extra reassurance that they deserve to be were they are and I would be happy for them to remain out owners for the foreseeable future
 
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Either way this is nothing to do with the Glazers who have backed 3 managers in a row with huge funds and show no signs of stopping.
its everything to do with the owners, they are the owners, ultimately in charge, the buck stops with them.

if the season finishes that way then this will be a legitimate criticism, our form at the moment and of those around us suggests it wont play out that way.
Its legitimate now. Conte and Pep were appointed at roughly the same time as Jose. Chelsea were in a worse position than us and city were in the same position and we are now 13 and 6 points behind them respectively. The buck stops at the top, the owners.

Expectations have not changed
thats just rubbish. finishing top four is now a success, whereas winning used to be

As for the managerial appointments Moyes was allegedly SAF's pick
while Moyes may have been Fergies advice, it was the owners who chose to follow that advice, they could have ignored it and chosen someone else.

All clubs get managerial appointments wrong, the important thing is that they act to rectify it when its clear it wont work any further.
While this is true, I would argue the timing of the sackings and appointments have been woeful along with the choices of managers.

And the other two points? which would on their own would counter the argument that ticket prices are the only real gripe that we have now.
You do realise you sound like a spolit brat fan only ever used to winning and unable to fathom a few years without success?
 

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Green and Gold til the club is sold, or maybe for a few months.

The Glazers haven't been perfect, the lack of input or any sort of voice for fans is a bugbear of mine, although the militant approach adopted by MUST hasn't helped on that front either. The way they financed the takeover still grates but from the minute the club was floated it was always a possibility that that would happen.

Overall I think its hard to say they have been bad owners, from a business point of view they haven't put a foot wrong and have turned the club into a behemoth. On field they haven't interfered and have signed off on huge investments.

Stick with what you know would be my vote.
This.

And those Red Knights made a joke of themselves, I'd definitely not want them to take other.
 

JPRouve

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Who is going to buy United and put money in it? Buying United will cost more than all the money Sheikh Mansour put in City. What City's or PSG's current owners did only works for cheap clubs.
 

Kag

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I can't be arsed with yet more upheaval, to be honest. They don't get too involved with the football side of things and we're currently spending money in a variety of different areas throughout the club. I'd sooner keep them and allow things to progress as they are.

With all that said, they've never out a penny of their own money into United first team affairs. It's as scandalous as it is admirable. Without Ferguson then their business plan may very well have gone down the drain.
 

Munich_1958

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Either way this is nothing to do with the Glazers who have backed 3 managers in a row with huge funds and show no signs of stopping.
its everything to do with the owners, they are the owners, ultimately in charge, the buck stops with them.

if the season finishes that way then this will be a legitimate criticism, our form at the moment and of those around us suggests it wont play out that way.
Its legitimate now. Conte and Pep were appointed at roughly the same time as Jose. Chelsea were in a worse position than us and city were in the same position and we are now 13 and 6 points behind them respectively. The buck stops at the top, the owners.

Expectations have not changed
thats just rubbish. finishing top four is now a success, whereas winning used to be

As for the managerial appointments Moyes was allegedly SAF's pick
while Moyes may have been Fergies advice, it was the owners who chose to follow that advice, they could have ignored it and chosen someone else.

All clubs get managerial appointments wrong, the important thing is that they act to rectify it when its clear it wont work any further.
While this is true, I would argue the timing of the sackings and appointments have been woeful along with the choices of managers.

And the other two points? which would on their own would counter the argument that ticket prices are the only real gripe that we have now.
You come across as a
Either way this is nothing to do with the Glazers who have backed 3 managers in a row with huge funds and show no signs of stopping.
its everything to do with the owners, they are the owners, ultimately in charge, the buck stops with them.

if the season finishes that way then this will be a legitimate criticism, our form at the moment and of those around us suggests it wont play out that way.
Its legitimate now. Conte and Pep were appointed at roughly the same time as Jose. Chelsea were in a worse position than us and city were in the same position and we are now 13 and 6 points behind them respectively. The buck stops at the top, the owners.

Expectations have not changed
thats just rubbish. finishing top four is now a success, whereas winning used to be

As for the managerial appointments Moyes was allegedly SAF's pick
while Moyes may have been Fergies advice, it was the owners who chose to follow that advice, they could have ignored it and chosen someone else.

All clubs get managerial appointments wrong, the important thing is that they act to rectify it when its clear it wont work any further.
While this is true, I would argue the timing of the sackings and appointments have been woeful along with the choices of managers.

And the other two points? which would on their own would counter the argument that ticket prices are the only real gripe that we have now.

You come across as a person hoping the Glazers are the problem but deep down you know they are doing a good job, FC united of Manchester supporter?
 

MadDogg

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As for the managerial appointments Moyes was allegedly SAF's pick
while Moyes may have been Fergies advice, it was the owners who chose to follow that advice, they could have ignored it and chosen someone else
The owners know relatively little about football, and importantly, know that they know relatively little about football. From everything we have seen since the moment they took over, they have left all the actual footballing decisions up to first Fergie and Gill, then Woodward (and the respective managers).

The owners going against what Fergie/Gill/Woodward wanted is the worst case scenario.

Moyes was all on Fergie and Gill. Maybe Woodward had some input in it as well, hard to know but it doesn't sound like he did. LVG was Woodward's decision, and although it didn't work out it's not something I'd hang over his head. Going into it we were all hopeful.
 

RC89

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What?

the only gripe?

we are playing better football than under LVG and Moyes but we are sixth and relying on ageing players in key positions.
We are closer to 14th than we are to the top. The expectation of the fans has been reduced, by the terrible managerial appointments the owners have made.
I think we are moving in the right direction now but its taken the owners three years to get a manager that has us doing that.

Then there is the lack of stadium investment which now possibly means a reduction in capacity by 3500 to meet disabled seating requirements, even though the introduction of the regulation has been widely discussed for the past decade.

Then there is the lack of investment in the academy until recently as well.

I am sure we can come up with more, but that took two minutes of thinking
What the hell are you on about? Hindsight 20/20. We hired Moyes, yes, a disaster. But we signed LVG too who was very highly regarded before coming here. It didn't pan out but on one can predict the future, we can only go back to the time when the decision was made to really criticize it and it seemed a good idea at the time. then we signed Jose and yes we're sixth but how is that the fault of the Glazers? They gave him money, they got his targets, what else is there for the to do in that regard? Expectations might have been set low, but not by the Glazers, it's by managers underperforming. Bar Moyes, the mangers were we've picked were very highly rated.

Stadium investment? Did they not increase capacity the the quadrants?

The academy, I honestly don't know too much there but you yourself have said 'until recently', so even assuming you're actually telling the truth. That issue has been resolved too now.

I bet you, we could have signed Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Ancelottio, Conte... anyone you can think of, and had they been backed in the windows like our last two managers have and still not performed you'd blame the Glazers for that too. This particular criticism has got me because it's so daft. By that logic, why not give them their credit for getting us so many titles under Fergie, our third CL, let's not forget two more appearances in the final too. Our most successful period ever really.
 

Needham

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Dec 7, 2013
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11,808
Seems absurd that there are no billionaires spending lots of time on Redcafe who wouldn't buy the club. Put your money where your mouth is.
 

RC89

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Oct 12, 2010
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Either way this is nothing to do with the Glazers who have backed 3 managers in a row with huge funds and show no signs of stopping.
its everything to do with the owners, they are the owners, ultimately in charge, the buck stops with them.
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Please, instead of offering lazy ignorant arguments, tell us what they should have actually done. I highly doubt you were singing their praises when we had all the success under them. You should have. After all, the buck stops with them right?
 
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SirAF

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Sep 28, 2003
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I have no complaints. God knows what a new owner would do.