[beingshe7don]

Football was awful, we were shit, their striker should have scored twice easily we were lucky, we will miss Bailly alot God knows how Smalling can do to us he is shit but boy Eric was so stupid you cant punch a player like this. Good to see the job was done after a negative tense game, if we want to win this cup we need to improve in the final we need to be more like a football team.

Did you watch Smalling scampering like a headless chicken right before the final whistle blew. If Guidetti wasn't composed enough, this game could have easily ended up different. I'm not looking forward to Smalling and Blind being in the finals. Ajax are going to tear them apart. Herrera is going to be very crucial in that game. Bailly and Valencia were both idiots to lose their cool. Valencia was the captain and he behaved so stupid. He's supposed to be calm and lead by example. Some of the positives from today's game were Pogba, Mhiki, Rashford and Fellaini.

Smalling just doesn't deserve to play football let alone play for Manchester United. The guy is pathetic and awkward and can't be relied upon to defend.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

Being in the final is all that matters. I don't think Ajax will be quite as awful 'cos they're a much younger team and we won't be going in with a lead to defend...

That said, that was atrocious. Like, properly atrocious, for a crucial European home game at OT at least. Martial and Mata were the obvious subs to make. One to keep control of the ball, and the other to provide a fresh, pacey counter attacking outlet. Obvious, but never likely to happen. Jose plumping for the most defensive changes imaginable was as infuriating as it was predictable.

Starting with such a defensive/hard working lineup conceded the early initiative, and once we failed to get a second, Jose was never going to bring on attacking players to change it up. It's the other way around, or not at all. The trouble being that it's never worked. Either way. We've lost points by taking off good technical players for strong physical ones (Arsenal H, Everton A, Anderlecht, half of our drawn games) and we've lost points starting with a physical side and failing to change the dynamic by brining on attackers (Arsenal A, Everton H, the other half of our drawn games!) and yet we never seem to learn...

Point in fact, the one time we were positive late on (courtesy of Fellaini of all people) we scored, albeit illegally. But rather than keep doing that, and suring up the tie, we played promising 25 yard FKs into the corner!

It's weird because Jose got us playing some really good stuff mid-season, which if we end up winning this, will be a great springboard. But this last month has been soul destroying. Almost as if Jose is terrifyed of the situation we've found ourselves in, and has defaulted to the worst posssible stereotype of himself, when what he was doing at the turn of the year was so promising.

Bring Martial and Mata on at half time and we win that comfortably. The fact it ended up as a nail biter is our fault alone.

Odds on that same team starts the final. And it'll be the same story. We'll score early, miss chances, sit back then ride out the last 20 with our hands over our faces...Sigh.

This is a great post.

I just don't see us playing well and beating Ajax in the final. I think we will win but it'll be the usual torture.

 

[KristianMackle]

This is frighteningly negative football. Especially at home to Celta Vigo. I understand we're not the United of old but we don't need to be to not concede 67% possession and 16 shots to Celta Vigo at home.
We may have won the tie but wow that was terrible. We need at least 4 new players in the summer.

 

[Mihai]

I actually meant elbows.

Or maybe even their collar bones. Who knows?

It will be Mike in the final, the rest doesn't matter

 

[montpelier]

I think Carrick needs to play in the final - just sitting in front of whoever the CB pair are. With I suppose Herrera & Pogba. And probably Fellaini as well. And then Rashford +1.

How we do that in any kind of viable formation likely to score more than once, I'm not quite sure. Could be a long night.

 

[Sereques]

The meltdown from some fans because we didn't win 3-0 is embarrassing.

 

[Mockney]

I'm hopeful that one of Martial or Mata will play themselves into contention at the expense of Lingard. Probably Mata, who can give us that control you spoke about. Otherwise, yeah, same team other than a centre back change.

And if we play the same team, the same thing will happen. If we win, fine, it's a means to an end, but it'll be making needlessly stressful hard work out of a game we could easily control.

As soon as he took Mata off for Schneiderlin against Arse at home, it was obvious that sacrificing ball players for bodies was a bad idea. But we kept, and keep on doing it, despite its glaringly self destructive results.

Start with our attacking players and bring them off if need be. Start with a conservative line up, and we've nowhere to go when it doesn't pan out. Bringing Rooney, Carrick and Smalling on when we're under pressure is just papering over our cracks with our most crack prone personal.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

The meltdown from some fans because we didn't win 3-0 is embarrassing.

You can be delighted we are in the final and still acknowledge that was a shambles. It doesn't make you ungrateful.

The most important thing was of course to get through but tonight was a mess.

 

[Mockney]

Yep, I alluded to that in an earlier post. This seemed like fearful "negative", unlike his pragmatic "negatives" from the past.

I think winning this is far too important to him (as it should be). And it's understandable if you look at his career, know who he is, and see where he sees himself now. If he pulls it off I'm sure you'll see an improvement next season.

Thing is, I understand the pragmatism. Pragmatism is fine. What annoys me is the counter productive nature of it. Had he brought on Martial and Mata, we'd probably have eased that out comfortably. Doubling down on defence when they had the momentum only invited them on more, when they should've by rights been demoralised by being 2-0 down away...

 

[cyberman]

I think Carrick needs to play in the final - just sitting in front of whoever the CB pair are. With I suppose Herrera & Pogba. And probably Fellaini as well. And then Rashford +1.

How we do that in any kind of viable formation likely to score more than once, I'm not quite sure. Could be a long night.

I think Carrick will start. He / Herrera and Pogba could pick holes in that average defensive structre that Ajax have.
We can't have the ball fall to Fellaini in those positions.

 

[Mciahel Goodman]

I was irritated by the way we played the last 30mins, but then we're in the final. So who cares. As for the final itself, I really don't care how we win, but just win. 451, 3511, whatever, just get the cup.

 

[Kraftwerker]

This is where we're at now as a football club so you have two choices.

(1) You can bitch and moan that we're not Real Madrid steam-rolling our way through European semi finals. You can call out the players and the manager for not replicating the 5-0 victory you managed to produce when you simmed the game on Football Manager earlier.

Or

(2) You can enjoy what there is to enjoy. A European final to look forward to, and some of our young players gaining some great experience of competing at the sharp end of European competition. Rashford's going to play in a European final in the next few weeks. That's incredible.

You take the rough with the smooth and it could be a damn sight rougher than this.

 

[TMDaines]

Being in the final is all that matters. I don't think Ajax will be quite as awful 'cos they're a much younger team and we won't be going in with a lead to defend...

That said, that was atrocious. Like, properly atrocious, for a crucial European home game at OT at least. Martial and Mata were the obvious subs to make. One to keep control of the ball, and the other to provide a fresh, pacey counter attacking outlet. Obvious, but never likely to happen. Jose plumping for the most defensive changes imaginable was as infuriating as it was predictable.

Starting with such a defensive/hard working lineup conceded the early initiative, and once we failed to get a second, Jose was never going to bring on attacking players to change it up. It's the other way around, or not at all. The trouble being that it's never worked. Either way. We've lost points by taking off good technical players for strong physical ones (Arsenal H, Everton A, Anderlecht, half of our drawn games) and we've lost points starting with a physical side and failing to change the dynamic by brining on attackers (Arsenal A, Everton H, the other half of our drawn games!) and yet we never seem to learn...

Point in fact, the one time we were positive late on (courtesy of Fellaini of all people) we scored, albeit illegally. But rather than keep doing that, and suring up the tie, we played promising 25 yard FKs into the corner!

It's weird because Jose got us playing some really good stuff mid-season, which if we end up winning this, will be a great springboard. But this last month has been soul destroying. Almost as if Jose is terrifyed of the situation we've found ourselves in, and has defaulted to the worst posssible stereotype of himself, when what he was doing at the turn of the year was so promising.

Bring Martial and Mata on at half time and we win that comfortably. The fact it ended up as a nail biter is our fault alone.

Odds on that same team starts the final. And it'll be the same story. We'll score early, miss chances, sit back then ride out the last 20 with our hands over our faces...Sigh.

I think we do concede the initiative and sit back too early. I get minimising the chance of conceding two goals, but I don't think the strategy with the best expected outcome is simply just trying not to concede.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

As a potentially good omen isn't Jose usually pretty bad with European semi finals? He seemed to go out of the Champions League at that stage quite a lot. So maybe he was always going to struggle with a semi final.

However when it comes to finals he's fecking superb.

And we've just made the final so who knows. Maybe for Jose the hardest part is done?

 

[sammsky1]

Although we watched the game together. I saw this differently. I thought his negative tactics nearly cost us the game. These tactics have cost us a few points over the season.

Hard to lose those armchair watching habits!

 

[minoo-utd]

Did you watch Smalling scampering like a headless chicken right before the final whistle blew. If Guidetti wasn't composed enough, this game could have easily ended up different. I'm not looking forward to Smalling and Blind being in the finals. Ajax are going to tear them apart. Herrera is going to be very crucial in that game. Bailly and Valencia were both idiots to lose their cool. Valencia was the captain and he behaved so stupid. He's supposed to be calm and lead by example. Some of the positives from today's game were Pogba, Mhiki, Rashford and Fellaini.

Smalling just doesn't deserve to play football let alone play for Manchester United. The guy is pathetic and awkward and can't be relied upon to defend.

Yes him or Jones besides Blind with Darmian too, awful defending line.

 

[GifLord]

@GifLord

Do you have a gif of Mourinho at the end kissing his watch and looking all nervous

I don't think I've ever seen him like that

 

[montpelier]

This is where we're at now as a football club so you have two choices.

(1) You can bitch and moan that we're not Real Madrid steam-rolling our way through European semi finals. You can call out the players and the manager for not replicating the 5-0 victory you managed to produce when you simmed the game on Football Manager earlier.

Or

(2) You can enjoy what there is to enjoy. A European final to look forward to, and some of our young players gaining some great experience of competing at the sharp end of European competition. Rashford's going to play in a European final in the next few weeks. That's incredible.

You take the rough with the smooth and it could be a damn sight rougher than this.

Very sensible post.

We might also have freakishly accumulated 4 trophies in the last 2 years if we can beat what I'm reading is a young inexperienced Ajax.

 

[Mockney]

This is a great post.

I just don't see us playing well and beating Ajax in the final. I think we will win but it'll be the usual torture.

And the annoying thing is, we could. If we'd played them in February, we'd be firm favourites to lock it down. But since about the City game, we've become nervous, backs to the wall pragmatists. Which makes no sense at all for a team supposedly tired and over worked. Surrendering possession is surely the most sure fire way of knackering you out? If LVG got anything right, it was his possession positive approach to big, end of the season games.

Play Martial, Mikhi, Mata, Rash, Pog & Herrera in the final, and we'll create more than enough chances to win (and miss!) Get two, and then we can bring Mophead on to foul them into submission.

Start the team we did tonight (which we will) and we'll have to rely on converting the meagre 2 or 3 chances we make (without 2 of our best finishers) then be forced to sit back and defend it, by brining on only the players with the largest body mass to make up the numbers.

This isn't some random biased fan opinion either. It's an entirely objective outlook, based factually on how we've played with these players throughout the season.

I don't think Jose wants to do this, fwiw. And once he's got his ideal team, he wont. But the fact he defaults to it so readily, is a worry. And certainly the first reason he's given me doubt him.

 

[ghagua]

I am just numb at the moment. I should be celebrating, but that was shite. Just a few months ago I was saying that results and trophies were all that mattered, but negativity in our game has been taken to a whole new level.

 

[sammsky1]

I was expecting white text.
First leg was an excellent performance.
Second leg was pisspoor and almost threw it away, lucky that fecker missed what was a sitter with 15 seconds to go.
Im glad Sevilla arent in this, they'd of murdered Utd tonight.

Yeah. On reflection I realise it was relief and adrenaline and actually we were awful and deserved to lose 2nd leg 3-1.

First time I watched the game at OT under Mourinho. @Sultan pointed out many things I miss on TV.

Mou definitely stocks up defences first and his desire to 'close the game' at the 70th is the most negative tactic I've ever seen deployed by Manchester United manager.

Still this was not about performances and o don't even care about the cup. Just need prestige and pressure the CL bringsbext year, no matter how we gain it.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

We're in the Final!!!

Blessing.

 

[Attila]

Thanks, he looks proper nervous...massive game for him

Turns out he wasn't kissing his watch in some sort of Woodward Hublot sponsorship move and was actually kissing the name of his wife+kids who he has tattooed there

 

[shaky]

Celta Vigo, conquerors of Barcelona and Madrid like everyone warned us, remember. Obviously capable of raising their game on occasions. Getting through was the goal and we got through.

 

[Jacko21]

Yeah, found this pretty remarkable.

In all his years as a manager, rarely have I seen such anguish and genuine nervousness in his body language and expressions.

This season must've been draining.

For him, the unthinkable is not making the CL.

 

[Mihai]

Thanks, he looks proper nervous...massive game for him

Turns out he wasn't kissing his watch in some sort of Woodward Hublot sponsorship move and was actually kissing the name of his wife+kids who he has tattooed there

He guy is the one for us. He hasn't been that nervous since the Barca semi final.

 

[Berbaclass]

The job quite obviously means a great deal to him and he doesn't want to fail.

 

[RedMaestro]

I'm a bit curious about the incident involving Valencia. Could he miss the final? Looks to me that there was a lot of luck with not seeing him get a red card. Did the ref see what happened or not?

 

[Randall Flagg]

The job quite obviously means a great deal to him and he doesn't want to fail.

Well, I should fecking hope so

 

[Aspascorner]

This is where we're at now as a football club so you have two choices.

(1) You can bitch and moan that we're not Real Madrid steam-rolling our way through European semi finals. You can call out the players and the manager for not replicating the 5-0 victory you managed to produce when you simmed the game on Football Manager earlier.

Or

(2) You can enjoy what there is to enjoy. A European final to look forward to, and some of our young players gaining some great experience of competing at the sharp end of European competition. Rashford's going to play in a European final in the next few weeks. That's incredible.

You take the rough with the smooth and it could be a damn sight rougher than this.

I mostly agree but, for example, Madrid was knocked out by Celta in Copa del Rey´s quarter-finals. Also, they beat Celta (2:1 Bernabeu) in La Liga doing what they do better, scoring a goal in an offside position. As they did against Bayern.


Luckily, football is not a mathematical science.

 

[sammsky1]

There are some truly, truly embarrassing and hyperbolic responses in this match thread. The level of entitlement is astonishing.

Just to get things straight: we did not lose.

We made a European cup final.

I agree with you.

We've known this squad has critical issues that won't be solved until a very successful summer transfer window.

So trotting out the same frustrations game after game and expecting it to be somehow better is quite a balmy mad point of view.

Given the circumstances I don't care what style and strategy Mourinho uses, as long as he wins us CL qualification.

Winning 2 albeit minor trophies when we have such a disjointed squad will do for me.

 

[edcunited1878]

I don't recall Jose's son or his family being up to Manchester much this year. Seeing him hug his son after the final whistle on the pitch was great to see. Lots of build up before the match probably on a personal leave for Jose and then going through the ringer today, as he predicted it, was draining on him. Fair play.

He has two main objectives remaining in this bizarre and long season...respect the Premier League with team selections and put his team in the best position to win the Champions League Qualification Trophy.

 

[Flytan]

I dislike how we approached the second half as it was clear we could score more goals to make it easier. But with a 2 goal cushion and Jose's pragmatism I shouldn't expect anything other than a defensive change. Sure it was annoying (and nerve-wracking) but it's this approach that helped us get this far and now we have a final to play in.

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

And the annoying thing is, we could. If we'd played them in February, we'd be firm favourites to lock it down. But since about the City game, we've become nervous, backs to the wall pragmatists. Which makes no sense at all for a team supposedly tired and over worked. Surrendering possession is surely the most sure fire way of knackering you out! If LVG got anything right, it was his possession positive approach to big, end of the season games.

Play Martial, Mikhi, Mata, Rash, Pog & Herrera in the final, and we'll create more than enough chances to win (and miss!) Get two, and then we can bring Mophead on to foul them into submission.

Start the team we did tonight (which we will) and we'll have to rely on converting the meagre 2 or 3 chances we make (without 2 of our best finishers) then be forced to sit back and defend it, by brining on only the players with the largest body mass to make up the numbers.

This isn't some random biased fan opinion either. It's an entirely objective outlook, based factually on how we've played with these players throughout the season.

It's as close to fact as an opinion can get probably.

We've tried to do things the Jose way all season of sitting on one goal leads, making negative defensive subs and it's come back to haunt us countless times. I mean for feck sake it's the 4th time in the Europa League knockouts we've been pegged back to 1-1 in similar circumstances.

Tonight was just another in a long list of games we've been needlessly submissive in and I can't see why Jose can't work out that it's not a successful tactic for this Utd side. How many times do we have to blow 1-0 leads before he changes something?

Maybe after another transfer window when he can bring in more of his own players we'll be capable of it but right now this lot can't.

The subs tonight were almost cliche Jose, take off the three players on the pitch that can run with the ball and relieve pressure by attacking and bring on 3 slow cautious "experienced" players that mean Celta can just pen us in even more.

The frustrating thing is I truly believe we're not that far away from being a proper side, he just needs to be a bit more positive and we'll be fine in Stockholm.

 

[Hawks2008]

Great to win after all the shite Guidetti and Aspas were talking before the tie.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Attila]

This is where we're at now as a football club so you have two choices.

(1) You can bitch and moan that we're not Real Madrid steam-rolling our way through European semi finals. You can call out the players and the manager for not replicating the 5-0 victory you managed to produce when you simmed the game on Football Manager earlier.

Or

(2) You can enjoy what there is to enjoy. A European final to look forward to, and some of our young players gaining some great experience of competing at the sharp end of European competition. Rashford's going to play in a European final in the next few weeks. That's incredible.

You take the rough with the smooth and it could be a damn sight rougher than this.

Great post

 

[Mockney]

Although we watched the game together. I saw this differently. I thought his negative tactics nearly cost us the game. These tactics have cost us a few points over the season.

I watched with a bunch of Caf peeps, and nearly all of us predicted the inevitable template of the game within 15 minutes. I'm happy we're in the final, but my mitigating annoyance comes entirely from how needless that last 30 mins were. We were 2-0 up, at home! We should have been showboating if anything. But our negative tactics encouraged them to come at us. Just like they did against Arsenal at home, when we were bossing it, only for Jose to take off our goalscorer and creative linchpin, for a defensive player who'd played about 60 minutes total in the last 18 months.... something that set the trend for so many other games, where we took the lead, then sat back and allowed the opposition to test us, completely needlessly.

I understand the pragmatism inherent in it, but when it's cost us so regularly, why continue to do it? I'm still hugely pro-Jose, but i can't deny it's become maddening. Cos it's become maddening Sults!

 

[sammsky1]

If you had told me 5 years ago that United would need to win EL to get into the CL because they can't do better than 6th in the PL whilst being coached by Mourinho and having players like Pogba and Zlatan playing for us and having spend about 400m on the team in the last years, I would have laughed myself to death.

But we are where we are, and not because of the faults of many still at the club.

Moyes and van Gaal destroyed all the Fergusonian culture and values that you fondly remember. It does not exist anymore in any shape or form and has to be rebuilt.

whilst fans may know of the good times, only a few of our oldie type players know the level of quality and concentration required to be a top table team.

As I said, no matter that you dislike it, we are where we are and bitter medicine always tasted shite.

 

[Andersons Dietician]

Wow. That's completely wrong. You can make excuses for Chelsea given they had some illness issues but they got outplayed that day. They barely created a chance.

I could take a shot from 40yards and it would count as a chance, it's quality of play that matters but apparently we dominated them which simply isn't true. They took the game to us, we played compact and caught them with two mistakes. Even the most red tinted fans can't surely believe we dominated that game.

Anyway back on tonight it was the usual Jose piss take. Why he has to go so defensive all the time I don't know. It's cost us so often this season and if he continues in this trend he won't last next season.

 

[sammsky1]

Really? That was comfortable for you? Even Mou wouldn't say that. That was literally the opposite of comfortable and uncomfortable is not strong enough a word to describe it.

Yeah. Immediate post match euphoria clouding my opinion!