Our wingers: need strengthening?

[stu_1992]

Inverted wingers are what you will see with most top teams in the modern game. CR7, Bale, Messi, Neymar, Di Maria, Sanchez etc all play on the opposite side of their foot as inverted wingers and cut inside. The main idea is that the attacker is on his dominant foot vs the defender's weaker foot. The fuil backs are meant to provide the width.

Oh I know, but it's my personal preference for only one inverted winger and one true wide player. We should at least have a quality typical wide option to come off the bench to change things up. Right now only really Young can do that, and he mostly plays in defense. Valencia is exclusively a right back now.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Without a doubt we need a winger in Summer. We simply CANNOT have Lingard starting and expect anything better than where we are in the league right now. I said it in another thread, If Jose starts with Lingard and Fellaini as much next season then we are destined to fail.

Now the question is, which winger do we get in?
Douglas Costa has been mentioned but i'm not massively convinced about him. He is a good player on his day, but for what he would cost he doesn't do it consistently enough for my liking. Carrasco could be an option, but Atleti won't sell Griezmann and another star name this Summer, absolutely no chance. Is Mahrez still a potential option? He hasn't done himself any favours this past season.

 

[devilish]

Trust devilish to exaggerate 'a little'.

While I think Lingard is fine as a backup player, we need to have better options out there. We used to have the likes of Park and Nani as covers for the flanks. They would walk into the current side easily considering how inconsistent the likes of Mata, Mkhi and Martial have been playing this season.

We need atleast one who can do stuff on his own that would scare the living shit out of the defenders. That and fullbacks who can cross properly.

Is he fine as a backup player though? Nani, Park, Blomqvist, Young and Sharpe were superior players then he is. I would dare including Fortune to that list too while at it.

I have nothing against the boy but he screames average all over the place. His dribbling is average, his movement is average, his crossing is average, his goalscoring ability is average, his workrate is average, his pace is average. If United were a movie, Lingard would be that random foot soldier who takes the first arrow in the head at the beginning of an ambush.

That debate is moot cos those are the players currently playing those attacking positions on the flank and behind the lone striker, and will likely be here for another season.

That's because Moyes saddled us with 2 players who are unsuitable for a top team. There's a reason why no big club had ever bidded for Fellaini and there's a reason why Mou wanted to get rid of Mata. The former can only be played as no 10 in a very direct system. The latter is too much of a coward to be played as no10 and too slow to be played as a winger.

In reality we can live without any new signings. Smalling, Jones and co are good enough as CB, Rashford and Martial can do the job upfront, Pogba, Fellaini and Herrera are decent in CM, Mata, Mkhitaryan, Lingard and co can do the job on the flanks. There again, there's a reason why we're always struggling to make the top 4 despite changing managers all the time. This team is simply not good enough.

 

[Kammy26]

Definitely need a new winger think mkh is suited to the 10 position that's were his best performances have been and lingard just isn't good enough to be a starter he's too light weight.

Also I don't get why it's so hard for our wide players to pick there head up and look before they cross the ball in, it's like they just hit it in and hope for the best I've seen lingard do this over and over again.

Our wingers are also rubbish at taking men on, 8 times out of 10 our wingers lose possession when trying a take on, I accept that if you take risks and attempt to take your man on sometimes your going to lose the ball but it seems to happen to our players a lot more than it should

 

[TheRedDevil'sAdvocate]

People keep mentioning pace and traditional wingers who will hug the touchline but these aren't the biggest problems. Yesterday we had Rashford upfront with Lingard and Mkhitaryan flanking him, how much more pace do we really need? And almost any good European side in the last decade or so deploys tactics with inverted wingers/forwards and it's the full backs who provide width in the final third.

Firstly, pace alone means nothing when your tempo is pedestrian in the first 2/3 of the pitch. We can get Dembele, Griezmann and Mbappe as our attacking trident and we'll get little improvement, if we don't also improve our transition game when we have possession. These, and the ones we currently have, are players who need room to run with the ball or run in behind and currently our biggest weakness is that we don't give them enough opportunities to make things happen while running with the ball. But this isn't about the wingers, it's about how we treat the ball in the build up phase of our game. Some people on here believed it was a tactical approach that aimed to take the best out of Zlatan but hindered our other attacking options but, as it proved, this is not the case.

As for the infamous width, the answer is (someone like) Valencia as a winger because he can stretch play on the right wing? Of course, it's not. What we so desperately need is players who are good with the ball and can create in tight spaces. These we lack and these type of players are the ones who make the difference at the highest level. Players with the ability to dribble, create, initiate and finish attacking moves. Mkhitaryan can play that role but he really needs to step up his game a gear or two. Martial could also do it but, whenever he is on the ball on the left, he seems completely unaware of his surroundings and he just tries to dribble everyone in front of him. Rashford, Lingard and Mata can offer very little in tight spaces and they need more room to operate, the first two because they lack the technical skills (Rashford has showed improvement lately though) and Mata because he can't push forward and be aggressive on the ball with opponents closing him down/marking him closely.

With a forward like Ibrahimovic, whose play making abilities are top notch, we can afford to have Rashford on the wings attempting runs in behind and looking to finish off chances others create for him. Even Griezmann, who has always thrived in systems with two forwards, will definitely benefit from an inverted forward playing closer to him.

But, whoever the main man upfront is next season, we need another player who can treat the ball neatly in under pressure and has good creative skills. Bernardo Silva is young, Portuguese and looks ready to take the next step in his career after the season he had with Monaco. Maybe Jose will look into him. But the winger alone won't solve all issues. Much will also depend on how Mourinho envisions the midfield and if he'll go into next season with Pogba-Herrera in front of the back four or not.

 

[SirScholes]

I trust Martial and Mkhi for next season myself. It'd be nice if we could a Dembele but unlikely, Martial and Mkhi in their old form would be enough.

With no decent cover?

 

[Sammyjunn]

With no decent cover?

Mata, Rashford and maybe Lingard. Granted they'll perform better than this season, longer with Mou, more accustomed etc.

 

[Robbie Boy]

When Lingard has played 79 games over the course of the past two seasons, then yeah, we definitely need a winger and preferably someone in the Mane / Mahrez mould.

 

[AP88]

Carrasco or Bale are two of the best in Europe in terms of being able to do damage on either wing, but both will be difficult to get hold of, especially if the Griezmann signing goes ahead.

Perisic is a genuinely viable target; he's big, fast and useful with both feet. With Mourinho favouring an offensive rightback and defensive leftback, he'd fit in nicely on the left with less defensive obligation.

 

[JoaquinJoaquin]

Carrasco or Bale are two of the best in Europe in terms of being able to do damage on either wing, but both will be difficult to get hold of, especially if the Griezmann signing goes ahead.

Perisic is a genuinely viable target; he's big, fast and useful with both feet. With Mourinho favouring an offensive rightback and defensive leftback, he'd fit in nicely on the left with less defensive obligation.

Perisic might be a good choice. Wouldn't cost as much as Costa or Carrasco either you would imagine.

Carrasco won't leave unless Griezmann stays, and even then it may be Oblak as the 'star' who is sold by Atletico, so both may stay. Like I said in the Carrasco thread the other night though, Fans on here would turn on him fast IMO when you factor in the abuse that Nani used to get here. Both are pretty inconsistent players who can look fantastic on any given day yet fade into the background the next.

 

[MrSingh2002]

Lingard should have been the one player sacrificed to make way for a new right winger however we've rewarded him with a new long term contract. Ball dropped.

 

[ivaldo]

I wouldn't mind seeing another player added, but we're not nearly as weak in that department as being made out.

Also depends how we set up. Traditional wide men may not fit well. If we have a fluid front three then the need for someone to hug the touchline won't be necessary. Once we get another one or two central midfielders in who can play the DM role for us then Pogba and Herrera can pick up the ball further forward and give options for the wide players. As soon as our front men have a little more support life will be made a lot easier for them.

 

[sugar_kane]

How many top out and out wingers are there, especially who are available?

Most of the elite teams arguably don't even play with traditional wingers, Bayern I guess?

 

[Red_Beans]

If we allow our fullbacks to attack and overlap more frequently our wingers will look better. I think our squad is sorely missing quality FB's

 

[Infra-red]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Martial go in the summer. Lingard will never be good enough and Depay failed to make any impact. It's not great.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

More like need improving.

Our wingers are overall okay enough, but very inconsistent. Good mixture of age/average age. Quality too. But really needs to improve by a lot. Mata pass, doing what he does best consistently. Lingard's just okay, need to score more. Mkhi have to be more consistent or at least remedy his frustrating inconsistencies with more winning goals or play. Martial seriously needs big improving, be more adventurous and add more attacking elements to his current limited game. Rashford is fine and Pereira have to be given chances next season (rewards for good loan spell).
Mkhitaryan 28
Mata 29
Lingard 24
Martial 21
-Rashford 19
?Andreas Pereira 21

But yes, there's no harm in needing strengthening. So, if there's good wingers available "for a limited time offer", then why not. It'll bring greater competitions to our squad, and would test the current wingers whether they deserve a place or not here in Manchester United.

Wingers are not the urgent position to be rectified though. Focus on strikers and defence first.

 

[red4ever 79]

I dont believe our wingers are true wingers, more like number 10's who play on the wing. This certainly applies for Miki and Mata, as for Lingard I dont personally rate him, and Martial is inconsistent.

Would love to see us sign traditional wingers who hug the touchline and can beat a man on the OUTSIDE. Sane would have been brilliant for us

 

[Cheekiey]

2 words.

Douglas Costa.

 

[VeevaVee]

Definitely. 2/3 of our attack have been lame for large parts of our season. Mhki has moments of brilliance so will hopefully be more consistent, but who knows if that's even going to be his position? Martial doesn't add anything as things stand. Lingard was best described by someone yesterday as a nothing player most of the time.

 

[SirScholes]

Mata, Rashford and maybe Lingard. Granted they'll perform better than this season, longer with Mou, more accustomed etc.

Lingard is just not good enough rashford is a striker and mata a slow no10, need to learn from our mistakes not repeat them

 

[jackofalltrades]

Yes 100%, I've been banging this drum on here since about 2014, or since it became clear Valencia was never going to be an attacking danger again. We've lost any kind of threat from the wing and it's needed sorting for years.

Exactly.

We need two wingers who can put in accurate crosses and not substitutes for them such as Rashford (striker) or Mata although they can do a good job out there. Remember the goal Young scored when we pasted Arsenal - he cut in and fired a curling shot into the top corner. Absolute corker. Pace, crosses and a danger when cutting in - that's what we need.

 

[Sammyjunn]

Lingard is just not good enough rashford is a striker and mata a slow no10, need to learn from our mistakes not repeat them

I think Lingard is quite decent for a squad player, 4th choice from the wing, Rashford wont be our 1st choice striker next year for certain, mostly will play wing and 2nd striker and Mata is a 10 and slow but his best games have still come from the right.

 

[Trigg]

I'm happy with Mkhitaryan wide right and Martial wide left. Seems Jose isn't though so maybe new wingers will be needed.

Not sure how many decent wingers are out there who we can get mind.

 

[Zlatattack]

I have long thought we lack proper wingers/wide attackers. None of our current crop of players cut it in that role.

Valencia - Is now a fullback, even in his hay day he was a provider not a goalscorer
Young - again, age has got to him, besides he never lived up to his Villa form here.
Mata - is a 10, he's a smart man and has adapted at playing out wide, but it's not his natural game.
Lingard - is average at best.
Rashford - He's making do, it's not his natural game, though personally i'd like to see him proficient in that role. I want our attackers to be interchangable.
Martial - He's probably the most natural player we have in the role, he's had a poor season for various reasons, but we can continue with him here. I expect like Rashford he wants the central attacking role, but as with Rashford i would want him to be proficient out wide too, making him interchangable.
Miki - Another one who's naturally central but is at least procifient playing out wide on the right. Looks a little lost on the left in my opinion. He should be considered a backup option outwide long term, not a permanent solution.

This may not happen over 1 transfer window but i'd like to see us bring in at least two natural wingers/wide attackers. They need to be better than what we have, it's then upto the likes of Martial and Rashford to prove they deserve their spot, rather than playing because that's the best we can muster.

 

[mitchmouse]

strengthening? we haven't got any bloody wingers - that's part of the problem

 

[johanovic]

We need both a right and left winger of highest standard. Mata is best behind a striker, Miki is best behind a striker, Martial is a striker, Rashford is a striker. We need 2 guy´s that have pace, crossing ability and can take players on and open up play that way. We also need Shaw or a new attacking left back. Against packed defences the only way to open them up is to be able to stretch play, open up the wings and get in behind and put the ball into the box. We spend most of the time moving the ball sideways and backwards against teams that sit back as we do not have that possibility in our play now. Hence all the home draws.

 

[Infra-red]

There's a host of Brazilians with good dribbling & crossing ability: Douglas Costa, Lucas Moura, Felipe Anderson, Willian.

Lemar has also developed the wing play elements of his game.

 

[SirScholes]

I think Lingard is quite decent for a squad player, 4th choice from the wing, Rashford wont be our 1st choice striker next year for certain, mostly will play wing and 2nd striker and Mata is a 10 and slow but his best games have still come from the right.

But rather than playing a striker and a no10 on positions that clearly don't suit them why not actually get players in that operate well outwide

 

[Yagami]

Definitely. We need two wingers, IMO. An already top/good player (D.Costa/C.Vela/Vitolo/Isco/Alexis/B.Silva) and a young prospect like Adama Traoré. The way José sets us up in tougher games causes us to have trouble getting out of our half; Traoré could help this tactic from José be a million times more effective with his insane ball retention in tight areas and incredible direct rampages. He also puts in a hell of a shift defensively, too.

 

[itso 7]

When you think about it and how both sugnings turned out its hard to believe how we dropped the ball with Mane and instead opted for Mkhitaryan. Mane is the type of winger we had been missing since Nani/Di Maria failed to work out and LVG stupidly put all the eggs in the Memphis basket. Be that as it may, we now need that type of player with the explosiveness and goal scoring ability to open up tight games. Hopefully Mkhi will have a better second season and be that player for us.

 

[GM K]

Seems our first choice wingers are Mhkitaryan and Lingard now. But whether it be Martial and Mata or the former two, or an out of position Rashford there, or a past it Rooney, we seem to have been much weaker there this season than we looked to be on paper at the beginning of the season. None of them have really got top class goals and assists from those positions, and some have put in very poor numbers. All have underwhelmed.

So do we need to make this a position to strengthen in? Which side? Or a versatile player able to play both? Or will they come good next season? Who would you sell?

NB: Don't care whether you want to call them wingers or inside forwards or wide attackers. The people named above are who I am referring to.

You've raised a very worrying and tricky issue to deal with issue.

We have mega problems on our wings and like someone said, this is a big reason why we have failed this season in the league title race.

Mikhi has been very underwhelming. Martial has disappointed most shockingly. I actually think Rashford did well playing wide and I still think he can be a good wide attacker who drifts in regularly to the middle to strike. Rashford is not my ideal number nine.

A very related problem is the quality of our full backs. Modern football requires full backs who can attack and play as effective wingers from time to time. This is why Marcello is my favourite Madrid player.

Valencia does a very good job in making us potent from the right. Imagine if we had a good right winger to combine with him. Unfortunately, our left full back position is problematic.

I wish we can have the old Martial back. But I fear we won't. I think he will leave or may just never be as good as he was last season. I hope I am wrong. Martial and Mikhi's situations makes things tricky for Jose.

I suggest we buy a right winger, get a new striker, rotate Rashford on the left and as a back up striker when the occasion demands, and leverage on the versatility of Martial or Mikhi (this is crazy but unless I can be sure we'll get the qualities they have exhibited before, I want one of them replaced with a more effective and consistent top class player. Yeah, crazy idea) on the wings and in the middle. In addition, we need a good left back who can be an attacking threat from the wing.

 

[OohAahMartial]

Good post @GM K agree with all you say. Poses a challenging dilemma for Jose for sure. Stick or twist.

 

[TheRedHearted]

Carrasco or Bale are two of the best in Europe in terms of being able to do damage on either wing, but both will be difficult to get hold of, especially if the Griezmann signing goes ahead.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.manc...hester-united-transfer-news-bale-13028725.amp

According to the oh so long grape vine bale is willing. Only if these chirpings were true. Buy costa and bale and the team is solid if you ask me. Play three at the back and a midfield with those two, Pogba, mikhi and Herrera and we are golden. The two golden boys Martial and Rashford up top and we don't need Greizman

 

[Needham]

The position of winger has been made redundant by the cleft and weave of 3-5-2s and 3-2-3-2s etc. Our full backs are our wingers and visa versa. QED

 

[prtk0811]

Bruma is being linked with Southampton and Leicester, looks good this year:
Looks like Adama Traore with the end product. He might still be raw, but would be a decent squad option.

Looks really good , like sadio mane. Super imprressed. High work rate, skill , good ball control , good delivery , goal scoring vision.

Where is our scouting network? We need a player like him. Worth getting this player. Letting him go would be another disaster like mane.

 

[prtk0811]

Inverted wingers are what you will see with most top teams in the modern game. CR7, Bale, Messi, Neymar, Di Maria, Sanchez etc all play on the opposite side of their foot as inverted wingers and cut inside. The main idea is that the attacker is on his dominant foot vs the defender's weaker foot. The fuil backs are meant to provide the width.

Its not a mordern Idea, We have used it 10 years back.

 

[prtk0811]

I'd go for Douglas Costa of the top of my head. He's available, would be very affordable and a proper Mourinho type winger with bags of pace, strength and skill and he can play on both sides. Not having the best season under Ancelotti but neither are most of the Bayern squad.

Bruma is better.

 

[cheeky_backheel]

Its not a mordern Idea, We have used it 10 years back.

'Modern game' not recent game

 

[Cheekiey]

strengthening? we haven't got any bloody wingers - that's part of the problem

This. I'd play to our strengths, we don't have any great winger or any proper ones at all bar Youngy who finds himself as a LB most of the time. Utilise a formation without wingers, since we don't actually have any.

Don't be deceived by Martial and Lingard, Martial is a forward playing as a winger and doing a job, Lingard is a workhorse but doesn't have the quality required.

Personally I'd use 4312 formation, Rashford plays better in a 2, Pogba plays better in a 3, we have quite a few no. 10s in Mata, Mkhitaryan, Rooney. If we sign a LB that bombs forward like Valencia does, someone like Mendy and a CDM like Fabinho or Danilo Pereira to allow Pogba to do his thing then I can see this formation working. Especially if Griezmann comes in, him and Rashford could be devastating.

Main point is we don't need wingers.

 

[itso 7]

You've raised a very worrying and tricky issue to deal with issue.

We have mega problems on our wings and like someone said, this is a big reason why we have failed this season in the league title race.

Mikhi has been very underwhelming. Martial has disappointed most shockingly. I actually think Rashford did well playing wide and I still think he can be a good wide attacker who drifts in regularly to the middle to strike. Rashford is not my ideal number nine.

A very related problem is the quality of our full backs. Modern football requires full backs who can attack and play as effective wingers from time to time. This is why Marcello is my favourite Madrid player.

Valencia does a very good job in making us potent from the right. Imagine if we had a good right winger to combine with him. Unfortunately, our left full back position is problematic.

I wish we can have the old Martial back. But I fear we won't. I think he will leave or may just never be as good as he was last season. I hope I am wrong. Martial and Mikhi's situations makes things tricky for Jose.

I suggest we buy a right winger, get a new striker, rotate Rashford on the left and as a back up striker when the occasion demands, and leverage on the versatility of Martial or Mikhi (this is crazy but unless I can be sure we'll get the qualities they have exhibited before, I want one of them replaced with a more effective and consistent top class player. Yeah, crazy idea) on the wings and in the middle. In addition, we need a good left back who can be an attacking threat from the wing.

I think we should keep both Martial and Miki because along with Lingard and Rashford they are versatile. Miki in form would seal the right side whilst Martial can be both starter or back up on the left and up top. What is clear is that we need another player or two to provide unpredictability, pace and goals plus we need to significantly improve our fullback options - Valencia looks alright but my God the left back options are shocking and the Shaw project looks dead in the water.